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rrappel

macrumors newbie
Aug 3, 2010
5
4
As a long-time (and term) investor, I'm pretty happy. The dividend increase is nice, and helps weather the current patch, while the buyback should drive up share value and IMO is the best use of the stockpile of cash.

On the stuff that matters, Tim Cook said pretty much all the right things: number one focus is not stock price, but building great products. The products are everything, so don't get distracted from that. I interpreted his "new products in fall and 2014" not to mean nothing will get updated, but that's when we'd start to see entirely new product lines. Take the time to get it right; I'm sure he learned from Maps, although I think there were outside pressures there IIRC.

They need to move the OS back to being a bit cleaner and focused on being useful (skeuomorphic changes sucked), and I'm confident in Ive for that.

iOS can use some updating, so I'm looking forward to iOS 7 to see what they've been doing in that space.

They really do need to hit the ball out of the park for the Pro market (soon!), even if it's not a huge revenue source. That one is about respect.

TV is just a massive, massive opportunity if done correctly. I think they could kill Nintendo as well (i.e. the more casual gaming market).

iPads are awesome. Hard for me to imagine how they can make them better, besides improving software. That market segment is going to be around for a long time, and they're doing great in it.

iWatch sounds neat, but more importantly it shows they are imagining what comes after phones.

So, my areas of "concern" are around keeping the OS awesome. Everything else is looking great, IMO.

Very well said Salmon; I think you're spot on. Spoken from another long-term AAPL investor.

Ron
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,170
31,225
Stock down over 3% pre-market. Tim Cook could announce a cure for cancer and the stock would tank because Wall Street hates Tim Cook. Seriously is there another company CEO as hated as Tim Cook is right now? I honestly don't know what he did to generate this level of hatred. The way some people talk you'd think he was a mass murderer or something. :eek:
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
rough transcript said:
- $2.5 billion in dividends, concluded $1.95 billion accelerated share repurchase program. 4 million shares of Apple stock retired.
This calculates to an average cost of $487.50 per share.

As I write this AAPL is $398.51 per share and Apple has committed to $60B in repurchases as of now. That's another 150m shares or so of the 930m outstanding.

The lowest technical analyst (different from other analysts) call I have seen is a target of $300-320 in the May-June 2013 time frame. The stock already met my own technical level when it dropped past $445 then $420, filling two gaps in the chart created when there were surprisingly great product releases or earnings data.

Rocketman

----------

Unfortunately, they are going to be borrowing money to do this. They may have a lot of cash but most of it is overseas (for tax reasons) and can not be used for the increased dividend or stock buy back.

Overall, some very good news but I think the stock will go down on Wednesday.
Right on both accounts. Moodys today restated AAPL credit rating for senior debt at Aa1 (better than FEDGOV), so their cost of capital may set new record lows after some of the debt GE issued last year.

The fact they have to asset shift to the USA, using debt, due to bad FEDGOV tax policy is telling. I hope they use debt to not only shift funds to USA to pay for stock buybacks, but also use their investment accounts overseas to buy stock in the market so when they decide later to "retire it" it will produce a massive net gain cash flow in a foreign jurisdiction with low taxation.

Apple also has massive construction projects in the USA with HQ, server farms, satellite locations in TX and FL, as well as more retail expansion.

And a tiny increased manufacturing presence in the USA.

I for one want AAPL to go private at this price. The finance exists to pull it off.

Rocketman
 
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TallManNY

macrumors 601
Nov 5, 2007
4,743
1,594
This calculates to an average cost of $487.50 per share.

As I write this AAPL is $398.51 per share and Apple has committed to $60B in repurchases as of now. That's another 150m shares or so of the 930m outstanding.

The lowest technical analyst (different from other analysts) call I have seen is a target of $300-320 in the May-June 2013 time frame. The stock already met my own technical level when it dropped past $445 then $420, filling two gaps in the chart created when there were surprisingly great product releases or earnings data.

