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Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Apr 11, 2014
5,625
2,338
USA
In my last job, the coffee shop was where I got almost all of my work done. I sat and sipped coffee, read (and wrote) stuff, and made space for people who wanted to talk to me, and whom I wished to speak with in a comfortable - and most important this - a neutral, - and private - environment, none of which I could have done at my desk.

I am a huge fan of spending hours in coffee shops. Now, not necessarily, crowded, or fashionable coffee shops. But coffee shops that serve good coffee, have decent wifi, and where the people I wish to meet know they will be able to find me.

I mean to each his own. If someone can get work done in a coffee shop that's great.

I'm just saying I can't. I prefer a place where there is no noise and no people and preferably a wall in front me with nothing on it.

Kind of like those cubicles in the library.
 

colourfastt

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2009
1,047
964
I also notice the same thing here where I live. Maybe it's a city thing, and doesn't happen in rural areas. I see people holding and walking around with Starbuck cups like it's a fashion statement also.

And we all know that Apple has been a status symbol. To most people, Apple is an expensive brand. At least where I'm from and all the places I've been to, which are primarily major metropolitan areas. I even heard people and have friends who think of Apple as an elitist brand and think Apple user's are mostly picky and snobby people. It's a stereotype, but it's very common. Not that I care, I just find it funny.

I love Apple products myself and I am just making some observations and wanted to see how others feel when out in public and spotting the "typical" Apple user.

They range from all sorts of people, from the stylish hipsters, to the wanna-be CEO's who like to think they're so important, and to fashionable women who think they're a celebrity.

From Foamy the Squirrel:

" ... but you get the trendy StarSCHMUCKS coffee cup that you carry around like a status symbol ... man!"
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,251
46,680
In a coffee shop.
I respect your opinions and all, different strokes for different folks. But how do you justify a coffee shop being private? They're anything but. Anybody can walk in. :confused:

I find the whole concept of the public space - who has access to it, and under what conditions and with what permissions - extraordinarily interesting.

Now, I work abroad quite a lot, and - when I am abroad - a great many of my meetings take place in coffee shops, which can offer a neutral space where one can have a private conversation with an interlocutor.

It doesn't mean that the coffee shop is private, just that the conversation is likely to be.

Now, for serious writing, - writing that involves much thought and a lot of research and verification - I prefer solitude and privacy and silence.
 

mscriv

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2008
4,923
602
Dallas, Texas
Just out of curiosity, did you feel that those 4 people were showing off or were they just using their computers?

The thought that they were "showing off" never even crossed my mind. What I did reflect on was the seemingly strange correlation between Starbucks and Apple gear. I'm not a coffee drinker so I don't frequent Starbucks, but when I do find myself there the ratio of Apple to other brands always seems lopsided in the favor of Apple. It's an interesting observation, but I think speculating on the motives behind individuals reasoning for being there is quite silly. People go to Starbucks for the same reasons people go to every other coffee shop, to get some coffee, hang out, get some work done, etc.. In today's world our devices go with us everywhere so it's no suprise that you will see people using their devices at Starbucks.

Like most things in life correlation is not causation. Although we could come up with any number of fun logical word problems related to this topic...

True or False:
All Starbucks patrons are coffee drinkers. Some coffe drinkers are Apple device users. All Starbucks patrons are Apple device users? :D
 
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Melrose

Suspended
Dec 12, 2007
7,806
399
I respect your opinions and all, different strokes for different folks. But how do you justify a coffee shop being private? They're anything but. Anybody can walk in. :confused:

In an oddly unique way, busy, busy places are very private. As the volume of humanity in any given area rises, the desire (and general acceptance) of interacting with a random person beside you goes down, as much to protect your own space as it is your own presupposition that any given stranger is also trying to protect his or her space, and your unwillingness to intrude for fear of them lashing out or responding in a way you're not mentally equipped to respond to yourself. Sometimes, even issuing a brief "hi" is expected to bring a small exchange of pleasantries or gestures you simply don't want to be bothered with. As people become more conscious of their loss of close personal space they begin - voluntarily or involuntarily - to "put up walls" to protect what little space they perceive they have left, fighting viscously to keep it safe from intrusion. The funny thing is that this all happens subconsciously, based on our (perhaps erroneous) mammalian postulations that it's a Dog Eat Dog world and we have to maintain an upper hand 'in the wild' lest that ol' notion of 'fight or flight' breaks out.

Ergo, very densely populated places are more likely to result in fewer necessities for lily-gilding our speech with those personal touches that can potentially make communication so fun. Often, merely avoiding eye contact or even more subtle Do Not Disturb body language is all that is required to keep unwanted, pesky strangers at bay. Conversely, in low population areas you generally have more friendly, more talkative strangers (it's the whole "small town" ideal, after all).

