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Apple Turning to Samsung as Low Display Yields for Retina iPad Mini Continue
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Love the way people think Apple can just offer to buy something and that business will sell!
I think a lot of consumers have a difficult time understanding the layers and complexity of the relationship between Apple and Samsung.
People want to put it into simple two dimensional terms - 'us vs. them', 'good guys vs. bad guys' almost like you'd root for teams at a sporting event.
Put the vast size and scope of what Samsung does makes it difficult to do that. There are areas where it makes great business sense for them to be allies, other areas where they are fierce competitors and some areas that get really blurry.
I would bet anything that both sides engage in ruthless competition that straddles an ethical line or law sometimes. But there are other areas where the almighty dollar trumps everything and they know they can make a ton more working together than fighting each other.
People want to put it into simple two dimensional terms - 'us vs. them', 'good guys vs. bad guys' almost like you'd root for teams at a sporting event.
Put the vast size and scope of what Samsung does makes it difficult to do that. There are areas where it makes great business sense for them to be allies, other areas where they are fierce competitors and some areas that get really blurry.
I would bet anything that both sides engage in ruthless competition that straddles an ethical line or law sometimes. But there are other areas where the almighty dollar trumps everything and they know they can make a ton more working together than fighting each other.
Maybe because they are not a manufacturing company? They got rid of all manufacturing and assembling (they want to do a little bit of latter with MBPs now but that's not a serious business). Apple is mostly a design (including some software) and retail company now.
I'll admit I have no knowledge of display manufacturing processes, but I would have thought that after nearly 3.5 years of retina displays that the manufacturing process would offer a better yield.
I guess this is one of the rather rare cases where automated machines don't always produce constant quality - even after many years.
Evil geniuses! muh hahahaha
Read the opening text in trailer to Pirates of Silicon Valley:
YouTube: video
Steve Jobs (Noah Wyle) himself used that quote all the time. And get this, Apple and Microsoft 'stole' the idea of the Graphic User Interface from Xerox. So does that make Apple evil too?!!! OMG LOL
But seriously guys, stop with the Samsung are evil comments. It's just sounds pathetic. You don't work for Apple and you're not part the Apple team. Although some here act like it. So stop trying to defend them.
They were at one time. With their cash pile, they could want to make some bigger acquisitions. As Samsung has shown, there are definitely some advantages to vertical integration.
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Samsung made a small equity investment in them. I don't believe Apple has done the same, but they did essentially prop up Sharp by entering into a large purchase commitment.
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Samsung's display business is struggling relative to the rest of the company. Samsung may well be willing to sell it. LG is struggling as a company, and Sharp nearly went under. I do think Apple would be able to snap up at least one of them if it wanted to.
The point you missed is that apple products use samsung parts
so if your saying Samsung is evil..... And samsung parts are in apple products.... Joining the dots.... Houston we have a problem Samsung Display (spun off as a separate entity last year) might be "struggling" compared Samsung Electronics and its subdivisions, but it's still pulling in over $20B in annual revenue, which is not bad considering Sharp (whole company) had revenues of $27B. Plus, with Samsung Display's recent $2.3B investment in Corning, it makes the company even more valuable.
To be fair, it's not just the yields of the CMOS sensors that makes the top end Nikon/canons expansive. Those top end models Come with state of the art AF, and that is what separates them from the mid range. The canon 5d will take on a 5dx in picture quality no problems, it just does not have the speed of the 1dx, that's what separates them.
I believe it was spun off as a separate entity but is still majority owned by Samsung Electronics. That could mean an ultimate spinoff, or sale to a third party.
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The point you missed is that apple products use samsung parts
Samsung is a highly competent manufacturer. It isn't their products that are "evil." It is their management who engages in or encourages questionable behavior such as IP infringement, astroturfing blogs, and manipulating benchmarks.
I know there are other factors, it just happens to be one of the best yield examples I know of. I don't have current cost prices, but a FF sensor is well over 100x more expensive to Canon than a tiny sensor that goes in a $200 camera. It is probably 20x more expensive than the next largest sensor, like that in other SLRs.
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It probably is "better". Than it used to be. Probably not better than physically smaller LCDs. It'll never catch up.
its still a private company, of course it's majority owned by Samsung. Highly unlikely Samsung will ever sell Samsung Display. Most companies spin off divisions to unlock value and increase shareholder value. This was just a simple case of A + B > AB.
It's time the Apple community gives Samsung some credit. Rather than calling them plagiarisers of a few basic graphical effects Apple used, instead consider how Samsung are actually highly proficient at these complex manufacturing processes which Apple is not capable of.
The point you missed is that apple products use samsung parts
When people say "Samsung is evil," chances are they're referring to the division that makes smartphones and tablets and other mobile devices. That division is a separate business unit from the division that makes touchscreens, chips, and other components.
Does anybody happen to have in-depth knowledge about who in the display business specialized in what? For example, LG/Hitachi does IPS. Sony and Samsung lead OLED.