Rocketman

----------

Right on both accounts. Moodys today restated AAPL credit rating for senior debt at Aa1 (better than FEDGOV), so their cost of capital may set new record lows after some of the debt GE issued last year.

The fact they have to asset shift to the USA, using debt, due to bad FEDGOV tax policy is telling. I hope they use debt to not only shift funds to USA to pay for stock buybacks, but also use their investment accounts overseas to buy stock in the market so when they decide later to "retire it" it will produce a massive net gain cash flow in a foreign jurisdiction with low taxation.

Apple also has massive construction projects in the USA with HQ, server farms, satellite locations in TX and FL, as well as more retail expansion.

And a tiny increased manufacturing presence in the USA.

I for one want AAPL to go private at this price. The finance exists to pull it off.

Rocketman

Rocketman,

Do you realize what the control premium to buy all the shares of Apple would be? I can tell from your posts that you are a sophisticated investor (presumably more so than me). But I can't see how it is feasible for someone to take Apple private. Now a company does not go private itself. It gets taken private by a collection of people or companies. Who could do this? Let's assume a management take over by Tim Cook. He would need to buy all the shares. If he did a tender offer to the shareholders at $450, do you really think 90%+ of shareholders would offer their shares at that price? I know I wouldn't even consider it.

Obviously Tim Cook is just a placeholder. If you want to make this more feasible use Berkshire Hathaway or use a big fund like Blackrock or Fortress. Let's say the shareholders are so spooked right now that an offer of $600 per share would be accepted. That would mean you would need to pay around $600 billion in cash to the shareholders. $100 billion (after taxes on the overseas cash) or so could come from Apple. But the other $500 billion would have to be borrowed, right? It would take a syndicate of the largest banks, private equity shops and hedge funds to raise that kind of cash. Even if your lenders were putting up $5 billion positions (and how many financing shops can do that for an investment in one company?), you would have to coordinate 100 of them. I just do not see how that is feasible. Also, the new private company would now be carrying $500 billion in debt and assuming folks who made that loan want a nice return on their loan, there would be yearly debt service of $50 billion, $25 billion if you think folks are lending at 5% to a heavily leveraged company that has two basic product lines that generate most of their profit. Again, this just does not seem possible.
 

Dmunjal

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2010
1,533
1,542
Let investors worry then. Other companies will always be releasing stuff for the sake of releasing stuff. Samsung just added a bunch of gimmicks to their new phone so they have something to rattle off on a spec/feature list. Even though most people will probably rarely use these "features" lets throw them in there so maybe the press will talk about that instead of the narrative being 'ho hum, it's just spec bump with a faster processor and better camera'. HTC completely redesigned their phone (hmm...I thought everyone loved the design of the One X) because they needed something to get people talking about them. And if you read most reviews of the One vs. S4 its basically buy the One if you care about premium design, buy S4 if you don't.

I think it would be a disaster for Apple to basically carbon copy Samsung. There have been many times over in Apple's history that they were considered doomed because they didn't follow a certain strategy and that some other product would be a Apple "killer". Now is no different than all those other times.

----------



And yet iPhone 4 and 4S continue to sell very well. This media meme that everyone wants a larger screen phone is bunk. I'm sure there are some people who do but I'll bet the percentage of people leaving iPhone (or never coming in the first place) because of screen size is a very small percentage. Otherwise why would the 4 and 4S continue to sell so well? Where are the factual data points to suggest Apple is losing meaningful iPhones sales because the screen isn't 5"?

Because they're cheaper?
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
Does not compute. In one post you state that lowered margins are never a good thing. In another you explain why there are lowered margins and why they should be expected.

So what's the problem? Um...reality?

Wow, a gopher pitch. (Must... resist)

Yes, I explained why margins are lower, and why that isn't desireable. I could explain a lot of things that can be expected and aren't good. Please don't make me do it.

