Finding my iMac's weak spot? ( performance )

[leman]

Well, I'm sorry, but you probably have bought the "base" iMac with the 9400M integrated graphics card. This iMac was never meant to play video games as this particular GPU is simply too weak to render appropriate 3D graphics at that screen resolution. In regards to that, the base iMac is intended for office/multimedia/internet work only.

Anyway, it is possible to play games in acceptable quality on an iMac, but you really need the high-end model which includes a reasonable GPU.

 

[The Hockaday.]

It has the ATI Radeon HD 4670.

 

[The Hockaday.]

They're are plenty of benchmarks out there, you can just download (a safe and genuine) one and run it. Not sure about your second question about performance monitor readings.

They'll run faster if you use a lower resolution.

I'll download the Unigine Heaven 2.5 DX11 benchmark and run that at 2560x1440 and you should do the same too, and then we'll see the difference. I can't think of any other benchmarks right now, unless you've got any games with built in benchmarks? Like Just Cause 2 maybe?

Could you post a link to that? I googled it but I'm not sure if I'm looking at the correct thing.

 

[Drewbie]

even then 512mb of dedicated memory just wont cut it on high res, high poly games

i know the games are 6 years old, but models inside the games have more than likely been updated and the poly count has more than likely increased quite a bit...

 

[The Hockaday.]

Here are the result under osx... switching over to win 7 and booting up the game and such now. Platform: Mac OS X x86 (64-bit)
Compiler: GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5494)
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.6.7 (Build 10J869)
Model: iMac (Late 2009)
Motherboard: Apple Inc. Mac-F2268DC8
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7600 @ 3.06GHz
Processor ID: GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10
Logical Processors: 2
Physical Processors: 1
Processor Frequency: 3.06 GHz
L1 Instruction Cache: 32.0 KB
L1 Data Cache: 32.0 KB
L2 Cache: 3.00 MB
L3 Cache: 0.00 B
Bus Frequency: 1.06 GHz
Memory: 4.00 GB
Memory Type: 0 MHz RAM
SIMD: 1
BIOS: Apple Inc. IM101.88Z.00CC.B00.0909031926
Processor Model: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7600 @ 3.06GHz
Processor Cores: 2

Integer (Score: 4157)
Blowfish single-threaded scalar -- 2003, , 88.0 MB/sec
Blowfish multi-threaded scalar -- 4047, , 165.8 MB/sec
Text Compress single-threaded scalar -- 2746, , 8.78 MB/sec
Text Compress multi-threaded scalar -- 4989, , 16.4 MB/sec
Text Decompress single-threaded scalar -- 2380, , 9.78 MB/sec
Text Decompress multi-threaded scalar -- 4579, , 18.2 MB/sec
Image Compress single-threaded scalar -- 2634, , 21.8 Mpixels/sec
Image Compress multi-threaded scalar -- 4980, , 41.9 Mpixels/sec
Image Decompress single-threaded scalar -- 2661, , 44.7 Mpixels/sec
Image Decompress multi-threaded scalar -- 4891, , 79.8 Mpixels/sec
Lua single-threaded scalar -- 4874, , 1.88 Mnodes/sec
Lua multi-threaded scalar -- 9109, , 3.50 Mnodes/sec

Floating Point (Score: 6426)
Mandelbrot single-threaded scalar -- 2279, , 1.52 Gflops
Mandelbrot multi-threaded scalar -- 4428, , 2.90 Gflops
Dot Product single-threaded scalar -- 4127, , 1.99 Gflops
Dot Product multi-threaded scalar -- 8408, , 3.83 Gflops
Dot Product single-threaded vector -- 3205, , 3.84 Gflops
Dot Product multi-threaded vector -- 7193, , 7.48 Gflops
LU Decomposition single-threaded scalar -- 1769, , 1.57 Gflops
LU Decomposition multi-threaded scalar -- 3308, , 2.90 Gflops
Primality Test single-threaded scalar -- 5936, , 886.6 Mflops
Primality Test multi-threaded scalar -- 8486, , 1.58 Gflops
Sharpen Image single-threaded scalar -- 6405, , 14.9 Mpixels/sec
Sharpen Image multi-threaded scalar -- 11789, , 27.2 Mpixels/sec
Blur Image single-threaded scalar -- 8010, , 6.34 Mpixels/sec
Blur Image multi-threaded scalar -- 14628, , 11.5 Mpixels/sec

Memory (Score: 2915)
Read Sequential single-threaded scalar -- 4217, , 5.16 GB/sec
Write Sequential single-threaded scalar -- 2336, , 1.60 GB/sec
Stdlib Allocate single-threaded scalar -- 3022, , 11.3 Mallocs/sec
Stdlib Write single-threaded scalar -- 2353, , 4.87 GB/sec
Stdlib Copy single-threaded scalar -- 2649, , 2.73 GB/sec

