Blogger Victorious over Apple in Small Claims Case on NVIDIA GPU Failures

[SirYossi]

Re: Apple reoplaced Logic Board

When apple replaced the logic board when the NVIDIA 8600M failed I have been fore the past 3 months running the laptop 8 hours a day while at work and so far no issues. I wanted to run it over long periods in hopes if the replacement Logic board failed I could take it back and they replace again. So far no issues but might end up selling it letting people know that is has apple replaced logic board, top cover, LCD and Backlight in less than a year with a new battery and powersupply it might help sell it

 

[professorjay]

Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.

So you're confirming Apple is selling a faulty product to start with. I don't get why you're disagreeing.

Unless you're saying it's his fault for buying a product and expecting it to work properly. Which makes even less sense.

 

[SPUY767]

If i own a top-of-the-range BMW M5, and i have a major problem with it, i expect my dealership to jump through hoops to satisfy me.

Except they don't. I had a fuel line fail under my rear seat in my '02, and their response was, "Well, we'll pay to replace the fuel line, but we have to charge for the labor to remove the entire rear suspension and fuel tank to get to the fuel line. You'd be surprised how much crap luxury brands give their customers.

 

[Boisv]

Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.

I try not to lower myself to throwing out insults on this board, calling people names, calling people stupid, things like that. I try to remain civil and stick to discussions, not arguments.

I'm trying extra hard right now.

 

[Mavimao]

I also have a defective 2008 macbook pro that would not start up one day. I closed the lid to walk the dog, I came back home and it would not start back up. I took it to an authorized mac repair center and a mac store, but they both told me it was the logic board and that it would cost me money to fix it.

Needless to say I was pissed after just two years of purchasing it and finding out that it is a KNOWN defective product with a near 100% failure rate. The minute this becomes a class action lawsuit, I will be paying close attention.

 

[SPUY767]

So you're confirming Apple is selling a faulty product to start with. I don't get why you're disagreeing.

Unless you're saying it's his fault for buying a product and expecting it to work properly. Which makes even less sense.

I too was wondering how he got the MBP up to that price. You'd have to max out all the features on Apple's website. In the end, it sounds like he got a grouchy Genius Bar employee more than anything else. I hear many more stories where Apple fixed a computer that was out of warranty for free.

 

[StoneyG]

Has Apple extended their NVIDIA graphics replacement program to four years, as opposed to three years on the 2008 models (assuming his is actually an '08, and not an '07)? Until fairly recently, I had worked at a reseller, and actually saw a fairly high number of customers who had went to the "Genius Bar", only to be told that nothing could be done, when in fact Apple could have replaced the [$1214 for an '07 logic board] part. Yes the '08 has the same GPU as the '07, but the last I heard, it was the '07 models that were being affected at a super high rate.

Anyway, I can sort of understand this guy's frustration. Perhaps he feels like, out of principal, he needs to make a lot of noise over this. He could have found an easier path to his solution. For one, how about trying a reseller. I've heard of A LOT of stories of being told the wrong information from their techs (for instance, the hard drive actually was fine and it was some other issue entirely). He's the one who scoffed at the fact that they're referred to as geniuses, yet like the majority of people out there, that didn't stop him from hitting up that shiny ol' store. Is spending hours upon hours on the phone, online whining about it, in court, etc., the best way to go? I guess for him it was. He could've bought a second-hand model for under a grand, and transplanted the hard drive and RAM (if he could actually be bothered to do something himself). His laptop didn't cost $4500. Sure, with some add-ons and Applecare, and tax and what, it probably came close, but you can't count the Applecare when the thing didn't fail during year two or year three.

No, I'm not an Apple snob, but this guy has too much money and time on his hands. But hey, however he wants to spend his time....

 

[Ubele]

For a while while reading this thread, I was on the side of blogger, but the last few posts have made some good points on the other side: his computer was out of warranty, his AppleCare was over, there was no proof that a defective graphics controller caused the logic board failure, and he said he wouldn't have accepted a new logic board -- only a brand new computer would do. If we take Apple out of the equation and apply the situation to other products by other manufacturers, it puts things into perspective. If some component failed on your recently out-of-warranty 2008 BMW 328i, and it might have been linked to a known problem that occurred in some 2008 BMW 328i's, but there's no way to know for sure (let's assume it's not a safety-related issue that would be covered for the life of a car), would you expect BMW to give you a brand-new 2012 328i?

