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Andy-V

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2007
414
596
So how is 'Windows' not a generic term?

Because that never was and never had been a name for an operating system. A generic term for operating system is simply 'operating system'.

Yes, the boxes that appear on the screen are called windows. They are called windows in MAC OS. Microsoft has no copyright on those and has never acted like they do.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
I had assumed from the launch onwards that Apple had called their application store the "App Store" because their applications/executables have the extension .app (whether they be Mac or iOS applications). I never saw it as an abbreviation.

iOS applications have the .IPA extension, not .APP, making your assumption and premise wrong entirely. Apple called it the App Store, because it's the shortened form of Application.
 

logandzwon

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2007
575
9
I'm going to open the LoganDzwon AmazonAppStore which will feature the new amazing 1click payment system so that you wont need to enter your payment info each time. It'll be a hit!
 

gorgeousninja

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2007
360
0
secret mountain retreat
Amazon should be made to comply and desist in using the term.

Just because Apples term has become so successful and ubiquitous does not make it an excuse for others to abuse.

It does again go to show, the fantastic ability of Apple to deliver a system so revolutionary, and yet seemingly now so obvious, that it can turns haters brains into cheese. "I used the term 'app' way before Apple did" No, you didn't!

People used to say "What programs do you use? did anyone ever hear "Oh I don't use programs I use apps"

As people have pointed out; Kleenex, Coke, and in the UK Hoover for vacuum cleaners, have all become generic names for a product, but that still does not allow anyone to blatantly steal that name.

As a final footnote a 'Hodgekiss' is the Japanese name for a stapler... presumably because of some manufacturer in the past that was either unable or unwilling to pursue the copycats as vigorously as Apple has every right to do.
 

xUKHCx

Administrator emeritus
Jan 15, 2006
12,583
9
The Kop
Because people are fed up of Apple trying to protect generic terms used by all? You don't need to be a lawyer to comment or have a view on this nonsense.

The graphics presented in this post show that it is pretty clear that the term came from apple. It is so widely used now is because apple were successful with it.
 

logandzwon

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2007
575
9
Apple Inc. is pissed that somebody used one of their ah-so "original" trademarks? Good thing that they never had to pay off others for their own misuse of other companies' trademarks:"Mighty Mouse" (not the comic character, but the little company that produced computer mice for medical purposes), "iPhone" (Cisco), "iOS" (Cisco) and even "Apple" itself (Beatles)."

Funny, for whatever reason I remember Apple being sued and settling out of court for using "Mighty Mouse" (http://www.google.com/search?q=Mighty+Mouse+sue+apple ) "iPhone" and "iOS" (http://www.google.com/search?q=cisco+apple+sue) and "Apple" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer)

The way I remember it, I'd think Apple understand trademarks very well.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Got to love the armchair business tycoons criticising a company for protecting it's assets. Hilarious.

Got to love armchair thread critics who don't know the difference between its and it's. Hilarious.

That's right. Until Apple came along, they were called programs. The folder in Windows is Program Files; the folder on Macs is Applications.

Amazon should prepare to die.

Why are you making this an Apple vs. Microsoft issue. Palm is just ONE company that has been using the terms APPS (not programs, not executables, etc) long before Apple.

But go ahead - make this a stupid MS vs Apple "war" if you want. Apple should prepare to defend why it believes they should own the trademark exclusively. Because it's being challenged. That's what Apple should be read to do.

And anyone challenging should be defending their argument that "app store" is generic.

It's between lawyers and judges. As I said several pages back - the actual affect on the consumer is nothing either way. Unless you count a bunch of Apple diehards who will piss and moan if Apple loses its trademark (which they don't own yet because it's already been contested)
 

jmcrutch

macrumors regular
Jul 27, 2010
249
79
This is real simple.

Apple sought a TM for App Store and was awarded one. Henceforth, if they want to keep the TM, the are REQUIRED to seek to protect it, including suing when necessary.

The most basic example of this is when you go to a restaurant and order a Coke, if the restaurant serves Pepsi, they are not permitted to simply serve you a Pepsi without informing you that it's Pepsi (or "not Coke"). Coke sends people to investigate whether this is being done to ensure that their TM is not DILUTED. It's their obligation. Many holders of TM have lost this right by not protecting their TM.

When someone infringes in a glaring manner, Coke sues in court.

It's possible, that a court will rule that Apple's TM is generic and therefore not enforceable, but that is for a court to decide ... and not the "court of public opinion."

If you disagree with Apple's right to defend its TM, call your legislator and tell them you don't like the law as it's currently written. You'll probably get a form letter in response.

