iMovie '08 Was Originally Called 'First Cut', Ubillos on Final Cut Pro X

[gorgeousninja]

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I remember all the "oohs and aahs" at the Final Cut Supermeet in April when Apple first unveiled FCPX. I watched that entire video. There were so many new time-saving features. And the people in the audience were going crazy.

What they didn't talk about was... well... all the stuff you can't do anymore.

It's now a complete 180 from the joy people had back in April...

This is a problem I see with Apple's secrecy about upcoming products. There are definitely times when it works perfectly. Leave people wondering and speculating and drive the hype up to near-Religious levels. Generate free buzz and augment your marketing budget by word of mouth.

Tends to work phenomenally with purely consumer products.

They go the same track with their professional products, too, and this is where I see it falter at times. The hype, the buzz, the excitement. It's all still there. Then there's the nervousness of the pro user who wonders if the new product will do what the old one will, as well as if the old product will be avilaable afterwards to aid transition in case it's not.
(Sudden discontinuation of a tried and tested product when it's replacement isn't a guaranteed fit can play merry hell with budget scheduling)

Then there's the big negative. Uncontrolled expectations. Dropping a "surprise, here's a new product that will be the only version aviliable from now on" is not very good on release day. It generate negative buzz.
If this information had been slowly released between April and now, the vitriol would proably be a lot less severe. People would still be disappointed, but there would have been the time to adjust. And, most importantly, the initial upsets would not be right in the middle of the new-product marketing and reviewing cycle.

I've heard one positive on it, from a colleague who got a copy. And even he will be sticking with the old Studio for a bit, owing to missing features.
The rest is nothing but complaints about FCP X on various websites and podcasts. This doesn't necessarily mean it's a rubbish product. But right now there's more negative buzz than positive. It will die down, as the product will improve. But as first impresions go, this one should have been handled better.

Thing is im not sure this is definitely the case. If you remember back to the relentless screams of the so-called 'grip of death' when the iphone 4 was launched. It was unbelievable, these forums were flooded, and half the posts about how Apple had 'failed' so badly came from people who had never even used one. One year on and the exact same phone has gone on to be the worlds best selling phone...
I am not saying that some people don't have genuine concerns, but do not equate bad press necessarily with a bad product..
haters really love to crawl out the woodwork to hate.

 

[winston1236]

so his first reaction is to criticize the user and claim they aren't giving it a fair shot. sounds more like an arrogant programer bent on everyone following his idea of what "great" is

 

[AppliedMicro]

Software downloads + DVD sales have been around for a while. The only way to get people to adopt something is to just pull it. Apple did it with the floppy disk and now they're doing it with their software.

See the point?

Absolutely. That's actually the point that I tried to make the whole.
(Maybe it's just my lack of proficiency in English...)

Betas (public or closed) would have helped

I'd bet that Apple did some (if limited) external beta testing before releasing 'X.
Screenshots were published before release.

Tell that to the folks with data caps. Cloud computing and the app store seem at odds with ISPs, these days

As I said: If need be, I can get Final Cut, Aperture, Keynote or what not without even getting up from my chair, let alone leaving the house.
So digital downloads are a step forward, yes. At least if offered in addition to existing sales channels. Discontinuing offering DVDs at the same time obviously is not - it's making life harder for some people.

I was an iMovie '06 user. When iMovie '08 was released, I found the interface confusing and nonintuitive. I all but stopped editing movies, after that.

Being a total noob to video editing, I never really couldn't figure out iMovie HD ('06) - or any other video editing app, for that matter - without investing more time and effort than I would have liked. iMovie '08 however was a breeze to learn and get something done quickly. I guess it always depends what you already know and are accustomed to.

Once they have "settled" with a particular application and workflow, many people stubbornly stick with it and are quick to dismiss change and invention - until either their temptation to try something new or their pain to be stuck with something old grows too strong. E.g., when one can do things that weren't accessible before, or when compatibility or interoperability with current solutions breaks. I myself are no different.

