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You are the One

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2014
633
795
In the present
Besides looking cool and futuristic on TV, is there any advantage of a device being transparent (and subsequently displaying photos, images and content in general far worse)?

They're obviously both transparent and with a better image quality. Transparent is a setting in iOS 21.2 :)

They can be used to hack
doors as well.
 

rp2011

macrumors 68020
Oct 12, 2010
2,340
2,655
Got burned once already. Now I have all these expensive horse shoes that are not compatible with my model T

I let Ford slide on that one. Fool me once shame on.., I forget how that goes but Apple will not get away with it this time.
We shall seek revenge!!
 
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You are the One

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2014
633
795
In the present
I'd imagine if it got really thin it would become easier to operate with one hand.

Waterproofing, wonder if that means higher repair costs?

Sounds interesting though I like it. Best would be in a 5S size.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,916
25,864
It's one of the advantages of the digital output through the Lightning port but it already does it and doesn't require the elimination of the 3.5mm jack.

These current Lightning connected headphones have their own DAC and amps. The Sony has a rechargeable battery because it includes multiple connections to allow it to work across a wide range of products but the Philips headphones are powered from the Lightning port as they only work with iOS devices.

http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/headband-headphones/mdr-1adac
http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/M2L_00/fidelio-fidelio-headphones-with-lightning-connector

Further, having a powered port like Lightning (though I believe it will actually be USB C) offers the advantage of performing other types of audio processing; ambient noise cancellation being one of many. Not having to deal with a battery in a headphone with that feature would be huge.

Of course that comes with a consequence of draining an iPhone's battery somewhat - the devil is in the details, i.e. how much.
 

bingeciren

macrumors 65816
Sep 6, 2011
1,069
1,009
The 3.5, if dropped, will not just be about device thickness/weight. Think outside the box a little.

Absolutely! I can name a few reasons: 1) From now on iPhones will not include earphones out of the box. 2) Lightning to 3.5 mm adapter will be sold for $30. 3) Lightning ready Beats earphones will be promoted heavily and most people will end up buying them instead of buying the adapter. 4) Some people will buy both the adapter and the lightning earphones.

Add the savings of not including an earphone with the iPhone to the income generated from the sale of the 3.5 mm adapter and the Lightning Beats earphones then multiply it with the number of iPhones to be sold. Ingenious!
 
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zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,929
3,677
Further, having a powered port like Lightning (though I believe it will actually be USB C) offers the advantage of performing other types of audio processing; ambient noise cancellation being one of many. Not having to deal with a battery in a headphone with that feature would be huge.

Of course that comes with a consequence of draining an iPhone's battery somewhat - the devil is in the details, i.e. how much.

But again, that is nothing that can't already be accomplished today. I guess maybe if they include new apple earbuds in the box that connect via lightning (no way it will be usb-c) and include the DAC and noise processing to block out background noise without any external battery, people might eventually be won over, but I still think that going to a proprietary connection for headphones which people are used to be able to use with nearly any device is really going to irritate people.
 

H2SO4

macrumors 603
Nov 4, 2008
5,660
6,939
If by small you mean thin, then foldable TV is even better for my preferences. Unflod it and use it only when I need it.



According to who? You and the rest of MacRumors crowd?
I never said or implied foldable did I?

I never specified how thin. I just said too thin. Fact.
There will come a point where holding it whether too thin or too thick becomes uncomfortable. Fact.

Don’t be clever - you end up looking even more stupid.
 

milo

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2003
6,891
523
Nothing can beat a 3.5 jack! Nothing ever!!
Hence the manufactured faux controversy.

OK? Doesn't change the fact that there isn't anything available that IS an improvement over the 3.5 jack.

Smaller or thinner? Maybe. But other than that, a 3.5 jack is able to handle passing the highest fidelity audio formats as well as any other jack.

The controversy is that I and many others still have plenty of gear (headphones and otherwise) that uses the 3.5 jack to connect. Maybe Apple will include a free adapter but I seriously doubt it. And their replacement isn't necessarily going to improve sound quality or anything else, it's not a better connection, just different and in my case much less convenient. Nothing manufactured or faux about it.

I know you're being a smartass but you just give the impression that you don't understand how digital or analog audio work.
 

J. Jizzle

macrumors regular
Mar 30, 2013
231
79
U.S.A.
Don't get me wrong, I love my iPhone 6s Plus, but I'll never understand why Apple sactrifices practicality for thinness. Who REALLY cares about how thin their device is? If I buy a computer I want it to have a built-in CD/BluRay drive. If I buy a smart phone I want to be able to plug in headphones if I want to. These products are not cheap. I don't want to be forced to buy USB external devices or adapters for everything
 
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milo

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2003
6,891
523
In order for Bluetooth audio to make advances, the cheap, ubiquitous 3.5mm adapter needs to go away. Otherwise, people are going to cling to the cheapest, easiest, best sounding alternative available.

There's a cheap, easy, great sounding alternative already (3.5).

