Boot Camp and Mac Game Developers?

[BudongBait]

...Game developping is one thing, but what is the next step ?

Many users already mention being happy at the thought of running 3D software on Windows (because the choice is bigger, some apps are better), hence that might be the end of the few 3D apps ported on Os X which were competing on the market.

And then ? What about Adobe ? "You've got a PC, run the Windows version of Photoshop; you've got a mac, reboot and run the Windows version of Photoshop", cheaper for development.

And when all your apps are running under Windows, will you really re-boot that often to just play around with OsX and a few apps ? "Oh crap, I need to retouch this photo again before sending it with Mail, let's just reboot for a second". Uhh

I don't really see this whole business under a good angle. I'd rather see Windows running inside of Os X, for instance, without a reboot needed, that would bring less of a need.

I'm glad with OsX only, because I don't run games on the Mac, but I'm afraid that the Windows-booters help OsX be left behind.

This is exactly why I cried when I heard Apple was going to Intel. Programmers are human. Humans are Lazy. Why develop two of anything if the Mac users can run your windoze version?

Yes you could argue that the situation has not changed from before the switch, but you would be wrong. Once full speed side by side operation has begun, our 3rd party apps will migrate to windows, save Apple's ofcourse.

Sure some of us will still code for OSx (I'll be codeing for Mac it till the day I (or it) dies). But how long will we diehard mac users hold out?

Not long I fear, at best perhaps relegated to a linux like existence.

I weep.

(And yes, I finally registered after being a lurker for god knows how long. That should tell you something too - As I get into my flame proof suit)

-Budong Bait

And clearly I have some learning to do on these new fangeled forum thingies..

 

[Alexander]

Such a good point, but how hard is it to pirate Windows?

Actually really quite easy. Updates work too with a line of Javascript. I'm really surprised to see Apple open this Pandora's Box, though I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later after their hand was forced to move to Intel. Apple did it the smart way by making most home users able to work with only Apple software, so software availability on the Mac side isn't really a big issue most of the time. After today's announcement, I definitely see a lot of people picking up Macs in the short and medium term, but how this affects long term success of the OS X platform is kind of up in the air. I am getting more optimistic about the result the more I think about it, though. True virtualization is all but guaranteed at this point, and even if people end up running Windows apps on Macs running Mac OS X, who cares? Apple cleverly gets just as much revenue from the hardware. It's like, my Mac can do everything your PC can do, and then some, and with more style to boot. Only the absolute worst pennypinchers will stick with the ultra-cheap manufacturers, and that's fine by me.

The key difference between Apple's situation and OS/2, Linux, etc., is that Apple sells good, inexpensive hardware, and has an established suite of highly useful and affordable applications (most of which are included with the hardware purchase anyway).

 

[MacMyDay]

I for one will not be installing Windows on my personal computer, and even for my staff's computer won't bother (for IE6/7 etc). Virtual PC will still be used as a more safe and easier method, as I wouldn't buy a Mac if I wanted to use all of the Windows applications, yet there are certain things you can't get away from, and hence Virtual PC.

Also, I think it won't do the Mac game industry great, but how many people actually own (a legal) copy of Windows XP and own a Mac? It would mean I'd be doing some work on OS X, and suddenly I'd need to close everything down, reboot, go into Windows XP, have a game, close it down, reboot, go back into OS X etc. No thanks.

 

[Bonte]

A mac user will always get a mac version of a game over a pc. The only instance where that wouldn't happen is if he or she already had a pc version for some other purpose which isn't as common.

I will indeed get a Mac game over the PC version but not when its on the market a year or two later and at 50$ when the PC version is on sale for 10$ or less. Game developers need to change there strategy, thats for sure. Sales will tank the first year because of this but it will grow when the publishers anticipates this good and finally treats osX as a worthy platform for gaming.

 

[alienex]

All im going to say is the mac gaming solution wasnt really a solution. Sure id be nice to have all games ported to mac in a timely fashion but its not happening. Boot Camp in my opinion is the best solution to gaming on a mac.

 

[BlueRevolution]

it's interesting to me that most of the game developers seemed to be more optomistic than people here.

I think it's a great thing, in the long term. Apple's market share can only increase from this, which means more pressure on developers to make simultaneous releases of games.

in the short term, good for us... we can now buy 3 year old games for $30 instead of $60, and of course play everything else under the sun. not so good for developers for the reasons mentioned above.

BUT, I can see MacSoft and Aspyr going to game developers and saying we need you to do simultaneous releases now, and we're going to have to charge the same across the board to stay competitive. we'll publish your Mac AND PC releases on the same disk and make sure your games get to the broadest possible market. OK, maybe that's a rather weak idea.

I guess it's now up to the developers to move with these rather interesting times. I know I'd rather play OS X native games, given the choice.

