Apple Shifting Further to Consumer Electronics?

[VanNess]

Sigh...

Where do they get these guys?

With Apple slated to revamp it's entire computer line-up (the iNtEL switch) and gearing up to release yet another watershed version of it's flagship operating system - all due by the end of the 2006 - that's hardly what anyone would describe as a movement further away from Apple's Mac core.

And that's based only on what Apple has publicly stated, so far. Maybe this guy should have at least waited for Macworld before jumping the gun, but it probably wouldn't matter in the long run. Analysts tend to think in terms of black and white; it's either going to be an iPod gadget company or a Mac computer company. It doesn't seem to dawn on them that maybe, just maybe, Apple can walk and chew gum at the same time. And if what Apple has been saying for years - that the computer and various consumer electronic devices will someday interact and merge into the so-called "digital hub" - should shed some light on some of the strategic goals Apple has in mind. Better yet, instead of bean-counting Apple's supply vendors, check and see where Apple is spending their R&D.

Call it a computer company, or call it the 21st century reincarnation of Sony (...Snapple), it really doesn't matter. Computers aren't going anywhere anytime soon, and as Jobs said back around 1999 (justifying the big push for OS X), he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life using a Windows PC. Millions across the globe agree.

 

[wilburpan]

A computer has now become a consumer electronic device, believe it or not.

This was my thought when I first read the news item, but I see that Maya beat me to it.

I would phrase it a little differently, though:

Suppose Apple sells a Mac designed to run your home theater system. In this Mac, DVR capabilities are added into what Front Row already does. Its form factor is such that it easily fits into a home theater component rack. However, Front Row is its primary interface. OS X is still accessible, perhaps through some option-command key combination, but when this device boots up, the first thing you see is the Front Row interface.

Now is this device a computer, or a consumer electronics device?

 

[maya]

Sigh...

Where do they get these guys?

With Apple slated to revamp it's entire computer line-up (the iNtEL switch) and gearing up to release yet another watershed version of it's flagship operating system - all due by the end of the 2006 - that's hardly what anyone would describe as a movement further away from Apple's Mac core.

And that's based only on what Apple has publicly stated, so far. Maybe this guy should have at least waited for Macworld before jumping the gun, but it probably wouldn't matter in the long run. Analysts tend to think in terms of black and white; it's either going to be an iPod gadget company or a Mac computer company. It doesn't seem to dawn on them that maybe, just maybe, Apple can walk and chew gum at the same time. And if what Apple has been saying for years - that the computer and various consumer electronic devices will someday interact and merge into the so-called "digital hub" - should shed some light on some of the strategic goals Apple has in mind. Better yet, instead of bean-counting Apple's supply vendors, check and see where Apple is spending their R&D.

Call it a computer company, or call it the 21st century reincarnation of Sony (...Snapple), it really doesn't matter. Computers aren't going anywhere anytime soon, and as Jobs said back around 1999 (justifying the big push for OS X), he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life using a Windows PC. Millions across the globe agree.

You realize that you pretty much said the same thing I stated.

The iPod is a computer and a consumer electronic as the Macintosh platform is a consumer electronic device and also a computer. It has already merged with the releases of the iMac G5 rec C.

Notice how the 5G iPod does music, pictures, video and also hold contact data, etc.. pretty much what a light based computer would do, except inputting data directly.

Look at the iMac G5 its not portable, however it has obtained multimedia features ala Front Row and it will continue to do so.

Steve Jobs wants to merge the iPod and iMac into one device yet hve two points of input 1 for flexibility and 2 for power and portability.

The iPod is a mini iMac as the iMac is a big iPod.

 

[DMann]

Sony? in a Heartbeat??

Wow, what are you smoking? Do share some of that stuff!

We've often heard MacFanatics propose ridiculous stuff like how Intel is going to make a special processor for macs, or how Mac uses special high quality components, etc etc.. but this one takes the crown.

How do you propose Apple or anyone for that matter is going to do that?

DVD changer interfacing to a computer? Through firewire? Infrared? What communications protocol arre they going to use? Do you foresee Sony, Panasonic, and all other major electronics company coming together to have a sitdown and discuss about standardising their electronics just because Apple has this amazing idea?


Hah!

