Introducing the new Mac Pro

[Just Switched]

http://www.apple.com/macpro/

It bothers me that apple still lists this as new. Does apple think we're stupid? Are they just rubbing it in our face? I understand that apple is in the position of power and we are free to take our money elsewhere so I'm not debating that but what would the reasoning be for this type of disrespect? I'm not suggesting that apple owes anyone anything but should there be some level of respect and common decency? Do they think they are fooling anyone by "Introducing the new Mac Pro..."

 

[keewe]

pretty nasty to start a thread titled like this in times like these. ;P

 

[FoxyKaye]

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if Apple is just going to simply kill off the Mac Pro and the XServe. That Steve's "wait" comment re: pro updates really means, "Just wait, we're going to end our Pro line in favor of the iMac and iPad."

Or even better, "Just wait, we're shipping iOS on all Apple products now instead of OS X."

*sigh*

And yeah - you did pick a cruel thread title

 

[deconstruct60]

http://www.apple.com/macpro/

It bothers me that apple still lists this as new. Does apple think we're stupid? Are they just rubbing it in our face?

What they are suppose to rewrite the product description page several times a year ? It is newer than the older one. While there is a tweak there for Snow Leopard ... that actually changed.

Might be remotely making a point if everything on Apple's site wasn't marked "new". iMac, Snow Leopard , iPods, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Just Switched]

What they are suppose to rewrite the product description page several times a year ? It is newer than the older one. While there is a tweak there for Snow Leopard ... that actually changed.

Might be remotely making a point if everything on Apple's site wasn't marked "new". iMac, Snow Leopard , iPods, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not sure I was even trying to make a point as much as it was me venting a little frustration. I think you are right though. Everything at apple is new. I'm not expecting a full rewrite but the "New" on everything might be a bit much. Just a little tweak here and there might be nice.

 

[ValSalva]

http://www.apple.com/macpro/

It bothers me that apple still lists this as new. Does apple think we're stupid? Are they just rubbing it in our face? I understand that apple is in the position of power and we are free to take our money elsewhere so I'm not debating that but what would the reasoning be for this type of disrespect? I'm not suggesting that apple owes anyone anything but should there be some level of respect and common decency? Do they think they are fooling anyone by "Introducing the new Mac Pro..."

Apple's marketing at its basest. If they just took the word "new" out it would still look impressive but it wouldn't be so galling to the Mac Pro's audience: people who know it's not new.

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if Apple is just going to simply kill off the Mac Pro and the XServe. That Steve's "wait" comment re: pro updates really means, "Just wait, we're going to end our Pro line in favor of the iMac and iPad."

Or even better, "Just wait, we're shipping iOS on all Apple products now instead of OS X."

I definitely felt that way until WWDC and then when the new Mac Mini was released. The iPad was hardly mentioned at WWDC, thankfully. The new Mac Mini says to me that although Apple's main focus is on iOS devices right now they still do care somewhat about OS X. Of course if June 29th comes and goes without a new Mac Pro I might feel otherwise.

 

[deconstruct60]

Or even better, "Just wait, we're shipping iOS on all Apple products now instead of OS X."

Since January Apple has shipped more Mac OS X products than "non computer" products.

iPhone + iPad vs. MacBook Pros (in various flavors) , MacBook , Mini

Did Mac OS X products get a hype show? No! Some folks seems to measure not so much on what they do rather than how much press coverage is given. The "talk" as opposed to the "walk".

Some folks also seem to be bent out of shape because being on macrumors held no advantage ( couldn't game the release with insider knowledge. ).

Yeah it is late, but not really all that late (even more so given the gap in the 3600 line up). If Apple was going to kill something they'd just remove it from the website. (e.g., the XRaid. )

If go to the online Apple Store the Mac Pro is selling at a faster pace than the Macbook Air. For all the folks who speculate that Mac Pro demand has collapse and absolutely nobody is buying them ..... the MB Air must be down right dismal.


P.S. I think XServe is in worse shape though. Perhaps there is a rational with the gap in the Xeon 3600 line up and getting volume when they want it. However, XServe has lower volume ( than Mac Pro ) and is immune to Intel not flushing out the 3600 line since wasn't going to use them anyway. Unless they were holding out for a crazy Nethalem-EX Xserve ... which seems unlikely .... not sure what hold up is there.

 

[Icaras]

pretty nasty to start a thread titled like this in times like these. ;P

I agree. I vote for a change of thread title.

