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ThunderSkunk

macrumors 68040
Dec 31, 2007
3,852
4,129
Milwaukee Area
On the one hand, good riddance to obnoxious people with no decency screaming into phones in a tight enclosed space.
On the other hand, keep your laws off my body man!
On the other hand, left hand of gov not knowing what the right hand is doing.
On the other hand, don't regulate anything, just put cell freq jammers on the panes.
On the other hand, bring one on in your carry-on.
On the other hand, I don't fly, so I don't care.
On the other hand, I don't use a phone, so I really don't care.
On the other hand, I don't care, so I don't care.
...I guess I just don't care.
 

nostresshere

macrumors 68030
Dec 30, 2010
2,708
308


FCC and DOT are welcome to deal with technical and safety issues.

NO GOVERNMENT AGENCY NEEDS TO DEAL WITH THE PERSONAL SIDE. (like or dislike)

Let the airlines decide and we know where that will be - to keep customers.
 

2010mini

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2013
4,698
4,806
That's not my job. Parents job don't you think?....

You guys need to lighten up and stop attacking me because it's how EVERYONE feels.....

maybe I should've been more specific.

I would pay money to watch you try and quiet your own baby(if that ever happens)when it is crying. THEN you will understand.


And no, not EVERYONE feels that way. You do not speak for the entire human race.
 

BBCWatcher

macrumors regular
Jan 28, 2008
139
153
Maine
There's a relatively easy technical solution here:

1. The only cellular mobile phone service permitted aboard an aircraft would be GSM 2G SMS.

2. The only Wi-Fi data service permitted aboard an aircraft would be HTTP/HTTPS via a forward proxy with periodic ~500 millisecond pauses inserted. That'd be fine for Web browsing, not fine for much of anything else.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
Every plane I've been on this past year have been much louder than our city buses. I just think people are MASSIVELY overreacting to this whole thing. A handful of people talking on a flight is no big deal.

If that is the case you must live in Jerusalem. Wow. Phones ringing every two seconds and everyone talks on the bus there and loudly. Seriously. Very annoying.

Of the 500K plus miles I've flown in my lifetime the only times I've found a plane noisy, other than during takeoff or landing, is if a baby is upset or some rube has there headset jacked up too loud. People usually talk in hushed tones, but mostly keep to themselves after the requisite introductory preflight or take-off banter... if there is any.

I don't think people are overreacting to this because frequent fliers understand that it only takes a handful of uncouth loudmouth passengers to ruin the flight for everyone. Again, there is no dire need for anyone to have a phone conversation on a plane. It's 1-4 hours if domestic surely they can hold off for that long just as they do for smoking. And International. Oh geez. Tower of Babel.
 

alhedges

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2008
395
0
I think I'll ask for some noise canceling headphones for Christmas now.

I don't think you understand how they work. Noise cancelling headphones cancel out ambient noise that does not change, particularly noise with a lot of bass. So it does a great job of cancelling out engine noise (on a plane or in a car), as well as HVAC and general computer and background noise in an office.

The effect of this (and kind of the goal) is that it makes the spoken voice much more clear. If I wear my NC headphones in my office, the HVAC and computer noises vanish. And I can hear people talking in distant parts of the office that I have never heard before.

TL;DR - noise cancelling headphones will make cellphone conversations around you much more clear.
 

japanime

macrumors 68030
Feb 27, 2006
2,916
4,844
Japan
I fly on average of 20+ flights a year and please no talking!

We business travelers want it quiet

And shut your baby up.

You're a terrible parent by letting it cry

I fly quite a bit, too. And the passengers I see and hear yammering away on their phones the most ARE business travelers.

Babies (and their parents) get a pass. Any parent will tell you that it's near impossible to quiet a crying baby, especially when the child is uncomfortable and out of its element.
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
6,473
8,170
Somewhere
That being said, I'm not sure how consistent people would have service that high traveling 400mph--and definitely not over the ocean.

Considering that they install equipment to broadcast the cell signal from the plane itself the service would be quite good so you could have lots of annoying people talking on the phone your entire flight.
 

Z400Racer37

macrumors 6502a
Feb 7, 2011
711
1,664
You. Sound. Exactly. Like. The. Guy. I. Do. Not. Want. To. Listen. To. Talking. On . Your. Mobile. In. Flight.

Useless comment. And I use about 14 minutes a month on my phone. I'm not advocating for my rights, I'm advocating for the rights of individuals and companies to do what they wish with their lives and property.


