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jayducharme

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2006
4,535
5,995
The thick of it
I just finished watching the keynote. This is huge for education. I haven't required textbooks in the classes I teach because I not only haven't found one I like in my field, but they're just too bloody expensive. And all orders have to be placed in advance through our college bookstore; often by the time they process the order, the edition I ordered has gone out of print.

I love being able to create my own textbook easily and distributing it to the students. Now, of course, we just have to get iDevices into their hands....
 

Slurpy2k8

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
383
0
Phil just doesn't have Steve's charisma. Its not as exciting to watch him run the show

Yeah, I felt more than a tinge of sadness watching this, and realizing how much SJ would have loved to present what we saw today. He always had a big interest in education, the impact of technology can have on education, and this is definitely something he'd been thinking of and dreaming up for a very long time. He's touched on the subject many, many times and it was obvious it was something he cared deeply about and couldn't wait to contribute to. And clearly, no-one on that stage had 10% of Steve's charisma. Not many people do.

In any case, Apple is the only company in the world who have all the elements (hardware, software, infrastructure, mindshare, mass-market appeal, ambition, skill, clout, etc) to be able to pull something like this off. They posess all pieces of the puzzle, unlike any other technology company out there. I also can't wrap my mind around those that insist today's announcements 'aren't a big deal', 'doomed to fail', 'should have been a 10 minute thing', etc. I cant disagree more. In the grand scheme of things, this is a much bigger deal than an iPad 3, or any other tech advances. This will be proven 6 months from now, more so a yr from now, and in 5 years people will have trouble imagining a time where iPads weren't a huge part of the education sector. Apple will put it's full force behind this, because it's obvious how passionately they believe in it and want it to succeed- and too many other people would want it to succeed for it to fail. Even now I'm so eager just to read through that 'Life on Earth' ebook, yet would have no temptation to read a regular textbook about the same subject matter. The effect that increased interactivity, enaggement, and 'fun' this will add to real learning cannot be overstated.
 
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Slurpy2k8

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
383
0
apple corp. want educate the students with its version of history, science, religion ect. through these "interactive books". Social Lobotomy.
and one more thing, turn off the lights and close the windows, light is no good for the itoys.

Thanks for the fascinating contribution. Maybe you should start educating yourself so you can compose a coherent troll post that's at least readable in the english language. I skimmed your past posts and seems you can hardly type english. Why not learn proper english before insisting on spamming troll posts using that language? And try to think of something more original than iToy.. especially considering how foolish that sounds after today's event.
 
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jspaladin

macrumors newbie
Aug 4, 2011
14
0
Currently South Korea
FFS. Im selling my PS3 in Korea with the intention of buying a new one when I land in the UK. Now the iPad is coming out... PS3 vs iPad (I know they are difficult to compare) what do you think?
 

J-Squire

macrumors regular
Nov 10, 2003
208
0
Australia
Burger vs iPad

FFS. I was planning on buying a burger for dinner tonight, but now the new iPad is coming out. I know it's a tough comparison, but what do you think: burger or iPad?
 

iMikeT

macrumors 68020
Jul 8, 2006
2,304
1
California
I watched some of the keynote and it was (so far) the usual Apple keynote but Phil was sounding a little nervous to me, like a little hesitation and shakiness in his voice. Might just been me though...
 

Manoo

macrumors newbie
Jan 19, 2012
1
0
Was that an Ipad 2 or 3 in that keynote?

I've only watched a little of that keynote but that iPad looked a little thicker than the iPad 2 and it was a lot faster than the iPad 1...
 

billm

macrumors newbie
I think the part that everyone has missed so far in the whole presentation is the amount of money the states will save and the ecological bit of this announcement.

First, Texas was the first ones to go to the all digital idea, one that saves the state $2 Billion USD per year. Imagine a state like California with its 55 million people and how much they could save (10-15 billion USD a year).

Not to mention the amount of trees which would be saved. There would no longer be a need to cut down millions of trees just to create a book which in 2 years or less would be thrown away. Now books will be online, re-downloadable, and updateable without having to print a second or third edition.

Everyone is complaining about the glare or other little things but look at the bigger picture. This will make everyone get the same materials (not always a good thing but better than the have-havenots we have now). It would also allow teachers to create their own materials which they could use to save even more money. This leaves more money in the system to buy facilities, equipment and other necessity items.
 

haruhiko

macrumors 604
Sep 29, 2009
6,529
5,875
The textbook project of Apple is truly great. But Phil's presentation was very boring.

Steve is just a wonderful presenter. Even the brightest people in the current Apple Inc. have less than half of his charisma.
 

