Ban on Sale of Samsung Galaxy Smartphones in EU Set for October 13th

[Rodimus Prime]

And I would agree with that in theory. But his argument was to dismiss the significance in the iPhone to simply of function of latching onto a burgeoning capacitive touchscreen smartphone market and therefore Android UI would have inevitably been pretty much the same when introduced in 2008 without the influence of the iPhone OS.

You are the one who added that. All I pointed out was capacitive touchscreen allowed for touch based OS to really take off. That was the largest and most important factor of them. I know HTC was trying with Window Mobile skins but it was being hampered by WM did not support capacitive touchscreen so it was never even an option.

Things just were changing and allowed for certain things to take place. A lot of the basic parts of iOS like the grid icon is exactly that a very basic something in use a long time before iOS. I know my old Palm TX used the grid lay out. iOS brought other things into the game but that is another story.

 

[Bonfire22]

There's a Pattern

When we look back at many of Apple's product launches since Steve's return, we see a distinct pattern.

1. Apple announce or release a new product.

2. The competition publicly ridicules Apple with a thousand and one reasons why the product will flop.

3. Apple's new product turns out to be a hit, in some cases even a game-changer.

4. Within 12 months, the competition is scrambling to produce the same basic thing. The industrial design is often mimicked, the OS is often mimicked.

We have seen this happen time and time again. It's happening right now with the MacBook Air.

No, Apple aren't leaders in the tech space. Nope, no one ever copies Apple.

 

[Steve121178]

We have seen this happen time and time again. It's happening right now with the MacBook Air.

No, Apple aren't leaders in the tech space. Nope, no one ever copies Apple.

It's been said before, but Sony had the VAIO X505 out long before the Air was ever conceived:

It looks a little crude now, but Apple obviously liked the concept & trend Sony started in 2004. There were slim VAIO's even before this model.

 

[kdarling]

Apparently the Dusseldorf judge didn't want to look like he was wishy-washy, so he kept his preliminary injunction in place.

I'm looking forward to Sep 9, when he makes a final ruling.

Only two weeks away. One thing I have to say, these judgements in the EU are fast.

What do the Dutch think about their ruling versus the German judge, btw?

 

[Bonfire22]

Apple announced the MacBook Air.

Apple was publicly criticized by their competition.

When it was determined that the MacBook Air is in fact what many users want, the competition releases what they themselves call MacBook Air killers.

Apple is not perfect, but they are good for knowing when to introduce the right product at the right time. I get the point that you are making, but those notebooks that never really took off. There is a reason for that.

 

[KnightWRX]

When it was determined that the MacBook Air is in fact what many users want, the competition releases what they themselves call MacBook Air killers.

Too bad it took Apple 4 tries to get it right. The Rev.A through C of the MBA was far from a big success like the Rev.D is.

No one is perfect and like shown, Apple tends to take a lot of inspiration from Sony and others as much as others take from Apple. There is no denying there is a lot of innovation in this industry, by all players involved. To try and make it seem like Apple is the sole innovator and everyone else copies is wrong.

 

[divinox]

Apparently the Dusseldorf judge didn't want to look like he was wishy-washy, so he kept his preliminary injunction in place.

I'm looking forward to Sep 9, when he makes a final ruling.

Only two weeks away. One thing I have to say, these judgements in the EU are fast.

What do the Dutch think about their ruling versus the German judge, btw?

She, three of them. Not that it matters, but still. Second, i read something about infringement vs. validity not being considered together. If true, that might explain some of the speediness (The German court has a reputation of being very efficient though. Saw someone describe them as a "production-line court" - NEXT!

 

[Bilbo63]

As far as criticizing Apple's products when they're announced, pretty much all companies do that. You certainly don't expect them to praise it do you? That's not good for business.

Ballmer (among others) publicly trashed the iPhone. It was reported that in private, he was quite concerned about what the iPhone"might" do. Don't know for sure how he really felt, but again, what's he supposed to say? He said the only thing that he could say.

 

[kdarling]

As far as criticizing Apple's products when they're announced, pretty much all companies do that. You certainly don't expect them to praise it do you? That's not good for business.

Yep, and Apple does the same to its competitors when it feels threatened.

For that matter, who can forget the initial "Apple would never make anything that looked like that!" reactions to the first iPhone 4 leaks, even from fanboys... at least until they found out that Apple DID make it.

 

[Bilbo63]

Yep, and Apple does the same to its competitors when it feels threatened.

