As I've already stated, I'm not interested in the iMac's display.
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You can still drive two displays; one via HDMI (with DVI adapter) and one via thunderbolt (with DVI adapter).
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Apple Introduces New Mac Mini With Faster Processors and Quad-Core Option
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To the contrary, many people are making valid points germane to the thread.
As these are intended updates, there's no obvious good reason to not clearly improve the HD 6630M Mini in all departments, even if the HD 4000 makes sense in the base model.
FWIW, I have the HD 6630 model & it's no slouch for anything but fairly modern, graphically-intensive games.
As I say elsewhere, IMO, for the price being asked, I'm not surprised that many people might have expected similar updates generally, but at least to have a definite improvement on the previous, higher-end Mini's HD 6630M discrete card.
Hoping for another, slightly better discrete card in the higher-end Mini, whilst also doubling the previous VRAM to 512, isn't really expecting a lot or something unreasonable here.
I imagine most of those complaining now might have been pacified.
As it is, only Apple in the entire computer hardware industry would effectively give you a slight graphical downgrade in the higher-end Mini.
FWIW, I like using Macs. They're excellent computers in many respects, but find it disappointing that greed seems to have no bounds with this company.
Looking for advice.
I am planning to get a new mini (not sure if I'll go for the dual or quad core yet, given that there's no graphics incentive for going for the more expensive model anymore), upgrade the RAM myself to 8GB (easy), and the HDD to an SDD (never done it before, but I'm game).
Will I see any major performance benefit to having a second 1TB HDD inside the mini over using an external TB or USB3 drive?
I am planning to get a new mini (not sure if I'll go for the dual or quad core yet, given that there's no graphics incentive for going for the more expensive model anymore), upgrade the RAM myself to 8GB (easy), and the HDD to an SDD (never done it before, but I'm game).
Will I see any major performance benefit to having a second 1TB HDD inside the mini over using an external TB or USB3 drive?
It is pretty bad for most users!
Admittedly though the IVy Bridge GPU ought to come close to the performance of that half useless chip. People are knocking the Intel GPU pretty bad in this thread, but HD4000 isn't half bad for 2D, some might see it as competitive. Unfortunately Intel sucks hard when it comes to 3D even on Ivy Bridge.
Even the bump to the "server" model is now pretty damn pathetic.
Disappointed in one way as the Mini really won't cut it as a primary machine in this configuration. I can see myself buying it for other uses, but honestly the new iPad is far more appealing.
I hate to say this but I might have to start looking harder at Linux again. If Apple is going to munge up hardware this bad it might be worth suffering through Linux's rough spots.
Admittedly though the IVy Bridge GPU ought to come close to the performance of that half useless chip. People are knocking the Intel GPU pretty bad in this thread, but HD4000 isn't half bad for 2D, some might see it as competitive. Unfortunately Intel sucks hard when it comes to 3D even on Ivy Bridge.
Write a nasty letter to Apple? Really they need to feel a little heat as Mini just doesn't cut the mustard for a lot of users. They did exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for, which is wishing up about the Mini and giving us a real differential between the entry model and the "Power User" model.
Even the bump to the "server" model is now pretty damn pathetic.
Disappointed in one way as the Mini really won't cut it as a primary machine in this configuration. I can see myself buying it for other uses, but honestly the new iPad is far more appealing.
I hate to say this but I might have to start looking harder at Linux again. If Apple is going to munge up hardware this bad it might be worth suffering through Linux's rough spots.
The new Mini isn't a "bad" machine but it is a step backwards!
I'm sure plenty of people will find a range of valid uses for the Mini, I even have a few in mind. The problem is I can't see buying it as my primary desktop computer due to the lack of good 3D support. If you run design automation software or other three D apps that need that 3D support, even occasionally, you are screwed with respect to the Mini. The big advantage of the old Mini with the AMD GPU was that it was viable for the occasional user of such apps. Now we are talking a huge regression.
It makes you wonder if Apple is just too damn lazy to design a Mini with a slightly bigger power supply to handle a GPU with a respectable amount of RAM. This is really frustrating to say the lest. It makes you wonder if Apple has had some sort of tantrum with NVidia and AMD.
I'm sure plenty of people will find a range of valid uses for the Mini, I even have a few in mind. The problem is I can't see buying it as my primary desktop computer due to the lack of good 3D support. If you run design automation software or other three D apps that need that 3D support, even occasionally, you are screwed with respect to the Mini. The big advantage of the old Mini with the AMD GPU was that it was viable for the occasional user of such apps. Now we are talking a huge regression.
It makes you wonder if Apple is just too damn lazy to design a Mini with a slightly bigger power supply to handle a GPU with a respectable amount of RAM. This is really frustrating to say the lest. It makes you wonder if Apple has had some sort of tantrum with NVidia and AMD.
Yep a lot of good in the new Mini and one big snag.
The HD4000 is very good as long as you don't want 3D support. Even if you are an occasional user of 3D software the performance hit can be very significant.
