Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
LA Times architecture critic slams "spaceship"

In today's Mercury News:

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_18674606?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com (quoted in entirety)

Opinion: Apple's 'spaceship' so far doesn't sound like a model of office building architecture

By John Pastier

Special to the Mercury News
Posted: 08/14/2011 08:00:00 PM PDT

Early in June, Apple's head honcho Steve Jobs paid a surprise visit to the Cupertino City Council. He showed slides of a new multibillion-dollar company headquarters embracing more than 3 million square feet, with about as much space devoted to parking. "It's a little like a spaceship landed," he quipped about its circular shape, adding that "we do have a shot at building the best office building in the world."

That's a long shot. The architectural world is less sanguine than some of the mass media and local politicians. The preliminary concept as shown doesn't support the claim of world's best. It could have been produced by a talented student over a caffeine-fueled weekend. It's unlikely that an isolated suburban megastructure could be the best office building in the world.

What would it take to meet Jobs' goal? Lifting the secrecy that shrouds the enterprise is key.

Apple won't answer questions about the project beyond the fuzzy video of Jobs' slide show on the city's website. For this to be a Silicon Valley paradigm, educating the public about the design's rationale and evolution would seem a given. Apple has met with city staff, but no documents have been made public in the ten weeks since Jobs' public presentation. It's important to know the project's full scope and impact, including how much parking it will create. The present headquarters suggests about 10,000 spaces and 3.5 million square feet.

Next would be to rethink the premise of a circle nearly a mile in circumference.

A building that large would undercut Jobs' goal of human scale -- imagine how un-intimate its 3,000-seat "cafe" would be. An inflexible and unexp[a]ndable circle is the opposite of what's needed in a facility for a constantly evolving industry. If a huge circular shape insured architectural excellence, we'd see far more big, round buildings than we do.

If innovation is valued, does perpetuating a conventional suburban approach advance that goal? How does this arbitrary shape grow out of and relate to its setting and context? Its gigantic, rigid form will apparently swallow up a major street, Pruneridge Avenue. Is it a good idea to devote 160 acres to an office monoculture, or might the project be leavened by adding uses such as short-term lodging for employees and clients, and a first-rate computer academy?

Jobs spoke at length about window glazing, describing it as curved, expensive, and using the world's largest sheets of architectural glass, but he was mum about workplace quality and the employee experience. Will the spaceship provide an alternative to the industry's ubiquitous cubicles? Will it foster staff interaction and creative exchange? Will navigating miles of corridors help productivity?

Here Apple can learn from Facebook. The social networking upstart is remodeling a tech campus in Menlo Park to create human-scaled social spaces and using overhead garage doors to open up spaces to a walkable main street inspired by a Barcelona boulevard. This employee-centered, interactive approach seems more promising than a mechanistic sci-fi vision.

The spaceship will generate its own power and presumably have some green features, but, oddly, the power plant will rely on fossil fuel rather than renewable energy sources. Ironically, Apple's architect, the British superstar Norman Foster, recently designed a fully sustainable, auto-free, zero-carbon city for 50,000 residents, called Masdar, near Abu Dhabi. Clearly, he hasn't been asked to fully flex his ecological muscles in Cupertino.

Furthermore, neither Jobs nor Apple has ever mentioned Foster's name in connection with their project. This makes one wonder how deeply they value architectural distinction.


JOHN PASTIER, the Los Angeles Times' first architecture critic, has been writing about design since 1969 and recently was a juror for a design competition for the 79-story headquarters of the PetroVietnam oil company in Hanoi. He lives in San Jose and wrote this for this newspaper.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
Lost me at "Apple can learn from Facebook."

A "human scale" building is probably of little comfort to those folks who have to go to work in a swamp. :)

It's near the "wetlands", not in a swamp. A lush, vibrant ecosystem.

----------

This is why America is lagging behind in architecture from the rest of the world. No wonder a lot of architecture firms are going out of business.

And what major US daily newspaper employs you as an architecture critic?

Do you suppose that the Great Recession and companies not commissioning new buildings would have anything to do with tough times for architects?
 
Last edited:

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
He says that he's an architect. His opinion does matter more, but I completely agree with your sentiment that one doesn't need to be arrogant to get a point across. Some tact on his part would be helpful ;)

And the people who designed those supposedly awful buildings were not also architects?

If you'd have read the post I was replying to you would have seen that I was responding to arrogance with arrogance. You might not appreciate that as an approach but then we all respond to things in different ways.

What I saw was you responding to someone's opinion about what they consider cool building designs. You think they're awful. So what? Being an architect might give you insight into what constitutes poor use of space, layouts, etc., but aesthetic appearance is more art than engineering.

As for your question about who I am to tell other people what is good and what is awful, clearly everything statement we make - unless it's one of pure fact - is a matter of opinion and I shouldn't have to qualify everything I write by stating that point. Also, I'd like to think that after 7 years of education and an equivalent number of years in practice as an architect I do have some idea of what makes a good or an awful building.

Good or awful in what way? Structural design? Layout/use of space? Aesthetics? I've been to the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame (which you listed as just awful) and short of the early window leak issue, I don't see what's so awful about it. Maybe you'd care to enlighten us with more than just a base word like awful and expound a bit as to what makes it awful (or any of the other buildings for that matter).