If APPL were driven by what the investors wanted then they'd be in trouble. As a publicly traded company they need to keep an eye on things like share price etc but it shouldn't be the driver. As stated in the call APPL continue to focus on the long term, unlike the short market which often looks for short term opportunities.

On the not moving quickly enough. Cook referred to how well the iPhone 4 was doing in emerging markets. That's a 2.5 year old phone and its still selling well. Maybe this SKU/product churn isn't necessary if you make good product in the first place.

We saw the impact of APPL rushing things last year. iOS 6 Maps got them worldwide coverage, for all the wrong reasons. The short life of the iPad 3rd gen had people criticising for that. They will release when the products are ready and they have sufficient inventory to match the demand. Isn't that the way that a responsible company should behave?

First off, AAPL.

It's all well and good to say that a company should not be driven by investor expectations, and that is fine, up to a point. It's a very limited point, though, if for no other reason than a company's investors include their top execs and board members. They get stung by falling stock prices too. Stock is also used by the company to recruit and retain top people, so once again a falling stock sharply undercuts that tool. Nobody is invested in falling stock values, except naysayers and people who short sell.

Apple will always be criticized for something, but criticism falls flat when they continue to produce earnings growth. The narrative only changes when earnings growth levels off, or goes backwards, as it did this quarter. Now the doubters have a full clip to fire off.

Let investors worry then. Other companies will always be releasing stuff for the sake of releasing stuff. Samsung just added a bunch of gimmicks to their new phone so they have something to rattle off on a spec/feature list. Even though most people will probably rarely use these "features" lets throw them in there so maybe the press will talk about that instead of the narrative being 'ho hum, it's just spec bump with a faster processor and better camera'. HTC completely redesigned their phone (hmm...I thought everyone loved the design of the One X) because they needed something to get people talking about them. And if you read most reviews of the One vs. S4 its basically buy the One if you care about premium design, buy S4 if you don't.

I think it would be a disaster for Apple to basically carbon copy Samsung. There have been many times over in Apple's history that they were considered doomed because they didn't follow a certain strategy and that some other product would be a Apple "killer". Now is no different than all those other times.

I'd be the last one to ever suggest that Apple should pull a Samsung, or a Microsoft, or an any other company. Apple is Apple, and they do Apple better than anyone could possibly hope. They will never (I hope) become a me-too company. Which is not to say that the competition isn't nicking Apple pretty good these days. The truth is in the numbers. So I think it's pretty clear that Apple has to do Apple better than ever now. The good news is I am quite certain management knows it at least as well as we do, and that resting on laurels is not an option.

It's going to be a rough few months for investors. I've kind of reconciled myself to that, which I would not do if I thought Apple had turned into Samsung or Microsoft. But in the meantime, at least Apple is sending me more cash. That will go some way towards compensating for what is likely to be a flat period for the stock value (at best).

----------

Rocketman,

Do you realize what the control premium to buy all the shares of Apple would be? I can tell from your posts that you are a sophisticated investor (presumably more so than me). But I can't see how it is feasible for someone to take Apple private. Now a company does not go private itself. It gets taken private by a collection of people or companies. Who could do this? Let's assume a management take over by Tim Cook. He would need to buy all the shares. If he did a tender offer to the shareholders at $450, do you really think 90%+ of shareholders would offer their shares at that price? I know I wouldn't even consider it.

Obviously Tim Cook is just a placeholder. If you want to make this more feasible use Berkshire Hathaway or use a big fund like Blackrock or Fortress. Let's say the shareholders are so spooked right now that an offer of $600 per share would be accepted. That would mean you would need to pay around $600 billion in cash to the shareholders. $100 billion (after taxes on the overseas cash) or so could come from Apple. But the other $500 billion would have to be borrowed, right? It would take a syndicate of the largest banks, private equity shops and hedge funds to raise that kind of cash. Even if your lenders were putting up $5 billion positions (and how many financing shops can do that for an investment in one company?), you would have to coordinate 100 of them. I just do not see how that is feasible. Also, the new private company would now be carrying $500 billion in debt and assuming folks who made that loan want a nice return on their loan, there would be yearly debt service of $50 billion, $25 billion if you think folks are lending at 5% to a heavily leveraged company that has two basic product lines that generate most of their profit. Again, this just does not seem possible.

