MacBook Pros with Thunderbolt, ATI/AMD Graphics?

[twcbc]

As long as Apple do not implement OpenGL 3.X and GPU hardware decoder support in OSX driver level. I see no different, no matter it's Nvidia, ATI/AMD or Intel. Sadly, all GPU still run like crap under OSX.

 

[veth]

So Nvidia two days ago announced new professional graphics cards(chips?) for Sandy Bridge laptops. New Quadro Mobile GPUs that are positioned for professional software (CAD, 3D Animations, movie editing) and offer certified drivers.
So why aren't these being offered on the "Pro" Apple laptops? WTF?!?

The new cards:

Quadro 5010M (Ultra-High End): 384 CUDA Cores; 4 GByte GDDR5-Memory; ECC and DP Support
Quadro 4000M (High End): 336 CUDA Cores; 2 GByte GDDR5-Memory
Quadro 3000M (High End): 240 CUDA Cores; 2 GByte GDDR5-Memory
Quadro 2000M (Mid-Range): 192 CUDA Cores; 2 GByte DDR3-Memory
Quadro 1000M (Mid-Range): 96 CUDA Cores; 2 GByte DDR3-Memory

http://www.nvidia.com/quadromobile

Press Release

MEDIA ALERT NVIDIA Quadro Powers New Era of Mobile Super Computers

New Line of Professional Mobile Graphics Solutions Built on NVIDIA Fermi Architecture and Optimus Technology

SANTA CLARA, Calif. — February 22, 2011 —NVIDIA announced today a new line of Quadro® professional graphics solutions for mobile workstations. Designed for engineers, industrial designers, animators, and film & video editors that need to take their work with them, these new Quadro graphics processing units (GPUs) leverage the NVIDIA Fermi architecture, which combines fast visualization performance with high performance computing capabilities. This massively parallel processing horsepower transforms laptop computers into mobile super computers.

Featuring twice the number of CUDATM cores and twice the graphics memory over previous generations, these new Quadro GPUs also incorporate NVIDIA OptimusTM technology, maximizing battery life by automatically powering the GPU only when needed. Optimus also provides users with the ability to drive up to four displays at the same time.

Building on a decade of innovation and leadership in professional mobile graphics, the new Quadro line of mobile graphics solutions includes:

Quadro 5010M (Ultra-High End): 384 CUDA cores; 4 GB GDDR5 memory; designed for new 17.3-inch mobile workstations

Quadro 4000M (High End): 336 CUDA cores; 2 GB GDDR5 memory; designed for new 17.3-inch mobile workstations

Quadro 3000M (High End): 240 CUDA cores; 2 GB GDDR5 memory; designed for new 17.3-inch mobile workstations

Quadro 2000M (Mid-Range): 192 CUDA cores; 2 GB DDR3 memory; designed for 15.6-inch mobile workstations

Quadro 1000M (Mid-Range): 96 CUDA cores; 2 GB DDR3 memory; designed for 15.6-inch mobile workstations

“Year after year, NVIDIA innovations demonstrate true technology leadership,” said Dr. Jon Peddie, president of Jon Peddie Research. “Optimus is perfect for anyone who needs high performance, long battery life, and additional displays. With this new Quadro mobile lineup based on the Fermi architecture, NVIDIA is poised to continue its dominance in mobile workstation graphics.”

The new standard for mobile workstation graphics excellence—the NVIDIA Quadro 5010M

The flagship Quadro 5010M features Error Correction Code (ECC) and fast, 64-bit double precision capabilities to ensure the greatest accuracy and fidelity of results. From medical imaging to structural analysis applications, data integrity and precision is assured, without sacrificing performance.The Quadro 5010M features an unprecedented 4 GB of fast GDDR5 memory to enable interactivity on the largest projects. Shattering previous 3D graphics benchmarks, professionals on the go can achieve nearly a billion triangles per second with this ultra high-end Quadro mobile graphics solution.