The hybrid drive isn't a big deal as you can get similar performance advantages the DIY route. Frankly due to the cost of SSDs these days you are likely to do much better DIY. What I mean here is that 128GB drives can be found for under $100 these days, $250 can get you a fairly decent SSD. It makes me wonder if Apple is using stock parts here or if special hardware is involved. Frankly I wouldn't even consider buying the Hybrid solution until we find out if this feature is software or hardware based and if software does that software support customer supplied drives.
The HD4000 is very good as long as you don't want 3D support. Even if you are an occasional user of 3D software the performance hit can be very significant.
The hybrid drive isn't a big deal as you can get similar performance advantages the DIY route. Frankly due to the cost of SSDs these days you are likely to do much better DIY. What I mean here is that 128GB drives can be found for under $100 these days, $250 can get you a fairly decent SSD. It makes me wonder if Apple is using stock parts here or if special hardware is involved. Frankly I wouldn't even consider buying the Hybrid solution until we find out if this feature is software or hardware based and if software does that software support customer supplied drives.
A 5400RPM drive with 2.5" discs would still read data faster than a 3.5" at 5400RPM. The amount of data per platter also matters. More data = denser = faster. 2.5" is already a decent bit denser than 3.5". It's not all black and white
IMac has never made sense to me, I'm not sure why people even buy it.
Nope! Seriously the reason to go iMac was to get a performance advantage over the Mini, slow drives will suck bad. It is probably Apples way of encouraging people to buy the expensive hybrid upgrade.
Nope! Seriously the reason to go iMac was to get a performance advantage over the Mini, slow drives will suck bad. It is probably Apples way of encouraging people to buy the expensive hybrid upgrade.
It more or less is a downgrade.
There is more to a computer than the processor. Taken as a whole this is a downgraded machine especially at the $700 mark.
There is more to a computer than the processor. Taken as a whole this is a downgraded machine especially at the $700 mark.
If you don't understand what is being discussed then don't post.
As for the taking the ball and going home, if the game is over would you leave the ball? It is a reasonable expression in this context and frankly one Apple needs to hear.
You are full of crap. The vast majority of Mini users are not gamers to begin with. Second do you have even the foggiest idea about how GPUs are used in modern computers? Maybe you do and are just trying to troll the forums. Whatever you just make yourself look clueless.
That statement is complete BS. Intels solution lags significantly and that is against the old GPU in last years model. There are far better GPUs available now.
As for the taking the ball and going home, if the game is over would you leave the ball? It is a reasonable expression in this context and frankly one Apple needs to hear.
Are you that stupid that you don't realize there is uses for GPUs other than gaming. I mean really that is a statement designed to incite hostility otherwise.
You are full of crap. The vast majority of Mini users are not gamers to begin with. Second do you have even the foggiest idea about how GPUs are used in modern computers? Maybe you do and are just trying to troll the forums. Whatever you just make yourself look clueless.
It might be worth it just for the power savings - my main machine is on 24/7. The Mac Pro 1,1 draws I think about 400W at idle. This maximum this mac mini is supposed to draw is only 85W. It probably idles at about 40W at a guess. If you leave your main machine on 24/7 then that would save over 3000 kWh a year - that can amount to a significant amount in current energy prices! Actually, that's about £400 here... makes me consider one even more...
It really depends on what you're doing. You have a true 8 core machine. The Mac Mini will be faster for single threaded applications but your machine will be faster for multithreaded stuff. I think the Mac Mini's graphics is actually better than the HD 2600 but if you've stuck with that all these years then chances are you don't use the graphics much. If your machine is feeling sluggish it will likely be due to the hard drive.
If I were you, I would buy a good SSD drive - e.g. a 512GB Crucial M4 and switch your boot drive to that. It will make it feel much much faster. If you do decide you want to switch to a Mac Mini, you could always put that new hard drive into a Mini, it would fly with one of those.
Since I run my 4 year old mini without a keyboard, mouse or monitor, I'm interested in the i7 version as an upgrade. I want to see the benchmarks first. All I do is run 'tv shows' and 'iVI' or 'Handbrake'. After that, it's just my itunes server for 4 appletv's in 3 houses. Right now it takes about 20 minutes for 22minutes of low end HD and about 47 minutes for 720P. Like to pick the pace up a bit.
sooo disappointing that there is no graphics card i dont need more processor power for music and hd movies i use it with my projector so i am very disappointed and it would have been cool if it was better for gaming as well and yes i would have paid more for that
and it would have been cool if it was better for gaming as well and yes i would have paid more for thatHa. Actually, it's also perfect for businesses. It's our standard machine. We upgraded from Mac Pros earlier this year. My mini has an SSD and an HDD. So in addition to losing the discrete graphics we have also lost the ability to add two different drives, which was nice for backing up your boot drive onto a partition of the HDD. Needless to say, we will hold onto our 2011 models for as long as possible.