PS - and I remember specifically having to explain to my mother what an "App" was after she had seen and heard the term many times on TV. This was about 3 months after the release of The App Store.

PPS - up until the last few years, I was a PC-only user (bought first MBP in late 2009) - I'd NEVER used the term App or Application when referring to the PROGRAMS I was running on my Windows-based PC. I am 39 years old, btw, and have been using personal computers regularly since 1994 (on a limited basis back to 1986 - the old TRS80)
 
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PlipPlop

macrumors 6502a
Aug 10, 2010
565
0
I'm not sure what you think you were trying to say, your link agree with original statement you replied to. Apple was the first company to market and sell both the mouse and the GUI.

The point was they didn't invent either
 

clibinarius

macrumors 6502a
Aug 26, 2010
671
70
NY
Good....

No one ever said the word "app" until Apple's App Store...

Except for phrases like "Killer App", you're right. Only geeks, err, no one ever said that word.

So how is 'Windows' not a generic term?

Calling an operating system Windows is a big difference because windows is a function of a GUI based OS. And you want OS X to be called Windows, too? Lame.
 

logandzwon

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2007
575
9
Got to love armchair thread critics who don't know the difference between its and it's. Hilarious.



Why are you making this an Apple vs. Microsoft issue. Palm is just ONE company that has been using the terms APPS (not programs, not executables, etc) long before Apple.

But go ahead - make this a stupid MS vs Apple "war" if you want. Apple should prepare to defend why it believes they should own the trademark exclusively. Because it's being challenged. That's what Apple should be read to do.

And anyone challenging should be defending their argument that "app store" is generic.

It's between lawyers and judges. As I said several pages back - the actual affect on the consumer is nothing either way. Unless you count a bunch of Apple diehards who will piss and moan if Apple loses its trademark (which they don't own yet because it's already been contested)

You starting your post criticizing someone for using the wrong homonym, then proceeding to actually spell words wrong. Great way to prove your unable to have a useful conversation.

You seem unable to understand the difference between comparing precedence to... I don't even know what you think you meant.

You seem unable to understand basic concepts of what ownership is, what contesting something means, etc...

-It is better to keep your mouth closed, and people think your stupid, then open it and prove they are right.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
"Container Store" is trademarked.

Check out http://www.containerstore.com . Then explain why App Store should not be trademarked when Container Store is.

It follows exactly what I posted before: Even though "container" is a well-known and often used word, and everyone with half a brain could figure out that a shop calling itself "Container Store" will likely sell containers, "Container Store" is not a word combination commonly used. Therefore "Container Store" can be trademarked. Just like App Store was not a commonly used word combination back when Apple opened the App Store, so Apple got a trademark for it.
 

logandzwon

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2007
575
9
The point was they didn't invent either

Sure, correct, but no one said, or implied they did. Apple isn't known for their inventions. Inventing has nothing to do with trademarks. I think some people on the forums also get innovation and invention confused. In context the poster's comment was that Apple marketed a mouse and GUI before anyone else was even thinking of trying to sell either. After that, they brought a bunch of other innovations to market which were also copied. His statement is factual. You can't really honestly argue those facts.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
You starting your post criticizing someone for using the wrong homonym, then proceeding to actually spell words wrong. Great way to prove your unable to have a useful conversation.

You seem unable to understand the difference between comparing precedence to... I don't even know what you think you meant.

You seem unable to understand basic concepts of what ownership is, what contesting something means, etc...

-It is better to keep your mouth closed, and people think your stupid, then open it and prove they are right.

Can you point out which word(s) I spelled wrong? Seriously. Since you're basically calling me stupid at best and at least being antagonistic.
 

PlipPlop

macrumors 6502a
Aug 10, 2010
565
0
Sure, correct, but no one said, or implied they did. Apple isn't known for their inventions. Inventing has nothing to do with trademarks. I think some people on the forums also get innovation and invention confused. In context the poster's comment was that Apple marketed a mouse and GUI before anyone else was even thinking of trying to sell either. After that, they brought a bunch of other innovations to market which were also copied. His statement is factual. You can't really honestly argue those facts.

Saying Windows didn't invent those things is implying that Apple did. It would also be Microsoft not Windows :eek::rolleyes:
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

When I hear App Store the first thing that pops into my head is Apple.

You and everyone else. ;)

Many are unwilling to admit it, however.
 

ZipZap

macrumors 603
Dec 14, 2007
6,083
1,446
This is real simple.

Apple sought a TM for App Store and was awarded one. Henceforth, if they want to keep the TM, the are REQUIRED to seek to protect it, including suing when necessary.

