AT&T Looking to Add '4G' Network Indicator to iPhone 4S Status Bar

[lilo777]

Here is what real 4G means:

 

[wovel]

Here is what real 4G means:

Image

I agree, it is a battery killer. Was it full at the start of the test?

 

[greekappi]

Here is what real 4G means:

Image

Holy hot damn that's sweet!

 

[Nicky G]

Its more complicated than that, just wanted to get the point across that it is the same.

No, you are wrong, it is not the same. HSDPA does not equal HSPA+. These terms actually DO mean something very specific, they have to do with the release versions of progressive generations of GSM cellular technologies.

See here for more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSPA+

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsdpa

HSDPA Release 5 seems to be what iPhone 4S supports, HSPA+ (AKA HSPA Evolved) is Release 7.

Done, finished.

 

[aristotle]

Whosoever allowed marketing of 3G/3.5/3.7G speeds as 4G speeds is an idiot.

But WiMax is ok as 4G even though it was meant for Wireless ISP for home/office rather than handsets and is not even as fast as HSPA+?

 

[Time Less]

i have a feeling att wants this so they can charge you more for "4g" speed. and once true LTE comes around what will be the pricing then?

 

[lilo777]

A couple of questions for AT&T

* Did they ask other manufacturers (for example, Samsung with their 22Mbps HSPA+ on SGSII) to change HSPA+ indication to 4G on their phones?

* Since AT&T already have LTE, did they ask manufacturers of LTE phones to change their LTE indication to 5G?

 

[Geckotek]

HSDPA Release 5 seems to be what iPhone 4S supports

Problem is, we don't really know this for sure yet.

 

[metsjetsfan]

They may not have implemented HSPA+ in the baseband. There are other HSPA+ capable phones (have a chip that supports HSPA+) that don't have the code enabling it.

If baseband, can they write the code to enable it at a later date? or jailbreak? (provided the qualcom chip supports it)would be funny if they charged extra...

 

[Stetrain]

Probably not going to happen. Apple made a very specific point during the keynote that they were not going to market this as a 4G phone (which has interesting implications, I know it's not earth shattering but that points to having a "real" 4G phone in the pipeline).

If Apple themselves specifically refused to call it 4G, why would they change their software to show it as such? Having a different icon for when you're on HSPA+ would be nice, maybe they'll just have it show "HSPA+" or "3G+" when you're in an area with HSPA+ coverage.

 

[Geckotek]

If baseband, can they write the code to enable it at a later date? or jailbreak? (provided the qualcom chip supports it)would be funny if they charged extra...

It's likely Apple could update it later, but not a jailbreak.

 

[wovel]

No, you are wrong, it is not the same. HSDPA does not equal HSPA+. These terms actually DO mean something very specific, they have to do with the release versions of progressive generations of GSM cellular technologies.

See here for more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSPA+

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsdpa

HSDPA Release 5 seems to be what iPhone 4S supports, HSPA+ (AKA HSPA Evolved) is Release 7.

Done, finished.

You forgot an important one (Since you like WIkipedia):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access

High Speed Packet Access (HSPA)[1] is an amalgamation of two mobile telephony protocols, High Speed Downlink Packet Access (HSDPA) and High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA), that extends and improves the performance of existing WCDMA protocols. A further 3GPP standard, Evolved HSPA (also known as HSPA+), was released late in 2008 with subsequent adoption worldwide beginning in 2010.

And from your own link:

HSPA+, or Evolved High-Speed Packet Access, is a technical standard for wireless, broadband telecommunication. HSPA+ was first defined in the technical standard 3GPP release 7.

HSPA+ provides is an evolutions of High Speed Packet Access and provides data rates up to 84 Megabits per second (Mbit/s) to the mobile device and 22 Mbit/s from the mobile device. Technically these are achieved through the use of a multiple-antenna technique known as MIMO (for “multiple-input and multiple-output”) and higher order modulation (64QAM) or combining multiple cells into one with a technique known as Dual Cell.

The 84 Mbit/s and 22 Mbit/s represent theoretical peak speeds. The actual speed for a user will be lower. In general, HSPA+ offer higher bitrates only in very good radio conditions (very close to cell tower) or if the terminal and network both support either MIMO or Dual cell, which effectively use two parallel transmit channels with different technical implementations.

I am not sure how you fail to grasp that HSDPA/HSUPA are components of both HSPA and its evolution HSUPA. Even if all you read was the wikipedia pages you linked you would understand that.

 

[Nicky G]

The map itself is clear, it's the color key that's confusing.

What they call 4G is HSPA+.
What they call 'Mobile Broadband' is normal 3G.
And they label EDGE honestly, for some reason.

AT&T LTE is only in Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Chicago, and Atlanta.

If you're looking at their map in any other city and see the '4G' color, you're seeing HSPA+.


Go here and click 'Coverage' to see those 5 cities:
http://www.att.com/network/

Go here and type a zip code to see the HSPA+ areas.
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/#?type=data

Useful info, thanks! According to this, the vast majority of The Sprawl, AKA the Northeast USA Megalopolis, AKA BosWash, is covered in HSPA+, and thus presumably can drive very solid high-end HSDPA download speeds. I'm expecting a doubling of downlink on 4S, versus 4. Which I will NOT complain about! *grin*

 

[Xenomorph]

Here is what real 4G means:

Image

I would like to be able to even hit "3G" speeds with my current device.

In St. Louis right now with my iPhone 3GS:

 

[lilo777]

Problem is, we don't really know this for sure yet.

However, we do know that Apple calls it HSDPA and not HSPA+. What else do we need to know?

