Did Apple Just Shoot themselves in the Foot?

[ggibson913]

With the new mini, it doesn't appear that a user can upgrade at least the RAM on their own. Most of the reason I was considering the mini is that I could use my own RAM and even change out the HD if necessary. Apple targets the mini at new users but many of them are happy with iMac or Macbook air. I think the mini has lost something with this latest iteration and Apple may have killed off part of it's mini market. What do you guys think?

 

[SandboxGeneral]

It's true one cannot swap out the RAM on a new Mini, but it does appear the HDD can be swapped out for a different one or an SSD. The RAM is soldered onboard now.

I think it's sad because the Mini has so much potential but Apple keeps holding it back but not having user upgradable RAM and no quad-core CPU's.

 

[maflynn]

I think too much is being made regarding the ram issue. Perhaps I've already been cauterized by this as I have a rMBP. Just order the ram that you think you'll need, i.e., max that puppy out.

As for the dual core, that's where I think apple shot themselves in the foot. I just don't understand the logic behind that move.

 

[squirrrl]

I don't think we'll be seeing another quad core for a while. Broadwell-u does not come with four cores. They would have to use broadwell-h which would likely be used in 15" MBP. Also, quad core broadwell-h would be 47 watts if I read it right. While they could redesign the mini, I don't think it would work with the current form.

I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[weaverra]

With the new mini, it doesn't appear that a user can upgrade at least the RAM on their own. Most of the reason I was considering the mini is that I could use my own RAM and even change out the HD if necessary. Apple targets the mini at new users but many of them are happy with iMac or Macbook air. I think the mini has lost something with this latest iteration and Apple may have killed off part of it's mini market. What do you guys think?

The whole mini line will probably be gone in the next few years.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I think too much is being made regarding the ram issue. Perhaps I've already been cauterized by this as I have a rMBP. Just order the ram that you think you'll need, i.e., max that puppy out.

As for the dual core, that's where I think apple shot themselves in the foot. I just don't understand the logic behind that move.

When it comes to the RAM, traditionally, Apple charges a whole lot more money for the same 16GB one could order from any thrid-party retailer. When I ordered my iMac years ago, I bought it with the least amount of RAM Apple offered and then ordered 16GB, to max it out, from Newegg (I think) and saved a bundle of money.

 

[reco2011]

I think too much is being made regarding the ram issue. Perhaps I've already been cauterized by this as I have a rMBP. Just order the ram that you think you'll need, i.e., max that puppy out.

As for the dual core, that's where I think apple shot themselves in the foot. I just don't understand the logic behind that move.

This is the problem I have with non-upgradeable systems. Or at least the way Apple is selling them. In order for a buyer to obtain anything but the standard configurations Apple sells one has to order from the online store. One cannot walk into a store, even an Apple store, and buy a Mini with the maximum amount of RAM. Contrast this to the 2012 Mini where I went down to the Apple store, bought a quad core Mini, and then upgraded the memory post purchase. No ordering necessary.

 

[Crosscreek]

The best solution is to add a headless desk top between the Mini and the Pro with desktop processors and discreet graphics with the option of 32 gb of ram.

This iMac thing is ridiculous for a lot of people that do not need an all in one and want consumer desktop performance for their own displays.

The Mini is now crippled from here on out with BTO options only at Apple prices and no more quad core options.

 

[maflynn]

When it comes to the RAM, traditionally,

I think years ago this was more the case, recently I think the difference is smaller. I'm not saying people, like you could find great deals but the in general I thought the price differences were less pronounced. Admittedly since owning my rMBP I've not been comparing memory prices, but prior to my rMBP I found apple ram to be bit more competitively priced.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I think years ago this was more the case, recently I think the difference is smaller. I'm not saying people, like you could find great deals but the in general I thought the price differences were less pronounced. Admittedly since owning my rMBP I've not been comparing memory prices, but prior to my rMBP I found apple ram to be bit more competitively priced.

I admit that I haven't been keeping up on prices either, but I would still wager one could save money doing things that way, if they could.

 

[markusbeutel]

I think years ago this was more the case, recently I think the difference is smaller. I'm not saying people, like you could find great deals but the in general I thought the price differences were less pronounced. Admittedly since owning my rMBP I've not been comparing memory prices, but prior to my rMBP I found apple ram to be bit more competitively priced.