This is probably why and where FCP X "fails" for many previous FCP users at the moment: By failing to provide critical - even if niche - existing functionality. And by failing to offer compelling new features to justify an upgrade.

I guess, Final Cut Pro's most compelling feature compared to previous versions is the new and simplified workflow - which right now is offset for many (esp. advanced) users by the vast experience and expertise that they have acquired with previous versions.

 

[guzhogi]

Actually, on every project I've ever worked on there has been no molly cuddling. It's always been 'this is how it is. Do it or get out.' In the professional world, there's no time for words that make you feel warm and fuzzy. Step up to the plate, or don't. I'd argue that Apple are being very professional by realising that some people wouldn't like this upgrade but are not going out of their way to wrap us FCP users in cotton wool.

I agree people shouldn't need to be totally babied and coddled, but there should be a certain respect between everyone involved. The people signing the paychecks should at least be given a voice (and listened to) for what they want and need to do the work, as well as what they can provide, but so should the people actually doing the work.

Kinda like how Henry Ford said "If I asked the people what they wanted, they'd say a faster horse." While Henry Ford didn't provide faster horses, he did listen to what people wanted, read between the lines and saw that they wanted faster transportation. I also this one riddle "A guy goes into a hardware store and asks for a drill bit. What does he want?" Many people might say "A drill bit." The right answer is a hole. While the people doing the actual work might not say exactly what they need, but, IMO, it's the responsibility of the powers that be to give what the other people need.

Wow. Just wow. You people are nuts. As an editing professional myself, I have been digging into FCPX over the last few days. While it still needs some work, it's going to increase my productivity 10 fold. Background rendering is fast and organizing clips is a breeze.

The old version of FCP has a very steep learning curve. It's complicated and takes almost a doctorate to master. It's very easy to get frustrated. FCPX is MUCH easier to understand. Anyone, pro or not can jump into this program and put out some pretty darn good videos. It seems that many professionals have a stick up their rear and think that a program must be expensive and complicated in order to be a "professional" product. Are you guys so threatened that some teenager is going to swoop in and make you look bad?

Come on people. Times are changing. Get with the program. I have been doing video editing for 25 years and FCPX has made it fun again. I think you guys are looking at this all wrong.

I'm very happy you find this easier and better to use. As I said before, I have no problem with change if it's needed. But seeing all the complaints about missing features, kinda wish FCPX had them.

 

[*LTD*]

What do you expect from a company that can't do a decent photo editor?

To promote stuff like Pixelmator, as they should.

 

[guzhogi]

Doesn't it suck when the company that made the best enterprise solutions realize that there's more money in consumer solutions?

Just thought of something: there's probably a whole lot more money in developing for Windows since Windows has, what, 90% marketshare and Macs have 6%? Why doesn't Apple just fold up shop in their Mac devision & just sell Windows PCs and the iOS stuff? </sarcasm>

 

[iphonepiephone]

This thread seems to be going around and around in circles, just like all the *other* FUD-fest, FCPX threads on MR. How about all the whiners get OFF the forum, and get on with learning FCPX? Too difficult for you? Ironic.

A new tack, anyone?

 

[Digitalclips]

I've used Final Cut since its first iteration and made many national TV shows and now I've used the FCPX I must agree it is a perfectly nice prosumer product. However, it's not an upgrade to 7 as it stands. I really wish Apple had re written FCP 7 as a 64 bit native app even if they changed nothing else. As it stands it is far better suited to the professional's needs. No production house is going to switch to the current version IMHO, it's just too big of a change in approach.

I do suspect many may well start using it on the side 'as well' for small projects and await to see what comes along in improvements and get used to it. But for now any serious production work will remain in 7. So my suggestion is ... Just make sure you don't over write 7 with the new version, keep 7 what ever you do!

