Apple Working on Scalable 3D Touch Technology for Future iPads and iPhones

[mdelvecchio]

I concur with your feeling; it sounds as bad as Undo on the iPad.

Whenever I plonk myself down with the iPad, up pops the Cancel/Undo window because of the movement. I wish I could turn it off. It's such a stupid thing. As if anyone shakes their iPad to undo. And just another example of how unsuited iOS is for the iPad.

I shake to undo text entry all the time.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Well it kinda does. If they can't put 3D Touch in an air then they can't put it in the pro which only leaves the mini. And I can't see them skipping the pro and air a generation while the mini supports 3D Touch.

he said "period". that it's not ready now doesn't mean it always won't be.

 

[Jonathan Boice]

No 3D Touch for iPad Air 3 doesn't mean no 3D Touch for iPads period.

Exactly there is a feeling that everything is not cooked yet I am happy to wait for iOS 10 to see if it leverages the foundations that have been put in place, but I am wondering what is happening over there.. things feel all little rushed and not fully formed or completely void of realisation. For example iOS does to work well in its current state on the iPad Pro, the Apple Pencil is great but completely forgot about what people should do with it when not in use? and don't get me started on that charging solution is http://igg.me/at/valkariclip/x/12924679 but will have to wait, Apple music is just another point where things are a complete mess... god help us on what this car will look like if this is there current mind set.

 

[iapplelove]

he said "period". that it's not ready now doesn't mean it always won't be.

Ehh that could have been taken either way

 

[5105973]

I was looking at a new iPad Air 2 yesterday, vaguely considering buying one but was really struck by what a low PPI the display was to my eye. I would never buy a device with such a jaggy display now. I consider the display on my 6s+ now barely acceptable.

I know you're going to get a lot of arguments about this but I have to agree, the Air 2 display of print isn't pleasant to my eye, either. I had to return my IPad Air and go with the retina Mini back in the day because the display on the Air bothered my eyes and gave me headaches. Though my IPad 2 before that didn't bother me and seemed to have less "dotty" or jagged script. Weird. Everyone apparently has different perceptions.

Getting back to the topic of 3D Touch on iPads, I'm not bothered that there is a wait. Pushing down on my mini's display is awkward compared to doing this on an iPhone. I'd rather have the ability to use the Apple pencil extended to all iPads.

 

[2457282]

Why is it called Force touch and 3D touch? is there a difference in technology between the devices? the watch and magic devices have force touch and the phones have 3D touch? If it's just marketing, this this is terrible as it is confusing.

 

[RogerWilco]

When will Apple realize that consumers want real innovation? How about an Apple-branded selfie stick for the iPad Pro? Ive and the Boyz could knock that one out of the park -- "finely crafted from microcrystalline tit-tanium..."

 

[manu chao]

Are you serious? It was the show stopper of last years event. Its power was unprecedent for an iPad. No top of that we assume from these specs that this model was waiting on some excellent multitasking features in the iOS 9 which of course was true. It is the new iPad 2 of all iPads; something that people will probably keep for a while.

So, getting the A9(X) isn't counting as a 'gee whiz' feature for the Air 3 but getting the A8X was for the Air 2? Using Geekbench scores, going from the A7 (iPad Air) to the A8X (iPad Air 2) brought a 24%/71% increase (single/multi core). Going from the A8X (iPad Air 2) to the A9X (iPad Pro) brings a 78%/21% increase (single/multi core).


****************
Geekbench scores:

A9X:
S: 3219 M: 5462

A8X:
S: 1811 M: 4531

A7:
S: 1465 M: 2647

Why is it called Force touch and 3D touch? is there a difference in technology between the devices? the watch and magic devices have force touch and the phones have 3D touch? If it's just marketing, this this is terrible as it is confusing.

Such labels are always to a large degree marketing. One difference is that force touch on the watch to my knowledge doesn't differentiate between different pressure levels (ie, there is no different functionality depending on how hard you press). On the phone, you have at the very least peek and pop, ie, press down and you get peek, press down even harder and you get pop. And behind the scenes the hardware registers a much more nuanced pressure level reading (which then allows to modify in software what pressure level you want to have for pop and peek). You can call this registering finger 'position' in three dimensions, horizontal and vertical like on every touch screen but also depth (where pressure level correlates with 'depth').

It has also been widely discussed that the term 'force touch' might not be the best because it can raise negative connotations (which might have been another reason why Apple moved away from it with its second implementation of a pressure sensitive screens in their phones after their first product, the watch).

 

[manu chao]

See above.

