Apple Offers Developers a Closer Look at the New Mac Pro

[snowmen]

You'll still be able to plug existing TB equipment into the TB2 ports

You misunderstand me... What I want to say is: Who owned only the Mac Pro has ever have the need to deal with TB or TB2?

TB2 -> Fibre Channel is only an example I wrote. Originally I wrote TB2 -> (whatever)... What I'm talking about is not only storage that needs PCIe... It's all the equipment that people invested in in PCIe interface, which those people wants it to run faster than what even TB2 can offer us. Audios... Videos... Storages... Whatever... These company invested in these equipment and stick with outdated Mac Pro because of this! Otherwise, most people/company would already change to iMac/TB.

What I propose is NOT a transition period from TB to TB2... It's the transition period from PCIe to TB2 that matters to most Mac Pro users now!

 

[AidenShaw]

For PCIe slots, there ain't HDD/SSD controllers, that can handle fast speeds. If you haven't noticed, the most used PCIe port for SSDs is x4. (and TB is more stable and faster than Sata III. 4 times.) Top most 4GB/s, but for today, the max of the controllers are 2.5, which goes to the same as TB.

But here's an x16 SSD - which holds 5.12 TB of data, reads at 6.0 GB/s and writes at 4.4 GB/s.

http://www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive-octal/​

With an internally expandable workstation, one would have the option of using devices like this.

(It has an x8 little brother with 1.2 or 2.4 TB, and 3.0 GB/s read.)

 

[scottwaugh]

Thinking since it was shown

Mac Pro user, waiting for the new model to see what Apple came up with. I use 3 internal hard drives, still like the option of an internal DVD (Blu-Ray would be better) - still used occasionally - and upgradeable video card.

And while I love the design (like I did the Cube) - its a Mac Mini Pro, not a replacement for the Mac Pro in anything but name. This will be an option for folks getting the high end iMac, not folks that needed the capabilities of the Mac Pro.

Actually using it realistically (2 external drives etc.) would result in a mishmash of wires running out of the back of the thing etc..

JMHO of course....I love the design but I'm totally bummed, once the Darth Cube rolls out Apple won't have a machine in the former Pro area (internal storage, replaceable video cards etc.), they've formally given it up (which they've been doing over the years anyways), stinks to see it get to this point.

 

[bobenhaus]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ffiliateID=isIkAyUyNbM-YziLpEhq26rGwaYpDfZ0EQ

 

[rezwits]

Mac Pro user, waiting for the new model to see what Apple came up with. I use 3 internal hard drives, still like the option of an internal DVD (Blu-Ray would be better) - still used occasionally - and upgradeable video card.

JMHO of course....I love the design but I'm totally bummed, once the Darth Cube rolls out Apple won't have a machine in the former Pro area (internal storage, replaceable video cards etc.), they've formally given it up (which they've been doing over the years anyways), stinks to see it get to this point.

THat's true Apple has given up on the Storage days, long gone are the XserveRAIDs But it's a tough market. I remember the last real hard drive I bought from Apple was 2 GB external SCSI (something like that). HAH so yeah you're right, they are OUT OF HERE on that tip...

They are probably are so happy too. Think about this, if they go all SSD or even PCIe SSD, no Hard Drives ever again. That would be happiness, besides replacement parts, but in 10 years? DONE with them

Think this:
Done with Floppies
Done with Optical
Done with Drives
now on to PURE RAM / PURE CHIPS everywhere.
That's sweet.

One thing I wanted to finish up and say tho is.

This Mac Pro is classic, in what Classic way?

It's bad ass machine, where you are just like Wow, Look how sweet this is, and I am not just talking about the case, I mean the internals, externals, aesthetics, chips, specs

This may not be what every body is all wanting or looking for.

But in the essence it's A BAD ASS Mac, that crushes Dell and HP and etc, not that that war is still even going on or matters, I think we won that one right?

But it's just funny. It's a sick "We are Apple, we make crazy ass hot machines, Mac" -sure call me a Fan Boy

It's awesome, so yeah it doesn't matter what we 100% want. They are saying "Check this out!"

That's the way the Keynote about the MP went, saying:
And this, and this, then there's this, and this, just kept going on and on, destroying Dell and HP specs haha it was just so funny.

I mean I'll let you in on a little secret, I want a personal forcefield like from the movie Explorers, or a Spaceship like Slave I. Has anybody made that yet? Well too bad for all us, I guess I'll have to settle for a 325 BMW or a Veloster, and be happy.

If you want something that hits you just right at every spec it aint going to happen.