 

[iphonepiephone]

Lynda.com are rubbing their hands together with glee, because all the luddite "professional" editors will need teaching, whereas those of us who are used to the "why would it be ANY other way" (to quote Jonathan Ive) approach, can see that the whole point to this interface is *minimal* learning, and maximum productivity.

 

[Oletros]

Wow. Just wow. You people are nuts. As an editing professional myself, I have been digging into FCPX over the last few days. While it still needs some work, it's going to increase my productivity 10 fold. Background rendering is fast and organizing clips is a breeze.

The old version of FCP has a very steep learning curve. It's complicated and takes almost a doctorate to master. It's very easy to get frustrated. FCPX is MUCH easier to understand. Anyone, pro or not can jump into this program and put out some pretty darn good videos. It seems that many professionals have a stick up their rear and think that a program must be expensive and complicated in order to be a "professional" product. Are you guys so threatened that some teenager is going to swoop in and make you look bad?

Come on people. Times are changing. Get with the program. I have been doing video editing for 25 years and FCPX has made it fun again. I think you guys are looking at this all wrong.

Why are a professional threatened when a feature he need doesn't exist in the new version of a program?

Perhaps he likes the new version but if there is no X, Y or Z, fundamental to him and that they were in the former version, whey can't he blame?

 

[itsokay]

Just thought of something: there's probably a whole lot more money in developing for Windows since Windows has, what, 90% marketshare and Macs have 6%? Why doesn't Apple just fold up shop in their Mac devision & just sell Windows PCs and the iOS stuff?

practice what you preach: let go of your mac and be part of the microsoft kids.

 

[Oletros]

This thread seems to be going around and around in circles, just like all the *other* FUD-fest, FCPX threads on MR. How about all the whiners get OFF the forum, and get on with learning FCPX? Too difficult for you? Ironic.

A new tack, anyone?

Really? Are they whinning because it is too difficult?

 

[itsokay]

Really? Are they whinning because it is too difficult?

because it lacks some of the features of the former FCP and it is a paradigm shift.

 

[smali]

Is the truth of the matter that we feel threatened? The skills and long-winded techniques that we have grown to use over many years, are now consolidated into a couple of mouse clicks - something simple, that even the novice can achieve? Is it that this incredible software has the potential to turn many, MANY more of those who were put off older versions of FCP due to the scaryness and complex interface, into people who can finally realise their creative visions, and turn that into something visible? Do you feel undermined, and less "professional" because the unemployed girl in the flat next door, living on £65 a week, now has the potential and the toolset to produce something that, in time, could rival your work, albeit with less investment in those "skills" you had to sweat over for weeks, because Apple have purged the clunky UI and inefficiency out of the product, so that it makes more sense? It may not make more sense if you are used to doing things the silly, long-winded way, but the end product will look the same, so why not?


We all have potential, and Apple help us realise it, so give FCPX the chance *we all* deserve.

Great Post.

The same thing happened in the photography world where "pros" would keep information to themselves rather than invest in the next generation of photographers who would eventually replace them as they retire anyway.

With the advent of dslr and eventual low cost of entry, freely available info on the net, anyone could learn to become a photographer. But to be successful still required you to have creative skill, passion etc etc...just the ease of access to those interested has been greatly improved.

Just go to any Photography forums business sections and read the "pros" bitch and moan about "amateurs" ruining the industry.


Same thing is happening here, demystification of the filmmaking process. Of course I'm not saying people are going to be editing Hollywood films in their bedroom but it gives people a fair chance of producing something that will maybe get them somewhere one day without the high cost of entry (time and money).

 

[*LTD*]

Really? Are they whinning because it is too difficult?

I suspect it's a situation where Apple has made the product better and easier to use, but the "Pros" are accustomed to the previous, more complicated way.

As an aside, are these people really "Pros"? Does it take that much specialized knowledge to learn a friggin video-editing program? It seems the "Pro" moniker at this point in the game is just a whole lotta bull-**** used in order to pad otherwise vapid IT/"professional creatives" resumes.