Because it seems odd for Apple to ask Samsung to help supply them with panels when Samsung invests in Sharp in order to get panels for their own devices.
http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-spends-112m-on-stake-in-sharps-lcd-business-7000012188/
Exactly the sort of attitude I was talking about. People seem to believe Apple can buy anything.
1) They cant.
2) They probably dont want to.
Never happen. If this forum proves anything is that no matter what group you belong to on the internet you are surrounded by idiots. New Apple "fans" here like to think they are superior to others, but as evidenced by this thread that is not the case. Don't confuse MacRumors members with the Apple community at large. There's barely any difference between some of them and those that shout over Xbox Live during a Call of Duty game.
Fact: Samsung are one of the largest manufacturing and engineering corporations in the world.
Fact: They have been doing it for a very, very long time.
Fact: They make products and components Apple have no experience with.
Fact: Samsung are very, very good at making those products.
But what are you going to do? You can't make people who don't want to acknowledge someone is better than Apple if they are too stupid to begin with. If those people had been around during the Starmax years they would have probably said that cloning was the best decision Apple ever made too.
Realistically, Apple could not buy Samsung's mobile division nor component divison. With it being held by the conglomeration that is Samsung Group (from ship building, to skyscrapers, to electronics, to banking, etc). Apple plainly does not have the capital or even close to be able to do the purchase. Samsung Group (parent of Samsung Electronics & the component division) as an entity would be vastly harder to purchase than the purchase of Apple itself . Do you think Samsung Group would allow a profit-center of Samsung Electro. & Component Division to be bought?
As much as Apple fanboys would bring up Market Cap, Apple's total cash-on-hand, etc, Apple is ultimately an ant compared to Samsung Group as a whole. Apple makes a move to buy Samsung Electronics or the entire Samsung entity via stock ownership, their would be a influx of capital/cash created by Samsung Group to counteract the predatory buyout. This can not, and will not happen in the near future...
One thing is for sure, the true value, cash-on-hand, or finances in general of Samsung Group is a mystery. It ultimately is not publicly traded (as a whole, only some divisions are). They legally do NOT need to disclose foreign revenues and profits. I'd wager they have more cash equivalents readily available than Apple and also have substantially more political power/influence to swing.
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People please don't confuse samsung the parts maker with samsung the phone maker.
Samsung make very high quality parts and have all the engineers in the business working for them on parts, just like apple is the company to work for in terms of end product and software, it's the ying and yang.
I think their samsung phones stink but the parts are top quality, it's the design execution that is so poor that ruins what should be very good indeed.
It's not on the books for apple to jump into their own parts making, they did that before with powerpc stuff i believe they were heavily involved or something. Cook is brilliant at supply chain and sourcing and can wrangle a deal out of anyone even if they are at product level war. It's better for apple to remain the guy who puts it together.
Same with the so called apple tv panel, that will never happen because the panel is the product and is marked down the next year so massively you loose all your profit on last years left overs. Yes supply chains are only a few days but parts are made in runs and you end up with tonnes of these things and massive losses unless you are clever.
Samsung make very high quality parts and have all the engineers in the business working for them on parts, just like apple is the company to work for in terms of end product and software, it's the ying and yang.
I think their samsung phones stink but the parts are top quality, it's the design execution that is so poor that ruins what should be very good indeed.
It's not on the books for apple to jump into their own parts making, they did that before with powerpc stuff i believe they were heavily involved or something. Cook is brilliant at supply chain and sourcing and can wrangle a deal out of anyone even if they are at product level war. It's better for apple to remain the guy who puts it together.
Same with the so called apple tv panel, that will never happen because the panel is the product and is marked down the next year so massively you loose all your profit on last years left overs. Yes supply chains are only a few days but parts are made in runs and you end up with tonnes of these things and massive losses unless you are clever.
I wish samsung would build their devices with materials similar to the nexus 10 rather than the hard plastic they usually use. The nexus 10 feels amazing and nothing like the note and galaxy series at all. Better than the fake leather note 3 as well.
Samsung Display is a tiny piece of Samsung. Perhaps for strategic reasons it doesn't want to cede control of it, but it is a laggard relative to Samsung Electronics' mobile business. It's entirely plausible to me that they could sell it in the future. If so, Apple would be a logical buyer, and they absolutely have the capital to do so. Samsung Display's revenue is about $20 billion per year and their profits are about $3 billion per year.
Samsung group would never sell something that makes 3 billion dollars a year, and does R&D that spreads into its other divisions. And gives it a good position in global manufacturing, its to valuable to sell.
Even if Apple made an offer, Samsung Group will match it and then some. As has been stated, Samsung Group is not publicly traded, and does not report total profits to the public. With the size of Samsung Group, they are a much larger company than Apple, and can easily match any predatory buyout that Apple would attempt. Not that Apple ever would, there is no point.