 

[oingoboingo]

Also, I think it won't do the Mac game industry great, but how many people actually own (a legal) copy of Windows XP and own a Mac? It would mean I'd be doing some work on OS X, and suddenly I'd need to close everything down, reboot, go into Windows XP, have a game, close it down, reboot, go back into OS X etc. No thanks.

I don't know about you, but when I play a game, I usually do it for a decent chunk of time...30 minutes at least, up to a number of hours. It's not something that I jump in and out of like I would do with Address Book, Mail or iCal. Does anybody actually use their computer in the way you are suggesting? Hands up all those gamers who enjoy a damned good 3.25 minute session of F.E.A.R or Battlefield 2!! Let's be honest. If you are <cough> "working", and you suddenly feel the need to goof off and start playing games, a minute or two of downtime while you reboot is the least of your concerns.

 

[georeghudson]

Rosetta?

I don't like having two operating systems, I've tried it before and it really messes up your workflow and where your documents/email messages/bookmarks are. Features like spotlight can become useless if it can't find your work on your computer. Why can't apple create it's own 'sub OS' like Rosetta so that Windows programmes and games 'Just Work!' with OSX.

Bootcamp might pursuade switchers to change their computer but it won't change the way they work. Apple should not just give up and provide the competing OS just one short click away, can you see Dell providing that with their exclusive deals with Microsoft that had taken years to negociate?

Mac sales will go up in the short run but the users will not be loyal to the brand (apple's most valauble asset)

 

[ibn]

i didn't read the whole thread but...

wouldn't the ablility to dual-boot windows on mac force game makers to port mac verison of games sooner so that they do not lose that part of the market? why would i what for six months for a game to be ported when i can go to the store now and buy a windows verison. this should be a wake up call for all companies that make mac verison of anything to be quicker and more aware of us mac users. i love osx but i'm not going to wait forever or never for something to come out. just my opinion.

do you hear me image line?! make a mac verison of fruity loops... now!

 

[AlmostThere]

I disagree! Now that you can run windows natively with the support of apple there is absolutely no reason why developers should port any more apps for OSX. Remember the AutoCAD and 3d Studio MAX petitions? No way AutoDesk will ever even consider
Porting anything to OSX anymore!

If Windows users start buying the imacs and MBPs just because they prefer their looks over the Sony and Dell equivalents then it wont be long before OSX users are in the minority.

You do realize that an OS is only a means to an end right? I mean what good is an OS when you have nothing to run on it?

OSX is a very visually pleasing OS, however if time and budget are tight then this kind of luxury is not really a priority. Besides you'll find that not many people are willing to become Apple's crusaders anymore.

Broadly agree with all this.

From the point of view of a new Mac user, coming from Windows, the temptation is there to stick Windows on to the Mac. the only question is whether this is going to be simple enough. I see this right now, with the unused Mac Mini I have given to my mother. It is just sitting there unused for the last month despite her PC being old and knackered because, in her own words, she "just wants to get some work done". Learning a new environment is just too much hassle and effort, and before anyone mentions malware that has simply never been a problem. Stick Windows on there and you have a great little computer than she can use straight away.

From my own point of view, there is a significant overhead in running OS X when I am in Windows based offices. When some time down the line, I come to replace the PB with a MPB, the number one factor determining what OS I will run is what everybody else in my office is running. OS X is great and I prefer using it BUT in a largely Windows office it becomes a real hassle at times. The issue of rebooting would simply end up with me using Windows most of the time. OS X would slowly be relegated to the occasional use. OS X's saving grace has always been that by using a Mac I have to use OS X. Now that excuse is slipping away.

 

[1macker1]

The end is coming..sorta.

I figure before the release of Lepord and Vista, Microsoft going into business with Apple Software division. The setup is just too perfect. Apple has been planning this move for while. We all thought it was no big deal when they dropped firewire support. When they made iTunes avail. for Windows users. MS will take over the SW division, with Apple SW group still doing the work. Apple keeps telling people how they are a hardware company.

Just my .02.

 

[nubrandon]

Goin down with the ship?

For all of us that use OSX, we will continue to use OSX. There are a million reasons we dont use windows besides its usual suckiness. Apples OS market share can only go up from here & will not reverse because of that fact. Mac users are among the biggest wackos out there. Who on this thread would stop using osx a macintel? (rhetorical so cram it fanboys)

The OSX user base wasnt exactly growing in leaps & bounds since OSX users most likely will not cross over to windows the developers will still be developing for the same users. The only acception are the game developers. They wont go down but will most likely be pushed under the osx ship.

 

[748s]

Apple haven't just randomly thrown boot camp out there to see what happens.
Since OS X Beta they have had a plan (whether it was plan A or plan B does not matter now).
I'm wondering where they are going with this.
No native mac games. It will happen.
Adobe will be watching this.
Have Apple decided to let software go and just do hardware?
If a windows version of Final Cut Studio (or any Pro Apps) appear it would look like the end of OS X.
Killed off by Apple.
N.A.B, WWDC and MWSF may shed further light on future directions.
Hopefully Apple see a big future for mac software, including OS X.