Stream (Score: 1509)
Stream Copy single-threaded scalar -- 1666, , 2.28 GB/sec
Stream Copy single-threaded vector -- 1659, , 2.15 GB/sec
Stream Scale single-threaded scalar -- 1645, , 2.13 GB/sec
Stream Scale single-threaded vector -- 1403, , 1.89 GB/sec
Stream Add single-threaded scalar -- 1276, , 1.93 GB/sec
Stream Add single-threaded vector -- 1568, , 2.18 GB/sec
Stream Triad single-threaded scalar -- 1606, , 2.22 GB/sec
Stream Triad single-threaded vector -- 1250, , 2.34 GB/sec

 

[MythicFrost]

It has the ATI Radeon HD 4670.

Oh, I thought you had the 4850M because you have a 27" iMac.

Could you post a link to that? I googled it but I'm not sure if I'm looking at the correct thing.

Here it is: link

I was thinking we had the same graphics card but we don't, so the benchmark probably won't be as helpful (if at all) as I thought it would be. Still happy to do it though if you want.

This is your graphics card: link

The frame rates listed won't necessarily be at 2560x1440 though (more likely 720p - 1080p), so take that into account.

 

[The Hockaday.]

Ok here are the results from geekbench on win 7 while running eq2 at high performance in full screen at 2560 x 1440 res.

Integer Processor integer performance 3228 2554
Floating Point Processor floating point performance 2763
Memory Memory performance 1658
Stream Memory bandwidth performance 1259

System Information
Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate
Model Apple Inc. iMac10,1 Motherboard Apple Inc. Mac-F2268DC8
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7600 @ 3.06GHz
Processor ID GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10
Processors 1 Threads 2
Cores 2 Memory 3.98 GB 1067 MHz
Processor Frequency 3.06 GHz Bus Frequency 266 MHz
L1 Instruction Cache 32.0 KB L1 Data Cache 32.0 KB
L2 Cache 3.00 MB L3 Cache 0.00 B
BIOS Apple Inc. IM101.88Z.00CC.B00.0909031926

Integer Section
Section Score 3228
Blowfish
single-threaded scalar 1727
75.9 MB/sec
Blowfish
multi-threaded scalar 2669
109.4 MB/sec
Text Compress
single-threaded scalar 2246
7.18 MB/sec
Text Compress
multi-threaded scalar 3068
10.1 MB/sec
Text Decompress
single-threaded scalar 2533
10.4 MB/sec
Text Decompress
multi-threaded scalar 3629
14.5 MB/sec
Image Compress
single-threaded scalar 2438
20.1 Mpixels/sec
Image Compress
multi-threaded scalar 3767
31.7 Mpixels/sec
Image Decompress
single-threaded scalar 2188
36.7 Mpixels/sec
Image Decompress
multi-threaded scalar 4462
72.8 Mpixels/sec
Lua
single-threaded scalar 4165
1.60 Mnodes/sec
Lua
multi-threaded scalar 5855
2.25 Mnodes/sec

Floating Point Section
Section Score 2763
Mandelbrot
single-threaded scalar 1890
1.26 Gflops
Mandelbrot
multi-threaded scalar 2625
1.72 Gflops
Dot Product
single-threaded scalar 1213
586.4 Mflops
Dot Product
multi-threaded scalar 2109
961.3 Mflops
Dot Product
single-threaded vector 3119
3.74 Gflops
Dot Product
multi-threaded vector 5854
6.09 Gflops
LU Decomposition
single-threaded scalar 2318
2.06 Gflops
LU Decomposition
multi-threaded scalar 4883
4.28 Gflops
Primality Test
single-threaded scalar 3606
538.7 Mflops
Primality Test
multi-threaded scalar 3847
713.9 Mflops
Sharpen Image
single-threaded scalar 583
1.36 Mpixels/sec
Sharpen Image
multi-threaded scalar 797
1.84 Mpixels/sec
Blur Image
single-threaded scalar 2430
1.92 Mpixels/sec
Blur Image
multi-threaded scalar 3414
2.69 Mpixels/sec

Memory Section
Section Score 1658
Read Sequential
single-threaded scalar 3091
3.79 GB/sec
Write Sequential
single-threaded scalar 1768
1.21 GB/sec
Stdlib Allocate
single-threaded scalar 1933
7.21 Mallocs/sec
Stdlib Write
single-threaded scalar 575
1.19 GB/sec
Stdlib Copy
single-threaded scalar 926
978.4 MB/sec

