Apple Pay Shown to Work Internationally Using U.S.-Based Credit Cards

[kdarling]

No...transaction security is what Apple is selling to the banks. The banks already had us as users and already had access to our purchase info that you cite. (snip)

If Apple was selling transaction security, they'd also get Card Present rates for in-app Apple Pay purchases. But they don't.

The fact is, Apple didn't invent anything to sell. The credit card companies / banks already had tokenization coming, and they have said that PINs are secure. Anyone could and can implement the same methods as Apple Pay.

What those institutions didn't have, was assurance that Apple wouldn't pull a Google, or even throw in with a group like MCX or Softcard. They also needed someone major to use their new schemes.

That's why Apple was able to leverage their huge customer base into a revenue producer for itself. Apple could've instead negotiated a kickback to its Apple Pay users, but they didn't.

 

[mrjr101]

Said about a million times...

It has nothing to do with the NFC terminal. The NFC terminal sends information that it receives to a bank, and the bank accepts that information (or it doesn't). Visa in the USA accepts the information from Apple Pay, Visa in the UK doesn't at the moment. Once Visa UK accepts the information, all the UK NFC terminals will automatically accept Apple Pay. They don't even know that Apple Pay is involved in all of this, they just pass information that they receive to the bank, and the bank tells the NFC information if that information is fine or not.

Your credit card doesn't protect you, it's the credit card company refunding you money if fraud happens. Nobody protects the credit card company. Apple Pay makes it harder to defraud the credit card company. Now you might think that you don't care if the credit card company is defrauded, but in the end, you and all other credit card users are paying for it in fees. Even if you don't see it.

Awesome response and if I may add in the end is the credit card companies that will benefit the most because they will still charge customers those fees as they were in the past and the customers will adopt this new faster more secured form of payment without being charged extra fees. It's a win win for everyone.

 

[576316]

No, it wasn't hacked, it was built with such mediocrity that it enabled the social engineering (which is also hacking, by the way) that caused the problem. Gives a person great confidence when handing over your financial information.

Or given that Apple has been caught thrice willfully breaking the law, maybe Apple won't let your financial information leak, they'll just do something illegal with it themselves.

How is Apple responsible for poor password choices?

 

[ptb42]

A simple view is that Apple is just using technology that's been around for years, but that ignores the huge effect of partnerships, ease of use, and timing.

Actually, the EMV tokenization standard was only published last March. Pay is the first implementation of it.

 

[mm201]

Well..I am trying to setup apple pay with my 6+, however. upon changing the region to US. The Add credit card option is still not showing in passbook. Anyone know why?

Try killing the Settings app from the task switcher.

 

[VulchR]

Very good news for the UK where NFC pay terminals are all over....

Where I live I've seen exactly one... so I guess it depends on where you are.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Why is that? What is the difference between Apple Pay using NFC and credit card using NFC? Why do credit card with NFC works without internet connection but Apple pay need Internet connection? Isn't it the NFC terminal sends customer card info to bank?

Sorry, no was the answer to the first question, not the second.

 

[Phillybizzle]

So my Natwest cards gives me an error saying that the bank's not supported. My Amex says error and try again later. I was sure the Amex would work as it's not linked to any bank.

 

[kerrikins]

So when Google does it it's bad, but when Apple does the exact same thing it's fantastic? I bet you love the fact that Apple dictates what you can and cannot do with an iPhone too.

Did you even read what I was quoting? It ended by saying that Google tracks our purchases and Apple doesn't. That's what I was referring to.

 

[LostMyiPhone]

Do all Canadians look like Ryan Reynolds? Cause that'd be awesome.

 

[Waughy]

NAB isn't for some reason....

Why not? Jerks.
I may have to change banks for my everyday spending if that's the case.

 

[genovelle]

Umm Google wallet had been around since 2011 which is 3 years prior to kit Kat release. Google wallet and other NFC payments systems have been widely implemented in Europe and Asia.

I think apple pay will open the doors for North American market. But for other countries have been using it for quite some time.