 

[MrXiro]

Why is it called Force touch and 3D touch? is there a difference in technology between the devices? the watch and magic devices have force touch and the phones have 3D touch? If it's just marketing, this this is terrible as it is confusing.

Force touch is just pressure sensitive. I.E. You press anywhere on the watch face and you get the same result of some pop up.

3D Touch involves 2 inputs; the touch screen along with the pressure on the screen, like pushing down on the camera app launches photo taking options as opposed to just launching one task by pushing down on the screen.

 

[MrXiro]

So, getting the A9(X) isn't counting as a 'gee whiz' feature for the Air 3 but getting the A8X was for the Air 2? Using Geekbench scores, going from the A7 (iPad Air) to the A8X (iPad Air 2) brought a 24%/71% increase (single/multi core). Going from the A8X (iPad Air 2) to the A9X (iPad Pro) brings a 78%/21% increase (single/multi core).


****************
Geekbench scores:

A9X:
S: 3219 M: 5462

A8X:
S: 1811 M: 4531

A7:
S: 1465 M: 2647


Such labels are always to a large degree marketing. One difference is that force touch on the watch to my knowledge doesn't differentiate between different pressure levels (ie, there is no different functionality depending on how hard you press). On the phone, you have at the very least peek and pop, ie, press down and you get peek, press down even harder and you get pop. And behind the scenes the hardware registers a much more nuanced pressure level reading (which then allows to modify in software what pressure level you want to have for pop and peek). You can call this registering finger 'position' in three dimensions, horizontal and vertical like on every touch screen but also depth (where pressure level correlates with 'depth').

It has also been widely discussed that the term 'force touch' might not be the best because it can raise negative connotations (which might have been another reason why Apple moved away from it with its second implementation of a pressure sensitive screens in their phones after their first product, the watch).

I'm willing to bet that peek and pop could be implemented in force touch as I believe it's the same tech in both devices. It's the secondary contextual input of a pinpointed touch screen "button" that is the difference (as opposed to one big button like how it's used on the Apple Watch.

That said, they probably could implement 3D Touch on the Apple Watch so long as the processor can handle the task.

 

[Glassed Silver]

How about a UI that's properly designed for iPad displays and not a blown-up version of the iPhone's Ui?

Way too radical for modern Apple.

Glassed Silver:mac

 

[2457282]

Such labels are always to a large degree marketing. One difference is that force touch on the watch to my knowledge doesn't differentiate between different pressure levels (ie, there is no different functionality depending on how hard you press). On the phone, you have at the very least peek and pop, ie, press down and you get peek, press down even harder and you get pop. And behind the scenes the hardware registers a much more nuanced pressure level reading (which then allows to modify in software what pressure level you want to have for pop and peek). You can call this registering finger 'position' in three dimensions, horizontal and vertical like on every touch screen but also depth (where pressure level correlates with 'depth').

It has also been widely discussed that the term 'force touch' might not be the best because it can raise negative connotations (which might have been another reason why Apple moved away from it with its second implementation of a pressure sensitive screens in their phones after their first product, the watch).

Force touch is just pressure sensitive. I.E. You press anywhere on the watch face and you get the same result of some pop up.

3D Touch involves 2 inputs; the touch screen along with the pressure on the screen, like pushing down on the camera app launches photo taking options as opposed to just launching one task by pushing down on the screen.

Thank you both for the insight.

I agree with manu chao that getting away from the force touch term may be for the best.

 

[magbarn]

So, getting the A9(X) isn't counting as a 'gee whiz' feature for the Air 3 but getting the A8X was for the Air 2? Using Geekbench scores, going from the A7 (iPad Air) to the A8X (iPad Air 2) brought a 24%/71% increase (single/multi core). Going from the A8X (iPad Air 2) to the A9X (iPad Pro) brings a 78%/21% increase (single/multi core).


****************
Geekbench scores:

A9X:
S: 3219 M: 5462

A8X:
S: 1811 M: 4531

A7:
S: 1465 M: 2647
.

You're conveniently forgetting that the iPad Pro is pushing almost 50% more pixels vs. the Air 2. The Pro also doesn't 'feel' as big of a jump in performance in real world use vs. when I went from the Air 1 to the Air 2. Could be that iOS 9 just isn't enough OS to take advantage of the Pro platform, but that's Apple fault then for releasing a Pro device with a iOS not 'Pro enough' for it.

 

[Aston441]

Jagginess could come from how diagonal lines are rendered and not just resolution BTW.
This is why anti-aliasing exists.

I have always dreamed of a world where anti-aliasing was unnecessary.