 

[Geckotek]

However, we do know that Apple calls it HSDPA and not HSPA+. What else do we need to know?

Which release it is.

 

[metsjetsfan]

All this talk aside, what do ppl on this thread think the realworld speeds will be? up/dn. Just average conditions/average usage, i know there are about 50 variables that could affect the speed and the 14.4 down will prob never happen. But if you currently get 2.2 down in your respective area, can we really expect to get 4+ with the ip4S?

i know, i know just being impatient, we will all know in a week

 

[nunes013]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1)

If HSPA+ is defined as a type
of 4G then Apple will likely put the indicator. I'm pretty sure it is defined as 4G. Personally I wouldn't mind it. I would like to know when I'm on 4G versus 3G and putting a plus next to 3G will just confuse people. It is more sensible to just put 4G.

 

[Stetrain]

I am not sure how you fail to grasp that HSDPA/HSUPA are components of both HSPA and its evolution HSUPA. Even if all you read was the wikipedia pages you linked you would understand that.

I think his problem was with the implication that "HSDPA + HSUPA = HSPA+" which is not necessarily true.

The "D" and "U" just stand for the Download and Upload components of the standard. HSPA was one standard, which has both D and U components. HSPA+ is a new standard, and it also has D and U components.

 

[Nicky G]

I tried to do some research about what makes a device and network 4G, and my head nearly exploded. So, here's what I concluded. The masses will ever understand (or care) exactly what makes 4G, 4G. What makes sense, is that 4G is faster than 3G. Really easy to understand. So, if AT&T is stating that they want to make it clear that the iPhone 4S - on their network - can achieve speeds more similar to common 4G networks, by placing a logo that reads 4G when you've achieved those speeds, good for them.

All it says to me is that "I'm going faster", and who doesn't like to know when they're going faster.

It also, of course, allows them to take advantage of the only competitive advantage they have, over unlimited data, and the illusion of the "nation's best most reliable network".

It's actually easier to understand than you may realize, I will clarify for the benefit of you and others. I've spent MANY years researching this stuff. I am a technology consultant for the media industry, FYI.

Originally, the first true 4G network technology was considered LTE Advanced. This is NOT the same LTE that ANY current LTE networks represent, it's a pretty big jump beyond that. Expect it to start rolling out maybe 2016/2018, if my current projections are accurate. It is FAST, MUCH faster than ANY currently-deployed cellular network in the world. As in, theoretical 1 Gigabit per second downlink speed, more realistically a few hundred Megabits per second down while moving, maybe 100Mbps down while moving. Seriously, no joke.

BUt, the cellular companies, as they are prone to do, started rolling out what I'll call 3.5 and 3.75 and 3.9G networks, and decided hey, for marketing purposes, these are way faster than first-rev. 3G, so let's just call them 4G, cuz it will sell more stuff!

I would personally call faster implementations of HSUPA/HSDPA 3.5G, HSPA+ 3.75G, and LTE 3.9G.

Part of the confusing thing is, there are MANY way to set these networks up, and you may very well have HSPA+ networks that are faster than LTE networks. Many factors are at play.

The engineering group that originally defined 4G as LTE Advanced, decided to bow to pressure from the cellular network companies, and have now redefined 4G as anything LTE or greater, but even put a note in their documentation that opens of the terminology more, basically giving the cellular networking companies free reign to call anything "significantly faster" than initial implementation 3G networks 4G.

Does that help?

 

[webman2k]

Here is what real 4G means:

Image

Impressive for sure, but why on earth would you ever need that type of speed on a smartphone?

 

[Nicky G]

Here is what real 4G means:

Image

Where in the hell are you seeing that speed?! Are you positive there's no WiFi connection there?

 

[lilo777]

Which release it is.

It's HSDPA We also know that iPhone 4S speed limit is 14Mbps which is probably irrelevant because AT&T infrastructure does not give us this speed (by a long shot).

 

[richard4339]

Wikipedia says that WiMax, LTE, and HSPA+ are 4G according to the ITU. HSPA+ was classified as 3G, but they decided to change it to 4G.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4g

 

[webman2k]

It's actually easier to understand than you may realize, I will clarify for the benefit of you and others. I've spent MANY years researching this stuff. I am a technology consultant for the media industry, FYI.

Originally, the first true 4G network technology was considered LTE Advanced. This is NOT the same LTE that ANY current LTE networks represent, it's a pretty big jump beyond that. Expect it to start rolling out maybe 2016/2018, if my current projections are accurate. It is FAST, MUCH faster than ANY currently-deployed cellular network in the world. As in, theoretical 1 Gigabit per second downlink speed, more realistically a few hundred Megabits per second down while moving, maybe 100Mbps down while moving. Seriously, no joke.

BUt, the cellular companies, as they are prone to do, started rolling out what I'll call 3.5 and 3.75 and 3.9G networks, and decided hey, for marketing purposes, these are way faster than first-rev. 3G, so let's just call them 4G, cuz it will sell more stuff!

I would personally call faster implementations of HSUPA/HSDPA 3.5G, HSPA+ 3.75G, and LTE 3.9G.

Part of the confusing thing is, there are MANY way to set these networks up, and you may very well have HSPA+ networks that are faster than LTE networks. Many factors are at play.

The engineering group that originally defined 4G as LTE Advanced, decided to bow to pressure from the cellular network companies, and have now redefined 4G as anything LTE or greater, but even put a note in their documentation that opens of the terminology more, basically giving the cellular networking companies free reign to call anything "significantly faster" than initial implementation 3G networks 4G.

Does that help?

Yes, and if I understand that correctly, justifies what AT&T is doing as perfectly fine.