So why has it been universally called a failure world wide? Every article I've read over the last 2 years complained about how the Google wallet never took off and hoped Apple was doing a wallet with Passport as was rumored for months at the time. Notice they released Passport without credit card support with iOS 6. Thankfully, Apple chose to get it right instead of rushing to market because competitors found out what they were doing and tried to beat them to market.

 

[reclusive46]

Where I live I've seen exactly one... so I guess it depends on where you are.

I guess you don't go to chains very often? Waitrose, Boots, McDonalds, WH SMITH, Marks and Spencers, Thorntons, Weatherspoons, Some Tescos and Asda, Greggs, Starbucks, Costa, London underground/buses/trams all take contactless (Just to name a few). A lot of small businesses take it now as well if they've had their card machine replaced within the last year or two.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

My random thoughts that no one will care about....

1. US Only rollout. They obviously handpicked banks to include in on the beginning of this - testing and back-end updates. Recall the article about the code words used for it. It is easier to keep things under wraps with a smaller base. Now things can move forward in other countries.

2. Visa and Mastercard are like a franchise - the banks go to them for that nifty thing to slap on your card to entice you to use it places.

3. International travel often amazes me - i've had 3 foreign guests in the last month NOT tell their bank they were leaving the country. THEN wonder why their transactions are declined. Sometimes credit works if debit failed, and then the flip side.

Same thing is happening in a lot of US banks - if you aren't letting them know you are out of STATE, they are declining one of the payment.

As for me... I can't even try it even though i'm on my way to McD for a beverage because blasted iTunes isn't done updating for me to update the phone. I picked the wrong weekend/monday to be out of town!

 

[reclusive46]

3. International travel often amazes me - i've had 3 foreign guests in the last month NOT tell their bank they were leaving the country. THEN wonder why their transactions are declined. Sometimes credit works if debit failed, and then the flip side.

Debit is supposed to only work on US debit cards as non US debit cards (with the exception of some Canadian banks) only run on the Visa/MC/Amex network (whatever logo is on the front). So that would be a good reason it would decline.

Also a lot of European banks block transactions even if you tell them your going to the US as they find magnetic stripe transactions suspicious.

 

[djyoungcity]

this is great news as I am traveling in Canada right now for business and was eager to try this out. There are NFC terminals everywhere.

I was gonna give it a go yesterday before the news broke, but i didnt get a change to update to 8.1 till today.

Im off to pay for dinner with apple pay

 

[mdelvecchio]

Limiting this to US cards first is a terrible move by Apple. I understand that perhaps they need to make arrangements with banks for debit card support, but credit cards like VISA, MC, AMEX should be able to be used in any country.

I have a VISA issued in Canada, last time I checked VISA is an American company.

But sadly the reality is that Apple probably wants to profit from each transaction, hence the need for deals in each country.

if youve ever launched a new product or initiative, youd understand that you cant be everywhere or do everything at once. kinda common sense.

how many carriers did the first iphone support? ONE. how many is it on now? HUNDREDS.

 

[Tech198]

Why not? Jerks.
I may have to change banks for my everyday spending if that's the case.

Sorry, my bad :- http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/536949/mobile_payments_australia_state_banks/

 

[mdelvecchio]

Yes it is, but sadly, and as usual - Apple couldn't give a **** about their users outside the US. (iTunes Radio still not available in the UK!) This may change if they can cash in but I can't help but feel lately that Apple products are less and less competitive outside their home country - we pay the same (actually a lot more) for less functionality.

man do you have that all kinds of wrong. 60% of apple's income is from overseas.

the reason US-owned media cant be played back in many non-US countries has everything to do w/ license contracts -- owned and issued by the media owners, not apple, which is just the retailer.

apple doesnt own all that movie & music content. and ironing out deals w/ ALL the banks in the world takes, you know, time.

 

[Waughy]

Sorry, my bad :- http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/536949/mobile_payments_australia_state_banks/

Sounds promising then. Wouldn't have surprised me if they weren't doing much about it, they were looking into the nfc tags like Commonwealth have but that went quiet and nothing has come of it. Hopefully they don't drop the ball on this one.