Sony can buy Apple in a heartbeat.

Your little computer company is so small in the grand scheme of things, stop trying to think otherwise.

Sony, like MS, may have had a great track record in the past -- but
don't trivialize a frontrunner of innovation. The stock market illuminates
an accurate reflection of this reality.

Back in its heyday, first half of 2000, Sony's stock was between $140
and $150, and has been fluctuating between $30 and $50 since then.
Obversely, the little computer company you refer to has split its stock
twice, has increased seven fold in value, and has more than
doubled in value since March of this year. Having a 75% and growing
marketshare in the MP3 player business certainly doesn't hurt.

Little company? perhaps, but not for long. Innovation is their one
consistent and essential element which fuels this kind of exponential growth.
Besides, just because MS could eat SONY for lunch, as a mere snack, does
not make MS a greater company. MS's lack of innovation has kept its
stock hovering between $20 and $27 for the past five years. Blame it on the
bubble, but Apple is the one company which has both defined and outpaced
all of tech since then.

 

[puckhead193]

do u think the apple and itunes/ipod split into to devisions

 

[iHateWindows]

do u think the apple and itunes/ipod split into to devisions

No, that would be too "Microsoft-ish".

 

[winmacguy]

MAN! thats a LOT of iPods.

Manufactured at the rate of 100,000 a day!

 

[ebunton]

well this is no surprise.

I mentioned ages ago that Apple is turning into a consumer electronics company.

The worlds of "computers" (Apple, Dell, HP etc) and "home entertainment" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer etc) are merging, people.

It seem though, that Apple is the only company that is actually being markedly successful in combining the two in an elegant consumer-oriented package.

 

[Super Dave]

If we're speaking of raw numbers (gross income from Macs+software vs. iPod sales), that's easily studied. But if we're speaking of the "focus" of the company, their ever-increasing presence in the consumer electronics market could be seen as either a "shift" toward that area (at the expense of their focus on computer sales) or simply an "expansion" into that area (adding to the product line with no change to their efforts in the computer market).

Agreed. Even with numbers though, unless Apple introduces more electronics I can't see the iPod:mac ration increasing. With new electronics, who knows.

Regardless, I see this as an expansion, not a shift. Apple will always be focused on Macs, even if they are focused on other things as well.

David

 

[jlewis2k1]

the first ever mac under the couter tvs and stereos. along with the first mac counter computer!!

 

[iMeowbot]

do u think the apple and itunes/ipod split into to devisions

They already split them about a year and a half ago. It would be nice to see them expand the product lineup for real, if it really is a long term goal not to be entirely reliant on the computer business.

 

[Lord Bodak]

This all depends on how you define "consumer electronics." The long standing rumors of a new Apple tablet and an Apple cell phone would both be considered consumer electronics without really changing the core of what Apple is as a company.

 

[hayesk]

I'll sound as though I'm venting, and maybe I am, but subtle things have fallen by the wayside. In Windows one can view all invisible files on the Desktop with a GUI setting--a checkbox, or some such. In OS X one needs a Terminal command, and the insivible files no longer (as of Panther, IIRC) appear half-opaque--*all* files appear half opaque with that setting on. If it's a bug, it should be fixed (and I do believe that a report has been filed.) Maybe it's instead to dumb-down the idea and remind people that invisible files are sometimes needed for things? I honestly cannot say.

It's not a bug. Those files are not "invisible". They're purposefully not shown because they confuse non-UNIX folk, and UNIX folk generally don't need access to those paths on a regular basis. All your personal files should be within your home folder. And the UNIX tools work better from the terminal anyway. And if you really want to see them in the finder, press Cmd-Shift-G and type the path you want. Even tab completion works here.

Apple removed easy support for checking network mail from Mail.app. We need programs such as PostfixEnabler now, which is fine, but support should be included by default. I want to see the results of my cron jobs in Mail.app without any fuss at all, and others should be able to be equally satisfied with an out-of-the-box OS X that doesn't show them the useless (to them) messages.

I think this was more of a case of numbers. There's hardly anyone getting their mail in this manner anymore, and if they left it in Mail, they'd be obliged to fix any bugs that were found or make enhancements related to that feature, so they hid it. As you said, you need third party utilities to do this now.