Apple gauges you on ram like no one else. Can easily get ram 50%+ cheaper compared to the prices Apple charges...

 

[paulrbeers]

Apple gauges you on ram like no one else. Can easily get ram 50%+ cheaper compared to the prices Apple charges...

Really? For the Base Mini they charge 100 for 8GB of RAM. Looking at Amazon, Newegg, etc. They charge $70 for 2x4GB of basic sodimm RAM. That's only a price gouge of $30. Now if you are buying a base mini and taking it all the way to 16GB they charge $300. That is a bit of a gouging as you can buy 2x8GB of RAM for $136. Now on the mid-mini they are "only" charging $200 for 16GB which means your gouging is only about $64. Now I realize if you bought a mini with removable RAM you could always sell the RAM that came with it, but how many people want 2x2GB sticks of DDR3? Most of my upgraded RAM from MBP's and Mac Mini's are just sitting in a drawer "just in case".....

My point being, is that RAM has gone up considerably over the last couple of years (for awhile you could buy 16GB of RAM for like $80), now it's $130+ for basic RAM.

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I admit that I haven't been keeping up on prices either, but I would still wager one could save money doing things that way, if they could.

You can save some.... Sadly 16GB of RAM (2x8GB) is going for $130 at the cheapest I can find for basic slow timings of 1600mhz sodimms. So $200 (if taking the mid-Mini to 16GB) isn't terrible.

 

[theSeb]

Apple gauges you on ram like no one else. Can easily get ram 50%+ cheaper compared to the prices Apple charges...

I take it that you haven't seen the prices of RAM upgrades from the likes of Dell? and +1 to what Paul just said.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

You can save some.... Sadly 16GB of RAM (2x8GB) is going for $130 at the cheapest I can find for basic slow timings of 1600mhz sodimms. So $200 (if taking the mid-Mini to 16GB) isn't terrible.

Yeah, but $70 is $70! If I can save that by buying my own RAM, I'd do it.

 

[fa8362]

Really? For the Base Mini they charge 100 for 8GB of RAM. Looking at Amazon, Newegg, etc. They charge $70 for 2x4GB of basic sodimm RAM. That's only a price gouge of $30. Now if you are buying a base mini and taking it all the way to 16GB they charge $300. That is a bit of a gouging as you can buy 2x8GB of RAM for $136. Now on the mid-mini they are "only" charging $200 for 16GB which means your gouging is only about $64. Now I realize if you bought a mini with removable RAM you could always sell the RAM that came with it, but how many people want 2x2GB sticks of DDR3? Most of my upgraded RAM from MBP's and Mac Mini's are just sitting in a drawer "just in case".....

My point being, is that RAM has gone up considerably over the last couple of years (for awhile you could buy 16GB of RAM for like $80), now it's $130+ for basic RAM.

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You can save some.... Sadly 16GB of RAM (2x8GB) is going for $130 at the cheapest I can find for basic slow timings of 1600mhz sodimms. So $200 (if taking the mid-Mini to 16GB) isn't terrible.

It's higher than that. You're not counting the stock 4GB or 8 GB of RAM that Apple keeps that a consumer would be able to sell.

 

[paulrbeers]

It's higher than that. You're not counting the stock 4GB or 8 GB of RAM that Apple keeps that a consumer would be able to sell.

No I specifically stated that in my post. I pointed to the fact that all of the RAM I have ever upgraded from previous Macs just sits in a drawer. So what value does it have? No one buys 2x2GBs. My Craigslist locally his loaded with people trying to sell their old Mac RAM....

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Yeah, but $70 is $70! If I can save that by buying my own RAM, I'd do it.

I didn't say it was a great deal, but to say you can save 50%+ is incorrect. It's more like 35% and at least if there is a RAM problem Apple is on the hook for figuring it out and not me. That's worth a chunk of that $70 to me.