The most basic example of this is when you go to a restaurant and order a Coke, if the restaurant serves Pepsi, they are not permitted to simply serve you a Pepsi without informing you that it's Pepsi (or "not Coke"). Coke sends people to investigate whether this is being done to ensure that their TM is not DILUTED. It's their obligation. Many holders of TM have lost this right by not protecting their TM.

When someone infringes in a glaring manner, Coke sues in court.

It's possible, that a court will rule that Apple's TM is generic and therefore not enforceable, but that is for a court to decide ... and not the "court of public opinion."

If you disagree with Apple's right to defend its TM, call your legislator and tell them you don't like the law as it's currently written. You'll probably get a form letter in response.

PS - and I remember specifically having to explain to my mother what an "App" was after she had seen and heard the term many times on TV. This was about 3 months after the release of The App Store.

PPS - up until the last few years, I was a PC-only user (bought first MBP in late 2009) - I'd NEVER used the term App or Application when referring to the PROGRAMS I was running on my Windows-based PC. I am 39 years old, btw, and have been using personal computers regularly since 1994 (on a limited basis back to 1986 - the old TRS80)

I think this good post pretty much sums it up and ends the discussion.
 

Northgrove

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2010
1,152
438
"It's the way it is now" BECAUSE of Apple, lol. And if it's protected, Apple has every right to pursue this.

Amazon, start your lawyer engines.

Good....

No one ever said the word "app" until Apple's App Store...
This is what I think too. I think Apple has every right to defend their brand here. Especially since they WERE granted the trademark after all. Of course, one can think that trademarks are silly, but this is how it is, and Apple should at least be able to use them for as long as we have the current system.

IMHO, it's Amazon that are being silly here by not so subtly dodging Apple's trademark by calling theirs an "Appstore". Come on... It's like those cheap Chinese copies. Everyone know they're riding on another brand's popularity and I think that's Apple's argument here...
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
This is what I think too. I think Apple has every right to defend their brand here. Especially since they WERE granted the trademark after all. Of course, one can think that trademarks are silly, but this is how it is, and Apple should at least be able to use them for as long as we have the current system.

IMHO, it's Amazon that are being silly here by not so subtly dodging Apple's trademark by calling theirs an "Appstore". Come on...

I think Apple can defend the TM all they want. I just don't agree that the TM should have been granted. Of COURSE Apple should (try to) defend it.

Amazon is clearly saying "FU" to Apple by naming their App Store the appstore. They are basically firing a shot at the bow to indicate that they intend to fight the trademark as much as they can because they don't see it as valid.

Again - this is about lawyers and trademark law. In the end - the result to the end user is minimal to none.
 

Red-red

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2007
313
0
There's a huge difference between what he terms "app" meant in the past and it was certainly not used in the context Apple's "app store" now uses it.

It wasn't in general use and it certainly wasn't generic before it was popularised to the mass public by Apple. Now geeks and people IT will remember the term "app" being used but it certainly wasn't something over a hundred million people around the world recognised.

It was used on extensions, folders, cracks etc because writing "applications" was silly. Everything was shortened but it certainly wasn't because people wanted to popularise the term, create a subsequent store from it and sell them. It was just a shorted version of application. Much like exe is...

I never knew of anyone saying "app". Some people might but I certainly don't. It was and always has been applications or programs even with people familiar with tech. Those outside of tech almost certainly didn't use the term app.

There's a very big difference between some obscure use of the word app in previous products and how Apple now use it. It was the word of 2010 precisely because of Apple.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
PPS - up until the last few years, I was a PC-only user (bought first MBP in late 2009) - I'd NEVER used the term App or Application when referring to the PROGRAMS I was running on my Windows-based PC. I am 39 years old, btw, and have been using personal computers regularly since 1994 (on a limited basis back to 1986 - the old TRS80)

And you don't matter one bit I'm sorry to say. I and many others in this industry, as I have shown, have been calling them Apps and Applications outside of the Apple eco-system for years and years. Terms like "Killer app", "API - Application Programming Interface", "Web Apps" have been around for years.

Where did you think Java got the "Applet" from ? It's simply a small Application. You can say you're 39 years old and never used it, but in the end, it doesn't matter. Applications is a word that has been used to describe software for a long time. It has been shortened to App for close to as long.

As such, Apple just asked for essentially a trademark on Shoe Store to sell shoes in. Don't be surprised that the industry is interested in opposing this trademark. Maybe Apple should've thought about that and stuck with itunes App Store or called it iPhone App Store and renamed it iOS App Store.
 
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