You are describing a leveraged buyout, in other words, a recipe for disaster.

Companies generally go private when their performance has been poor and their prospects don't look a whole lot better (e.g., Dell). Putting Apple in that category makes my skin crawl.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Rocketman,

Do you realize what the control premium to buy all the shares of Apple would be? I can tell from your posts that you are a sophisticated investor (presumably more so than me). But I can't see how it is feasible for someone to take Apple private. Now a company does not go private itself. It gets taken private by a collection of people or companies. Who could do this?
Fairly simple in Apple's case. The existing large shareholders hold over 50-60% of outstanding shares. They could simply agree to go private and keep their existing ownership with zero premium. The exit strategy would also be private transactions. There would no longer be daily liquidity, but there would be a lack of daily trading to make odd price action happen as well. This would be of immediate benefit to existing shareholders as the current forward P/E is 6! The moment it is private, the typical forward P/E of a company with Apple's growth rate is between 15 and 30, or a 250-500% value appreciation.

Rocketman

----------

Companies generally go private when their performance has been poor and their prospects don't look a whole lot better (e.g., Dell). Putting Apple in that category makes my skin crawl.
But since it currently trades that way and the buzz says that, why not exploit that, given the facts we know.

Rocketman

Incidentally, the stock buyback by Apple, is on shares that trade daily, in the market, not investors holding it in the long run. Apple's efforts will reduce the float a bit but mainly the daily trading portion of the float. AAPL will become less liquid over the next year or so.
 
Last edited:

pirg

macrumors 6502a
Apr 18, 2013
618
0
Wow, a gopher pitch. (Must... resist)

Yes, I explained why margins are lower, and why that isn't desireable. I could explain a lot of things that can be expected and aren't good. Please don't make me do it.

Wow a cop out. Your commentary aside, so you are saying the problem is reality, right? You know why the margins are lower you expect them to be lower, and when they are lower you begin to worry, right?

But you're not surprised they're lower because you expected it, but then you sell off because they're lower even though you expected it. And people who do that are not morons, right?

Got it. Apple has lower margins on increased revenue, and anyone who can't understand why that is and why it's not anything to be worried about probably shouldn't be investing in apple (which is of course why they're running)
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Margins dropping is a choice by Apple (post Steve) to go after market share more than simply stock price. So the change is real. However this market share strategy is a "sleeper" strategy since Apple enjoys 90% customer satisfaction, and new phones typically result in older phones being passed along to lower income or newer users, the overall ecosystem grows rapidly. But the sleeper aspect is once you have a customer base, they actually desire upgrading every 2 years on average to capture new features they understand and crave. This built-in upgrade base is called an "annuity".

This meme is about to be overlayed on CHINA!

Rocketman

Cook from rough transcript said:
85 million iPhones, 42 million iPads. Unimaginable to us a few years ago.

Achieved incredible scale and financial success.

- Continue to focus on the long term, remain very optimistic in our future.
- Participating in large and growing markets, see lots of promise in front of us.
- Great ecosystem.
- Potential of exciting new product categories.
- Smartphone market will double between 2012 and 2016

Continue to generate cash in excess of our needs.
 
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TallManNY

macrumors 601
Nov 5, 2007
4,743
1,594
Fairly simple in Apple's case. The existing large shareholders hold over 50-60% of outstanding shares. They could simply agree to go private and keep their existing ownership with zero premium. The exit strategy would also be private transactions. There would no longer be daily liquidity, but there would be a lack of daily trading to make odd price action happen as well. This would be of immediate benefit to existing shareholders as the current forward P/E is 6! The moment it is private, the typical forward P/E of a company with Apple's growth rate is between 15 and 30, or a 250-500% value appreciation.