 

[calaverasgrande]

The whole mini line will probably be gone in the next few years.

that I kind of doubt.
There has been a push for over a decade now towards a thin client model for computing. I am not speaking about Apple specifically but about computing in general. Google's Chrome OS, most enterprises, and pretty much anything in the cloud is already doing this. The Mini makes a great thin client. It is cheap, small, and not a lot of moving parts.
You could easily set up a whole floor of cubicles on these and have your users launch Citrix desktops for email, Office suite etc. Then when they just want to browse the web or whatevs they use the Mac desktop.
No need for massive CPU or GPU.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I didn't say it was a great deal, but to say you can save 50%+ is incorrect. It's more like 35% and at least if there is a RAM problem Apple is on the hook for figuring it out and not me. That's worth a chunk of that $70 to me.

Yep. Everyone needs to determine their own value level and convenience factor on these things. I wouldn't have expected better than 50% savings either.

For me, I would, actually I do, take the risk factor of using my own RAM. So far, over the years I've had good luck.

 

[fa8362]

No I specifically stated that in my post. I pointed to the fact that all of the RAM I have ever upgraded from previous Macs just sits in a drawer. So what value does it have? No one buys 2x2GBs. My Craigslist locally his loaded with people trying to sell their old Mac RAM....

Odd. I just sold 4 GB of 2012 Mini RAM to someone with a 2012 iMac. So, it CAN be done, and someone buys 2x2 GB.

 

[bounou]

I think it's a perfectly nice little machine which is why i ordered one.

Though about just upgrading my base 2012 model but the cost of the SSD and Ram upgrades minus the resale value of the 2012 mini pretty much equals the cost of the new mini.

Yes i was honestly surprised that it had no quad core Iris Pro option and the soldered ram makes very little sense since they decided not to change the design of the machine.

Having said that i think it's important to remember the Mac Mini means very little for Apple at this point, is it even 0.5% of the revenue of the company? I don't think that going forward we can expect much in the way of earth shattering innovation for the mini, it will probably take its design cues from the rest of the mac lineup and that means Apple won't be making a mini that lets users upgrade easily.

 

[ggibson913]

I find it a bit more than ironic that I can't bring my own RAM to the party but must bring my own keyboard and mouse (I know, I can order with the Mac Mini).

I only brought this up because in the past, first I buy the machine, see how it runs in my use cases with the stock RAM, then upgrade as needed. This new model makes that impossible.

 

[weaverra]

that I kind of doubt.
There has been a push for over a decade now towards a thin client model for computing. I am not speaking about Apple specifically but about computing in general. Google's Chrome OS, most enterprises, and pretty much anything in the cloud is already doing this. The Mini makes a great thin client. It is cheap, small, and not a lot of moving parts.
You could easily set up a whole floor of cubicles on these and have your users launch Citrix desktops for email, Office suite etc. Then when they just want to browse the web or whatevs they use the Mac desktop.
No need for massive CPU or GPU.

Or an iPad. That's why I don't think the mini will last much longer. My iPhone 6 is faster at doing simple task such as email and web browsing than my 2006 Mac Pro is.

 

[Count Blah]

It's apple's new green initiative. If you need more power, buy an iMac with a monitor you don't want/need. If you need more RAM, you throw away your mini.

Green green green

 

[Thunderchicken]

When it comes to the RAM, traditionally, Apple charges a whole lot more money for the same 16GB one could order from any thrid-party retailer. When I ordered my iMac years ago, I bought it with the least amount of RAM Apple offered and then ordered 16GB, to max it out, from Newegg (I think) and saved a bundle of money.

I don't think that you understand that the memory they have spec'd to be used is much better then the standard DIMMs are you use to buying now. LPDDR3 memory has a larger bandwidth, but the down side it that is the package is a point to point so Apple must solder it on. However by doing this it allows them to design a smaller more compact system.

On a side note the i7 quad core doesn't support LPDDR3 only the dual core i7 and i5

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I don't think that you understand that the memory they have spec'd to be used is much better then the standard DIMMs are you use to buying now. LPDDR3 memory has a larger bandwidth, but the down side it that is the package is a point to point so Apple must solder it on. However by doing this it allows them to design a smaller more compact system.

On a side note the i7 quad core doesn't support LPDDR3 only the dual core i7 and i5

That may be true, but would a normal user doing normal, everyday stuff like email and web browsing even notice the difference?