Stream Section
Section Score 1259
Stream Copy
single-threaded scalar 1149
1.57 GB/sec
Stream Copy
single-threaded vector 1132
1.47 GB/sec
Stream Scale
single-threaded scalar 1197
1.55 GB/sec
Stream Scale
single-threaded vector 1233
1.67 GB/sec
Stream Add
single-threaded scalar 1159
1.75 GB/sec
Stream Add
single-threaded vector 1412
1.97 GB/sec
Stream Triad
single-threaded scalar 1527
2.11 GB/sec
Stream Triad
single-threaded vector 1264
2.37 GB/sec


Note: It bogs down when there are a lot of other people. Thanks everyone for the info etc, probably nothing I can do to increase performance but thought I'd ask.

 

[The Hockaday.]

and the results fron the unigine benchmark

Powered by Unigine Engine
Heaven Benchmark v2.5 Basic
FPS:
3.9
Scores:
98
Min FPS:
2.8
Max FPS:
7.6
Hardware
Binary:
Windows 32bit Visual C++ 1600 Release Mar 1 2011
Operating system:
Windows 7 (build 7601, Service Pack 1) 64bit
CPU model:
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7600 @ 3.06GHz
CPU flags:
3044MHz MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3 SSSE3 SSE41 HTT
GPU model:
ATI Radeon HD 4670 8.681.0.0 256Mb
Settings
Render:
direct3d11
Mode:
2560x1440 fullscreen
Shaders:
high
Textures:
high
Filter:
trilinear
Anisotropy:
4x
Occlusion:
enabled
Refraction:
enabled
Volumetric:
enabled
Tessellation: disabled
Unigine Corp. © 2005-2011

 

[InuNacho]

Well, technically, you can, but it's not easy and is quite expensive. http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Apple/6615578/

That pretty cool. I thought only the original iMacs had upgradable graphics.

 

[theSeb]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

The problem here is that you're using the wrong tool for the job. Your iMac is not the right tool. You're trying to use a drill driver when you need a hammer drill.

 

[MythicFrost]

and the results fron the unigine benchmark

Can you re-run the test with the same settings as mine? My results:

 

[The Hockaday.]

hrmm...won't let me insert the picture, so here is the results.Heaven Benchmark v2.5 Basic
FPS:
12.5
Scores:
314
Min FPS:
6.4
Max FPS:
23.4
Hardware
Binary:
Windows 32bit Visual C++ 1600 Release Mar 1 2011
Operating system:
Windows 7 (build 7601, Service Pack 1) 64bit
CPU model:
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7600 @ 3.06GHz
CPU flags:
3045MHz MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3 SSSE3 SSE41 HTT
GPU model:
ATI Radeon HD 4670 8.681.0.0 256Mb
Settings
Render:
direct3d11
Mode:
2560x1440 fullscreen
Shaders:
high
Textures:
high
Filter:
trilinear
Anisotropy:
16x
Occlusion: disabled
Refraction: disabled
Volumetric: disabled
Tessellation: disabled

 

[MythicFrost]

hrmm...won't let me insert the picture, so here is the results.Heaven Benchmark v2.5 Basic

Mmm, I think your GPU is bottlenecking you the most, as others have said. You're getting about half the performance than I, perhaps a little less. There isn't really anything you can do to speed it up dramatically. Keep in mind if you do overclock it, you risk damaging it and I'm pretty sure you'll void your warranty.

I'm trying to sell my machine before the 2011 models come out as I'd like to upgrade to the newer model. 3.4GHz i7 and 6950/6970M 2GB would be nice

Perhaps you'll want to do that also. If you do, be sure to grab the model with the best GPU and a quad-core CPU to avoid these problems. The 27" has a really high resolution screen, so you'll want something powerful.

Otherwise you could, as you've said, build yourself a PC.

 

[Badger^2]

Well, I'm sorry, but you probably have bought the "base" iMac with the 9400M integrated graphics card.

OP clearly stated he had a "3.06 ghz intel core 2 duo 27" iMac" in his first post.