 

[c-Row]

3. YES I would play a beta game if it rocked.

Thousands of gamers played the Counterstrike betas back in the days before the official 1.0 version, because it rocked.

 

[bigandy]

Such a good point, but how hard is it to pirate Windows?

I'm serious I don't know because I've never had the need (mmmm apple lifer).

it's about as hard, and as complicated, as eating cheese.

and i'm 100% serious.

 

[Marx55]

Expect market share to grow exponentially, and thus Mac OS X developments of all sorts of software, including games.

That is the move!!!

 

[yukieiri]

hm, i dont see the game developers dying out that quickly, there is still a huge PowerPC based market, who dont have the 'luxury' (and i use that term lightly) of running windows XP on their macs. well, outside of Virtual PC.

fair enough, the PowerPC architecture is being phased out by the intel architecture, but think, there are few users around who still run OS 9.x
even thought its been 'discontinued' ... i would expect it to take as long, if not longer for powerpc macs to die off. there would be some demand for games on OS X.

then of course you have the fanboys who wont run windows on their Mactels =)

the game developers for mac will die out at some point, it'll take a while, but i think it will happen.

 

[gregorsamsa]

Long-term this may backfire for Mac OS X

Read most threads & judging by the wide array of opinions, the future most uncertain for OS X. Sure Apple will sell many more computers. Microsoft will sell many more Windows. But games developers will surely do less ports for Mac OS X. Financially they'll figure anyone that keen on playing latest games will now get Windows, why port? Mac owners never that big on games anyway. Fear is what if non-gaming developers follow suit. It won't happen over night, but the nightmare scenario is that in few years time we see Apple as No 1 PC computer seller shipping not with Mac OS X, but Windows. Horror of horrors.
Can't see myself buying Windows. Rome: Total War is the only game I'd want not currently on Mac .

 

[tony3d]

Not such a good idea?

I don't get it. This just gives the software developers another reason to back out of the Mac market. Why should they develop for the Mac when the Mac runs Windows? Makes no sense. People say, but now you can make a direct comparison. To what? When there is no Mac OSX software to run. It would have made more sense to have Mac OSX run on Windows machines! That would have encouraged more Mac development. The first market to go will be games. Developers have been looking for any reason to pull out of that. Apps like Photoshop, Lightwave, and Maya will pull out and save a ton on costs. Why write for the Mac when the Mac run windows. I can here it now. "Do yoou have a Mac version"? Oh no, but your Mac now runs Windows, just boot up into that.

 

[neymo]

Osx For Pc's

and what about that :
http://www.osx86project.org/

how many layers to stop osx running on PC ?

 

[WeeManDan]

Anyone know the size of the Mac gaming market, whilst I would like to think that it would one day just be developed alongside all the other platforms in the way that XBox, PS2/3 and Nintendo are at the same time. I think the problem will be the delay why wait six months for a Mac version, that just does not make sense and can anyone honestly say they would wait?

 

[Marx55]

The important thing is the interface. Developers will release Mac titles because that is what makes a Mac different. The more Mac market share, the more titles will be Mac native. And expect a huge market share boost right now!!!

 

[hvfsl]

Maybe most of you don't remember. But we have been here before.

In the late 90s, VirtualPC and RealPC allowed you to use your 3Dfx graphics card to play 3D PC games at a decent speed. People said it would be the end of Mac gaming. Well guess what, it wasn't.

I don't see this being the end of Mac gaming ether.

Some are saying that people won't be bothered to wait 6 months for the Mac version if they can get the PC version now. Well the 3D GTA games were released on the PS2 first, and then the PC/Xbox a few months later. Millions still bought the PC/Xbox versions even though the PS2 could be picked up for less than $100 2nd hand.

 

[eXan]

I buy very few games but if Mac games continued to be made, I'll continue to buy them.

It would be bad for Apple if companies like Aspyr did stop producing Mac games. It's just a bad user experience to be forced to boot into some different operating system to run a game, or any other piece of software. What would people new to OS X think about that? It would definitely be a major turn-off. I can just see it now:

Installation instructions:
Windows:
1. Insert CD and double click installer.

Mac:
1. Restart your computer and hold down the option key.
2. When prompted to select an operating system, choose Windows XP
3. Follow instructions for Windows

Yes this is sad. I, however, will buy OS X version of the particular game if I have a choice between Win or OSX versions.

Boot Camp is a good thing for win-only games.

However, its unclear if porting companies like Aspyr will continue to work on Mac ports

 

[minipri]

The fact Mac games cost more

Finally registered but watching macrumors for a while now...

On topic.
Let's all not forget that Mac games are more expensive! THAT will drive people over to the other side if you'll ask me. And by that I mean "gaming wise" ...for there is no other "other" side.

My two cents.

Greetz