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ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,617
1,755
Redondo Beach, California
So why Parallels and not VMware Fusion? VMware is the leader in third-party virtualization technology...

Likely because the folks who make Parallels paid Apple a pile of cash to promote their product. It's a shame because you can bet they now can't talk about Oracle's Virtual Box. Not money to be made there.
 

a0me

macrumors 65816
Oct 5, 2006
1,074
166
Tokyo, Japan
Huh, where did Windows NT 3.X, NT 4 and 2000 go? Or 95 SR1 and 98 SE for that matter? Or XP x64? Or Server 2000, 2003, 2008 and 2012?

That claim about "half as many" releases very conveniently ignores at least eight major and two minor releases..
While I can understand leaving out the Server version from the list, the NT series, Windows 2000 included has always been way above Windows 9x.
 

krravi

macrumors 65816
Nov 30, 2010
1,173
0
Why is Apple ignoring Boot Camp? Maybe even Apple could not keep the temperatures down in Boot Camp.
 

Zellio

macrumors 65816
Feb 7, 2012
1,165
474
Oh gawd, I just died from laughter. I remember a lot of that of that.

Maybe the movie called The Wrestler was right when Mickey Rourke said "man, the nineties really sucked". It was like the 80s (which sucked most) but with only slightly better colo(u)r depth and screen resolution.

80's only sucked if you hated good music and movies and liked style and real haircuts.........
 
S

syd430

Guest
Same here. I once couldn't empty my Recycle Bin because I did not have enough disk space. "Try deleting files to free up space." It never worked with flash drives, always wanted to install drivers for stuff like mice, and had that retarded security hole where you could get in as an admin with no credentials by bringing up the help, printing it, selecting a custom border image, and opening the C drive from the file browser.

Unless you've been using it sometime in the last 10 years, I'm more impressed by the fact that you remember it to such a level of detail. You must have been truly traumatised to have such vivid memories.
 

ravenvii

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,585
493
Melenkurion Skyweir
Why is Apple ignoring Boot Camp? Maybe even Apple could not keep the temperatures down in Boot Camp.

Can you imagine Boot Camp at the Apple Store?

*User reboots machine into Windows, leaves*

*Another user comes to the machine, "Oh, just Windows? I think I kinda like the pink Sony one in the store next door," leaves*

or

"Oh you want to run Windows? Let me show you... we need to reboot this machine for you...

... just a second...

sorry, it's starting up in Windows now..."

"Nevermind, thanks."
 

donutbagel

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2013
932
1
Unless you've been using it sometime in the last 10 years, I'm more impressed by the fact that you remember it to such a level of detail. You must have been truly traumatised to have such vivid memories.

I was stuck with it on my PC well into 2004. Of course, I've used XP, Vista, and 7 plenty, but not on my home computer.
 
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lincolntran

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2010
843
471
been using mac at home and at work since tiger and the bathroom coloured flat intel imac came out. never had any issues at getting stuff done while living without windows. as i use a very limited amount of programs, life was easy.

i've been always wondering why folks run word/excel/powerpoint on mac, when there is pages/numbers/keynote. why pay helluva lot money for those ****** outdated apps from microsoft, when i can have them almost free.

yes, there are a lot of applications that are only available for windows, and yes
it's not good at all. but the problem is not really the lack of good apps for mac, rather than the ignorant IT folks educated imprisoned in microsoft world. and they are really afraid, that if anything changes, they won't be that important anymore. cuz right now they are the total rulers of time and space, as they sit at the exchange management console.
you all could run to them screaming, hey, buddy, there is a whole other world out there...

it's kind of strange, that i can get stuff done for a mid sized business by purchasing the server edition of OS-X for nifty $20: collaboration, backup, messaging, emails, web service, centralized user management. whatever.
in the windows worlds i'd have to shovel out thousands of dollars to get the same things done by puchasing windows 2xxx server, exchange server, licenses for exchange, for active directory.

it's actually so cheap, that some guys don't even bother to do the same with some open source unixes for free.

even on the client devices, i've work with say 50 colleagues, and most of them uses PCs running windows. they are always upset, because their shiny new core i5 laptops with 8 gigs of ram is booting for minutes, antivirus software eats away half of the cpu, and as they resize one window by dragging it's edge, the magic hourglass pops up, and they have to wait 4-6 seconds. on a newly installed lenovo laptop.

the windows folder gets thicker and thicker, boot time increases as days go by. and this is not purely the fault of the operating system, it's the applications, the drivers. everybody creates ****** drivers that have some unimportant resident part, which constantly buggs the user: intel graphics assistant, nvidia helper, realtek audio 3d control panel. is it really necessary for an audio driver to be 160MB? or those HP printer drivers, come on, the recent all in ones doesn't even go under half GIG!