 

[manu chao]

Apple should still make this available.

You mean like MS selling XP, almost five years after its successor was released? Don't get me wrong, I think Apple should declare that FCP7 will run fine under Lion and it should make FCP7 available to those who purchase FCP X, for a limited time. But how to avoid an XP-type scenario? Apple prefers to make a painful cut now (by making it plainly obvious that the days of FCP7 are numbered). The faster people adopt FCP X, the faster the complaints about that are based on not being familiar with it will subside.

I also disagree with the whole App Store force feed.

And I'd say 80% of all the applications I have (and that you have) were already download-only applications. Whether you download them from a website or an integrated store does not change things that much. For me, only Adobe stuff, Nikon, Aperture, Igor, and DiskWarrior were applications installed from an optical disk.

I think the heart of your unease about the app store is the effort those with truly slow connections have to go through to (re)download the application (which is true for those people, the pointing being again, piss off a small proportion of people in order to make a larger proportion of people happier, as Apple thinks those with faster connections will profit from a download even if they don't realise it yet, ie, no longer having store physical media, no longer needing that optical drive around).
And probably that unease that the risk of app store authentication or availability problems is higher than the risk of misplacing (or damaging) the physical media.

 

[dethmaShine]

What's up? Did the crystal clear light of reality just make your head explode?

Do it again! I'll film it and then edit it in FCPX in no time!

I'll call it "Green exploding head. Under a bridge."

That's a stupid explanation of what you're were trying to explain in your previous comment.

'Will this work on my iPad? Now I can teach grandma to edit and she'll actually understand.'

Seriously? This is supposed to be a pro-software. You're right that it is not supposed to be difficult to use just because it is pro but undermining the concept behind such a release is non-sensical and vague. If you need to use some thing very basic so that even your grandma can use it, you have iMovie to do so. This professional grade software is not meant for consumers or even pro-sumers. But mainly for professionals.

I am not saying that this is a bad or a good release but stating that every one can use this software is non-sensical and absolutely not the point. If it were so, then Apple had been selling it as iMovie Pro for $99.

 

[Keebler]

I am sick of the stupid kids who has no idea of video editing posting their useless garbage in here.

Final Cut Pro X IS GARBAGE!!!!

I work in a TV station, we had no less than 900 projects in FCP 7 and is just no tolerable not having FCP X not reading those projects 100%. We are not exporting in any other stinky format, WE JUST CAN NOT! WE HAVE NO TIME!

Compressor 3 was mediocre enough, Final Cut Server was a complete lie already.

By the end of the year we are going to switch the entire platform to Adobe Premiere and that is going to cost our shareholders some good money and time and training but better safe than depending on a CEO of a crazy software company with cancer in his brain creating software for Barbie.

There are not excuses, we have been left alone on the wild with FCP X. It is a lame joke that has no excuses.

It is just like changing every single gas station to hydrogen overnight. What do I do with my car now? you ask, well we are not supporting it anymore.

I mean, the bunch of kids doesn't get it.

If I had a gun with one bullet and had Fidel Castro in front of me or Randi Ubillos... wow... I would be pointing back and forth.

Steve Balmer must be shocked and laughing at this and you bet FCP X will end up in the Guinness Book of Records as the biggest software flaw ever!

I love the first line calling kids stupid, but grammatically.....like a kid.

so you don't like it. don't switch over. does your station suddenly require a NEW solution? Is the current version of FCS NOT working for you? Have you stopped working b/c it's not doing the job for you?

btw, I fully acknowledge they've hurt some of the key collaborative workflow features. I can certainly also understand the huge letdown, but what kills me is ppl like you, whose companies have invested huge dollars with Apple's editing products (hardware and software), just bitching like little babies about switching. If you're that invested in time, energy and shareholder dollars, don't you think a bit of time to hear and see what Apple's response to their lack of missing key features is warranted? I would think, cost wise, it's better to wait and see what they have to say instead of buying new software and training staff.

