Why would you doubt it? But the reality is that most safety problems can be fixed very easily and very quickly. Safety problems are mostly due to ignorance and nothing else.
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Former Apple Executives Address Working Conditions in Suppliers' Factories
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Why would you doubt it? But the reality is that most safety problems can be fixed very easily and very quickly. Safety problems are mostly due to ignorance and nothing else.
Apple has already stated mulitiple times that the USA cannot ramp up nor change factories like the Chinese do. Things that are done in hours or days would take weeks or months here in the USA. The USA also cannot provide the technically educated labor that is needed to run/execute these plants and changes. Whether you want to admit it or not, our Asian friends are much better at these things, especially when it comes to work ethic and tech. Lastly, the Asian work week is 6 days...not 5. That is their culture across China, Japan, etc. They work harder and have better work ethics. You aren't going to change that.
Many companies make similar profit margins as Apple. The issue is they don't sell the quantity of product that Apple does. Because of that, Apple continues to get better prices on components..so their profit goes up up up. They shouldn't be punished for that.
This is no different then you going to Sam's Club and buying in bulk. Since you are getting better prices, should we lambast you for that?
The HP Touchpad cost around $310 to make. They were "selling" it for $500. Thats a $190 profit. Obviously it didn't sell. But if it did, then would you be saying HP is garnering lots of profit?
The iPad 2 costs around $325 to make. Apple sells it for $500. That's a $175 profit.
Obviously the tech in these 2 devices different but are close enough for comparison.
So to say Apple overcharges, or makes ridiculous profits is silly. They do well because they sell metric sh-t tons of these things because everyone wants one.
Apple will blow the whistle and tell the supplier to fix the issue. They have X amount of days to comply.
I do wonder why there isn't an inherent tension with everyone else..Samsung, MS, Google, etc...oh that's right..it's Apple.
Some of the workers work more overtime than what even Chinese labor standards allow, often against their will and under the threat of termination. That is a direct result of Apple's (and partially, the consumer's) demand for iDevices.
Some things are easy to change. Other things aren't.
What me and many others are saying is that Apple needs to do more (even at the expense of lower margins) to ensure that its contract workers are being treated with dignity. Unfortunately, given the fear of hypocrisy that most consumers have when it comes to dealing with uncomfortable truths like these, most would rather try to rationalize or even dismiss these claims of labor abuse rather than confront it head on with either a protest or boycott.
And I am typing this on a Lenovo Thinkpad which was manufactured in China just six months ago. I know that I am possibly hypocritical. But it's better to acknowledge the problem than to rationalize it and hope that it goes away. Because it isn't.
Foxconn is slavery with a little money thrown in. The employees live there, they have to respond immediately to calls to get to work if something comes up and the pay stinks.
Apple and other companies should be ashamed of themselves. Of course no American factory can match this and none should. It is barbaric.
Bring the damn jobs home and stop being such greedy bitches.
Apple and other companies should be ashamed of themselves. Of course no American factory can match this and none should. It is barbaric.
Bring the damn jobs home and stop being such greedy bitches.
I expect products I order to be delivered on time. However, this doesn't mean I bear responsibility for a delivery truck being driven at a 100 miles an hour.
Neither Apple, nor iPhone or iPad customers are responsible for enforcing adherence to Chinese labor law. The ultimate responsibility for that lies with the Chinese government and the workers themselves. Apple may certainly influence how FoxConn meets its obligations as a supplier, up to and including the threat of termination of its relationship. But ask yourself, would the FoxConn workers be better off if Apple pulled their contract, throwing tens of thousands of them out of work?
Because ultimately its a problem that should be & can only be solved by China and the owners of Foxconn. Apple and any manufacture is not in the postion or in the business to topple communist governments.
It is by no means "slavery." Nor is it a convenient modification (to suit your tastes) thereof.
Apple provides jobs. So Foxconn workers can make money.
When Chinese workers and the population there has had enough, they can institute change. Until then, those workers are EMPLOYED (but not compelled to work there, I might add), and China is making an absolute killing from manufacturing the products we're so addicted to.
Pulling North American business out of China en masse is next to impossible when that country holds so much of the US' debt. China, effectively, is one of the arbiters of America's future - certainly from an economic standpoint.
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Exactly where the problem is. Blaming. How about personal responsibility? Accountability?