NVIDIA Quadro technology creates mobile super computers

Similar to the NVIDIA Quadro 5000M, the groundbreaking NVIDIA Fermi-based mobile workstation graphics solution announced last year, and currently available in both the Dell Precision M6500 and HP EliteBook 8740w mobile workstations, additional features of these new NVIDIA Quadro mobile professional graphics solutions include:

The NVIDIA CUDA parallel computing architecture – Quadro mobile GPUs deliver massive performance gains when running computationally intensive applications such as ray tracing, video processing and computational fluid dynamics.

NVIDIA 3D VisionTM Pro – support for the highest quality, stereoscopic viewing experience is helping drive the development of 3D capable visualization applications from companies such as Autodesk, Dassault Systemes, Siemens and Agilent.

NVIDIA Scalable Geometry EngineTM technology – dramatically improves performance across a broad range of CAD, DCC and scientific applications, enabling a user’s work to flow interactively with models and scenes that are an order of magnitude more complex than ever before.

NVIDIA GPU Tessellation Engine technology – with support for OpenGL 4.1, Shader Model 5.0 and DirectX 11, tessellation automatically generates finely detailed geometry for cinematic quality environments and scenes without sacrificing performance.

Application certification - support for the broadest spectrum of professional applications, including those utilizing OpenGL 4.1, Shader Model 5.0, and Microsoft DirectX 11, plus DirectCompute and OpenCL standards. Companies such as Adobe, Autodesk, and Dassault Systemes certify NVIDIA Quadro solutions for professionals whose livelihoods depend on maximum uptime with their applications.

Mobile workstation manufacturers have relied on NVIDIA GPUs for the past decade, and will integrate these Quadro solutions in their newest mobile workstations scheduled to be announced throughout 2011. For more information about NVIDIA and Quadro Mobile Graphics Solutions, please visit http://www.nvidia.com/quadromobile.

 

[Eduardo1971]

I like Light Peak better than Thunderbolt.

I agree. In my opinion, Light Peak sounds 'cooler' than Thunderbolt.

 

[Steveorevo]

I have a Mobility Radeon 5870 in my Asus G73JH and have problems with it (GSOD) so I hope this time, they took the time to properly test it.

How is it with Apple and drivers? Do they use generic or have their own modified versions?

ATI hardware is ok. The software drivers generally suck on PC WinTel boxes. I'd go as far to say that their engineers have a large turnover in that department as their interface, code and functionality are NEVER consistent.

Thankfully, Apple is VERY keen on fine-tuning ATI drivers and does not leverage or install any ATI branded trial/crapware. In fact, ATI is known as a great card on the sole basis of being used in Apple products. They are also used by Nintendo and have excellent performance history. But its 99% software that they DID NOT write that made them great on those platforms. If judged by Windows PCs alone, they wouldn't fair too well.

In the PC world they are absolutely horrible, complete with misc. bloatware galore, and that is why NVidia shines with amazing performance on WintTel boxes. Personally, if you use Boot Camp at all, and are forced to use 'ATI native drivers' then you are pretty much **********d. As ATI under windows is about 1/8 of what it should be and their drivers 'Hydra', ATI Control panel, ATI Vue, ATI Window manager enhancer, ATI Tray Icon AutoUpdater/Picture Enhancer, volume controlbar, browser toolbar Add-on, all-in-one PDF Word Document viewer, DVD drive silencer, Super 2000 edition lite++... you'll want to do without. Unfortunately there is never an uninstaller (that works) for any of their WinTel drivers. But at least they stopped bundling AOL dial up service with their cards. Classy.

Thank your lucky stars that Apple has something to say when it comes to the drivers and software that gets installed for their hardware.

 

[mabaker]

ATI graphic cards have historically had better driver support than their nvidia counterparts. I’m glad.

 

[Steve121178]

ATI graphic cards have historically had better driver support than their nvidia counterparts. I’m glad.

 

[robertbrian23]

youve been on macrumors for 6 years and are only just saying this NOW!?

i was passing anyway, so ah well.

bring on the iMac upgrades.

me too. next up iMac. i just got the 2010 MBP model anyway

 

[billgates99]

snip

So do the new NVIDIA workstation laptop cards make use of the CS5 Mercury Playback Engine for GPU accelerated tasks?