For that matter, who can forget the initial "Apple would never make anything that looked like that!" reactions to the first iPhone 4 leaks, even from fanboys... at least until they found out that Apple DID make it.

Exactly. Notice that I didn't say all companies except Apple? I like to keep you on your toes.

 

[vrDrew]

German Court Upholds Injuction on Galaxy Tab

Florian Mueller's blog is pretty much required reading for people trying to follow the progress in Apple's legal fight with samsung in Europe.

Yesterday the German court issed a statement basically upholding its earlier ruling.

According to Bloomberg, the judge said that "[t]here are a lot of alternative ways to design a tablet device, as the market amply shows", and added that the Düsseldorf court thinks "Apple's EU design rights grant a medium range of protection, if not a broad one." Based on what I've heard so far about the hearing, it looks like a long shot for Samsung to turn that judge around.

There are a number of issues at stake here. But of particular interest is the indication that the Court:

isn't impressed by claims of Apple having misled the court with the photos it presented in its complaint. At some point she told both parties' lawyers to discuss that kind of matter outside but the court doesn't seem interested in it. If the judge really had been interested in a face-saving exit strategy, she might have claimed that she felt she was misled. But that judge appears to be firmly on Apple's side and considers the Galaxy Tab 10.1 an iPad rip-off.

Emphasis Mine.

It is also worth noting that these are only preliminary injunctions. That Samsung's lawyers may yet present evidence that persuades the Court to rule in its favor. Its also worth noting that, in general, German Courts and Law tend to be more favorable to Rights Holders than other Jurisdictions. (The reasons for this date back to medieval Craft Guilds.. but thats another story entirely.)

Lastly, I wouldn't hold up Florian Mueller as an infallible oracle of wisdom. But he does have a pretty good understanding of the way IP law works in the EU.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Yep, and Apple does the same to its competitors when it feels threatened.

For that matter, who can forget the initial "Apple would never make anything that looked like that!" reactions to the first iPhone 4 leaks, even from fanboys... at least until they found out that Apple DID make it.

Oh come on after they found out they started worshiping how great it was.

Florian Mueller's blog is pretty much required reading for people trying to follow the progress in Apple's legal fight with samsung in Europe.

Yesterday the German court issed a statement basically upholding its earlier ruling.



There are a number of issues at stake here. But of particular interest is the indication that the Court:



Emphasis Mine.

It is also worth noting that these are only preliminary injunctions. That Samsung's lawyers may yet present evidence that persuades the Court to rule in its favor. Its also worth noting that, in general, German Courts and Law tend to be more favorable to Rights Holders than other Jurisdictions. (The reasons for this date back to medieval Craft Guilds.. but thats another story entirely.)

Lastly, I wouldn't hold up Florian Mueller as an infallible oracle of wisdom. But he does have a pretty good understanding of the way IP law works in the EU.

Just going to point out Samsung has not been able to really defend itself in court. All it has been allowed to tried is to say Apple evidance was bad and invalid and the judge did not change his ruling based on that. As pointed out before Florian is pretty piss poor and sort of an Apple fanboy.

 

[Bilbo63]

Oh come on after they found out they started worshiping how great it was.



Just going to point out Samsung has not been able to really defend itself in court. All it has been allowed to tried is to say Apple evidance was bad and invalid and the judge did not change his ruling based on that. As pointed out before Florian is pretty piss poor and sort of an Apple fanboy.

Not to be nit-picky, but I believe the judge is a female (based on what has been quoted above) I guess she's a Apple FanGirl then?

I'm sick of this already, and we're just getting started.

I'll go on record as saying I didn't like the initial photos of the iPhone 4 either. I thought the sharper edges might wear holes in my pocket more easily (like coins sometimes do) and make it less comfortable. Turned out it was fine. The iPhone 4 has grown on me the same way the new retro Camaro has. Didn't like it much at first.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Not to be nit-picky, but I believe the judge is a female (based on what has been quoted above) I guess she's a Apple FanGirl then?

I'm sick of this already, and we're just getting started.

I'll go on record as saying I didn't like the initial photos of the iPhone 4 either. I thought the sharper edges might wear holes in my pocket more easily (like coins sometimes do) and make it less comfortable. Turned out it was fine. The iPhone 4 has grown on me the same way the new retro Camaro has. Didn't like it much at first.

either way the floss patent blog is rather poor and not worth much.