If these people have a crappy job, why blame the company? Why blame anyone? If you walk in, apply for a job, get it, and then voluntarily show up every day - well, you made your bed and now you get to lay down in it.
Funny, because the living conditions before they were employee by Foxconn supposedly were far far far worse...do you have a word for that? Have you ever googled and looked at the slums and country side that these workers come from...if you haven't then educate yourself.
Because I find it hard to say having shelter, meals, medical care and a paying salary barbaric for working in assembly line that in the pictures I've seen looks very clean and modern. There are supposedly 6 to a dorm room that also has excise gear, a kitchen and other things on each level. Sounds barbaric to me. F man, in college we had 2 to a tiny room with just enough room for 2 beds with a small common area and another room attached to that. So 4 people living in probably a 400-500 sq foot dorm area. No kitchen, no living room, no nothing. That's why they are called dorms.
The majority of these people had HORRIBLE LIVES before Foxconn and Apple coming there. No food, dirty water, living in slums and dirt, no health care, no nothing.
So again, you might want to see where they were a few years ago to where they are now...it's night and day and to have that quick of change is staggering for a country and it's in part because of Apple's influence on Foxconn to improve pay, living conditions and other things for their workers.
To take almost a million Chinese and bring them out of literally the worse poverty in the world other then probably India and Africa and give them all of that above (food, shelter, medical, wages and a job) and the ability to at least try to make something of themselves over a period of 4 years in a COMMUNIST country is absolutely staggering. You really need to think about this and how short of a period this is.
We can't even get ***** people out of starvation in Africa with the help of the WHOLE DAMN PLANET for decades. And Apple has taken almost a million there in China and given them Hope in the matter of a few years. If that isn't progress then I don't know wtf you expect of them.
And many of you want to pull out this work to bring back to America...where American workers don't even have the ability to do the majority of this work nor the work ethic.
Then we'd be hearing the cries about how Apple abandoned China and put hundreds of thousands of workers out of a job and back into extreme poverty. "Apple destroys millions of Chinese lives by relocating factories to America. Greedy Round-Eyes put Chinese working class back into extreme poverty and dark ages."
Apple can't win either way.
You might not like it, but not every country is going to live like we do here. And this country was built on slave labor still up to this day...don't kid yourself. There is ALWAYS a pecking order.
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BIG CLAP.
I agree with you exactly. Its all about making a difference. And if Apple really cares about people working in factories, then they should make a difference. Apple cannot just say: 'well everyone does it' cause there is a big difference between Apple and other companies.
LTD - you keep changing the scenario. First you say it's not Apple's responsibility because they are Foxconn workers. Now you are saying Apple provides jobs? Can't have that both ways buddy.
Further - you keep bringing this up. Pulling out of China. With the exception of one or two posters - why do you keep bringing this up. Apple doesn't have to pull anything out of China. What several people are saying is that they should be adhering to the very guidelines they, themselves have issued to their vendors via an agreement to do business.
If Apple has an agreement with Foxconn that in order to do business they need to do x and y and then Apple fails to ENFORCE that - is foxconn to blame?
When you sign a cell contract and the agreement says you won't tether and you do anyway - who is responsible for breaking the agreement or enforcing it. The carrier - not you.
Companies don't care. They aren't human. People are the ones who care.
How big a company have you started or do you run that pays employees above the local average? How much of your money have you invested in such companies? What percentage of your purchases go to companies that manufacture locally and/or pay above average? If those are not large amounts of time and money for you, then you care no more than you think Apple cares. And only you, as a human, can care.
Funny how everybody thinks there is a problem that should be solved, as long as the solution uses someone else's time or money.
The first part of this series is about how Apple is abandoning American workers for the Chinese and how Apple needs to bring jobs back.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/b...d-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all
This one you read today was the 2nd part of the series. So that is why myself and others are talking about Apple leaving China...because that's what tons of people want Apple to do.
WTF is your definition of dramatically improve?
Mine is to take almost a million Chinese and bring them out of literally the worse poverty in the world other then probably India and Africa and to give them food, shelter, medical, wages and a job and the ability to at least try to make something of themselves. This has occurred over a period of 4 years in a COMMUNIST COUNTRY who we have no control over. FOUR YEARS!
Eating dirt and garbage to food, shelter, medical, wages and a job...
Is that not dramatic enough for you.