Before guessing, you should familiarize yourself with the iMacs made and their specs.

this is a handy site: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/index-imac.html

OPs iMac: The iMac "Core 2 Duo" 3.06 27-Inch Aluminum (Late 2009) features a 3.06 GHz Intel "Core 2 Duo" processor (E7600), with two independent processor "cores" on a single silicon chip, a 3 MB shared level 2 cache, a 1066 MHz system bus, 4 GB of RAM (1066 MHz PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM), a 1 TB (7200 RPM) hard drive, a vertically-mounted slot-loading DVD±R DL "SuperDrive", and ATI Radeon HD 4670 graphics with 256 MB of dedicated GDDR3 memory.

http://barefeats.com/imac10o.html

 

[archer75]

I find my iMac runs games quite well, even in Crysis: Warhead I can get 40 FPS on low at 2560x1440. Crysis 2 I can get 45-70 FPS on lowest settings at 1280x720. I've got the 09 27" iMac w/ an i7 @ 2.8GHz, 2TB HD, and 12GB 1066MHz RAM, I'm running Windows Ultimate 64-bit w/ page file turned off.

If you have to run on low settings and lower the resolution then that's not running "games quite well". Quite the opposite. Though I understand it's subjective.

I refuse to ever lower the resolution of any game below the native resolution of whatever monitor I am using. They look like ass. Nor will I run anything below high settings. If the game won't run like that then in my opinion it's unplayable. And i'll purchase what I need to get it to run right. No point in having a beautiful 27" display if you have to down rez everything. Here's hoping they put in a 6970m in the new imacs!

 

[MythicFrost]

If you have to run on low settings and lower the resolution then that's not running "games quite well". Quite the opposite. Though I understand it's subjective.

I refuse to ever lower the resolution of any game below the native resolution of whatever monitor I am using. They look like ass. Nor will I run anything below high settings. If the game won't run like that then in my opinion it's unplayable. And i'll purchase what I need to get it to run right. No point in having a beautiful 27" display if you have to down rez everything. Here's hoping they put in a 6970m in the new imacs!

You're using my two examples of Crysis -- which is one of the toughest games around -- as my basis for games running "quite well". The majority of games I play I can play on High or Very High at native resolution with ~25 FPS.

Crysis: Warhead I can play at ~40 FPS on low or ~20 FPS on medium. Crysis 2 I can play at 1080p @ ~30 FPS or 720p @ ~60 FPS. Crysis 2 is the only game I play at a lower resolution, and I only do so because it still looks brilliant unlike most games at lower resolutions -- I can hardly tell.

I consider this quite good for a two year old all-in-one that I didn't expect to be able to play much at all (coming from a GTX 285).

 

[CHSeifert]

New iMacs can run most games, but as soon as the iMacs are older than 2-3 years, they suck at most demanding new games - it's as honest and simple as that answer

iMacs are not aimed at gamers, but aimed at people, who just want a good looking all-in one no nonsens machine in their bedroom or even in their living room for browsing the inet and some office programs or mild photo editing. For that, the iMac is great !

BUT for POWER USERS - I say stay away !! The air fan outtake is a joke - a small 2" hole covered by the back of the stand to make it look good, but perform terrible when it comes to ventilation.

The noise level of an imac is set low, so the average user won't hear it.
But for hardcore users - gamers, video editors and webdesigners (who often have Photoshop, Indesign, Dreamweaver, Aperture and Coda open at the same) the iMac is a noisy all in one machine with bad ventilation, small fans, small GPU and very little room for SSD upgrades.

So any kind of power users should stay clear of the iMac and maybe look at the MacPro (but the MacPro is also pretty outdated machine curently because of lack of SATA 3, lack of proper fast GPU for games and heavy video and webdesign and lack of new CPU technology).

So my honest advice is to build yourself a new HIGH END PC.
You can get a TOTAL POWER HOUSE rig for the same price as an outdated MacPro will cost you. Only minus is the lack of the nice OSx.

But the PC you can build for the price of a cheap MacPro could have an OCZ Revodrive x3 PCI Express SSD card for Win 7 (600-700 MB/sec REAL TIME TRANSFER), Vertex 3 SSD for programs (4-500 MB/sec) and maybe a smaller SSD or a hybrid Seagate Momentus XT for data files and a 3 TB HDD for music and movies, a top i7 2600 K Sandy Bridge CPU, a 1.000 watt gold plated power supply with a low noise 140 mm fan, a Lian LI Tower with low noise 140 mm fans that moves 8 times the air the fan in an imac will move, but still is less audible at the same time, a High End mother board with all the connections you can dream of (USB 3, Firewire 800/1600, Thunderbolt etc.) and great fast Radeon 6970 2 GB Ram GPU card or the GTX 280 Nvidia GPU card, 16 or even 32 GB DDR 1600 Mhz RAM, best optical drives from Pioneer and Plextor - best stuff from start to finish, and only thing missing would be OSx - and for some this is a deal breaker.

Not for me - as I honestly prefer Office pro for Win 7 and the entire Adobe master collection runs better on Win 7 than in OSx in my honest opinion.