 

[Lennholm]

For me, when Apple created the iPod, my feeling was "it's about time!". The iPhone definitely. I absolutely hated every other mobile phone that I ever owned. (and I tried a bunch) It was like FINALLY someone had the vision to do it right! I largely feel the same way about the tablet market though mobile phones pre-iPhone for me personally were painful.

I still use my SE K750i that I've had since 2006. Best phone I've ever used and is a lot better as a phone than iPhone. If I want a smart phone, i.e. a phone that really is a small computer, I'll concede that the iPhone would be better than my K750i. I most likely will get a smart phone soon, and I was seriously considering iPhone 5, but after Apple's recent behaviour I can't do that in good conciousness.

It seems to be some sort of illness. They even create fake accounts just to vote up and down posts.

We should feel bad for people who have nothing in their life that is interesting enough to them to attract their attention. I can not personally fathom spending hours upon hours every day hating on some company or product on the internet. I really do not know what kind of mental or emotional hole you must be living in to keep that up.

There are plenty of products I do not like or enjoy and some I really have some bad feelings towards, yet I spend no time at all on a regular basis hunting down people discussing them and then bashing them at every turn. I am curious as to what people with this illness did before the internet. Were they the bitter and angry letter writers to newspapers, magazines and companies? What form did their illness of inappropriate hatred manifest itself back then.

The best is when they try to deflect their own illness and claim that people who like something and support it are equally ill. Of course this is not true because spending your time pursuing things you enjoy is normal behavior. Spending your time obsessively stalking products and people you do not like is an illness.

It is not like they take an issue with one thing in particular but positively view everything else, these groups of people take the negative position on every single story and discussion that is posted on this forum as it relates to Apple. That in and of itself proves they are behaving irrationally.

I am starting to think this might be a good area for counseling and rehabilitation. This Interhate Syndrome is not uncommon. You see it too often, and the obsessive level we see in many cases is scary. Some of the people here post in every single thread and make scores of posts every single day always bashing and attacking a company and its customers. I know if a friend or family member of mine spent hours a day hating on people and companies on the internet, I would be working hard to try to get them some serious treatment for a serious problem.

Not to mention that constant barrage of negative thoughts and negative attitudes have to color and effect their perception on the world and the rest of their life. Again this is not normal behavior. I would hope they could all get help sooner rather than later. I really do try to encourage these Interhaters to direct their energies towards positive pursuits and areas of interest, but they tend to dismiss it and use it as another place to launch an attack from. I have so many different interests that I can not ever find the free time to ever get to review and research and talk about them as much as I like yet I am fortunate enough to have a lot of free time to pursue such things.

If I could spend 140 hours a week just reading Internet forums for anything I wanted, I still would never reach a point where I was reading forums for a company or products I do not like, let alone do it hours a day like some people here do.

As long as you resort to condecending and insulting people no one will take you seriously, not that I personally ever have.
The hater here is you, hating everything non-Apple and people with differing opinions.

This is entirely disingenuous. Most smartphone makers were still focused on how to make the best slideout keyboard. To claim apple just lucked into this is silly. Apple has always pushed this kind of tech to bring it to market. You seem to be saying that the smartphone market would be the same if Apple never got into it.

That is an absurd assumption.

Thankfully, many phone makers still make the effort to create slide-out keyboards. Typing on physical keys is so much nicer than virtual keys. The on-screen keyboard is only a trade-off to get the thinnest possible phone with a large display.

 

[Bilbo63]

Thankfully, many phone makers still make the effort to create slide-out keyboards. Typing on physical keys is so much nicer than virtual keys. The on-screen keyboard is only a trade-off to get the thinnest possible phone with a large display.

To each his own, I know people who just cannot use a virtual keyboard. I know others who love them. My nephew who was very recently let go at RIM due to that last round of down-sizing, immediately went and bought a Galaxy IIs (very nice BTW) and to his surprise actually loves the virtual keyboard. He says that it's refreshing to have the RIM blinders off.

Women with longer fingernails generally find virtual keyboards impossible.

 

[Lennholm]

To each his own, I know people who just cannot use a virtual keyboard. I know others who love them. My nephew who was very recently let go at RIM due to that last round of down-sizing, immediately went and bought a Galaxy IIs (very nice BTW) and to his surprise actually loves the virtual keyboard. He says that it's refreshing to have the RIM blinders off.

Women with longer fingernails generally find virtual keyboards impossible.

I'm a guitar player myself, so I always find them difficult to use with the right hand, but physical keyboards are only marginally better in this regard.