Oh, the irony. Except U.S. commercial air traffic, which exists primarily of private companies is monitored, controlled, and regulated by the government already. Ever heard of the FAA? Or how the U.S. communications market is regulated by the FCC? In fact the FAA, as a regulatory agent, is the role model for the world. If the U.S. government/FAA bans something, the rest of the world follows. There IS heavy regulation in the U.S. whether you like it or not. There IS heavy regulation in every modern country whether you like it or not. Without regulation, private companies would be ****ing us 10x more than they are now. Government regulation is not always bad and quite often necessary. In general, people don't realize the good things governments do. If you want, I'll give you a list that will amaze you.

No please explain to me what the FAA and FCC are... -___- Feel better? Good.
On to more productive endeavors.

Now, I'm not really sure where you're getting this "FAA is the role model for the world" thing, but just for the sake of argument, let's say that the majority of countries around the world follow our stupid debt laden path to inefficiency and bankruptcy lead.

1. How does this make them or us smart?

2. How does what other people do serve to justify what were doing as moral, just, or correct?

Just as a quick example off the top of my head, I believe Canada is a country that has a privatized air traffic control system, and somehow, I don't see planes falling from the sky. So no, the rest of the world does not just follow whatever stupid authoritarian thought that pops into our heads.

I never disputed that there was heavy regulation in United States. That was the whole point of my original post. The point is that there's way too much government regulation in people's lives. The government does not have the right (morally or constitutionally) to be interfering with people's lives in this manner. The rest of the world is not universally heavily regulated, and I'm sure there are countries you can go to where you can talk on your cell phone on a plane. Judging by the posts in support of regulation like this, I would say that the majority of people wouldn't be stupid or selfish enough to be so rude as to scream on their cell phone in the middle of a flight. Just because there is no regulation preventing someone from doing something, doesn't mean that they're going to do it, it doesn't mean that the government has a right to fill that absence of regulation just because it can get away with it. I see you haven't refuted my quiet movie theater example. Why don't you have a regulation for that? Don't you want your movie theaters to be quiet?

You say that without regulation these companies would be screwing you over even more than they are, but the fact is that they aren't screwing you over at all. When you CHOOSE to take a flight somewhere, you CHOOSE to use their service by your own will. You are valuing their service more than your money, and that's why you were willing to pay them. Don't try to make it out like the screwing you over. You are wrong in trying to do so. The notion that somehow, without regulation of the government, these companies would try to screw you over is absolutely diluted. How exactly do they go about making money by screwing you over? How does screwing you over make their service more valuable to you, and therefore more willing to pay for the service?

To say that companies would somehow "screw you over 10 times as much as they do" without the burden of government regulation is pretty ridiculous. Just because we have an FAA, one FCC doesn't mean that we need, or that it is morally or constitutionally right to have them. It's not like some private institution couldn't be serving these purposes instead of the government. Do you really think the people who work for these government agencies care about who is signing their paychecks? You really think that the only reason airlines don't intentionally crash their $300,000,000 airplanes into the ground is because the government prevents them from doing that? Do you really think the only way for people to be civil on airline is the make sure the government is involved in some sort of capacity? You really saying that people are that self absorbed? Judging by the posts in support of this regulation, it seems to me that people are pretty aware of their surroundings and how they don't want to affect or be effected negatively by those surroundings.

How about that amazing list? Amaze me.



I wish "common sense" actually worked. By your theory we wouldn't need any laws because it is "common sense" to wear a seatbelt, not kill your neighbor, not drink and drive...etc. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who do not have "common sense" or don't act upon it. Even if they are a small minority, we need laws and regulations to keep this minority in check. In the end, we pay the price for their stupidity and ignorance. But that's the nature of laws. We need them in order for society to function.


Not wearing your seatbelt is a decision that affects only you. You have a right to do what you want with you body, so long as you don't initiate force on another human being, therefore you should have the right to decide whether or not you actually wear one. And in many states do preserve you that right.

Making sure you don’t kill your neighbor or drink and drive are legitimate functions of government, because you as an individual do not have a right to put other individuals at risk because of your decisions. We do not need ridiculously excessive regulations for society to function. To say we need excessive regulation to live our lives happily, is exactly the same thing as saying we need excessive force to be able to live our lives happily, because people don’t know what is best for them, and we need to impose what we think is best for them so that THEN they can be happy. People are NOT better off because of the majority of regulations, they live their lives in spite of the existence of these excessive regulations, and their quality of life is not nearly as high as it would be if the government would just get the hell out of people’s lives. It is THEIR life, NOT the government’s. Period.
 