In the case at hand, the same effect is in force: We visit a coffee shop and receive service congruent to the nature of the establishment: In a very public place like Starbucks we walk up to the Barista, we place the order using a rehearsed, utilitarian phrase, and we decide to leave.* Were we stopping at a small town diner for coffee, we take a private booth, the waitress often includes less impersonal chatter or even pseudo-affectionate addresses ("Hon'" or "Dear" come to mind), and it's almost expected to engage in conversation - however briefly or trite it might seem. As our choice of establishment becomes more full of people or more public, our desire to interact in a friendly, down-to-earth manner decreases. And this is why even busy, popular restaurants offer dark, private seating: To provide the haven and comfort of privacy in a sea of people - regardless of the size of the urban setting of the restaurant.

Therefore, what you perceive as a lack of privacy is actually your own belief that the general public is focusing more on you as an individual and less as simply a member of the faceless public one must endure while enjoying the small tediums of daily life - of ordering a coffee.

Did you want to talk about human nature or were you just making chit chat?

tldr:
The more people you have around the less likely you are to experience uninvited interaction.

*Starbucks prides itself on the friendliness of it's staff. We accept this - and even praise it - so long as it does not infringe on our perceived privacy. Were the staff to crank up the friendliness just a little to the borderline of 'gregarious' or 'outgoing', more than a few customers would be rubbed the wrong way and what was formerly simply "friendliness" and "professionalism" is now irritation and for some even irrational inner vehemence. And you thought you just went to a coffee shop and ordered a latte. : )

mscriv said:
What I did reflect on was the seemingly strange correlation between Starbucks and Apple gear.

The human mind is wired to match patterns and make assumptions based on previous experiences and observations - in so many cases, our minds take a sample of a few and form a general theory or rule and apply that to the whole thing.

It's very hard not to do it when it comes to people, but general patterns still manifest themselves in so many cases. The problem being, matching the pattern of "4 Apple laptops in a Starbucks" is significantly less politically incorrect (and dangerous or even outright wrong) than matching "4 black/latino/x men rob a convenience store." The inherent problem with this inborn nature of pattern matching is that while it may work a surprisingly large amount of the time when it comes to people, humans are by nature wild cards - and unlike scientific proofs, we have the ability to change ourselves. Lucky sods that we are.
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,251
46,680
In a coffee shop.
In an oddly unique way, busy, busy places are very private. As the volume of humanity in any given area rises, the desire (and general acceptance) of interacting with a random person beside you goes down, as much to protect your own space as it is your own presupposition that any given stranger is also trying to protect his or her space, and your unwillingness to intrude for fear of them lashing out or responding in a way you're not mentally equipped to respond to yourself. Sometimes, even issuing a brief "hi" is expected to bring a small exchange of pleasantries or gestures you simply don't want to be bothered with. As people become more conscious of their loss of close personal space they begin - voluntarily or involuntarily - to "put up walls" to protect what little space they perceive they have left, fighting viscously to keep it safe from intrusion. The funny thing is that this all happens subconsciously, based on our (perhaps erroneous) mammalian postulations that it's a Dog Eat Dog world and we have to maintain an upper hand 'in the wild' lest that ol' notion of 'fight or flight' breaks out.

Ergo, very densely populated places are more likely to result in fewer necessities for lily-gilding our speech with those personal touches that can potentially make communication so fun. Often, merely avoiding eye contact or even more subtle Do Not Disturb body language is all that is required to keep unwanted, pesky strangers at bay. Conversely, in low population areas you generally have more friendly, more talkative strangers (it's the whole "small town" ideal, after all).

In the case at hand, the same effect is in force: We visit a coffee shop and receive service congruent to the nature of the establishment: In a very public place like Starbucks we walk up to the Barista, we place the order using a rehearsed, utilitarian phrase, and we decide to leave. Were we stopping at a small town diner for coffee, we take a private booth, the waitress often includes less impersonal chatter, and it's almost expected to engage in conversation - however briefly or trite it might seem. As our choice of establishment becomes more full of people or more public, our desire to interact in a friendly, down-to-earth manner decreases.

Therefore, what you perceive as a lack of privacy is actually your own belief that the general public is focusing more on you as an individual and less as simply a member of the faceless public one must endure while enjoying the small tediums of daily life - of ordering a coffee.

Did you want to talk about human nature or were you just making chit chat?

tldr:
The more people you have around the less likely you are to experience uninvited interaction.



The human mind is wired to match patterns and make assumptions based on previous experiences and observations - in so many cases, our minds take a sample of a few and form a general theory or rule and apply that to the whole thing.

It's very hard not to do it when it comes to people, but general patterns still manifest themselves in so many cases. The problem being, matching the pattern of "4 Apple laptops in a Starbucks" is significantly less politically incorrect (and outright wrong) than matching "4 black men rob a convenience store." The inherent problem with this inborn nature of pattern matching is that while it may work a surprisingly large amount of the time when it comes to people, humans are by nature while cards - and unlike scientific proofs, we have the ability to change ourselves. Thank goodness.

Very good post, and excellent point (with which I agree) which you discuss and explore very well about responses to receiving uninvited interaction in crowded public spaces. And that is one of the reasons I love such places.

There is one exception to this, and it is almost invariably an older guy choosing to place himself or plonking himself at a table where there is a younger female, usually by herself, - irrespective of how unwelcoming she is signalling she finds such an approach - who persists in seeking her time and attention.
 

mscriv

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2008
4,923
602
Dallas, Texas
The human mind is wired to match patterns and make assumptions based on previous experiences and observations - in so many cases, our minds take a sample of a few and form a general theory or rule and apply that to the whole thing.