 

[vrDrew]

The hater here is you, hating everything non-Apple and people with differing opinions.

I think you are mis-understanding the views being expressed here.

For me, at least, it comes down to a matter of rational impartiality, and basic credibility.

It strikes me as being essentially unrealistic to take the view that any single tech. company is ever likely to all good, or all bad. If, for example, someone were to respond to (literally) every story or comment with a post that expressed the theme "Apple is the greatest company ever and everything they do is fantastic!" - I think most rational people would dismiss that person as delusional, and not to be taken seriously. I don't think Steve Jobs himself would say that MobileMe or Ping were the ultimate in the fields they compete in.

I also think that most rational people understand, and are more than willing to express, the fact that many other companies besides Apple have made significant contributions in the tech field. No-one would dispute Google's achievements in the field of online search and online display advertising; Facebook and Twitter in terms of social networking; Hewlett-Packard in printing and imaging technology; IBM and Microsoft in terms of basic computer research and operating systems. And no doubt many more. Even Samsung, I can be sure, has made its contributions in terms of efficient manufacturing and retailing.

This isn't to say that all of us aren't entitled to our opinions. Nor that any of us are free of biases or prejudices. Each of us have lived our own lives, and the views we express, and the beliefs we hold dear, are necessarily going to be colored by own own unique experiences.

But it also seems very clear to me that some people, for reasons I literally cannot understand, feel compelled to overexpress themselves. And it also appears, to me at least, that the preponderance of such people take a decidedly anti-Apple stance.

Look at the "voting" that accompanies stories posted in the New Discussion subforum. Why would anyone vote "down" a story that simply relates a piece of factual news? ie. A court issues an opinion. A company releases financial results. Is the person voting "down" that story taking issue with the writing or journalism involved in passing on the story? Or are they (quite literally) railing against the injustice of a world in which Apple is able to make money?

A suggestion: If one wishes to be taken seriously. If one wants to haves one's views and opinions respected by this (and indeed any community) - then exercise a modicum of restraint. Look at news stories, court opinions, product introductions, etc. from not only your perspective, but from that of the other side. From the perspective of the totally uninterested consumer.

If one wants to be taken seriously, act like a grown-up. Check the tin-foil hats, the paranoid conspiracy theories, and the tired cliches at the door.

We'll all be the better for it.

 

[h4lp m3]

THANK GOD!
I can't wait until all these thieves get their just desert and take their iPhonies out of our stores!

PHONIES!

 

[h4lp m3]

Want to hurt Samsung and do some charity? Take a 500m loss by selling X number of iPads for $100 and you will have market and world domination.

I kinda agree with that.
For as far back as I can recall, Apple products have not only had higher price tags but also an exclusivity factor that no one really likes to talk about. At this very moment in time, the desirability of Apple branded products are at an all time high that Apple could capitalize on gaining market share simply by undercutting the market, thus locking in the future generations and rendering Apple as the new standard.

I'm not saying that's the right move but if there ever was a time to lower prices to gain market share, that time is now while Apple is so highly desired.

 

[Lennholm]

I think you are mis-understanding the views being expressed here.

For me, at least, it comes down to a matter of rational impartiality, and basic credibility.

It strikes me as being essentially unrealistic to take the view that any single tech. company is ever likely to all good, or all bad. If, for example, someone were to respond to (literally) every story or comment with a post that expressed the theme "Apple is the greatest company ever and everything they do is fantastic!" - I think most rational people would dismiss that person as delusional, and not to be taken seriously. I don't think Steve Jobs himself would say that MobileMe or Ping were the ultimate in the fields they compete in.

I also think that most rational people understand, and are more than willing to express, the fact that many other companies besides Apple have made significant contributions in the tech field. No-one would dispute Google's achievements in the field of online search and online display advertising; Facebook and Twitter in terms of social networking; Hewlett-Packard in printing and imaging technology; IBM and Microsoft in terms of basic computer research and operating systems. And no doubt many more. Even Samsung, I can be sure, has made its contributions in terms of efficient manufacturing and retailing.

This isn't to say that all of us aren't entitled to our opinions. Nor that any of us are free of biases or prejudices. Each of us have lived our own lives, and the views we express, and the beliefs we hold dear, are necessarily going to be colored by own own unique experiences.

But it also seems very clear to me that some people, for reasons I literally cannot understand, feel compelled to overexpress themselves. And it also appears, to me at least, that the preponderance of such people take a decidedly anti-Apple stance.