there is no consistent development environment for windows. there are some, yeah, but there's no standard like it is with xcode. you create an app with 3 windows, and the poor user has to download dotnet4x-gamma-delta-xi, which is just 250megs, but upon installing it unpacks itself to the ROOT directory(!) then it starts setup (dot.msi) which then unpacks the real .cab .dat files, and then it actually installs itself to somewhere deep in the windows directory, and of course a copy to some hidden place.
and in most cases on a thin SSD 2-3 Gig free space is not enough to finish this magical operation.

so without any kind of good reason, i'd never put something like this on any of my machines, it does not matter which sw is used, parallels or vmware. if i ever decide to ruin my gear, then it should be virtualbox, because that way i don't have to pay for my suffering.

:mad:

Ouch!!!

The truth hurt! Why would you go and dig up these painful truth that is part of a windows user experience? ;-)

But I think you missed another bag of hurt, the almighty "registry".
 

donutbagel

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2013
932
1
Can you imagine Boot Camp at the Apple Store?

*User reboots machine into Windows, leaves*

*Another user comes to the machine, "Oh, just Windows? I think I kinda like the pink Sony one in the store next door," leaves*

or

"Oh you want to run Windows? Let me show you... we need to reboot this machine for you...

... just a second...

sorry, it's starting up in Windows now..."

"Nevermind, thanks."

You missed a part. "I'll just reboot it into Mac OS X... Any minute now... Maybe it's - NO! 127 Windows updates!" Based on a true experience.
 

jw2002

macrumors 6502
Feb 23, 2008
392
59
without first shutting down all of my VMs.

Why would you be forced to shut down your VM's? Why not suspend (pause) them and then reactivate them once the Mac reboots -- that is if you are running Parallels. That sounds like far lower maintenance to me than having multiple, physical machines eating up valuable office space.
 

redsoxunixgeek

macrumors regular
Dec 1, 2006
115
21
Salt Lake City YOOTah
So the IT people don't have total control of how we should use our laptop.

IT departments can still have control if correctly implemented. We control our macs with a Mac Server, and Group Policy add ins to our directory, and IPAM/Radius Services.

As an IT professional, for our Windows 2012 infrastructure to use the Management Interfaces and remote powershell scripting you have to use Windows 8, so there is no choice really.

I have an MBP, because it is my platform of choice, and i like OS X and am the Mac Guy for our School but i still run a VMware Fusion copy of Windows 7, 8, and 2012.
 

SteveW928

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2010
1,834
1,380
Victoria, B.C. Canada
and what's always ended the discussion is the question, "Why do you want a Mac at work beyond trying to impress people?"

LOL... another 'people use Macs as a status symbol' comment. :rolleyes:

Well, there are a bunch of reasons. First, maybe they want decent hardware. Second, by using virtualization, they can use the Mac OS for most of their work, while still being able to run particular Windows-only apps the company might be using. Or, they can run some particular version of IE that the IT-clowns designed their 'web' apps around. Third, they can create a Windows install that can get mucked up and restored in just minutes while still having their Mac available to them. Fourth, one can run multiple versions of multiple OSs for testing purposes.
 

SteveW928

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2010
1,834
1,380
Victoria, B.C. Canada
Why is Apple ignoring Boot Camp? Maybe even Apple could not keep the temperatures down in Boot Camp.

Because Boot Camp is a totally different animal than virtualization. If you run Parallels, you STILL run OSX... Windows (or Windows apps) are just a window or app layer you can use ALONGSIDE your other work on OSX.

I'd (if Apple) certainly not be promoting getting rid of OSX in favor of Windows on my machines. The whole idea is that you can use a superior machine and OS, while still being able to run some legacy app the company uses while waiting for Windows' demise.
 

RedWeasel

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2010
383
831
i've been always wondering why folks run word/excel/powerpoint on mac, when there is pages/numbers/keynote. why pay helluva lot money for those ****** outdated apps from microsoft, when i can have them almost free.

Well, I run Excel because I use some stock option valuation add-ins that just aren't available on the OS X versions (or Numbers).

I do prefer Pages and Keynote though.
 

Roller

macrumors 68030
Jun 25, 2003
2,912
2,098
That may be the case for consumers, but for business and enterprise, they've ran XP for over 12 years. Go to any supermarket, banks, hospitals, etc... and they're still on XP. Some are in the process of switching to 7, but even so they're not replacing entire computers with it. They're just installing 7 on top of old devices. If they switch to Macs they're likely going to adopt iPads as a way to move towards a portable market. However iPads and Macs in general do have an expiration date for support. As bad as it is for Microsoft, they've enabled prolonged support for their OS, and that's what companies like.