I changed my region and tried a couple of my cards. They don't work (as expected) but I wanted to see what the setup process was like, and it's quite simple. Looking forward to getting Apple Pay here and leaving the cards at home.

 

[BruiserB]

If Apple was selling transaction security, they'd also get Card Present rates for in-app Apple Pay purchases. But they don't.

The fact is, Apple didn't invent anything to sell. The credit card companies / banks already had tokenization coming, and they have said that PINs are secure. Anyone could and can implement the same methods as Apple Pay.

What those institutions didn't have, was assurance that Apple wouldn't pull a Google, or even throw in with a group like MCX or Softcard. They also needed someone major to use their new schemes.

That's why Apple was able to leverage their huge customer base into a revenue producer for itself. Apple could've instead negotiated a kickback to its Apple Pay users, but they didn't.

I respectfully disagree.

Apple had invented something by tying this to TouchID. And I believe they have patented their implementation. I'm sure there are similar processes that could be invented to be similarly secure and maybe there will be equally secure processes used by competitors soon. I do believe biometric measures will always be more secure than PINs.

Who's to say Apple and the banks haven't agreed to a demonstration period and if Apple can prove enhanced online security, that card present rates could be on the table? Also who's to say there won't be a loyalty "kickback" coming? I'm happy with a shareholder kickback for now! The things you've argued are not proof of anything Apple has or hasn't done. Time will tell, but I like where things are headed.

 

[magga]

I tried to add a Visa card here in the UK and got a "card not supported" error. I then tried an American Express card and got a "card could not be added, please try again later" error. Perhaps American Express cards in the UK *would* work, but they just aren't letting us add them

 

[Jimrod]

man do you have that all kinds of wrong. 60% of apple's income is from overseas.

the reason US-owned media cant be played back in many non-US countries has everything to do w/ license contracts -- owned and issued by the media owners, not apple, which is just the retailer.

apple doesnt own all that movie & music content. and ironing out deals w/ ALL the banks in the world takes, you know, time.

And I understand that. It doesn't change the fact that with Apple's locked down Eco system which limits functions like NFC to Apple Pay - the rest of the world get a lot less for our money than Americans do. We effectively pay over the odds to subsidise benefits we don't get to see, whatever the reason. At least with Android/Windows devices the playing field is level. It doesn't matter what Apple might be working on - if we don't have it we don't have it, they should have started negotiations far more in advance if they wanted to offer an announced service. It's borderline against the trade descriptions act to advertise features as a selling point that aren't available.

 

[reclusive46]

I tried to add a Visa card here in the UK and got a "card not supported" error. I then tried an American Express card and got a "card could not be added, please try again later" error. Perhaps American Express cards in the UK *would* work, but they just aren't letting us add them

American Express on Applepay in the UK wouldn't be the most reliable thing. About 45% of merchants who take Amex and take contactless don't take Amex contactless. Admittedly this isn't necessarily American Express's fault its more to do with terminal providers not loading the Amex contactless functionality on the terminal.

 

[magga]

Where I live I've seen exactly one... so I guess it depends on where you are.

How do you know you've only seen one? They don't look any different to non-NFC chip and pin terminals. The only distinguishable difference being, that the screen says "touch (or present) or insert card", rather than just "insert card". Most terminals that just say "insert card" will also accept NFC payments, though. For example, my local post office terminals do support NFC, but they often just press the option for standard payment until they see me wanting to use contactless, they then say "oh wait a minute" and then the screen changes to "present or insert card" and contactless then works.

----------

American Express on Applepay in the UK wouldn't be the most reliable thing. About 45% of merchants who take Amex and take contactless don't take Amex contactless. Admittedly this isn't necessarily American Express's fault its more to do with terminal providers not loading the Amex contactless functionality on the terminal.

I just wanted to see if I could add it more than anything, I don't even use the account it's connected to.