MisterK

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2006
580
468
Ottawa, Canada
Prediction

I foresee Apple coming out with the iPad 3 at an equal or slightly lower price and keeping the iPad 2 around at a substantially lower price. The didn't announce this at this education event because this price would be for everyone and doesn't work until iPad 3 comes out. Apple has enough of a margin and has expressed enough interest in owning this market (and Tim Cook has stated that he believes that the tablet market could end up bigger than the PC market) that I can see them really going for it. They are so far ahead already, but this would drop the hammer on their competitors.

This textbook thing is great. It's just the start, so of course there are things that will get better, but I don't see textbooks going back from this point.

I love that they kept a more text heavy version when the iPad is in portrait mode. I find that Apple usually has a couple views; one of them demos extremely well and at least one other is more useful. Half the job is getting people to buy stuff. Maybe we all read iBooks in full screen view, but Apple includes the book skeumorphic as default... Why? Because now books, web, magazines, newspapers are four bullet points instead of looking like 1 generic "text and pictures" view. They have column view in Finder which is great, but they also have CoverFlow which demos much better in larger pictures.

Malcolm Gladwell once said that Pepsi was engineered to win the Pepsi challenge; that most people prefer Coke in quantity, but they love that first sip of Pepsi. Apple always plays both sides. The skeumorphic, Coverflow, large pictures, giant album art wins the Pepsi challenge. Once they've got you they have portrait mode in iPad textbooks, column view in Finder, and list view in iTunes.
 

tucupeis

macrumors member
Nov 16, 2010
71
174
missing links in the chain

For it to really succeed on pre-college as they said something is missing:
1.- they need to offer an unbreakable device (an iPad on any kid hands day to day won't last long)
2.- it needs something that would dissuade thief's getting their hands on the device......(kids personal security is at risk if everybody knows they carry a 500$ device with them every day)
3.- special "kids applecare/insurance" program where the device is replaced in 24h no questions asked and a new device is provided if its lost or stolen
4.- a VERY STRONG parental control on the device... i don't think its a good idea to have kids textbooks with games, chat rooms, browser etc one click away from their chemistry book...

and i think an automatic comprehension self testing software would be a nice improvement...perhaps unlocking game/chat apps for given time if the kid proved to have learned the required lesson....

for college its a nice idea as long as the very expensive specialized textbooks are available and offered with some savings over their paper counterparts
 

BornAgainMac

macrumors 604
Feb 4, 2004
7,283
5,268
Florida Resident
2.- it needs something that would dissuade thief's getting their hands on the device......(kids personal security is at risk if everybody knows they carry a 500$ device with them every day)

That feature to find your iPad / iPhone works really good. I personally know several people that got their stuff back.
 

tucupeis

macrumors member
Nov 16, 2010
71
174
That feature to find your iPad / iPhone works really good. I personally know several people that got their stuff back.

yes i agree find my iPad is good step in the right way ... but far from being a real rest assured measure.....

will it be found if location services is turned off? no
will it be found if its restored as new in iTunes? no
will it be found if its off? no
will it be found if its exported to another country where police doesn't care much? no

a 500$ price tag on kids security is serious issue....ive never heard of a kid being beaten (or worse) to stole their math textbook

somebody has to provide absolute guarantees that the black market for an stolen textbook iPad is zero which is hard to believe it will ever happen as long as the textbook app runs on the same hardware device as an state-of-the-art very appealing to everybody expensive device
 

flipperfeet

macrumors regular
Aug 19, 2003
218
33
Santa Cruz, CA
they make deals with the publishers thats enough.

You want to be afraid of organizations shaping history, science and religion? You need to dig deeper into how text books get into our schools. This sort of development might actually get us out of the current situation where we have the opinions of a half-dozen red-neck religious bigots in Texas deciding what gets taught in hundreds of schools in dozens of States. This changes the economics for publishers and makes it possible for Boards of Education at the state and perhaps the district level to develop better text books. Apple does not sit on education boards, or even publish text books. They have no say in what our schools teach. Your paranoia is misdirected. (BTW I do not mean to imply everyone in Texas is a red neck or thinks that "intelligent design" passes for hard science, just the folks on the text book committee.)
 
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flipperfeet

macrumors regular
Aug 19, 2003
218
33
Santa Cruz, CA
I think the part that everyone has missed so far in the whole presentation is the amount of money the states will save and the ecological bit of this announcement.

First, Texas was the first ones to go to the all digital idea, one that saves the state $2 Billion USD per year. Imagine a state like California with its 55 million people and how much they could save (10-15 billion USD a year).