 

[Icaras]

I definitely felt that way until WWDC and then when the new Mac Mini was released. The iPad was hardly mentioned at WWDC, thankfully. The new Mac Mini says to me that although Apple's main focus is on iOS devices right now they still do care somewhat about OS X. Of course if June 29th comes and goes without a new Mac Pro I might feel otherwise.

Really? About the new Mac Mini that is. I had thought hope had been rekindled on these boards after we saw the Mac Mini go through a rebirth. I always thought it meant Apple's Mac R&D was indeed hard at work, which could mean good things to come for the MP line, and that the Mac wasn't truly being ignored, as some predicted.

 

[Just Switched]

Can I change the thread title or does a mod need to do it? The point wasn't so much to trick people into thinking apple has released new mac pros as much as it was to point out how I feel about apple's wording on their website.

 

[Icaras]

Can I change the thread title or does a mod need to do it? The point wasn't so much to trick people into thinking apple has released new mac pros as much as it was to point out how I feel about apple's wording on their website.

Haha, yea I know. I'm not being overly serious at all really. It'll just be interesting to see how many more reactions you get later in the day

 

[deconstruct60]

Of course if June 29th comes and goes without a new Mac Pro I might feel otherwise.

June 29th is perhaps a bit quick. Look at the last couple of months.

MacBook Pro April 13 , 2010
MacBook May 18, 2010
Mini June 15, 2010

If Apple is giving themselves an approximately 30 day (4-5 week ) window between releases it could be July 13th or 20th before it shows up.


Wouldn't be surprising if there were some common QA teams (Mac OS , etc. ) that are shared between Mac OS X products so that there is a cap on how many can release and how quickly. Those three lines also share the Nvidia 320M part (and its production rollout) so that could be contributing too, but suspect it is also a case of not doing too much in parallel also.

 

[VirtualRain]

I agree. I vote for a change of thread title.

+1, I feel like I've been click-jacked!

 

[ValSalva]

June 29th is perhaps a bit quick. Look at the last couple of months.

MacBook Pro April 13 , 2010
MacBook May 18, 2010
Mini June 15, 2010

If Apple is giving themselves an approximately 30 day (4-5 week ) window between releases it could be July 13th or 20th before it shows up.


Wouldn't be surprising if there were some common QA teams (Mac OS , etc. ) that are shared between Mac OS X products so that there is a cap on how many can release and how quickly. Those three lines also share the Nvidia 320M part (and its production rollout) so that could be contributing too, but suspect it is also a case of not doing too much in parallel also.

Yes, when you project it out like that it is less likely that a new Mac Pro will be on June 29th

But what about all those rumors about hexacore Xeons being available at the end of June? Darn rumors!

 

[strausd]

June 29th is perhaps a bit quick. Look at the last couple of months.

MacBook Pro April 13 , 2010
MacBook May 18, 2010
Mini June 15, 2010

If Apple is giving themselves an approximately 30 day (4-5 week ) window between releases it could be July 13th or 20th before it shows up.


Wouldn't be surprising if there were some common QA teams (Mac OS , etc. ) that are shared between Mac OS X products so that there is a cap on how many can release and how quickly. Those three lines also share the Nvidia 320M part (and its production rollout) so that could be contributing too, but suspect it is also a case of not doing too much in parallel also.

That's very interesting. If they stick with the update OS X device every month, I wonder what they will do with the iMac... But if it doesn't come by the end of summer, I don't know what I'll do

 

[Icaras]

+1, I feel like I've been click-jacked!

Haha. Funny.

Actually, it seems like I get click-jacked every Tuesday when I load Mac Rumors to check for any Mac Pro news

That's very interesting. If they stick with the update OS X device every month, I wonder what they will do with the iMac... But if it doesn't come by the end of summer, I don't know what I'll do

I always suspect the iMac would be released between the months of August - October, since it's recent update cycle has been a consistent 8-11,8-11 pattern.

This definitely gives much more weight to a July release, as noted by Deconstruct.

 

[THX1139]

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if Apple is just going to simply kill off the Mac Pro and the XServe. That Steve's "wait" comment re: pro updates really means, "Just wait, we're going to end our Pro line in favor of the iMac and iPad."

Or even better, "Just wait, we're shipping iOS on all Apple products now instead of OS X."

*sigh*

And yeah - you did pick a cruel thread title

I hate to say it, but I agree. All signs are pointing to the demise of the proline. Here's some of my reasons why I feel that way.

1. They are really slow on updating their MacPro line. It's like they have no interest in staying current with technology in that end of the business. Go to that section of the website and I swear you can hear crickets.