Member when G5 case came out? I was saying oh Man, and then the Quad with 16GB of Ram? I was going nuts saying 16GB? 16GB? "gees that's sooo much you'd never need more than that"

This? This is just a Bad Ass Mac!

 

[chumpy34]

Mac Pro user, waiting for the new model to see what Apple came up with. I use 3 internal hard drives, still like the option of an internal DVD (Blu-Ray would be better) - still used occasionally - and upgradeable video card.

And while I love the design (like I did the Cube) - its a Mac Mini Pro, not a replacement for the Mac Pro in anything but name. This will be an option for folks getting the high end iMac, not folks that needed the capabilities of the Mac Pro.

Actually using it realistically (2 external drives etc.) would result in a mishmash of wires running out of the back of the thing etc..

JMHO of course....I love the design but I'm totally bummed, once the Darth Cube rolls out Apple won't have a machine in the former Pro area (internal storage, replaceable video cards etc.), they've formally given it up (which they've been doing over the years anyways), stinks to see it get to this point.

Maybe I am missing something, but a "mishmash" of cables running out the back. Huh? Why not simply have one thunderbolt cable hooked into a cool little raid tower or simple thunderbolt drives stacked or in an enclosure and daisy-chained? My set-up will be new Mac Pro (not hidden under my desk as it's too cool-looking and now much smaller) with a cable for my monitor, a thunderbolt cable to my drive array (stacked or enclosed), a cable to my speakers and OMG, that's it Sure there are a million of other things you can hook up and some do, but not everyone who works on videos or photography has an elaborate set-up so calling this a mac-mini pro or not for professions doesn't make sense. The speed of this thing is going to be awesome compared to my current Mac Pro, can't wait till these things ship!

 

[extrachrispy]

Totally disagree. A slap in the face would have been the current machine with no innovation and just a spec bump. Do you think this new Mac Pro was designed overnight? Good grief people, Apple took so long because they did their research and spent a sh$#load of money developing what they think is a revolutionary product for the Pro User.

And because none of us on this board can go into our garages and create new computers for the masses, we have to trust that Apple knows what they are doing and for the most part, they always deliver. I am excited at the mere fact they went back to square one and innovated. And I have faith that this will not be priced out of most of our budgets, they know their market and they know what we are used to paying. The new 13" Macbook Air even dropped in price.

This. The last time I spec'd out what it would cost to build a dual-CPU hackintosh to the same specs as my late-2008 Mac Pro, I got an unwelcome surprise.

The folks who have a significant investment in their current setups, and who make their livings using them, make some valid points, I think, regarding the loss of four hot-swap drive bays inside and the loss of the expansion slots (in which they can decide for themselves what to put). Time will tell if the new Pro-plus-TB-expansion-chassis works well enough to allay their concerns (and price is going to be a factor).

I don't deny that I lust for one of these tubes. I also like the ease with which I can change around the stuff in my '08 (within reason--as another commenter observed, at some point an upgrade results in a gut-and-rebuild, at which point, buying a brand-new box might be cost-effective).

 

[subsonix]

But here's an x16 SSD - which holds 5.12 TB of data, reads at 6.0 GB/s and writes at 4.4 GB/s.

http://www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive-octal/​

With an internally expandable workstation, one would have the option of using devices like this.

You are obviously trolling or simply have no idea what you are talking about comparing enterprise SSDs for $100k. It's completely out of place.

http://www.solidstateworks.com/ioDrive-Octal.asp

Perhaps you should also suggest an IBM zEnterprise ec12 mainframe to go with that? It will only set you back a million or so!

 

[coolspot18]

Maybe I am missing something, but a "mishmash" of cables running out the back. Huh? Why not simply have one thunderbolt cable hooked into a cool little raid tower or simple thunderbolt drives stacked or in an enclosure and daisy-chained? My set-up will be new Mac Pro (not hidden under my desk as it's too cool-looking and now much smaller) with a cable for my monitor, a thunderbolt cable to my drive array (stacked or enclosed), a cable to my speakers and OMG, that's it

You forgot the power cables.

If it were all internal, like the current Mac Pro, you the power cables would be hidden.

----------

I've been considering a PC. Never thought I'd say that after 24 years. Really sucks but I've been running windows in bootcamp mode for 3Ds Max and I've learned that it isn't all that bad.

Sad but Windows has surpassed OSX in many respects ... iSCSI support, or even something as simple as the fact Windows has a standard install/uninstall framework. Windows 8 was a mis-step by Microsoft, but Windows 7 is a pretty decent OS.