How about the non-Quadro laptop cards?

I was pretty shocked that Apple went with the Radeon cards for the MacPro, considering they are a lot slower than the top tier NVIDIA desktop cards when working in CS5.

I have a Radeon 5830M in my Envy, which is a pretty good card for gaming, but CS5 seems to heavily favor NVIDIA cards.

 

[veth]

So do the new NVIDIA workstation laptop cards make use of the CS5 Mercury Playback Engine for GPU accelerated tasks?

How about the non-Quadro laptop cards?

I was pretty shocked that Apple went with the Radeon cards for the MacPro, considering they are a lot slower than the top tier NVIDIA desktop cards when working in CS5.

Adobe Mercury Playback Engine is based on NVIDIA CUDA technology.

look here: http://www.nvidia.com/object/builtforadobepros.html

 

[nyctravis]

Sorry if I missed it already, but now that the new MBP's are launched, what is the general opinion on the 6750M?

 

[MBX]

There goes my CUDA i used for GPU BOINC@home computing

I assume overall the gain will be significant enough though

 

[veth]

Sorry if I missed it already, but now that the new MBP's are launched, what is the general opinion on the 6750M?

here you go: http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6750M.43958.0.html

"The 480 Stream processors should be still based on the "old" 5D architecture similar to the 5000 series. Therefore, the number of shaders is not comparable to the 1D cores of current Nvidia GPUs."

*sighs*

 

[archurban]

I am surprised Apple changed to AMD. I know well about graphic card. every day, practically, AMD card is more stable, less pain in the ass. however, I just wonder why Apple removed independent graphic card from 13inch. it has only intel HD 3000? it's basically stem from Intel HD GMA 3000 architecture. what they did is redesigned for Sandy bridge structure. but it is still class 3 graphic which is even bad from NVIDIA 320M (previously Apple used). just take a look at this whole bench marking.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-3000.37948.0.html

do you think that it is not so bad. but it is actually especially, when it comes to $1199 price tag, nobody wants to buy it. even around $800 laptop has better graphic card. I don't care thunderbolt whatever because it is new, won't be popular like USB. unfortunately, port is only Apple design. it's not universal. by the way, what happened to battery life? from 10 hours to 7 hours?

 

[Chwisch87]

DEAR GOD people. The ATi Graphics driver issue was a one off think a few years ago and for some reason they have never been able to shake the reputation. AMD graphics drivers are more often that not better than current nVidia drivers. AMD gpus, in terms of die space are far more powerful than nVidia in terms of performance. (amd needs less die to get the same numbers nvidia gets).

why did apple choose them? because that smaller die = better yields and lower cost. nVidia has not been able to keep up with AMD on price since the 5000 series. Plus, their new architecture is a POWER HOG! lol. Its why its been a total disaster in the mobile space and while yes they improved it all in the 500 series, AMD still makes far more power efficient GPUs. Less power, Less Cost, Plus great performance?? if you were a laptop maker you would be stupid not to go with AMD.

And for all of you who say CUDA?? What do you actually use that for? not much..

Seriously folks, the drivers are fine lol.

 

[Crunch]

Well Well Well...

Looks like we didn't get the OS X on an SSD, nor did we get the "option to diss the optical drive (Super Drive) in favor of an SSD", nor did we get IPS screens, and the darn 17" are $200 MORE expensive. Grrr....

Anyone like what we got? Thunderbolt/Light Peak is awesome, for sure, and quad-core i7's are also welcome, but I'd still like the option of a dual-core i5/i7 for less $$$.

Anyone upgrading to the new 17" version and wanting to dump their 17" MBP (the now previous edition)? Please holler at me.

lol...

 

[vidkun]

So the 13" doesn't come with a discrete graphics card, but does it still have a location to add one ourselves after buying?

 

[chrmjenkins]

So Nvidia two days ago announced new professional graphics cards(chips?) for Sandy Bridge laptops. New Quadro Mobile GPUs that are positioned for professional software (CAD, 3D Animations, movie editing) and offer certified drivers.
So why aren't these being offered on the "Pro" Apple laptops? WTF?!?