Rocketman


Hmmm, but how would shareholders like myself have my shares taken private? And I would be stuck if there was no exchange that I could sell them on. I can't sell my shares by private transactions because I'm too small to afford to do deals like that. (Finding buyer would require a banker and then I would need a lawyer to document the purchase and sale; that's going to cost a lot more than the $7 I pay to Etrade!) In tender offers, once someone owns 90% of the public shares, the last 10% can be squeezed out at the accepted tender offer price. But I don't think you are suggesting a scenario where 90% of shareholders can be convinced.

Also, there is that rule that says a company can't have more than 500 shareholders of record without having to do all its public filing. Once all the public filings are out there, can the stock be publically traded? While big boys may own most of the shares, I expect even if we just look at the big boys we are still talking about thousands of funds, maybe even tens of thousands of funds. This is the rule that Facebook was bumping up against last year and was part of what spurred them to do a public offering.

Also I don't follow the expected jump in valuation you are suggesting. Liquidity in a security is generally considered a good thing. In general, a stock or bond that is publically tradeable is considered, all else being equal, a better investment than a security that has restrictions on its transfer.

But thanks for pointing out a scenario I did not envision. If the current shareholders are willing to exchange their publicly tradable equity shares for restricted shares that can't be publically traded, then you can take the company private (albeit with many many owners) without needing the vast sums of cash I was bringing up. I just think investors usually want to go the other way, trading their restricted shares for publicly tradable ones.
 

Dmunjal

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2010
1,533
1,542
When I read the article I realized that part. But again, I'm not surprised. They introduced a bunch of new product lines with new manufacturing processes, they've been building more data centres and other infrastructure and probably spending more money to improve overall worker conditions at Foxconn and other factories.

I think you're misreading what's going on and why margins are dropping. It's not because of one-time issues like new manufacturing processes or more data center expenses.

Product margins are dropping because of product mix. That is, more people are choosing iPad Minis over iPad 4s. They are choosing 16GB versions of the iPhone vs. the 64GB (cheaper memory, iCloud use as possible reasons).

These trends are not going to reverse and is a big reason why the stock is down. Margins that were in the mid-40s are now trending to the high 30s and some analysts say it's headed to the low 30s. For comparison, Samsung is in the high 20s.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
When Warren Buffet buys a company he buys the whole thing on behalf of Berkshire-Hathaway (namesake a BK company). When a company goes private, it still has fractional owners and the shares trade in dark pools. But the average guy is excluded and thank goodness, because the average trader is psychotic in how trading happens day to day.

Apple needs to dominate the only inhabited planet we are aware of with an ecosystem. Not bother itself with public disclosures, and investment media, and small investor "feedback".

Rocketman
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
Fairly simple in Apple's case. The existing large shareholders hold over 50-60% of outstanding shares. They could simply agree to go private and keep their existing ownership with zero premium. The exit strategy would also be private transactions. There would no longer be daily liquidity, but there would be a lack of daily trading to make odd price action happen as well. This would be of immediate benefit to existing shareholders as the current forward P/E is 6! The moment it is private, the typical forward P/E of a company with Apple's growth rate is between 15 and 30, or a 250-500% value appreciation.

Doesn't really work. Under SEC rules, a company with over a certain number of stockholders (I believe it is 200) must be publicly traded. They can't go private and retain a bunch of shareholders.

But since it currently trades that way and the buzz says that, why not exploit that, given the facts we know.

What way do you mean? I haven't heard anybody make a case for Apple that sounds like Dell, if that was your argument. Dell has longterm structural issues that (in the mind of Michael Dell at least) requires them to step out of the public trading spotlight. Apple reports one quarter of YoY EPS decline in ten years, and suddenly they're a basket case? Really.

Incidentally, the stock buyback by Apple, is on shares that trade daily, in the market, not investors holding it in the long run. Apple's efforts will reduce the float a bit but mainly the daily trading portion of the float. AAPL will become less liquid over the next year or so.