 

[Aston441]

Nope. maybe in web images that aren't optimized, but I have excellent vision (perfect, no glasses, etc) and there aren't jaggies at normal use distance.

People used to say the same thing about the original retina iPhone displays. Until they compared side by side with the iPhone plus display. Obvious superior display was obvious.

 

[MH01]

the whole "holding back conspiracy" exists only in forums like this ...
same as the "planned obsolescence conspiracy": it doesn't exist in Apple or in any other company.
There is no company that purposely want to upset customers. Marketing 1o1.
Apple (and any other tech company) releases technology when they think it's ready to be used by the public.


haters gonna hate.

Max, the new iMac or the new Mac mini , thats apple holding back on purpose to push you to spend more money on upgrades or another product.

 

[Max(IT)]

Max, the new iMac or the new Mac mini , thats apple holding back on purpose to push you to spend more money on upgrades or another product.

they are not holding back anything.
They are making (questionable) design choices.
You like it, you buy it. You don't like it, you don't buy it.
If people in the real world would really not appreciate their choices, they are going to lose money. SO far it isn't happening.

 

[manu chao]

You're conveniently forgetting that the iPad Pro is pushing almost 50% more pixels vs. the Air 2. The Pro also doesn't 'feel' as big of a jump in performance in real world use vs. when I went from the Air 1 to the Air 2. Could be that iOS 9 just isn't enough OS to take advantage of the Pro platform, but that's Apple fault then for releasing a Pro device with a iOS not 'Pro enough' for it.

You conveniently assume that the iPad Air 3 would get a processor that scaled down from the one the iPad Pro is getting. That might be the case, or it might not. We don't know. We do know that Apple has a processor available to them that offers a quite similar jump in performance from the one used in the Air 2 as the one in the Air 2 did from the Air (1).

With every product there is the possibility that it cannot be improved upon by improving the performance of its individual components because the performance of those components might have reach a level of 'good enough'. But calling me 'you can't be serious', is not what I would use to describe a position that at worst omits a disclaimer to that possibility.

 

[manu chao]

I'm willing to bet that peek and pop could be implemented in force touch as I believe it's the same tech in both devices. It's the secondary contextual input of a pinpointed touch screen "button" that is the difference (as opposed to one big button like how it's used on the Apple Watch.

That said, they probably could implement 3D Touch on the Apple Watch so long as the processor can handle the task.

But marketing terms are about what is implemented, not about what could be implemented.

 

[MrXiro]

they are not holding back anything.
They are making (questionable) design choices.
You like it, you buy it. You don't like it, you don't buy it.
If people in the real world would really not appreciate their choices, they are going to lose money. SO far it isn't happening.

Speaking of design choices... why the heck did they stick with the tired iPhone 5/iPad Mini 1 design for the iPad Pro?

I hate chamfer edges... I've scratched it by accidentally tapping my sunglasses' on them once on my Mini 2. Probably one of the worst design choices Apple has ever made. I much prefer the rounded glass sides of the iPhone 6/s/plus.

 

[8692574]

Update article about a feature, MR members comment about something else they are disappointed with. Every post, it never fails.

You realize the irony of having done the same thing?

 

[Cole Slaw]

I think its a time Apple fork the iPad OS and begin its own development. It may not include 3D touch, but something else iPad-unique to utilize its bigger displays more effectively

The iPad really should have it's own better optimized version of iOS. The way things are going now a hypothetical 17" iPad Pro Plus would still have 4 icons across in portrait mode. I think the IPPs 12.9" screen deserves more than just a phone OS.

 

[MrXiro]

But marketing terms are about what is implemented, not about what could be implemented.

What IS implemented on the phone is that it uses the touch sensor AND a physical press that makes it a 3D touch.

I'm saying they COULD put "3D touch" on the Watch or "add" it in a firmware update so long as the processor in it can handle it. It may or may not be a marketing term but rather that they wanted to find a different name because 3D touch actually is another layer of tech compared to "force touch". If they really wanted to be rid of the "force touch" term they could easily have rebranded the Apple Watch to use "3D Touch" just by having it do multiple "peeks" when you force touch a complication on the face or just straight out renaming it in WatchOS2.

 

[manu chao]

The iPad really should have it's own better optimized version of iOS. The way things are going now a hypothetical 17" iPad Pro Plus would still have 4 icons across in portrait mode. I think the IPPs 12.9" screen deserves more than just a phone OS.

While you might be right in general, this doesn't mean by definition that having 8 icons across (in portray mode) would actually be a better solution. For some reason, there are much less complaints about the 9.7" iPad and the iPad mini sharing exactly the same UI.