*snip*

Because they're insanely expensive. Nvidia will charge up to 1000 for their professional Quadro cards. They already charge around $800 for their top-end 485M. AMD probably offered a better price for similar performance to what apple wanted.

 

[job]

So the 13" doesn't come with a discrete graphics card, but does it still have a location to add one ourselves after buying?

What?

The Macbook and Macbook Pro line has never had the ability to add to or upgrade the graphics card.

 

[BTW]

Interesting the Apple is back with ATI (err AMD). This is like a ping-pong match of Apple going back and forth between suppliers. If that gets them the better deal then great.

 

[DoFoT9]

Interesting the Apple is back with ATI (err AMD). This is like a ping-pong match of Apple going back and forth between suppliers. If that gets them the better deal then great.

i dont think thats apple's choice, they do love nvidia - but there was the big cufuffle between intel and nvidia, so yeh..

 

[Yebubbleman]

I AM a gamer. Thats why I recently built my own desktop and my MacBook has now become a secondary system.

My experience has always been that nvidia drivers are dramatically better than ATI/AMD. I've tried several different ATI/AMD GPUs in Windows and there has always been some sort of game ending driver problem, or the performance just wasn't as good as it should be thanks to drivers.

nvidia drivers in Windows, for me, have always been 100% stable. Every new release has always come with some sort of improvement.

I'm not talking about Windows drivers, I'm talking about Mac drivers. I have no doubt that NVIDIA's Windows drivers are awesome. I haven't had bad experiences with the Radeon HD 5 series cards and their drivers on Windows. Currently the 3450 at work is choking on the driver I downloaded with Catalyst which I installed because the incumbent driver decided to become misplaced. Yay for Windows! But again, I digress, I've never had any problem on a Mac that was a result of bad AMD drivers. Then again, I've never had that with an NVIDIA based Mac either, though I take that with a grain of salt as the Mac mini in my signature is my first and so far only NVIDIA Mac.

Because they're insanely expensive. Nvidia will charge up to 1000 for their professional Quadro cards. They already charge around $800 for their top-end 485M. AMD probably offered a better price for similar performance to what apple wanted.

AMD offers a better bang for buck on all of their products, CPU, Video Card or otherwise. And it looks like the Radeon HD 6750M beats the previous incumbent GeForce GT 330M on benchmarks, and frankly, that's all that really matters. Where they put in weaker graphics (on the 13" Pro and lower-end 15" Pro), I'm not stoked.

Interesting the Apple is back with ATI (err AMD). This is like a ping-pong match of Apple going back and forth between suppliers. If that gets them the better deal then great.

Again, as long as the performance on the card that they use is better than the card of the previous and as long as we don't have a PC industry-wide blunder with whatever chip they use like we did with the GeForce 8600M GT, I'm fine.

i dont think thats apple's choice, they do love nvidia - but there was the big cufuffle between intel and nvidia, so yeh..

The cufuffle (great word, btw) was about chipsets and INTEGRATED graphics processors, not discrete GPUs, hence why in the Mid 2010 15" and 17" machines, an Intel chipset was used alongside a discrete NVIDIA GPU instead of with NVIDIA having made both parts as in the Late 2008 and Early/Mid 2009 models.

 

[Gyde]

And for all of you who say CUDA?? What do you actually use that for? not much..

Some use it for video editing in Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 (Mercury Playback Engine).

Info from nVidia
Info from Adobe

 

[iDZignit]

ATI Hardware sucks! I was a big fan of AMD...

Never liked ATI, mostly due to the buggy drivers I had used in past. And all that experience has been on Windows side of the world. I'm now into the duel boot abilities of Apple & Boot camp. nVidia has always had better drivers & hardware. This is yet another jab at Adobe.

http://nofilmschool.com/2010/07/apple-snubs-adobe-again-with-new-mac-pros/

My Mid(2009) MBP is starting to show some age.
Thought I was peruse the new wares...not ever going to opt for ATI/AMD.
...unless AMD can change things...

 

[SuprUsrStan]

way to necro a long dead topic.