AAPL won't become any less liquid, by any useful meaning of the term. Even if they bought up a quarter of the shares, the float would still be in the neighborhood of 700,000,000 shares. That's a heck of a lot of liquidity by any definition.

Wow a cop out. Your commentary aside, so you are saying the problem is reality, right? You know why the margins are lower you expect them to be lower, and when they are lower you begin to worry, right?

But you're not surprised they're lower because you expected it, but then you sell off because they're lower even though you expected it. And people who do that are not morons, right?

Got it. Apple has lower margins on increased revenue, and anyone who can't understand why that is and why it's not anything to be worried about probably shouldn't be investing in apple (which is of course why they're running)

Oh, I see. It isn't what I say, but the words you put in my mouth that count.
 

Dmunjal

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2010
1,533
1,542
When Warren Buffet buys a company he buys the whole thing on behalf of Berkshire-Hathaway (namesake a BK company). When a company goes private, it still has fractional owners and the shares trade in dark pools. But the average guy is excluded and thank goodness, because the average trader is psychotic in how trading happens day to day.

Apple needs to dominate the only inhabited planet we are aware of with an ecosystem. Not bother itself with public disclosures, and investment media, and small investor "feedback".

Rocketman

It's interesting that you believe Apple's problems will go away once they become private. The fact is that the problems Apple is dealing with are their own making and the change in the competitive climate. Another fact in business is that high-margin business are very difficult to maintain over time because competitors attack with me-too products that have lower margins.

This has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to happen in any free-market.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Dell wants to go private because the pressures are very different. If we agree Apple is much more successful and has better prospects than Dell, it could only be better for them too, right?

Going private is practical for Apple. Whether or not it happens is a judgment for the larger shareholders. I think they should, but then I am not one.

Rocketman
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
It's interesting that you believe Apple's problems will go away once they become private. The fact is that the problems Apple is dealing with are their own making and the change in the competitive climate. Another fact in business is that high-margin business are very difficult to maintain over time because competitors attack with me-too products that have lower margins.

This has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to happen in any free-market.

You got it. This going private argument is a side show to the main event. Those us who have followed Apple (and AAPL) for some time know that the company is expected to hit one out of the park at every at-bat, or they will be seen to have failed. This used to bother me more than it does now, as I have come to recognize that driving earnings growth to the degree Apple has requires this kind of dramatic performance. Apple is a true innovator. Companies like Samsung are manufacturers, or at best, second-order innovators. Apple is not going to become Samsung, at least not any time soon. This doesn't mean they don't have to compete with the Samsungs of the world.

In short, Apple doesn't have any dire structural problems that require a panic response (and make no mistake, going private is a panic response). They are simply in a lull between new products. It comes down to this: either you believe that Apple still has plenty in the tank, or you don't.

----------

Dell wants to go private because the pressures are very different. If we agree Apple is much more successful and has better prospects than Dell, it could only be better for them too, right?

Wrong. Dell is a failing company without any kind of roadmap to the future. Going private is attractive because it gives them a better opportunity to totally reinvent the company from the ground up -- which is the medicine required if they are to survive in any form. It is a better option than bankruptcy, but only just. This is why I find mentioning going private and Apple in the same thought makes my teeth itch.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Doesn't really work. Under SEC rules, a company with over a certain number of stockholders (I believe it is 200) must be publicly traded. They can't go private and retain a bunch of shareholders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JOBS_Act
wikipedia said:
increase the number of shareholders a company may have before being required to register its common stock with the SEC and become a publicly reporting company. These requirements are now generally triggered when a company′s assets reach $10 million and it has 500 shareholders of record.[13][14] The House bill would alter this so that the threshold is reached only if the company has 500 “unaccredited" shareholders, or 2,000 total shareholders, including both accredited and unaccredited shareholders.
Apple has about 40 "large" shareholders.

I imagine Apple could do more with less scrutiny and external forces on "earnings" and "growth". They could substantially increase market share for example.