This new Apple center looks like a gimmick to me. It's not an efficient use of space and thus traveling around it would take a lot of time. That shape is more suited to atom colliders than anything else.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
boy, are you clueless

Heh heh. Ok. Explain that to the alligators. The good news it's only a 20 minute ride to the Chipotle on El Camino for lunch :)

We don't have alligators - the big problem here is salt water crocodiles.

Look at the attached signs from Cupertino's main beach.

(Just kidding, Cupertino is land-locked. The signs are from Palo Alto's Embarcadero Beach.)
 

Attachments

  • swc-icon.JPG
    swc-icon.JPG
    7 KB · Views: 390
  • swc.JPG
    swc.JPG
    354.9 KB · Views: 55

Eric S.

macrumors 68040
Feb 1, 2008
3,599
0
Santa Cruz Mountains, California
A "human scale" building is probably of little comfort to those folks who have to go to work in a swamp. :)

As one of the people who is vacating the campus that Facebook is "remodeling" (and I actually still work there part time), I can say that the existing campus was quite beautiful and functional without having been "inspired by a Barcelona boulevard."

I'm also concerned for the wetlands if FB fully implements its "vision" for the area. But I'm looking forward to the corporate overreach that always results from these projects.

On a general note, there are so many unoccupied office buildings in the Silicon Valley area, many of them brand new never-occupied, that one wonders why any new construction is necessary at all. (And why, in the height of the recession with no jobs to be seen anywhere, these boondoggles continued to go forward.)
 

cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
We don't have alligators - the big problem here is salt water crocodiles.

Look at the attached signs from Cupertino's main beach.

(Just kidding, Cupertino is land-locked. The signs are from Palo Alto's Embarcadero Beach.)

When it was trying to bite me on the ass, I was too busy running to get a close enough look to determine species :)
 

MattInOz

macrumors 68030
Jan 19, 2006
2,760
0
Sydney
And what major US daily newspaper employs you as an architecture critic?

Do you suppose that the Great Recession and companies not commissioning new buildings would have anything to do with tough times for architects?

Hopefully none.

Critics, as roundly demonstrated by the newspaper quote, can only measure against the past or what has happened. It seems if they had any real thought about the what could be made to happen and how it would work, or not work as the case maybe, they might make decent Architects. They don't which tends to give criticism a bad name the professional critic seem only capable of negativity.

So if the writer is so good why isn't he employed in Architecture/Construction?

I can see how FB approach works for them. Although to note if you have a garage door on your office could you ever work in your office with the door closed. Maybe they are automatic so they open in the event of fire or evacuation event. Having door that size sometimes open sometimes closed is hell on the mechanical system, no matter how eco the system is it would be way over spec to deal with that sort of dynamic space.

Sorry for the aside. The two building show very different approach to the same problem. Spaces that encourage interaction by staff. A lot of company value comes from low rise long buildings so people walk around, and bump in to each other.

The problem is well that makes a long thin buildings that you then need arrange then layout which department goes where. But if you do that then your limiting interaction as the two departments at either end of the building.

Maybe not a issue for FB as the interactions that bring value can be well mapped or they just aren't big enough. Being software only there could be a very linear path to their operations. The Apple model is interesting in that you get to a point walking forwards that you start getting closer to your home space again. In effect there is no penalty for going a little further away to make a contact happen. Which would seem to make a lot of sense given how Apple likes to leverage it's own work to launch new work, and their tight integration of software and hardware. The shape highlights the difference between a software and whole widget company.

Which brings us back to our Critic. Yes he had some valid questions but if he gave more than a moments thought to them they would have told more about Apple than he probably ever wanted to know. Indeed would have told him a lot FB as well. He could have used his article to educate people about design in general not just architecture. Look I'm not bagging precedent it is important but you understand the difference between your client and the one who had the precedent made.
 

maturnip

macrumors newbie
Sep 22, 2008
20
0
got mutants on the mothership.

So wide you can't get a round it... So low you can't get under it...
So high you can't get over it...
 

chris-st

macrumors newbie
Aug 11, 2011
26
0
CA
Where exactly in Cupertino will this be? I used to live around there and imagining this there is...weird to me, guess ill have to visit!
 

ed724

macrumors regular
Aug 1, 2009
227
1
The problem with round buildings is you can't simply put a rectangular shaped object flat against the wall, thus wasting a lot of space. Also what if I need to get to the opposite end of the building but it is raining out so I can't walk through the court yard? I have to walk all the way around the building!

While it sure does look wonderful I would say it is very much form over function.

Wow, how did you get in here? Aren't you the one that said "You can't get cornered in round building" ? DOH !!!
 

firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,109
1,345
Silicon Valley
Which goes to show how 'green' the building is. No one will ever walk or bike to the campus. The property is huge and set apart from the community and teh street grid.

I'm walking distance from that site. I know people who walk to work at the current buildings there. There's a big residential neighborhood to the North.
 

hchung

macrumors 6502a
Oct 2, 2008
689
1
Lost me at "Apple can learn from Facebook."

Agreed. Has that guy actually stepped foot in Facebook's HQ? The place is a mess. It's like somebody took a car dealership, removed all the ceiling panels, covered the inside with paint, and moved in a crowd of frat boys.

Now, I gotta say the place is pretty fun, but that's got little to do with the architecture and more to do with the culture.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.