2. They haven't stayed on top of development of Final Cut Studio. It's really out of date compared to Premiere CS5. No support for 64bit yet? That's just stupid.... or maybe they don't care?

3. They discontinued Shake a few years ago saying they were working on a replacement. That replacement has yet to materialize.

4. Most of their revenues are generated by i type of products. To maintain their momentum and competitiveness in the phone and personal product line, they will need to focus all of their attention on them.

5. Most serious content development is happening on the "other" platforms such as Linux. Mac is still a player in smaller studios, but there isn't as much revenue growth in that sector compared to "i" type of products.

6. Adobe and Apple's relationship is strained. Adobe is the reason that most designers use the Mac. Take Adobe out of the equation and they will flock to Windows7.

7. You get far more power for your dollar on PC. Especially if you build it yourself. If MS keeps making in-roads on their OS development, there will be less of a reason to stay with Mac. Windows7 actually looks good. And that is saying a lot from someone who has always hated Windows.

8. All signs are pointing to Apple becoming a personal device, content distribution, and application company. They will phase out the pro-line and eventually put their resources towards only developing for anything with an i.

And before you start flaming my post, consider that I've been a loyal Mac user since 1993. I do all of my development on my trusty Macpro or Macbook Pro. But even with all of that, I'm having doubts about the future of my Mac usage. I'm seriously considering migrating to Windows over the next couple of years if Apple doesn't shift more resources to their proline. As it stands now, I can build a machine that is faster than the top of the line Macpro for a third of the price. I'll develop on a Windows box and then watch it on an iPad or iPhone. I'm sure that Apple will be happy with that arrangement.

 

[reel2reel]

Can I change the thread title or does a mod need to do it? The point wasn't so much to trick people into thinking apple has released new mac pros as much as it was to point out how I feel about apple's wording on their website.

It is indeed pretty sad that they're still calling it "new." I find it discouraging that it looks like the web page forgotten in time.

...yet I still hold hope as another Tuesday approaches...

 

[TennisandMusic]

I hate to say it, but I agree. All signs are pointing to the demise of the proline. Here's some of my reasons why I feel that way.

1. They are really slow on updating their MacPro line. It's like they have no interest in staying current with technology in that end of the business. Go to that section of the website and I swear you can hear crickets.

2. They haven't stayed on top of development of Final Cut Studio. It's really out of date compared to Premiere CS5. No support for 64bit yet? That's just stupid.... or maybe they don't care?

3. They discontinued Shake a few years ago saying they were working on a replacement. That replacement has yet to materialize.

4. Most of their revenues are generated by i type of products. To maintain their momentum and competitiveness in the phone and personal product line, they will need to focus all of their attention on them.

5. Most serious content development is happening on the "other" platforms such as Linux. Mac is still a player in smaller studios, but there isn't as much revenue growth in that sector compared to "i" type of products.

6. Adobe and Apple's relationship is strained. Adobe is the reason that most designers use the Mac. Take Adobe out of the equation and they will flock to Windows7.

7. You get far more power for your dollar on PC. Especially if you build it yourself. If MS keeps making in-roads on their OS development, there will be less of a reason to stay with Mac. Windows7 actually looks good. And that is saying a lot from someone who has always hated Windows.

8. All signs are pointing to Apple becoming a personal device, content distribution, and application company. They will phase out the pro-line and eventually put their resources towards only developing for anything with an i.

And before you start flaming my post, consider that I've been a loyal Mac user since 1993. I do all of my development on my trusty Macpro or Macbook Pro. But even with all of that, I'm having doubts about the future of my Mac usage. I'm seriously considering migrating to Windows over the next couple of years if Apple doesn't shift more resources to their proline. As it stands now, I can build a machine that is faster than the top of the line Macpro for a third of the price. I'll develop on a Windows box and then watch it on an iPad or iPhone. I'm sure that Apple will be happy with that arrangement.

Only problem with that is that without OSX you don't have iDevices. You just don't. So either they HAVE to maintain OSX on some level (and I think we all agree it's pretty woeful right now), or they allow you to develop on Windows and/or Linux. If the OSX ecosystem dries up, so does everything else. They've got to do something.

 

[jjahshik32]

I thought it was going to be a mock up.

 

[Icaras]

That's very interesting. If they stick with the update OS X device every month, I wonder what they will do with the iMac... But if it doesn't come by the end of summer, I don't know what I'll do

I just remembered. Let's not forget about the Air, which is also way overdue for an update as well. The guys over at the MBA forums seem like they're suffering just as much as we are

So, keeping on track with an 11 month update for the iMac, that would put it squarely in the month of September, just perfectly out of reach of the Back-to-School program.