I should be biased toward the blogger: I have a 2008 15" MBP with the infamous NVidia controller. One month before my AppleCare ran out, my MBP died and wouldn't boot. The Genius Bar people said that the logic board had failed, and there was no way to check whether the NVidia card had been the cause of the failure, so they'd have to charge me the flat-rate $320 repair fee to fix whatever was wrong. It turned out that there was nothing other than the logic board. I'm surprised that a couple posters here had their logic board replaced for free, so the Genius Bar people have some discretion. I'm always very polite with tech-support people.

Circa 1990, I did phone support for the Hayes modem company. Part of my job was to say no to customers who demanded free repairs for out-of-warranty modems. The sad thing was that, if someone raised enough hell and was nasty enough, I was supposed to transfer them to my supervisor -- who would then authorize a free repair. The company figured it was cheaper than the damage the jerk would do by bad-mouthing Hayes on BBSs and such.

 

[HelveticaRoman]

Apple will no doubt appeal ;-)

 

[dukebound85]

I dont think it is unreasonable at all for the 8600 to be replaced by the 8600 via a new logic board and to keep getting replaced.

The guy is NOT entitled to a new machine, especially for one over 3 years old and OUT OF WARRANTY.

 

[Reluctant Adept]

Not accepting the motherboard swap seems unreasonable. I had the same problem with the same GPU and had the logic board replaced when mine failed after 2-1/2 years, and that machine is still running just fine. Even if he was right and the GPU failed again after another 2-3 years that means a 5-6 year lifespan for a laptop.

Honestly I had much more trouble with the mid-2010 MBP + Lion issues. A replacement motherboard didn't solve the issue for me but Apple did eventually relent and provide a newer model as a replacement when I could still demonstrate the issue on demand after the board swap.

Apple doesn't provide flawless products because there is no such thing, but they do generally stand behind their products and provide reasonable options for repair. That's far more than I can say from my experience with Dell and HP.

 

[BMNB1tch]

why would anyone use much less buy a 17"

try laying an iMac on its back and see how long it takes to melt

stick with a 15" or get a mac pro (once updated)

 

[nutjob]

Welcome to the new Apple.

Customer service? Sorry, we don't need you, we have too many customers already.

 

[notabadname]

Disappointing experience, and so atypical to what I have seen personally in over 20 years of Apple ownership, including outside of warranty. Apple should know better. And customer service is one of the critical components of the experience that they get ranked number one on. You would think they would go to great lengths to protect it.

 

[nickn]

And that is why I am done with apple...

 

[jmaxpag]

For whatever it it's worth, I had a 15" 2008 MBP which had a number of problems, including a failed 8600m. After a free logic board replacements, and then after having the power supply die, as well as another issue which caused graphics on the monitor to become distorted under heavy load, they replaced the entire machine with a new (refurb?) model of the same type. After this machine gave me problems with the backlight -- about a week before my applecare was to expire -- I was escalated through the applecare hierarchy, eventually being offered a new current model 15" unibody thunderbolt i7 high-res antiglare. for free.

Given, I did have applecare, and the machine(s) I had were lemons by most accounts. Also I had a HORRIBLE experience with the genius bar at my local store keeping my computer for a full week to try and replicate one of the issues, they gave it back to me without any repairs done, even though the genius told me I was getting a replacement logic board at the time because I had shown him video evidence of the malfunctioning. I also had to make a pretty big fuss and had to talk with the senior applecare guys vs tier 1 people for the last few repairs. Anyway just showing that everyone's experience can be different.

Even so, I think it's ridiculous Apple went to court in this case.

 

[Terrin]

The guy can't sue Apple in a class action because he already sued them individually. Further, I see why the guy is upset, but he knew how long the warranty lasted and bought the machine anyway. If the guy would have pressed the issue directly with Apple's higher ups, he probably would have gotten better results. Finally, small claim judges are elected and pretty citizen friendly.