Not to mention the amount of trees which would be saved. There would no longer be a need to cut down millions of trees just to create a book which in 2 years or less would be thrown away. Now books will be online, re-downloadable, and updateable without having to print a second or third edition.

Everyone is complaining about the glare or other little things but look at the bigger picture. This will make everyone get the same materials (not always a good thing but better than the have-havenots we have now). It would also allow teachers to create their own materials which they could use to save even more money. This leaves more money in the system to buy facilities, equipment and other necessity items.

One point of fact, public school districts don't replace books every two years it is less frequent, in some instances it might be eight or even ten years.
 

flipperfeet

macrumors regular
Aug 19, 2003
218
33
Santa Cruz, CA
somebody has to provide absolute guarantees that the black market for an stolen textbook iPad is zero which is hard to believe it will ever happen as long as the textbook app runs on the same hardware device as an state-of-the-art very appealing to everybody expensive device

This is a standard that even printed text books do not attain. Why must e-books attain it?
 

arogge

macrumors 65816
Feb 15, 2002
1,065
33
Tatooine
This is finally something to end the fleecing of students at the college bookstore, where one textbook could cost $200. Then the students buy it in droves, and nine months later it's replaced by a new version and the resale value drops to near worthless. What's really nice is when the instructor makes the effort to transfer the information from his own choice of reference book to a format that's summarized and available to students, and lets the students choose whichever books they want. No more 30 pound bookbags, and trips to the locker to switch textbooks after lunch! No more going back to your old school ten years later and finding that your name is still listed in the front of some textbooks that are still in use today. This textbook is assigned to... yikes!
 

CFreymarc

Suspended
Sep 4, 2009
3,969
1,149
What nonsense. You have to carry a few books around at Uni, so what? Did this really need 'fixing'? I didn't pass all the time ago through moaning about a heavy bag, students just get on with it. And most of the time you're in a library anyway, tucked away with your own stash of books. I can have as many books as I want open, and just used some PostIt's to keep important pages. You own a book;

  1. It doesn't live off a battery.
  2. You drop it, it doesn't smash.
  3. You buy the books you need without a base cost just to 'read' them.
  4. Re-sell value.
  5. Using 'real' books would develop better cognitive skills than learning how to use an iPad.

Call it sentimental value, but I can't see myself warming to a virtual 'textbook' in my iBook shelf, which is basically a piece of a software anyway. Many of the texts I bought for University are beautiful things, and I pride having them sit on my shelf, ready to flick through. They may not be 'interactive', but isn't that what an imagination is for?

I'll bite on the troll bait. It has been over a decade since I regularly been on a campus. Last year I attended one of those rich alumni, dropping money, slap my name on part of a campus building ceremonies and receptions with the deans and alumni affair types hitting us up for more cash. Told them I was in town to take care of other business and the alumni office handed me a complementary campus pass so I could do some crawling around. The changes I saw were astounding.

First, carrying textbooks in backpacks or duffle bags were non-existant. Almost every student was working from a laptop. A lecture hall was no longer a pen and paper notebook site but full of the back of laptop screens facing the lecturer. With permission of the lecturer, I observed the classes. Rarely was any student with their total attention on the talk.

Almost all were typing in notes in one window, some were just recording the lecture to their laptop's hard disk and WiFi was everywhere. Many students I talked to didn't have have printed and bound textbooks for their class, they had a campus web site to address or reading the "textbook" via PDFs. Also, Facebook and other social network sites were used a lot for collaborative efforts. In some cases, projects were worked on remotely via other campuses with cross-project agreements.

Back in our days the "computer guy" was an isolated nerd / beatnik that kept in computing laboratories or in their dorm working odd hours not getting drunk nor laid. Today, it is pervasive and the one without a computer and smartphone as a social tool is the outcast. Had a good time at the alumni club coming to my conclusions that a part of what I built professionally after college has gone full circle and is in the hands of the next generation.

Thus, my take is that iPads are not replacing print textbooks per say but replacing laptops. First, with a tablet computer that wall of laptop backs facing the lecturer starts to disappear. With this obstruction gone, students are back to the old look down at your notes and back to the chalkboard pace but now the "notebook" is more fluid. Also, a tablet computer is lighter than a laptop and less distracting since an entire PC desktop is not in front of you. It is a more social portable computer.

Finally, this new publishing tool is another kick in the teeth to Adobe. They are giving away a digital publishing tool that Adobe makes bread and butter on. With wireless integration, more and more is going on. Passing notes in class is all more slicker.

So there :p
 
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