9000

macrumors 6502a
Sep 29, 2013
519
0
Hyrule
You might have more people making a call for the novelty, but it will quickly wear off, especially after they get the bill.

Cell companies would enter the market of in-flight cell service if they removed the ban, I'm certain. Prices would fall. And they'd bring upon us the most annoyingly abused thing since the iPhone.

----------

Not wearing your seatbelt is a decision that affects only you. You have a right to do what you want with you body, so long as you don't initiate force on another human being, therefore you should have the right to decide whether or not you actually wear one. And in many states do preserve you that right.

Maybe states where they'll let you die if you crash without a seatbelt. It costs us all more when people don't wear them.

----------

TL;DR - noise cancelling headphones will make cellphone conversations around you much more clear.

Precisely. Now can we have some voice-cancelling headphones? Or everything-cancelling speakers (not headphones) for that matter? :D
 

hlovatt

macrumors newbie
Sep 15, 2008
20
4
They allow calling, then the airlines will charge passengers an extra premium for seating located in a quiet zone.

I don't see the need for the government to do anything, the market will decide if calls are good or bad or if there are quite zones. What a wast of public money to even consider this.
 

9000

macrumors 6502a
Sep 29, 2013
519
0
Hyrule
There's a relatively easy technical solution here:

1. The only cellular mobile phone service permitted aboard an aircraft would be GSM 2G SMS.

2. The only Wi-Fi data service permitted aboard an aircraft would be HTTP/HTTPS via a forward proxy with periodic ~500 millisecond pauses inserted. That'd be fine for Web browsing, not fine for much of anything else.

Assuming 2G is safe. I know it causes havoc with my speakers, hope it doesn't make a flight any less safe. It would be a shame for any number of people to die over this.

----------

I don't see the need for the government to do anything, the market will decide if calls are good or bad or if there are quite zones. What a wast of public money to even consider this.

I agree EXCEPT that someone with authority must make 100% certain that phones in a flight will not be a safety risk. And I doubt this is true since it would make compliance during an emergency less reliable.

But no need for the government to regulate what airlines decide is preferable for their customers. That's a huge overstepping of authority.

----------

I'm not in favour of government telling me what to do but you have to have a degree of compromise when you're on a plane full of other people. Why are your rights more important than the person sitting next to you? So we need some rules to make it equal for everyone. You could still email or text, you don't have to call.

Why not let the airlines decide that? Maybe if you were out in public, the government should regulate it. But I'd still vote against the unbanning of cell phones in flight because I just hate cell phones and don't really care in this case what the government should do.

----------

I would pay money to watch you try and quiet a crying baby.

You just have to cover the mouth or give him a pacifier.
 

palmerc2

macrumors 68000
Feb 29, 2008
1,623
683
Los Angeles
Then don't fly. At least not on that airline.

...

People need to toughen up and start handling business like this for themselves. Stop relying on the government to take care of the problems in your life for you.

Quite frankly these are the only two parts I read, so I'll comment on those.

1. It's my livelihood to travel. If I don't travel I don't get paid. I travel 3 out of 4 weeks. If I traveled a few times a year like the average person I probably wouldn't care.

2. I do handle the things in my life by myself, I am tough, and I don't rely on the government for anything. I don't like or trust any government, but that is nether here nor there.
 

Rajani Isa

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2010
1,161
72
Rogue Valley, Oregon
Maybe states where they'll let you die if you crash without a seatbelt. It costs us all more when people don't wear them.
Not even (necessarily) then. There are other ways non-seatbelt use can cost the average citizen the fact that if they are at fault, that could make it harder to recoup money that the state/city spends on the accident.

Also, what if they have kids?

Let's not forget what happens if the other person is at fault, and what effects it might have upon them that could have been prevented.

And all that assumes that your flying soon-if-not-already-corpse doesn't do more damage once outside the car.

----------

You just have to cover the mouth or give him a pacifier.

"Plane turns around after other passengers and/or flight attendants stop parent/guardian from smothering crying child". - Gotta love headlines that write themselves, no?

And babies don't always want pacifiers when crying.
 

9000

macrumors 6502a
Sep 29, 2013
519
0
Hyrule
I sure hope that a mother with a crying baby is sitting next to you and she feeds it a bottle to get it to quiet down and then it spits up all over your nice suit. That would be awesome. Then I hope it happens again and again, every week you are traveling for a year. That would be poetic.