This leaves July and August. Either the Mac Pro gets updated in July and the MBA in August, or vice versa. But I think this is how it will all go down.

Thoughts?

 

[deconstruct60]

H
I always suspect the iMac would be released between the months of August - October, since it's recent update cycle has been a consistent 8-11,8-11 pattern.

I'd say September-October for iMac. There are rumors that Intel will release a 32nm shrink of Lynnfield ( quads with no built in GPUs. they would just primarily get cheaper with minimum GHz bump.). That should allow the current i5/i7 models to move down into the lower two slots and squeeze out the Core2Duos completely. The problem is what put into the higher slot (plus its max ghz alternative). They need 3 i5's in the $113-258 price range for their 3 entry standard line up. Then need an i7 no more than $284 to slot into that "max iMac performance" slot. Same general missing gap area that the 5620-5640 would be in; a missing set of mainstream value, 32nm, quad core parts.

The long October/November dates if Apple want to fill the upper slots of iMac with SandyBridge components. Not sure if Intel is going to shrink Lynnfield and be very aggressive with SandyBridge at same time. If have to wait for Sandy Bridge then it will be Q4 2010.


Apple could do something quick in July/August with the clarkfield line (desktop Core-i with GPUs introduced in January) but that means more Intel IGP which isn't generating a huge fanbase on the MacBook Pros.

 

[strausd]

I just remembered. Let's not forget about the Air, which is also way overdue for an update as well. The guys over at the MBA forums seem like they're suffering just as much as we are

So, keeping on track with an 11 month update for the iMac, that would put it squarely in the month of September, just perfectly out of reach of the Back-to-School program.

This leaves July and August. Either the Mac Pro gets updated in July and the MBA in August, or vice versa. But I think this is how it will all go down.

Thoughts?

I forgot about the MBA and that theory definitely makes sense. But now the question is which month? What would they be adding in the iMac? Since they now use desktop CPUs could they put hexacores in it? But then we would be in a similar situation that we are in now, where the iMac competes closely with the low end Mac Pro. And if other theories are right in that Apple will offer a 4-core low end Mac Pro, then if a hexacore iMac comes out, it will be faster than the Mac Pro. So many things could happen!!!!!!

 

[deconstruct60]

I just remembered. Let's not forget about the Air, which is also way overdue for an update as well. The guys over at the MBA forums seem like they're suffering just as much as we are

As were the MBPro folks after the Core-i mobile chips had been shipping for months and Apple had not updated the whole line up yet. All the anguish in that forum from Jan to April didn't make the MBP get released any faster.


However, the MBA is dead last over in the Mac Store. If I was Apple I'd wait a bit long to see just how much the iPad killed off the MBA user base (i.e., how many were really primarily buying on weight , smallest size, and just simple productivity on the road apps. ) I suspect the iPad is cannibalizing a sizable fraction that former market. There is also no newer/faster CPU to move to so that all it primarily would be is a 320M upgrade and maybe (if memory shrank enough both physically and cost wise) a move to 4GB. Neither of which is something to crow about. More so, just upgrades for upgrade sake.

If Intel backs Apple into a corner where they have to drop the optical drive in the MBP 13" to get a discrete GPU in there, then the MBA is dead. The differentiation between the two will be really small.


The Mac Pro has substantive CPU upgrades to move to (at least in the DP configs using shipping 5600 series). If Intel fills in the gaps in the SP 3600 line up soon, then it is good to go. Worse case if Intel is completely screwing up the 3600 line up then Apple can go with some speed bumped 3500s. Not really preferable but if an Intel CPU cock-up ... not much can do about it.

 

[deconstruct60]

... where the iMac competes closely with the low end Mac Pro.

The 'super deluxe, max performance' iMac should compete closely with the lower end Mac Pro. Why should Apple have a large gap in performance when there is no large gap in price ?

If the top end iMac came with an optional antiglare/matte screen (or an iMac with a hood ), there would be that many more folks who really don't need a modern workstation who would buy the desktop that they really need (low core count, 4-12GB memory box ).

For the immediate future I suspect Intel will let AMD have the $200-300 hexcore processor market. Intel will perhaps have one priced below $500 before years end, but doubt they are going to limbo under the $300 mark at any desktop reasonable GHz clocking. If the processor isn't under $300 it isn't going into in an iMac.