But then you will miss the great programs for Mac OSx only - Coda, Espresso, Aperture and a lot of other small very nice programs, that I love.
So I simply have chosed to have one of each machine - so I can get the best from both worlds

But you need a computer for games - so my advice is go build yourself a MONSTER SelfBuilder and watch Win 7 open from scratch in 15 seconds on a OCZ Revodrive PCI Express card and play games at 100 fps with no problems at all in 1920X1200 via a 6970 or GTX 280 GPU card

 

[Badger^2]

iMacs are not aimed at gamers, but aimed at people, who just want a good looking all-in one no nonsens machine in their bedroom or even in their living room for browsing the inet and some office programs or mild photo editing. For that, the iMac is great !

BUT for POWER USERS - I say stay away !! The air fan outtake is a joke - a small 2" hole covered by the back of the stand to make it look good, but perform terrible when it comes to ventilation.

The noise level of an imac is set low, so the average user won't hear it.
But for hardcore users - gamers, video editors and webdesigners (who often have Photoshop, Indesign, Dreamweaver, Aperture and Coda open at the same) the iMac is a noisy all in one machine with bad ventilation, small fans, small GPU and very little room for SSD upgrades.

Clearly, you have never owned an iMac. Which is fine. But commenting on something you know little about is kinda useless.

There is no 2" hole on the back for ventilation. There is ventilation along the bottom where the ram is an all the way across the top.

We have Quark 8, ID, AI, PS, FL, DW and 5 different bowsers open on our 2.4 Core2Duo iMacs and they run just fine. And Im talking 500 meg PS files and 100+ page Quark and ID files. Not some tiny crappy ass little web graphics.

And blabbering about Windblows being better a better OS on a mac board, ugh. You arent going to get anyone to switch. Give up already.

Id rather have an xbox or a PSIII over some giant wind sucking PC tower sitting in a corner.

 

[CHSeifert]

Clearly, you have never owned an iMac. Which is fine. But commenting on something you know little about is kinda useless.

There is no 2" hole on the back for ventilation. There is ventilation along the bottom where the ram is an all the way across the top.

We have Quark 8, ID, AI, PS, FL, DW and 5 different bowsers open on our 2.4 Core2Duo iMacs and they run just fine. And Im talking 500 meg PS files and 100+ page Quark and ID files. Not some tiny crappy ass little web graphics.

And blabbering about Windblows being better a better OS on a mac board, ugh. You arent going to get anyone to switch. Give up already.

Id rather have an xbox or a PSIII over some giant wind sucking PC tower sitting in a corner.

Fact is that ventilation in iMacs suck - if not, you wouldn't have all the iMac owners with smoked blurred screens from particles and dust from the computer !

And YES! I owned an iMac 27 Ultimate until I returned it last friday.

Fact is that iMac's are not suited nor aimed at power users.

And please do not put words into my mouth !

No where in my post do I say Windows is a better OS than OSx.

All I say is that for some programs I personally prefer the Windows versions over the Mac versions - i.e. Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop, Indesign and Dreamweaver.

The original poster clearly needs a power PC for gaming and not a petite 'all in one' Designer machine with little to no upgrade possibilities !

 

[The Hockaday.]

Yep, I just have to decide if I want to attempt to build a new mac, build a pc, buy a gaming pc, or buy an older? perhaps...mac pro and upgrade it. I love macs but I need something powerful for gaming / 3d modeling.

Any suggestions?

Edit: Does anyone have some recommendations on a site to go to find read up on what would be good to make a powerful mac? I'd really like to retain OSX if I can.

 

[archer75]

Yep, I just have to decide if I want to attempt to build a new mac, build a pc, buy a gaming pc, or buy an older? perhaps...mac pro and upgrade it. I love macs but I need something powerful for gaming / 3d modeling.

Any suggestions?

Edit: Does anyone have some recommendations on a site to go to find read up on what would be good to make a powerful mac? I'd really like to retain OSX if I can.

insanelymac.com is what I use. There's a lot of research you need to do but you can build a 100% functional and stable machine that won't have any issues with updates.

 

[Badger^2]

Oh yeah, I forgot you owned an iMac for 2 weeks.

If you have the money: http://barefeats.com/wst10c2.html

FWIW, that giant black stripe across the top is a vent, not decoration.

 

[The Hockaday.]

Thanks. I'll go check it out. Everything I've been reading seems to point that building your own rig is best...so guess it's time to learn.

 

[Badger^2]

good luck with getting a stable one

http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/search/label/CustoMac

 

[The Hockaday.]

Insanelymac seems to be having some problems...so will have to wait to post there =(. Whelp, time to research into building a mac or just building a pc. Wish me luck xaxa.