I wonder if this graphics is better than my current GMA 950 in the mini I have now
I'm guessing the HD4000 is kind of ha hell a lot better than GMA 950, and even does some hw acceleration on some video formats right?
Miles better than the GMA950
I've read this thread and I must admit this internal graphics issue just comes back time and time again. But for non-tech gurus like myself it's difficult to understand the implications.
We don't question that the iGPU is not equivalent to a high-end discrete card.
So putting memory/HD aside my understanding is:
(1) The mini will not be able to handle highly demanding games, some may pass at a lower quality
(2) Has no issue with video editing/playback in 1080p (eg. iMovie or Final Cut)
(3) Has no issue handling large music libraries (say 250GB)
(4) Has no issue handling large photo libraries (say 200GB) with iPhoto or Aperture
(5) has no issue handling re-coding movies (eg Handbrake etc.)
So apart from the geek bench data can someone give a meaningful idea of an intensive application/use that would be limited by the iGPU ?
We don't question that the iGPU is not equivalent to a high-end discrete card.
So putting memory/HD aside my understanding is:
(1) The mini will not be able to handle highly demanding games, some may pass at a lower quality
(2) Has no issue with video editing/playback in 1080p (eg. iMovie or Final Cut)
(3) Has no issue handling large music libraries (say 250GB)
(4) Has no issue handling large photo libraries (say 200GB) with iPhoto or Aperture
(5) has no issue handling re-coding movies (eg Handbrake etc.)
So apart from the geek bench data can someone give a meaningful idea of an intensive application/use that would be limited by the iGPU ?
this is some of the things mojo audio writes
All Mac Minis have the following I/O ports: HDMI, 4X USB, I/O optical digital audio, I/O analog audio, Firewire, Thunderbolt, SD card, and ethernet.
Several CPU and video processor upgrade options are available at the time of purchase. Please note that RAM and hard drives can be upgraded at any time, but CPUs and video processors can not be upgraded.
We offer the following Mac Mini processor upgrade options:
2.5GHz dual-core Intel i5 main processor with 4GB RAM and AMD Radeon HD 6630M video processor.
2.7GHz dual-core Intel i7 main processor with 4GB RAM and AMD Radeon HD 6630M video processor.
The 2.7GHz option is highly recommended for customers who intend to use audio DSP and/or HD video.
so for this the 2011 2,7 is better than the new mac mini if i understand it correctly
Well, I'm a software developer and I do a lot of things on my PC. I can understand if someone needs more RAM, faster HDD or SSD, better CPU, etc. But HD4000 will render your desktop and UI with same speed and quality as standalone chip will do. Of course 3d games is different thing. But because you use your computer only to play games doesn't mean everybody does!
But now seriously, I really want to know, is there any reason to have more GPU power other than 3d games? Or photoshop is so advanced now that it uses GPU for filters? Maybe 3d modelling tools?
Nice come back! However I hardly play games. There are professionals that do Photoshop, or 3D work like you mentioned. I imagine also rendering HD video, particularly if you are rendering more than 1080 would benefit from a better GPU. The uses for a high powered GPU are just so endless beyond games. Really only limited by your imagination and what you need to do.
I'm sure there are also people in the scientific community that use high powered GPUs.
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Yeah but that HD4000 will destroy an SGI with a highend IMPACT board and outperform a Cray C90.
So you get your visualization workstation/unix and a Cray with HIPPI and SSD option in a small box the size of a couple of CD cases
Hehe, nice!
Yeah but that HD4000 will destroy an SGI with a highend IMPACT board and outperform a Cray C90.
So you get your visualization workstation/unix and a Cray with HIPPI and SSD option in a small box the size of a couple of CD cases
Seems pretty irrelevant to compare a Mac Mini (or any other modern PC) with any computer that launched decades ago.
So does the HD4000
Was waiting on this mini to see if it also had HDMI 1.4a (previous 1.4 only) so it could do 3D, but nothing in the specs about it.
So with the HD4000 and I'm guessing no 1.4a, it's PC build for me now.
Sorry Apple that's 2 new products I've been hanging out for (13" rMBP being the other). But it's back to PC world for those purposes - sigh.
2 & 4. My ex PC laptop had switch able video HD4000 and an Nvidia. The videos and photos were horrendous on the HD4000 (artefacts galore), I could only edit in video/imaging apps switching to the NVidia.
Hence why I bought a 17" i7 QC Mac soon after - with a discrete GPU. Though it had a 5400rpm drive that kept throwing up speed problems with video work. So took out the ODD and added an SSD and made the 5400 for storage only.
So does the HD4000
Was waiting on this mini to see if it also had HDMI 1.4a (previous 1.4 only) so it could do 3D, but nothing in the specs about it.
So with the HD4000 and I'm guessing no 1.4a, it's PC build for me now.
Sorry Apple that's 2 new products I've been hanging out for (13" rMBP being the other). But it's back to PC world for those purposes - sigh.