Besides, why can't your cron jobs just send it to your mail account located on another server?

Other ideas may come to mind, but in the end, there will be those who say, 'Apple Knows Best (tm)'--and they may be right. I'd rather see a dozen more complicated settings in Finder prefs, though--under an 'Uber-Advanced' tab, even--than go to Terminal, for although if I'm an avid Terminal user, the GUI is faster for me.

It's funny that you talk about cron jobs and mail delivered to your machine, which are very niche type things. Apple isn't going to put their engineering efforts into putting GUIs on these things unless they see value for novices and experts alike - and the interface has to be geared first towards the novices first. Those types of features are best left to shareware authors where the experts know what they are getting into and can complicate the interface in the way they see fit.

 

[cubist]

I'm a little concerned that while the Mac OS X applications seem to be improving, the kernel is languishing. It's not a very good kernel, in comparison with many modern Linuxes. Also, junky apps like iCal sit around for years and never get fixed or improved. We do get new add-ons like Spotlight and Dashboard (I never use either), yet resolution-independence and user-selectable fonts & colors seem to never happen. Mac OS X seems to be following the Windows path: Slap on new layers of paint, while the wood underneath rots out.

Hardware-wise, Apple seems to be shifting to off-the-shelf Intel hardware which will never be better than ho-hum.

It does seem to me that Apple is already giving far more emphasis to the iPod end of their business than the computers. This disturbs me, because Apple has a history of innovating a new market, only to lose it to others (e.g. QuickCam, Newton, Laserwriter). What will they do when the iPod has serious competition and loses marketshare?

 

[freeny]

Analysts are really just guessing and they probably know less than what we know on this forum. A good example would be last weeks downgrade of apples stock value which caused a reaction of the drop in price of about $4. If you check the stock now it has regained this already and will surpass the "overpriced" value. Now other analysts are saying apple will continue on the uprise... Genius!

 

[sjo]

Back in its heyday, first half of 2000, Sony's stock was between $140
and $150, and has been fluctuating between $30 and $50 since then.
Obversely, the little computer company you refer to has split its stock
twice, has increased seven fold in value, and has more than
doubled in value since March of this year. Having a 75% and growing
marketshare in the MP3 player business certainly doesn't hurt.

I don't think your comparison is entirely fair now. If you compare stock values of early 2000, you should take the value of Apple stock from the same time, split adjusted, it was nearly $40 back then, falling sharply with the rest of the IT-bubble stock, regaining those levels only earlier this year.

Sony on the other hand has suffered with many other Japanese companies slacking valuation at Nikkei for several years, having only recently started to raise again.

Taken that right now it seems that Apple's stock has gained pretty heftily from future expectations and Sony has been lacking lately, I'd probably pick Sony stock for 2006 of these two.

 

[weg]

Jobs a few years ago was interviewed said that Apple was going to be next Sony.

Does this mean that iTunes songs will install a rootkit on my Mac?

 

[GregA]

To another poster, you wrote:

How do you propose Apple or anyone for that matter is going to do that?

DVD changer interfacing to a computer? Through firewire? Infrared? What communications protocol arre they going to use? Do you foresee Sony, Panasonic, and all other major electronics company coming together to have a sitdown and discuss about standardising their electronics just because Apple has this amazing idea?

I don't know if the new standards Intel is building allow for this communication. A few years back Firewire was touted as the answer to this, but it has not been pursued. (Firewire can be device-to-device, where USB2 requires a controller)... and some rumours have Apple dropping Firewire1 from their computers.

Assuming we're talking Firewire - if Apple wanted to interface with various components, they would have to build them themselves .... and wait and see if other companies offered compatible devices.

 

[macidiot]

Interesting point. An Apple games console based upon Freescale processors would be pretty hard to pull off - Apple would have to adopt a Sony or Nintendo style business model (keep the platform closed, require every game to pass a quality test, charge companies for right to release their game on the platform, sell the hardware at a loss, make money from software sales), which could cause Apple to loose focus.

However, with an Intel core, Apple could adopt a game console strategy much more like the Microsoft Xbox: make it easy for PC games producers to release a version for the games platform; developers write the game to use a subset of PC hardware (IE, a hardware compatibility list), then just write a little (Apple-centric) bootstrap code to launch the game.

just a little correction... As a business model, Nintendo generally does not sell hardware at a loss. Sony, however, does.