Or, are you that willing to take your bat and ball and go home?

I'm interested to see their response.

 

[179202]

I agree people shouldn't need to be totally babied and coddled, but there should be a certain respect between everyone involved. The people signing the paychecks should at least be given a voice (and listened to) for what they want and need to do the work, as well as what they can provide, but so should the people actually doing the work.

Kinda like how Henry Ford said "If I asked the people what they wanted, they'd say a faster horse." While Henry Ford didn't provide faster horses, he did listen to what people wanted, read between the lines and saw that they wanted faster transportation. I also this one riddle "A guy goes into a hardware store and asks for a drill bit. What does he want?" Many people might say "A drill bit." The right answer is a hole. While the people doing the actual work might not say exactly what they need, but, IMO, it's the responsibility of the powers that be to give what the other people need.

That's fair enough but I think that is exactly what's happening here. We're being given a different drill bit. Apple are banking on the basics of this software being compelling and great. And they are. What isn't great is the missing few features. The software works extremely well as an editing app. It blows the others out of the water. Now that's done, they can get to the nitty gritty of things like multicam, XML, OMF etc.

This is version 1 of a new piece of software, not an upgrade. I said this in another thread and I'll say it again, anyone who thought this'd be ready to jump to on day 1 is nuts. Give it a year and this'll be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[itsokay]

I suspect it's a situation where Apple has made the product better and easier to use, but the "Pros" are accustomed to the previous, more complicated way.

As an aside, are these people really "Pros"? Does it take that much specialized knowledge to learn a friggin video-editing program? It seems the "Pro" moniker at this point in the game is just a whole lotta bull-**** used in order to pad otherwise vapid IT/"professional creatives" resumes.

they seem to have forgotten that the montage is merely a means to share stories. its all about love, people.

i give you all a big hug.

 

[guzhogi]

The same thing happened in the photography world where "pros" would keep information to themselves rather than invest in the next generation of photographers who would eventually replace them as they retire anyway.

With the advent of dslr and eventual low cost of entry, freely available info on the net, anyone could learn to become a photographer. But to be successful still required you to have creative skill, passion etc etc...just the ease of access to those interested has been greatly improved.

Just go to any Photography forums business sections and read the "pros" bitch and moan about "amateurs" ruining the industry.

Same thing is happening here, demystification of the filmmaking process. Of course I'm not saying people are going to be editing Hollywood films in their bedroom but it gives people a fair chance of producing something that will maybe get them somewhere one day without the high cost of entry (time and money).

I suspect it's a situation where Apple has made the product better and easier to use, but the "Pros" are accustomed to the previous, more complicated way.

As an aside, are these people really "Pros"? Does it take that much specialized knowledge to learn a friggin video-editing program? It seems the "Pro" moniker at this point in the game is just a whole lotta bull-**** used in order to pad otherwise vapid IT/"professional creatives" resumes.

IMO, there's nothing wrong for making things easier to use. If you get the same quality product for less effort, all the better. That just means you'll get the same quality product with less time, effort and money, or a higher quality product with the same amount of resources.

I think some of the people here are complaining about the loss of features, like multi cam support. I'll admit, I'm no pro film editor, but the loss of features would make me feel bad too. I think features and a person's skills go hand in hand. Without skills, people could press the buttons, but not push the envelope and create great new ideas. However, without features, you can't use your skills.

I give you all a big hug.

I give you a big hug back! I love hugs. Hopefully you're a cute, single girl.

 

[Sirmausalot]

Why Final Cut 7 is not an answer

I switched from Avid to FCP because Avid did not support P2 media.

I cannot use Final Cut Pro 7 because it does not natively support DSLR video and never will. It also only uses one core, is stuck at less than 3.5GB of RAM. Please, please do not offer that as a solution as it simply isn't one.