 

[cmanderson]

You misunderstand me... What I want to say is: Who owned only the Mac Pro has ever have the need to deal with TB or TB2?

I don't misunderstand you. But thanks for your proposal.

----------

What I propose is NOT a transition period from TB to TB2... It's the transition period from PCIe to TB2 that matters to most Mac Pro users now!

When they finally release the new model, what customers need to look at is what does the new model actually do. If it doesn't meet your needs, or their needs, don't buy it. If there are suitable ways to make your needs fit and you need the doubling of integer performance and $8000 (retail) worth of workstation class GPU, then by all means consider it.

But judge it on its merits and not based on what you do with your current Mac Pro. That's my advice, and I know you're not asking for it.

Apple may very well offer a transitional period by continuing to sell the existing Mac Pro (perhaps with an processor spec bump or a new GPU option), but I wouldn't bet a dollar on that possibility.

Customers will determine the success of the unit, and Apple has time between now and then to determine what's best for their interests if they want this to be a resounding success.

 

[rezwits]

You are obviously trolling or simply have no idea what you are talking about comparing enterprise SSDs for $100k. It's completely out of place.

http://www.solidstateworks.com/ioDrive-Octal.asp

Perhaps you should also suggest an IBM zEnterprise ec12 mainframe to go with that? It will only set you back a million or so!

Wow, you nailed that one!

I wanted to get into a deeper conversation about how in the end you would need a spaceship due to the lack of expandability on this planet and why?, because you have a business with 30 or so offices around the globe but would reach a state of flux, between people, servers, and money. But that was a little far out there.

 

[AidenShaw]

You are obviously trolling or simply have no idea what you are talking about comparing enterprise SSDs for $100k. It's completely out of place.

http://www.solidstateworks.com/ioDrive-Octal.asp

Perhaps you should also suggest an IBM zEnterprise ec12 mainframe to go with that? It will only set you back a million or so!

Perhaps the Duo is more in line with your budget. http://www.solidstateworks.com/ioDrive2-Duo.asp

PCIe 2.0 x4/x8/x16 SSDs are available today, and for some applications they can be the cheapest solution. Soon, they'll all be PCIe 3.0.

The point is that many cutting edge peripherals simply cannot be effectively connected to the Itube, because of its slow, narrow, last generation PCIe interface.

----------

Wow, you nailed that one!

I wanted to get into a deeper conversation about how in the end you would need a spaceship due to the lack of expandability on this planet and why?, because you have a business with 30 or so offices around the globe but would reach a state of flux, between people, servers, and money. But that was a little far out there.

Apple Spaceship - opening in 2016.

 

[LeandrodaFL]

...

 

[Yoda Mann]

Minion Pro

Been waiting all day to put this together...

 

[subsonix]

Perhaps the Duo is more in line with your budget. http://www.solidstateworks.com/ioDrive2-Duo.asp

$28,000.- Yeah, don't think so. If the Mac Pro end up costing $3,000 you can get 10 of them for one SSD. Again, it's out of place.

The point is that many cutting edge peripherals simply cannot be effectively connected to the Itube, because of its slow, narrow, last generation PCIe interface.

PCIe SSDs for this market, let's say Revodrive or even the Fusion-io FX all are within the bandwidth that TB2 can handle.

Your post illustrates the fact that so many posters draw up some theoretical problem "way out there" and make it their favorite pet peve eventhough it has zero practical consequenses anywhere. Although your post takes the price in how far you reached.

 

[AidenShaw]

$28,000.- Yeah, don't think so. If the Mac Pro end up costing $3,000 you can get 10 of them for one SSD. Again, it's out of place.

You're not in touch with reality. I have many systems with software licenses that cost 4x to 10x the price of the hardware, and storage/IO options that cost many times the price of the system.

Just this week I set up a pair of systems with two 40 Gbps Ethernet ports per system, a TB PCIe x8 SSD, and dual fibre channel ports. Just as a "playpen" for trying out some ideas.

PCIe SSDs for this market, let's say Revodrive or even the Fusion-io FX all are within the bandwidth that TB2 can handle.

Apple says that the new Apple Pro is "what's next for the pro computer".

Your defense is that it's barely adequate for what is available for $200 from Newegg today?

Boggles the mind....

 

[xcodeaddict]

I can't believe this thread is still not locked... lol.

 

[subsonix]

You're not in touch with reality. I have many systems with software licenses that cost 4x to 10x the price of the hardware, and storage/IO options that cost many times the price of the system.

Just this week I set up a pair of systems with two 40 Gbps Ethernet ports per system, a TB PCIe x8 SSD, and dual fibre channel ports. Just as a "playpen" for trying out some ideas.