The model you described is Microsoft strategy with the xbox. The xbox division became profitable for the first time in 2005, 4 years after the xbox was introduced. And they will never recoup the billions spent in launching it. Then again, MS has money to burn. To them it was worth it to establish xbox as a viable platform.

I highly doubt Apple will enter the game console market. For one thing, Jobs doesn't like videogames. And for another, they already tried it with the Pippin.

I do think that Apple is going to introduce a htpc-type computer.

 

[macidiot]

Sony can buy Apple in a heartbeat.

Your little computer company is so small in the grand scheme of things, stop trying to think otherwise.

To quote you, Dude, what are you smoking and where can I get some?

Your dreaming if you think Sony can buy Apple. Unless Sony has a $80 billion stuffed in a mattress somewhere.

FYI, Sony is worth about half of what Apple is worth, in market cap. So, effectively, Sony is the "so small in the grand scheme of things" company.

In other words, its Apple that could buy Sony.

In fact, Apple isn't that much smaller than Dell. Dell is worth 73 billion, Apple is at 63 billion. And, by the way, General Motors is worth about 12 billion. This time next year, Apple will be bigger than Dell, and GM will probably be bankrupt.

So in the REAL world, where people actually have a clue, Apple really isn't that small "in the grand scheme of things" now is it?

 

[k2k koos]

More Apple is Good.

I don't care if Apple expands into the consumer electronics area.
Knowing Apple they will do it in style and well executed.
As long as they do not give up the Macs, and keep that as triving as it is, then I don't see any reason why expanding should be bad. Just hoping that it will not take a way resources from the Mac area.
Who knows, Apple Game console?Or HD TV , home cinema/entertainment/infotainment systems (with integrated Mac...? ?) ... But I'll be equaly happy with just new Macs and iPods, oh , and loads of new music on the iTunes store, (Apple pls merge the stores world wide for an enourmous catalog available to all!!!, I still have so many artists in Europe and US that I can't purchase in the UK,but are available in other countries, and I'm sure this counts for stores in other parts of the world...)

 

[macidiot]

It wont happen - Apple's "shift away from the Mac" that is. Apple's latest statement filed with the SEC says they are still focused on growing their Macintosh based business. It'd get Apple in hot water with the Govt if they changed their focus and ignored filed statements.

I'll have to get the specific statement filed with the SEC later. I'm in a rush right now, but its my opinion that Apple is happy with the iPod/iTunes because it helps their Mac business. They won't forget where they came from.

Umm, every one of those SEC filings have disclaimers built in. Usually along the lines of "forward looking statements are subject to change." Things like competition, the marketplace, production issues, natural disasters, political events, etc. can all affect what a company does and where its focus is.

Generally, the SEC and government could care less about what Apple's product mix is. What they do care about is accounting fraud.

 

[GregA]

Assuming we're talking Firewire - if Apple wanted to interface with various components, they would have to build them themselves .... and wait and see if other companies offered compatible devices.

I've gone away and thought about it... and couldn't massage any feasible firewire based connectivity strategy together from anything we've heard.

I assume any "integration" with the home entertainment systems will be as a piece that fits into existing systems - just like any set top box does (but hopefully more sophisticated).

 

[FocusAndEarnIt]

I usually say Apple makes smart decisions, but, this one, I can't say that

 

[UWF404]

Wow, what are you smoking? Do share some of that stuff!

We've often heard MacFanatics propose ridiculous stuff like how Intel is going to make a special processor for macs, or how Mac uses special high quality components, etc etc.. but this one takes the crown.

How do you propose Apple or anyone for that matter is going to do that?

DVD changer interfacing to a computer? Through firewire? Infrared? What communications protocol arre they going to use? Do you foresee Sony, Panasonic, and all other major electronics company coming together to have a sitdown and discuss about standardising their electronics just because Apple has this amazing idea?

Hah!

Sony can buy Apple in a heartbeat.

Your little computer company is so small in the grand scheme of things, stop trying to think otherwise.

Small and HOT ! I'd rather be small, in demand and growing vs. large, stale and shrinking.