That's definitely true in healthcare IT. We run hundreds of applications, some of which are only just now becoming Win 7 compatible or being replaced by apps that are. I use VMware to run a few of them on my Macs, so I still haven't started to use Win 7. BTW, Fusion has been pretty much trouble-free for me. I used Parallels a few years ago, but switched to VMware after a bad upgrade experience.
 

darko256

macrumors newbie
Jan 29, 2012
14
0
Can anyone please confirm this has been their experience as well with Parrallels vs. VMWare. I'll be using AutoCAD plus possibly Revit. I imagine other 3D software would have similiar hardware needs. Really would like to hear from others who have tried both as I'll be getting a Haswell rMBP this Fall and would love to be able to skip Boot Camp.

I use ACAD, Revit & 3d Max regularly, also MS Access 2010, but not on virtualization. You cannot afford to lose any of RAM on host OS (OSX).

Therefore on my early 2011 MBP 17" (1920x1200) there is SSD (however I can't regret my cheepness not to buy 512 GB instead of 256, because meager 128 GB per OS is insufficient, let's say that OSX is about 10 GB, where W7U64 is about 30 GB, with Office 2010, Building Suite and Adobe CSX6 alltogether almost 80 GB). 8 GB RAM is fine, but it is a pity that in this laptop you can't put 16GB... Transition time (Bootcamp) between OSX and W7U64 is about 60 secs. Last year I compared in one Apple Retail Store my laptop and rMBP 15", of course only in OSX because they didn't posess any Win, and surprisingly my laptop did well. Screen appearance in MacOffice 2011 was already the same. Personally I don't like glass screens so I'm maybe a little nonobjective... Also I can say that ACAD for Mac is a way under its current Win counterpart, although I like ACAD for Mac because it resembles in appearance on old DOS ACADs...

However, Sandy Bridge hardware (and I think Haswell also) is not tuned to Win as it is to OSX so when working in Win there is much more heat dissipation (and battery consumption), especially in modelling and rendering. So the advice would be, for smaller tasks and where is no electricity plug, try to use ACAD for Mac
 
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lincolntran

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2010
843
471
IT departments can still have control if correctly implemented. We control our macs with a Mac Server, and Group Policy add ins to our directory, and IPAM/Radius Services.

As an IT professional, for our Windows 2012 infrastructure to use the Management Interfaces and remote powershell scripting you have to use Windows 8, so there is no choice really.

I have an MBP, because it is my platform of choice, and i like OS X and am the Mac Guy for our School but i still run a VMware Fusion copy of Windows 7, 8, and 2012.

That's true. However, most IT department don't even bother to think about it. They just have their hands full with Windows's. They don't care the minority macs enough to do it. So, most of the time macs users enjoy their freedom. :)
 

truettray

macrumors 6502
Sep 7, 2012
386
268
USA
So the IT people don't have total control of how we should use our laptop.

I would second this... we got an email at work a couple of months ago saying that a small computer firm is going to handle all maintenance, backup, and problem solving that may arise on our computers. Well being the graphics guy in the office, I have a MBP and they have no clue what to do with it, and don't touch it! Which is nice, because I personally don't want them loading my personal files onto their server for "backup."

Having used a very capable Win7 machine for a year, and switching to a Mac for my main business work, I can say that my workflow has become much more efficient on the Mac.
 

ugahairydawgs

macrumors 68030
Jun 10, 2010
2,960
2,457
Why is Apple ignoring Boot Camp? Maybe even Apple could not keep the temperatures down in Boot Camp.

Because they want to get users using OS X. They only want to push Windows so far as they have to in order to satisfy the need for running legacy apps.
 

unplugme71

macrumors 68030
May 20, 2011
2,827
754
Earth
Here's an idea: how about encouraging Mac business use by making more awesome Mac business software?

I agree, Apple should try and push for more business software. However, for those businesses that still require PC apps, they can virtualize those apps and use the Mac for everything else.
 

TMay

macrumors 68000
Dec 24, 2001
1,520
1
Carson City, NV
Can anyone please confirm this has been their experience as well with Parrallels vs. VMWare. I'll be using AutoCAD plus possibly Revit. I imagine other 3D software would have similiar hardware needs. Really would like to hear from others who have tried both as I'll be getting a Haswell rMBP this Fall and would love to be able to skip Boot Camp.

If I'm not mistaken, Autodesk will provide support for applications running under Parallels on a Mac. Very enlightened if true.
 
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