Oh boy, you're one of those people with a "baby on board" sign on your Prius, aren't you -_-

----------

But lets not forget that if they are at fault, that could make it harder to recoup money that the state/city spends on the accident.

Also, what if they have kids?

Let's not forget what happens if the other person is at fault, and what effects it might have upon them that could have been prevented.

And all that assumes that your flying soon-if-not-already-corpse doesn't do more damage once outside the car.

Yeah, that too. It's basically unrealistic to expect the state to not be interested in whether or not you are wearing a seatbelt. Why NOT wear it anyway?

"Plane turns around after other passengers and/or flight attendants stop parent/guardian from smothering crying child". - Gotta love headlines that write themselves, no?

And babies don't always want pacifiers when crying.

They've got noses for a reason. Sure they don't always want the pacifier, but every flight I'm on, someone has a crying baby and makes absolutely no effort to make him stop.

----------

Possibly set up a designated phone call portion of the plane only available when the seatbelt signs have been turned off?

Sure, the airlines can do that. I hope they do if the ban gets lifted (or better yet, just not allow the phones at all). But from now on, I'm just going to pretend that I'm in favor of government regulation because I hate cell phones. As of NOW.
----
Praise be to the Democrats!
 

Rajani Isa

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2010
1,161
72
Rogue Valley, Oregon
Right. It's reasonable to expect the same guy that totes on a way-too-big for the overhead compartment bag then yells at the stewardess for insisting he gate check it then sits in his seat and monopolizes the arm rests as he scarfs down his nasty smelling pastrami sandwich to respect a low voice & quick call policy. :rolleyes:

It would require the airlines being willing to piss such people off, and making sure the flight attendants are willing to step in if need be.

----------

They've got noses for a reason. Sure they don't always want the pacifier, but every flight I'm on, someone has a crying baby and makes absolutely no effort to make him stop.

At the point of them being a "baby" they are quite small. makes it hard to not cover their nose and mouth at the same time - much less not appear to.

I'll agree parents need to make an effort to get the child to stop, but not suffocate the kid.
 

BBCWatcher

macrumors regular
Jan 28, 2008
139
153
Maine
Assuming 2G is safe. I know it causes havoc with my speakers, hope it doesn't make a flight any less safe. It would be a shame for any number of people to die over this.

Of course it is. GSM microcells are already broadcasting aboard many of the world's flights, and GSM towers broadcast near every major (and most minor) airports in the world with aircraft arriving and departing. The safety of GSM microcells aboard aircraft hasn't been an issue for many, many years now.

The only question now is a social one: whether airline passengers ought to be able to talk on their mobile phones, the same as train and bus passengers do today -- and passengers on many of the world's airlines. And passengers on U.S. airlines with air phones which have existed for something like 20 years.

OK, if the social answer is no, then do what many airlines do: configure the on board GSM microcells so that only SMS is supported. And configure the Wi-Fi aboard so that only forward proxy Web browsing is supported. If you offer "bursty" data transmission aboard an aircraft then voice over IP isn't going to work very well, and the social problem is solved.

This is really quite simple.
 

nia820

macrumors 68020
Jun 27, 2011
2,131
1,980
I fly on average of 20+ flights a year and please no talking!

We business travelers want it quiet

And shut your baby up.

You're a terrible parent by letting it cry

i seriously hope you are not serious. Some babies ears quite sensitive to the pressure in the air so when their ears start popping they don't know what's happening to them so they start to cry because they can't talk. That's what babies do when they are uncomfortable, they cry. No parent just lets their baby cry.

I'm not even a parent but it pisses me off when people like you spew such hate for babies on planes. i understand being pissed at a 7 year who keeps running up and down the aisles because that is just bad parenting. But complaining about a baby crying is just low.
 

chipdouglas

macrumors newbie
Sep 8, 2010
2
0
Do people really imagine that 200 people will simultaneously be yelling at their iPhones for 45 minutes x3 calls per flight?

Such ludicrous exaggerations on here.

Most people I hear on their cell phones are chatting quietly and briefly, and I--and you too--run into them EVERY DAY in cabs, buses, trains, work, school, etc. The idea that this is just a bridge too far is laughable.

It would be more obnoxious than silence, but not the "hell" (!) that some people are describing.

I wouldn't make calls in the air, but I would love to not have to be scolded by imperious flight attendants telling me to power down my podcasts, crossword puzzles or text messages.
 

freedumbfighter

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2013
16
0
Useless comment. And I use about 14 minutes a month on my phone. I'm not advocating for my rights, I'm advocating for the rights of individuals and companies to do what they wish with their lives and property.