So let's make it go away in favor of something inferior on all three counts!

Yay?
 
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citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,916
25,864
But again, that is nothing that can't already be accomplished today. I guess maybe if they include new apple earbuds in the box that connect via lightning (no way it will be usb-c) and include the DAC and noise processing to block out background noise without any external battery, people might eventually be won over, but I still think that going to a proprietary connection for headphones which people are used to be able to use with nearly any device is really going to irritate people.

It's not that proprietary. Several manufacturers already offer Lightning headphones. When Apple's change becomes official, count on a ton more. Apple will be driving the market.

That said, I really think the connection will be USB C rather than Lightening. That would align well with where laptop/desktop computers are going, especially Apple's.
 

Jsameds

Suspended
Apr 22, 2008
3,525
7,987
Don't get me wrong, I love my iPhone 6s Plus, but I'll never understand why Apple sactrifices practicality for thinness. Who REALLY cares about how thin their device is? If I buy a computer I want it to have a built-in CD/BluRay drive. If I buy a smart phone I want to be able to plug in headphones if I want to. These products are not cheap. I don't want to be forced to buy USB external devices or adapters for everything

Thin sells, but most importantly it also forces more efficient components and techniques out of the engineers, which leads to better products (and new product lines) in the long run.

If it wasn't for Apple's drive for thinness and the solution was to just slap a bigger battery on each time, we'd all be carrying round bricks in our pockets like we were in the 1980's.
 
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GlenK

macrumors 65816
Aug 1, 2013
1,449
892
St. Augustine, FL
I use Bose noise cancelling headphones at night. If they provide an adaptor to accommodate 3.5mm jacked headphones then fine. Not interested in spending another $300+ to replace them. So it's up to Apple whether I'm back in the phone market again.. Really don't care about a thinner phone. The 6s is fine for my needs with it's current thickness.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,916
25,864

Narcaz

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2013
419
558
It's not that proprietary. Several manufacturers already offer Lightning headphones. When Apple's change becomes official, count on a ton more. Apple will be driving the market.

That said, I really think the connection will be USB C rather than Lightening. That would align well with where laptop/desktop computers are going, especially Apple's.

This is the very definition of proprietary. Those Lightning headphones had to be certified in the Made for iPhone (MFI) process. You can't built a lightning headphone without paying licensing fees and Apple's permission to do so. They can easily lock you out (like those cheap chinese Lightning cables that have been blocked with an iOS update). That won't be possible with USB C as long as the headphone matches the standard, it will work.

I don't know if Apple can really drive the market towards Lightning headphones. And i don't know if they could achieve some sort of cross compatibility with USB/C, which could be going the same route for Audio. At least with USB C you would switch from the universal 3,5mm to another universal standard. Last april i was sure, that we won't see Apple implementing Lightning into their Macbooks. But after the last introduction of Lightning charged peripherals (keyboard, trackpad, siri remote...) i'm not so sure any more.
 

Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
5,360
2,930
True, but in a notebook that doesn't really count as a port. Even Apple on its website advertise the MacBook as a single port notebook. Go check yourself in the Design section.

Yes, but that's Apple's marketing. The fact is, the audio jack is still a port. Actually considering this rumor, it's interesting that Apple completely ignores it. It takes up a huge amount of valuable room on an ultra-thin notebook, where they could otherwise have out a second USB-C port and offered more customers a better value. But they picked their battles here. I guarantee if this current rumor is true, Apple designed the MacBook with a 17-pin Lightning port where that 3.5mm Jack is, but decided they couldn't implement it until they made the move on the iPhone, which might have been set for the 6, but Apple decided that was too early.

It's really not that much bigger than Lightning, which seems to be its only advantage (besides licensing fees for Apple and that's probably the reason, why this scenario won't happen):


USB-C-vs-Lightning-port-size-dimension-comparison-graphic

Actually it's quite a bit bigger than Lightning, not just height and width, but primarily depth. So it's easily 2-3x the internal volume, which seems to be the mistake most are making by judging the diameter of the 3.5mm opening compared to Lightning dimensions. Also, USB-C is more fragile, with an insertable plastic tongue subject to breaking off under strain. And USB-C is far from gurantees that it will be the connector of the future. Apple controls Lightning, and could keep it around for its mobile devices and peripherals long after the USB-C connector has been replaced by the latest greatest thing. For something like audio, Lightning provides a much more stable option. Moreover, Apple doesn't really allow desktop peripherals to be used with iOS devices now. So why would they encourage a common port for desktop and mobile accessories, which will likely be incompatible and may cause confusion? I would rather expect to see the ability to use iOS adapters on a Mac than vice versa, and adding a tiny Lightning port to a Mac a much easier prospect than the larger and more complex USB-C to a mobile device.

OK - so why are so many media outlets citing this as a benefit of lightning over the 3.5mm jack?