Rocketman
 

Dmunjal

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2010
1,533
1,542
You got it. This going private argument is a side show to the main event. Those us who have followed Apple (and AAPL) for some time know that the company is expected to hit one out of the park at every at-bat, or they will be seen to have failed. This used to bother me more than it does now, as I have come to recognize that driving earnings growth to the degree Apple has requires this kind of dramatic performance. Apple is a true innovator. Companies like Samsung are manufacturers, or at best, second-order innovators. Apple is not going to become Samsung, at least not any time soon. This doesn't mean they don't have to compete with the Samsungs of the world.

This is the exact same mistake that they made in the 80s and 90s. John Sculley tried to compete against the PC by becoming more like the PC and almost destroyed the company. Samsung and Google have a different business model and trying to mimic them with low-cost devices or internet services will fail as that is not Apple's strong suit.

We are in a lull and I really believe the Next Big Thing (NBT*) from Apple is revolutionizing how we watch TV. Everything Hulu, Netflix, Roku and others are doing is small potatoes to what is possible. Just like music needed to change, there's $100+ in monthly expenses that most users pay to cable/sat that is ripe for the taking with a new business model that favors Apple.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
This is the exact same mistake that they made in the 80s and 90s. John Sculley tried to compete against the PC by becoming more like the PC and almost destroyed the company. Samsung and Google have a different business model and trying to mimic them with low-cost devices or internet services will fail as that is not Apple's strong suit.

We are in a lull and I really believe the Next Big Thing (NBT*) from Apple is revolutionizing how we watch TV. Everything Hulu, Netflix, Roku and others are doing is small potatoes to what is possible. Just like music needed to change, there's $100+ in monthly expenses that most users pay to cable/sat that is ripe for the taking with a new business model that favors Apple.

Good point. Scully and Co. was bullied into believing that the way forward was to become more like Microsoft. Hence, OS licensing (and dull hardware). It was Apple's near-death experience. Steve wiped that slate clean.

I believe TV is the toughest nut that Apple has attempted to crack, which is why this product has been in the rumor stage for such a long time. Apple has to do what nobody has before, or has even seriously attempted. They need to repeat the feat they pulled off with music, but in a much more complex industry, and without Steve's force of will. If anybody can do it, Apple can. I'm just not seeing how anybody can. Then again I am counting on Apple to see things I don't see, and to make the impossible seem obvious.
 

dampfnudel

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2010
4,552
2,594
Brooklyn, NY
People complained when Apple released the 4th iPad 6 months after the 3rd, and now people are complaining because it may be a year between that announcement and the 5th iPad/2nd iPad mini. :confused:

What's confusing is why Apple wants to release everything in the last three months of the year. Previously, I said it makes sense for Apple to release a new iPhone and a new iPad right before the holidays. Now, I'm not so sure. Then again, who knows, maybe Apple has a hardware surprise in store for us in June.
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,688
170
What's confusing is why Apple wants to release everything in the last three months of the year. Previously, I said it makes sense for Apple to release a new iPhone and a new iPad right before the holidays. Now, I'm not so sure. Then again, who knows, maybe Apple has a hardware surprise in store for us in June.

Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanza, Festivus, reaping festivals, etc

parents buy the expensive toys for themselves and the cheapo $99 or free iphone on contract for the kids. or ipad mini for the kids.

every CPU maker has yearly releases of new chips, why should apple be different?
 

Nightarchaon

macrumors 65816
Sep 1, 2010
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So apples transition from a company which, under Steve Jobs, told the share holders to stick it and sell if they want to make money, to a company which, under Tim Cook, is beginning to scrabble to do what it can to keep the shareholders happy.

This shift in focus will turn apple into A.N.Other corporate entity, i expect gimmicky products, and cheapening of its products now as instead of focusing on good products, it focuses on getting crap out to boost its share price.

Not good at all for the Apple consumer, who now goes from being the focus of Apples developments, to being a commodity used to sell shares.
 
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