I don't give a **** what you have, and I'm not impressed! You are not in touch with reality because you fail to recognize the environments where Mac Pros are used. It's not in large scale enterprise.

And for what it's worth you previous example with the duo gives 2.6 GB/sec sustained throughput, just at the edge of what TB2 can handle. So we are back at the $100,000 option.

 

[sick z33]

The design of the new Pro is def unique.

 

[NT1440]

Technically, I'd argue a plug-and-play cluster that seamlessly acts as a single computer, which is what he's actually suggesting, would be pretty damned revolutionary.

In implementation, yes. In concept, old hat.

 

[LeandrodaFL]

You know, that would be an awesome design for an external watercooler actually.

I also admit 2 things:

-Its better looking that the current 2008 Mac Pro
-Internally, its a dream! Best of everything!

 

[rezwits]

The reality, hmm

The reality is we are buying a PROCESSOR, one, thats what we want. The cylinder holds said processor. (or maybe 1-4 machines)

I will give you a 100% plausibility, that the Preview Mac Pro is not "Enterprise", but Pro, yes it's Pro.

Cause, it's CPU GPU RAM SSD, those are the pieces, with connectivity.

The only thing that a Pro needs is one of each of the pieces at a certain degree or capacity.

Enterprise WANTS, anywhere from around x1000 of each or at minimum around x16 of each of the above pieces. And all enterprise does, is multiply money X parts, and connect the parts. I mean yeah you can get a $100,000 5GB RAM disk, but you need to put it to work, right? Pro means you don't have to put it to work. Pro is you've got money in the bank and you can sit around and work on 1-3 projects all by yourself for 1-2 years, and then publish. Enterprise needs the projects to go to work immediately and start paying people's bills immediately. Now I mean if you can afford $100,000 RAM disk, and put it in a machine and not put it to AGGRESSIVE work, and can sit back and say, I've got it all setup for any video project or whatever project at anytime it's ready when you are. Then all I can say it's MORE POWER to you.

This is the difference. So I think what subsonix is saying is, you're talking ENTERPRISE with your points versus PRO with his.

This is easily "Pro", but the mere fact that it's not stackable, is evidence that it's not "Enterprise", I mean the best this could be is some kind of controller/monitor station or some thing for a server farm...

This is fun

 

[Nameci]

Been waiting all day to put this together...

Man, that would be a nice skin on the nMPCore.

 

[MacOG728893]

Until the Final Cut X abortion happened I was dying for a new Mac Pro. My life has been mac since 99. My house and my car are paid for by using Apple's tools. They weren't broke - they certainly could be upgraded - but there was no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. Plenty of room for improvement (that modular design floating around would've been a total winner - like the RED modular philosophy applied to the Mac Pro).

What I'm looking at now is real terror. I've got to start over in Avid, I've got to go back to a PC environment for the tools I need. Mac/Final Cut are dead in Hollywood. Argue all you want, book mark this page and come back in 2 years and apologize. This is a ******** disaster. This doesn't apply to film students or anyone with a YouTube channel.

Looks like your greatest argument is software. Nothing wrong with Premiere Pro CS6 right now. I guess since it's moving to the cloud now there will be issues, so Avid is your only choice, thus forcing you to migrate to Windows.

No where though does that constitute this new Mac Pro as a bad piece of hardware.

 

[ChrisA]

With an internally expandable workstation, one would have the option of using devices like this.

Why do peole care so much where the store is physically located. Of course you could use the FLASH drive with the new Mac Pro if you buy and multi-bay Thunderbolt disk enclosure.


But really the entire idea of a FLASH drive with a SATA interface is only a transitional thing. What is best, and cheaper, is PCIe FLACK with a TB2 interface that never uses SATA. There is no logical reason at all to make the "flash drive" look like a hard drive. SATA, even at 6GB/Sec is a bottle neck.

So if they put a SATA drive bay in the new Mac, in five years it would look silly because TB2 is so much faster.

And what about backup, by definition it must be external. "Internal Backup" is a contradiction of terms. So you need the NAS no matter what.

Even the concept oflocal storage will go away. We really don't want or files teid to one computer. Almost every file is best off kept on some kind of shared system like a SAN or NAS.

In the past the external storage has been to slow. But now with a large PCIe flash Mac OS X can use it for a "Fusion Drive". wit the remote disk array being a backing store.

What I'm getting at is a "multi-tier" file system that keeps the most used blocks on the fastest storage. That is what Fusion does. It changes the way you think of storage.