Look at the "voting" that accompanies stories posted in the New Discussion subforum. Why would anyone vote "down" a story that simply relates a piece of factual news? ie. A court issues an opinion. A company releases financial results. Is the person voting "down" that story taking issue with the writing or journalism involved in passing on the story? Or are they (quite literally) railing against the injustice of a world in which Apple is able to make money?

A suggestion: If one wishes to be taken seriously. If one wants to haves one's views and opinions respected by this (and indeed any community) - then exercise a modicum of restraint. Look at news stories, court opinions, product introductions, etc. from not only your perspective, but from that of the other side. From the perspective of the totally uninterested consumer.

If one wants to be taken seriously, act like a grown-up. Check the tin-foil hats, the paranoid conspiracy theories, and the tired cliches at the door.

We'll all be the better for it.

Why did you quote me and claim I misunderstand the views expressed? My post was directed specifically at marksman and his insulting and condecending attitude.

 

[Oletros]

Lastly, I wouldn't hold up Florian Mueller as an infallible oracle of wisdom. But he does have a pretty good understanding of the way IP law works in the EU.

Mmm, no, he even didn't knew how injuctions work in his own country.

Florian Mueller is not the person to read if you want to understand or to have accurate information.

But that judge appears to be firmly on Apple's side and considers the Galaxy Tab 10.1 an iPad rip-off.

This is ********, he said the same thing when the injuction was granted the first time.

Mueller is not an Apple fanboy, he is a MS payed boy and he has been debunked a lot of times regarding the Android FUD he spreads

----------

I think you are mis-understanding the views being expressed here.

No, he didn't misunderstood if he was specifically fingering marksman, he hates everything that is not Apple and he always is insulting people with other opinion different that him.

 

[h4lp m3]

This is terrible. $pple is worse than microsoft now. Someone needs to step in and break apple up into smaller companies or force them to license iOS because right now it looks like they want to be a monopoly.

Seriously! Someone needs to break "achy breaky heart" in to smaller verses and force Billy Ray to license it out to songwriters everywhere. I'm a songwriter and I wrote a similar song and and one of the lines sounds similar, but it's not the same damn song! Here, you be the judge:

You can tell the world you never was my girl
You can burn my clothes when I'm gone

You can tell the world you never were my girl
and burn up all my clothing when I'm gone

Completely different and monopolistic. But guess what? Every time I play it some jackass says that I should stop copying Billy Ray and write my own original music! It drives me crazy because on one hand, yes Billy Ray is my favorite singer and inspired me to pick up a guitar but SO WHAT! My music doesn't really sound like his!!! Here, let me show you another part. You be the judge (Excuse the profanity but it's realative to the discussion)

"DON'T TELL MY HEART, MY STUPID $#%**** HEART! IT JUST WON'T $#$#*** UNDERSTAND!"

Nowhere do I use the words "achy" or "breaky" put people constantly are calling me "Billy Gay" and it's getting on my nerves. We should be allowed to take parts of songs and use them in our own for free! It's not like I took the whole song or anything.

 

[ChazUK]

This is ********, he said the same thing when the injuction was granted the first time.

Mueller is not an Apple fanboy, he is a MS payed boy and he has been debunked a lot of times regarding the Android FUD he spreads

I think this was his finest hour.

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-evidence-supports-oracles-case.html

Caused a furore back in the day but eventually amounted to nothing.

----------

We should be allowed to take parts of songs and use them in our own for free! It's not like I took the whole song or anything.

What like taking samples of songs (known as sampling)? That's a whole different legal minefield.

 

[voonyx]

Seriously! Someone needs to break "achy breaky heart" in to smaller verses and force Billy Ray to license it out to songwriters everywhere. I'm a songwriter and I wrote a similar song and and one of the lines sounds similar, but it's not the same damn song! Here, you be the judge:

Completely different and monopolistic. But guess what? Every time I play it some jackass says that I should stop copying Billy Ray and write my own original music! It drives me crazy because on one hand, yes Billy Ray is my favorite singer and inspired me to pick up a guitar but SO WHAT! My music doesn't really sound like his!!! Here, let me show you another part. You be the judge (Excuse the profanity but it's realative to the discussion) Nowhere do I use the words "achy" or "breaky" put people constantly are calling me "Billy Gay" and it's getting on my nerves. We should be allowed to take parts of songs and use them in our own for free! It's not like I took the whole song or anything.

Just make your music, man. Billy Ray has no right whatsoever to sue you...if he does he's just stifling competition....wait.