 

[wharzhee]

And that is why I am done with apple...

it makes me wonder, why are u here then

 

[JAT]

But your comparrison is flawed.. I garauntee you if your BMW is out of waranty and it has a problem, you will see a hefty repair bill.

Actually, this was more comparable to a recall. Which would be repaired, regardless.

 

[doctor-don]

I had a custom 2008 15" Pro and it failed last October. My Applecare had run out 2 months before. But I took it in and they identified the Nvidia problem and fixed and I had it back in less than 2 days. No questions asked, free of charge. Previously, the same computer had a blue striping issue on the left side of the screen, and under Applecare was fixed with a new screen within an hour. I've had great luck with Apple both with and without Applecare, just so everyone knows that there are flip sides to the story.

Usually it's the people with problems, that 0.05%, that we hear from in the forums and blogs.

 

[ouimetnick]

GREAT!!

I have a Early 2008 15" MBP with a failed Nvidia 8600MGT. Apple thinks it should still boot with a dead gnu, but when solder balls melt, and short out, obviously it will not boot.. Who said that even with a failed GPU, a computer can boot. I've never got past a post w/o a graphics chip in ANY computer. the light would flash, or it would be completely dead.

This MBP is outside the 4 year extension, so it is gooched. But if NVIDIA covers the cost for making some ****** GPU, then why the heck is Apple bitching and refusing to fix it. Any computer under normal use should last more than 5 years. I've seen cheap ones last 8 or 9 years. Some notebooks are slow and outdated, so they aren't used, but they were made in 1997... They still boot and function.

A computer should last. Never mind a $2K computer. This 15" MBP is also a BTO with a 2.5GHz C2D inside.

 

[Konrad9]

About time America bought in consumer protection laws, like the UK's Sales of Goods Act and similar Acts in EU countries.

Some states have incredible consumer protection laws. Unfortunately applying them at the federal level would probably be called commu... err.... socialism.

 

[Doc750]

I wish he could collect punitive damages equal to the time the two lawyers are billing Apple for. To compensate him for the time he spent fighting this.

 

[Kavok]

Class Action suit

"Consequently, he is now considering organizing a class action lawsuit to allow those affected by the issue to band together in seeking compensation."

A Class-action law suit won't bring compensation to other users, all it will do is make the lawyers prosecuting the case rich. The users will get maybe $10-$75 for being part of the class.

It sounds like the small claims court is a better option for those needing a full reimbursement for the cost of their laptop and/or repairs.

 

[doctor-don]

For a while while reading this thread, I was on the side of blogger, but the last few posts have made some good points on the other side: his computer was out of warranty, his AppleCare was over, there was no proof that a defective graphics controller caused the logic board failure, and he said he wouldn't have accepted a new logic board -- only a brand new computer would do. If we take Apple out of the equation and apply the situation to other products by other manufacturers, it puts things into perspective. If some component failed on your recently out-of-warranty 2008 BMW 328i, and it might have been linked to a known problem that occurred in some 2008 BMW 328i's, but there's no way to know for sure (let's assume it's not a safety-related issue that would be covered for the life of a car), would you expect BMW to give you a brand-new 2012 328i?

I should be biased toward the blogger: I have a 2008 15" MBP with the infamous NVidia controller. One month before my AppleCare ran out, my MBP died and wouldn't boot. The Genius Bar people said that the logic board had failed, and there was no way to check whether the NVidia card had been the cause of the failure, so they'd have to charge me the flat-rate $320 repair fee to fix whatever was wrong. It turned out that there was nothing other than the logic board. I'm surprised that a couple posters here had their logic board replaced for free, so the Genius Bar people have some discretion. I'm always very polite with tech-support people.

Circa 1990, I did phone support for the Hayes modem company. Part of my job was to say no to customers who demanded free repairs for out-of-warranty modems. The sad thing was that, if someone raised enough hell and was nasty enough, I was supposed to transfer them to my supervisor -- who would then authorize a free repair. The company figured it was cheaper than the damage the jerk would do by bad-mouthing Hayes on BBSs and such.

WAS it (op's MBP) really out of warranty? Other posts here tell us that the graphics card in question was warranted for FOUR years, meaning the product should have been made whole since it was a couple of months past his Applecare warranty period.