Very true. We definitely interact with the world based on our anecdotal experiences and the truths we have come to believe they reflect.
 

Melrose

Suspended
Dec 12, 2007
7,806
399
There is one exception to this, and it is almost invariably an older guy choosing to place himself or plonking himself at a table where there is a younger female, usually by herself, - irrespective of how unwelcoming she is signalling she finds such an approach - who persists in seeking her time and attention.

The truly remarkable thing about this proverbial Older Guy is that he's living proof that humans are "wild cards" - and it's these people that actually make our days more interesting - irritating or not with regard to their motives.

It may happen at an inopportune time, but nonetheless demonstrates the powerful effect even strangers can have our emotions, with so simple a gesture.

And that's when wild card humans become dangerous. :(
 

eko91

macrumors regular
Apr 3, 2015
149
7
Students

I know that a lot of college students go to Starbucks to study. And I know that majority of the college students get a Mac Book because Apple has a good deal for college students. Plus, a lot more people carry iPads, iMacs and apple products than other brands. Maybe thats why you are assuming that people go to Starbucks to show off their apple stuff.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,324
205
San Francisco, CA
This varies by location as well. Around here it's mainly high school kids that go to Starbucks. If you want to show off you go to one of the many local independent cafés and wait 25 minutes for your coffee. :p

We've got a couple of nice, large, quiet coffee shops around here - actually pretty conducive to getting work done, and a nice break away from the home office on occasion.

http://citycoffeeco.com

http://www.dosbar.com

In San Francisco there's a really cool café that is also a workspace. You pay $2 per hour to use the space and you can stay for as long as you want, you get your own reserved seat, you have fast, free wifi, access to printers and scanners and a couple of meeting rooms, I believe. You can also order coffee from your phone and get it delivered to your table.

They also have some free seating in front if you just want coffee or food.

I agree. I don't understand how anyone can get work done in crowded, noisy environments. :?

Personal preference. :) When I worked from home it felt a bit lonely to be home by myself all the time so sometimes I would go work at a café just to have some social interaction. I actually enjoyed the ambient noise. :D
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,463
Vilano Beach, FL
In San Francisco there's a really cool café that is also a workspace. You pay $2 per hour to use the space and you can stay for as long as you want, you get your own reserved seat, you have fast, free wifi, access to printers and scanners and a couple of meeting rooms, I believe. You can also order coffee from your phone and get it delivered to your table.

They also have some free seating in front if you just want coffee or food.

Nice. My last trip a few weeks ago to SF, we setup at ECO-SYSTM in SOMA, nice digs. Mind sharing the name of the place you're talking about? TIA :)

Personal preference. :) When I worked from home it felt a bit lonely to be home by myself all the time so sometimes I would go work at a café just to have some social interaction. I actually enjoyed the ambient noise. :D

I need a little background noise too. Even at my home office I almost always have a TV running the in background, or phones with music, podcasts if I want a little more isolation.
 

Melrose

Suspended
Dec 12, 2007
7,806
399
Personal preference. :) When I worked from home it felt a bit lonely to be home by myself all the time so sometimes I would go work at a café just to have some social interaction. I actually enjoyed the ambient noise. :D

That's more like what it is back home, right?
 

determined09

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,454
312
I hide my Apple Stuff except for my Iphone 6. :D

----------

I hide my Apple Stuff except for my Iphone 6. I'm scared that someone will be watching me and following me home. And robe me at home
 

abuskeletor

macrumors regular
Apr 20, 2015
102
0
United States
I can't write when it's quiet. It doesn't have to be Starbucks, but any place with an available outlet, coffee, and that will let me work uninterrupted is, to me, so much better than the quiet of home. I don't know why, but I need the background noise.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,324
205
San Francisco, CA
I can't write when it's quiet. It doesn't have to be Starbucks, but any place with an available outlet, coffee, and that will let me work uninterrupted is, to me, so much better than the quiet of home. I don't know why, but I need the background noise.

Exactly. Plus home isn't exactly quiet either. There's a really annoying yappy dog next-door. :mad:
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,543
9,710
Boston
I know that a lot of college students go to Starbucks to study. And I know that majority of the college students get a Mac Book because Apple has a good deal for college students. Plus, a lot more people carry iPads, iMacs and apple products than other brands. Maybe thats why you are assuming that people go to Starbucks to show off their apple stuff.

I live in Boston aka College Town, every Starbucks is filled with College kids studying. The Starbucks in Harvard Square is HUGE and is jam packed with a hundred people sitting at their laptops. Many of them happen to be apple, but I suspect no more than the percentage I see (saw) in the library at school. To be fair, I never see much studying at Dunkin Donuts.

Panera Bread is much like Starbucks with the laptops. I agree that most of these people are college kids and Apple computers are more popular amongst the younger generation than the older.

I never understood how people could study with all that noise.

----------

I kind of like being disrobed ...

I prefer this as well, in the sense of the verb rather than the adjective.
 
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