Others are correct in pointing out that there's no reason to remove the 3.5mm Jack to use an external Lightning DAC now. Of course Apple will likely equate the removal of it with higher quality audio, as they enable Lightning to natively support an external DAC more easily. But the biggest benifit is that increased demand for DAC dongles will increase competition and dramatically lower the prices. So for much less money, there will be a much greater variety of choice, at much lower prices, greater compatibility, and more ergonomic designs. So overall it's a good move for making higher quality audio available to more people.

You can't use a wireless headset on an airliner.

Of course you can.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
6,912
8,226
Thinner? Seriously? How thin is it goign to get before you can't even hold the d@mn thing anymore without dropping it or putting on a huge case?
 

groovyd

Suspended
Jun 24, 2013
1,227
621
Atlanta
Before people panic over Apple's obsession with thinness, realize removing the 3.5mm jack would save some internal space regardless of how thin the iPhone 7 will be. That means that the iPhone 7 could have the same thickness as the 6 while having a larger battery due to internal space saved.

Two components would be removed by this move, the relatively large 3.5mm jack module and the DAC (digital to analog converter), which would now be integrated in headphones rather than inside your phone. The DAC is one of the largest component on the PCB right now, I believe only the SoC, NAND and LTE modem are larger.

Personally, I don't think the iPhone 7 should be thinner than the 6, but I would still appreciate if the 3.5mm jack got removed.

On top of the saved internal space, moving to Lightning provides certain benefits:
  • Possibility of using a DAC that's better than the one in the iPhone in high-end headphones.
  • Less degradation due to the transmission through an analog cable. Also less likely to hear a hiss when moving the jack due to dust etc.
  • Possibility of headphones recharging your phone or vice-versa. Particularly useful for docks and soundboxes that both charge your phone and play music using a single cable.
  • Possibility of sending additional data from your headphones to your phone. Stuff like battery level in noise-cancelling headphones. Or increased reliability and features of headphone remotes.
Edit: Scratch that about the DAC removal part. As some have pointed, you still need it to use internal speakers. Apple may choose a lower-quality internal DAC that's significantly smaller though, since you don't need a good DAC just for speakers.

you forgot the biggest advantage being the precise matching of DAC/amp to the actual headphone drivers. No longer does the crossover for perhaps multi-driver phones need to be analog and a pure sink to ground power consumer but may be done in digital without loss of power and with higher order filters with lower phase shift.

the negative though is every time you buy a pair of headphones you are buying all of this stuff you used to not be buying making the cost of headphones go up but in the end it is all in the name of customizing that circuit for the drivers at your ear. in theory they 'should' sound much better.
 
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sledgehammer89

macrumors 6502
Jan 22, 2009
361
298
I hope it's so much waterproof that iPhone 7 can replace my GoPro for at least 5m under (salt) water. That's enough for me.

3.5mm? I use this last time on a Sony Walkman. It doesn't have Bluetooth.
 
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Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
5,360
2,930
I don't know if Apple can really drive the market towards Lightning headphones. And i don't know if they could achieve some sort of cross compatibility with USB/C, which could be going the same route for Audio. At least with USB C you would switch from the universal 3,5mm to another universal standard.

Apple isn't trying to drive the market towards Lightning audio. They're trying to drive the market toward wireless audio. And that's the mistake you and the competition are making. USB-C is far from being a universal standard. It's only the 5th iteration in the evolution of the USB port. And as Samsung and Android race to include it on their phones, in 3-5 years, if not sooner there will likely be a new, better one. This is fine for desktops, but bad for audio.

However, as usual, once the competition realizes what Apple's true target is, they will benifit from the wireless audio demand Apple has created by removing the 3.5mm Jack and the resulting better products, and lower prices. So in the end it won't matter if they have an outdated USB-C port, but their customers who bought USB-C headphones, instead of an adapter, might be a little upset.
[doublepost=1452268662][/doublepost]
you forgot the biggest advantage being the precise matching of DAC/amp to the actual headphone drivers. No longer does the crossover for perhaps multi-driver phones need to be analog and a pure sink to ground power consumer but may be done in digital without loss of power and with higher order filters with lower phase shift.

the negative though is every time you buy a pair of headphones you are buying all of this stuff you used to not be buying making the cost of headphones go up but in the end it is all in the name of customizing that circuit for the drivers at your ear. in theory they 'should' sound much better.

Exactly this. And as I point out, because of the increased demand, the quality of the products will go up, while the prices come down, due to increased competition, so your latter concern will be substantially mitigated.

Right now the DAC in the iPhone is a generic one that accommodates whatever is plugged into it. But who better to chose the DAC for their hardware than the headphone/speaker makers? Apple now only has to be responsible for the source playback, not the sound quality. This also applies to Bluetooth headphones as well.
 
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Jsameds

Suspended
Apr 22, 2008
3,525
7,987
Thinner? Seriously? How thin is it goign to get before you can't even hold the d@mn thing anymore without dropping it or putting on a huge case?

I have small hands and the problem with the 6S is not the thinness that makes it difficult to hold, it's the width. If they made iPhone thinner but also narrower then it would be easy to hold even for me.
 
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