Logical and sane people would applaud such change in a short period of time where it takes decades for this type of change to occur usually. Add in the Communist element and it's mind-blowing change.
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Yes and no. I just think that if Apple is going to set quality standards for their vendors as a requirement to do business - they should enforce them. What's the point in having the policies if you don't and turn a blind eye.
Most parents know that if you threaten a child with some sort of punishment and don't follow through - the kid won't take the threat seriously and will continue to do what they want.
So, suggest how to enforce these standards. Complain to the company? Done. Report the situation to the government? Take your business elsewhere? Stop manufacturing?
Stop making iPads and the shareholders would quickly fire you. Given Apple's vendor selection process, taking your business to other existing companies would probably result in product shortages, lower quality products and/or even worse worker pay.
The solution, if you think it's possible, is for you to go to China and start a manufacturing company that can make high quality product while treating workers better. Or start a local company that can compete on cost and flexibility as well. Can you? Do you know how to do that? If so, Great!
They can produce products there for the asian market but for goods sold in the US I expect companies to follow certain moral obligations. Period.
I don't care about Chinese jobs I care about American. Apple can build a factory here and make products humanely. Tough **** if their margins aren't as good as they are taking advantage of slave labor.
This goes for all companies not just Apple. Cut the crap and bring the jobs home
When 25 years ago? The world is much different today than it was when Apple was a niche computer company. Why do you think that due to China's growth they are starting to offshore their own manufacturing to poorer countries?
I believe this would happen too. If Apple give out an ultimatum to comply or move out, every one would blame Apple for pulling out. Even by some of the same people who were all for better working conditions.
Apple was a much smaller company back then and did not have to put out products at such a high volume like it does now.
So you're saying Apple has no way or means to enforce the very policies they created? Ok.
Seriously? With 78 Billion dollars in liquid cash, they could turn New Mexico into the Apple Assembly State.
Im saying Apple throws caution to the wind, but with their financial weight...they can really motivate partners into compliance.
Economics, not grandstanding. Sticking your head in the sand and not taking the time to really understand the problem. You want to eat a steak and keep milking the same cow. Can't have it both ways.
Because you're wanting that same $500/month job?
You people supporting these companies are the ones sticking your heads in the sand. I would pay a little more for a product made here and I don't care if it takes them a little more time to make it.
If those jobs were here they would be decent wage jobs, but I guess you don't think American workers deserve to make a living wage
OK... take $100 Billion and build the factories in New Mexico. Because there are so many people there who would want to work for $500/month? Because Apple could even hire the required number of people (regardless of the salary amounts)? Because the suppliers are next door?
As was recommended before, listen to the episode with Mike Daisey on This American Life which aired a few weeks ago.
Cliff's notes: it's not just the cost of labor that drives most electronics companies to locate their production facilities in China - the cost is actually not that significant. It's scalability, flexibility, proximity to other suppliers, and the sheer number of potential employees at different skill levels. The intangibles of spoiled western attitudes, work ethic, entitlements, finger-pointing, etc. are a chapter of its own.
Unless another country can take trillions of dollars and turn their sleepy fishing towns into cities with 12-million hard workers with supply chain partners next door - manufacturing in China is here to stay and continue to expand.
Another perspective - for every person graduating from college in the US, 7 more graduate in China and India. These people are hungry (sometimes literally), motivated, smart (VERY), multilingual, and will work for fraction of their western counterparts. They have nothing to lose - and they are here to stay. That's 2 countries. Shall we look at the rest of the world? Welcome to globalization. Your "neighbor" halfway around the world is NOW your competition.
The same can be said for any on-call job here. Why should Apple be ashamed? These people choose to either work for Foxconn or till the fields and wear rags, and it's not Apple's job, nor America's, to police other nations' governments and cultures. "Bring the jobs home" in what factories? With what willing workers? At what costs that will keep their products competitive? Was your computer, television, phone, networking gear, gaming console, cable box, stereo, car, and clothing made by well-treated American workers? And if it was, does it make you feel better that one suburban guy makes enough to keep 25 Chinese workers out of abject poverty?
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So your "moral obligations" mean not caring about just about the only chance these foreign people have to get out of slums, eat regularly, and live in a city? And it also means putting Americans jobs ahead of people who any fool can see are CLEARLY far worse off, because "you don't care"? What an immoral pig.
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