I was waiting to switch to Final Cut Pro X. I was excited about learning a new interface and experimenting with what were promised to be powerful new tools and ways of thinking about the timeline. What I got was this:

An app that won't let me export an OMF. If you don't know what that is, you honestly shouldn't be offering us advice. But it's an essential tool for any filmmaker.

X doesn't support DVD authoring. DVD Studio Pro was EOL. And as much as I sell from Digital Downloads, I still sell DVDs and need a solid compression program and DVD authoring program.

So Final Cut Pro 7 does not support my current needs, neither does Final Cut Pro X. I MUST switch to continue my work and many others do as well.

Final note, if you've read this far: Final Cut STUDIO was $999 and included Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut 7, Compressor, Color etc. So the new price only includes the editing program is NOT that great a deal, especially since it doesn't integrate with other tools we need.

 

[Lesser Evets]

Just thought of something: there's probably a whole lot more money in developing for Windows since Windows has, what, 90% marketshare and Macs have 6%? Why doesn't Apple just fold up shop in their Mac devision & just sell Windows PCs and the iOS stuff? </sarcasm>

You actually make a good point, though might not realize it. The PC era is now slipping away, and Apple might possibly shut down the entire Mac line in 10 years. The portables/iOS devices are much more lucrative and are the future of the mass market.

It is speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Macs wither on the vine by 2020. However, Apple would merely be transplanting the large computers with more-able portables as tech and engineering makes such devices into powerful PCs needing no tethering to a full-functioned Mac.

If you think about it, the speed/function gap between an iPad and an iMac is maybe 6 years at this moment. Once it gets down under 3, and off-pad storage is heartily available, the iMac will go towards obsolescence. OSX might well be the last Mac OS. iPad and iPhone have changed the market and will continue to do so from here onward.

FCPX begins to point strongly to Apple losing grip with professionals. Their eyes are concerned with the larger markets, now: not the Windows market, but one they are creating new and ruling with the iOS gadgets.

 

[manu chao]

I really wish Apple had re written FCP 7 as a 64 bit native app even if they changed nothing else.

As I said in an earlier post:
Once you have a significant market share, you only have two options:
1) cater to your constituency and only make slow and small changes, essentially stay stuck in the past (eg, Windows XP which is still going strong in business)
2) annoy your constituency from time to time by throwing old things out and introducing something new.

If Henry Ford would have had a nation-wide business of horse sales, horse 'service' stations, etc., he could have kept this business going as it was and just add the car business, or he could have said, shut down the horse business, cars are the future.

It feels like Apple was selling an implicit promise with each copy of FCP that for the next five (or ten) years we will continue to make changes and improvements to this application without breaking any backwards compatibility nor changing the workflow in anything but minor ways. And what people now complain about is that Apple broke that promise. Except that Apple never made such a promise. Nor does Adobe for Premiere (in fact they discontinued Premiere for the Mac with fairly short notice).

 

[NAG]

I think the bit about iMovie being First Cut would have been the better move. Because there isn't really an iLife suite anymore (iTunes has always been separate and iWeb and iDVD are dead, which leaves iPhoto and iMovie) If they would have called it First Cut the argument that Final Cut Pro X is "iMovie Pro" would be cut off at the knees. There are a lot of people making comments on both sides that are completely uninformed (as usual).

The only thing I think Apple did massively wrong was discontinue Final Cut Studio. They should have kept it going for a while like OS 9. OS X is a great OS but it wasn't ready for prime time at launch. Granted, OS X was probably in worse shape than Final Cut Pro X (because an OS is more complicated). Still, a transition period would probably change little from Apple's point of view and give all the people who need the old features a sense of security.

It really feels like the irrational behaviors come from simple motivations, Apple wants a clean break from the past and the Final Cut Pro users want to use products currently sold by Apple (I'm kind of shocked how many people bought it day one and then complained they couldn't instantly integrate it into their work flow...that is just reckless behavior when buying an application that is your livelihood).