No please explain to me what the FAA and FCC are... -___- Feel better? Good.
On to more productive endeavors.

Now, I'm not really sure where you're getting this "FAA is the role model for the world" thing, but just for the sake of argument, let's say that the majority of countries around the world follow our stupid debt laden path to inefficiency and bankruptcy lead.

1. How does this make them or us smart?

2. How does what other people do serve to justify what were doing as moral, just, or correct?

Just as a quick example off the top of my head, I believe Canada is a country that has a privatized air traffic control system, and somehow, I don't see planes falling from the sky. So no, the rest of the world does not just follow whatever stupid authoritarian thought that pops into our heads.

I never disputed that there was heavy regulation in United States. That was the whole point of my original post. The point is that there's way too much government regulation in people's lives. The government does not have the right (morally or constitutionally) to be interfering with people's lives in this manner. The rest of the world is not universally heavily regulated, and I'm sure there are countries you can go to where you can talk on your cell phone on a plane. Judging by the posts in support of regulation like this, I would say that the majority of people wouldn't be stupid or selfish enough to be so rude as to scream on their cell phone in the middle of a flight. Just because there is no regulation preventing someone from doing something, doesn't mean that they're going to do it, it doesn't mean that the government has a right to fill that absence of regulation just because it can get away with it. I see you haven't refuted my quiet movie theater example. Why don't you have a regulation for that? Don't you want your movie theaters to be quiet?

You say that without regulation these companies would be screwing you over even more than they are, but the fact is that they aren't screwing you over at all. When you CHOOSE to take a flight somewhere, you CHOOSE to use their service by your own will. You are valuing their service more than your money, and that's why you were willing to pay them. Don't try to make it out like the screwing you over. You are wrong in trying to do so. The notion that somehow, without regulation of the government, these companies would try to screw you over is absolutely diluted. How exactly do they go about making money by screwing you over? How does screwing you over make their service more valuable to you, and therefore more willing to pay for the service?

To say that companies would somehow "screw you over 10 times as much as they do" without the burden of government regulation is pretty ridiculous. Just because we have an FAA, one FCC doesn't mean that we need, or that it is morally or constitutionally right to have them. It's not like some private institution couldn't be serving these purposes instead of the government. Do you really think the people who work for these government agencies care about who is signing their paychecks? You really think that the only reason airlines don't intentionally crash their $300,000,000 airplanes into the ground is because the government prevents them from doing that? Do you really think the only way for people to be civil on airline is the make sure the government is involved in some sort of capacity? You really saying that people are that self absorbed? Judging by the posts in support of this regulation, it seems to me that people are pretty aware of their surroundings and how they don't want to affect or be effected negatively by those surroundings.

How about that amazing list? Amaze me.






Not wearing your seatbelt is a decision that affects only you. You have a right to do what you want with you body, so long as you don't initiate force on another human being, therefore you should have the right to decide whether or not you actually wear one. And in many states do preserve you that right.

Making sure you don’t kill your neighbor or drink and drive are legitimate functions of government, because you as an individual do not have a right to put other individuals at risk because of your decisions. We do not need ridiculously excessive regulations for society to function. To say we need excessive regulation to live our lives happily, is exactly the same thing as saying we need excessive force to be able to live our lives happily, because people don’t know what is best for them, and we need to impose what we think is best for them so that THEN they can be happy. People are NOT better off because of the majority of regulations, they live their lives in spite of the existence of these excessive regulations, and their quality of life is not nearly as high as it would be if the government would just get the hell out of people’s lives. It is THEIR life, NOT the government’s. Period.

What I meant was.... you are one of the obnoxious ranting people (as demonstrated by your looooooooooooong & plodding posts) that NOBODY wants to hear on a phone... on a plane, where they cannot escape from you.
You are advocating talking on cell phone on a crowded plane for the same reason I'm against it- you belong to a group that will go on and on and on, not caring if you're annoying others, while I'm part of the group that would prefer as much peace and quiet on my flight as possible & I'm pleased to offer it to others as well.
 

MacOG728893

macrumors 68000
Sep 10, 2010
1,715
114
Orange County CA
What if they made a designated area where one could place a quick call? This may be hard to control properly, but it is certainly a possible solution for someone who might need to make a call.

On a side note. Whose phone works on plane anyways?
 
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