[Mid 2012] 15" MacBook Pro Retina 2.7GHz w/ 16GB RAM - Owners?

[zettabyte]

Any fellow Mid 2012 Fully maxed out rMBP owners out there? Am I alone? ...about extinct? j/k

I'm wanting to upgrade to the new rMBP, but do I really need it? (Thinking out loud to get your input.)

My current daily driver is a fully maxed out iMac w/ 5k Display for when I'm at home.

I travel on average twice a month and depend heavily on my rMBP for my editing...Having the horsepower on tap is very important to my line of work when traveling.

Note: When I do a refresh every few years, I only buy Apple fully maxed out. Is it time or wait it out?

As the new rMBP has just been refreshed, it's a good time to buy...hmmmm

My current 15" rMBP:

• Intel i7-3820QM "22nm Ivy Bridge" (2.7GHz w/ Turbo Boost to 3.7GHz) w/ 256k L2 cache + 8MB L3 cache
• 1TB OWC SSD HD
• 16GB RAM - 1600MHz DDR3L
• WiFi upto only "N."
  
• NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M w/ 1GB dedicated GDDR5
• Intel HD Graphics 4000 w/ memory shared with the system.

Newly refreshed 15" rMBP as of July 2015:

• Intel i7-4980HQ "22nm Haswell/Crystalwell: (2.8GHz w/ Turbo Boost to 4.0GHz) w/ 256k L2 cache + 6MB L3 cache
• 1TB PCIe-based Flash SSD
• 16GB RAM - 1600MHz DDR3L
• WiFi w/ "AC"
  
• AMD Radeon R9 M370X w/ 2GB dedicated GDDR5
• Intel Iris Pro Graphics

Although my Mid 2012 is almost 4 years old, it still hangs with most of the cars on the Nürburgring track for the most part, but it's the new turbo (I'm referring to the Graphics Card in this case) that really makes the difference...and this is why I'm looking for a refresh...

Something is telling me though to wait it out as the graphic cards are getting more and more beefier, so it seems. Along with...

• With the USB-C hitting the surface, I'd imagine the next refresh (rMBP) having these standard? Yes? No? I'd say yes as the new MacBook already features a USB-C. This is just the beginning...
  
  
• Though there isn't much to fix really on the amazing IPS retina screen resolution (Thank to LG), I can only imagine that Apple will soon bump up the screen resolution? There are laptops already on the market with more resolution than Apple.

I think maybe waiting for the USB-C to be fully implemented across the board would be the best future-proof choice eh? Can you imagine? How about 10 USB-C ports running along both sides of the rMBP -- LOL. j/k. Point being that it's possible because it can do everything.

Well guys...I'm all ears....AND if there are any species left from my island (Fully maxed Mid2012 rMBP owners), give me a shout! I can't imagine there being a lot...but who knows...

p.s. In the meantime...boost up the PSI on the Turbo? *Overclock the Beast?* Cough.... Did someone say something? Rofl....

Cheers...

 

[yjchua95]

Any fellow Mid 2012 Fully maxed out rMBP owners out there? Am I alone? ...about extinct? j/k

I'm wanting to upgrade to the new rMBP, but do I really need it? (Thinking out loud to get your input.)

My current daily driver is a fully maxed out iMac w/ 5k Display for when I'm at home.

I travel on average twice a month and depend heavily on my rMBP for my editing...Having the horsepower on tap is very important to my line of work when traveling.

Note: When I do a refresh every few years, I only buy Apple fully maxed out. Is it time or wait it out?

As the new rMBP has just been refreshed, it's a good time to buy...hmmmm

My current 15" rMBP:

• Intel i7-3820QM "22nm Ivy Bridge" (2.7GHz w/ Turbo Boost to 3.7GHz) w/ 256k L2 cache + 8MB L3 cache
• 1TB OWC SSD HD
• 16GB RAM - 1600MHz DDR3L
• WiFi upto only "N."
  
• NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M w/ 1GB dedicated GDDR5
• Intel HD Graphics 4000 w/ memory shared with the system.

Newly refreshed 15" rMBP as of July 2015:

• Intel i7-4980HQ "22nm Haswell/Crystalwell: (2.8GHz w/ Turbo Boost to 4.0GHz) w/ 256k L2 cache + 6MB L3 cache
• 1TB PCIe-based Flash SSD
• 16GB RAM - 1600MHz DDR3L
• WiFi w/ "AC"
  
• AMD Radeon R9 M370X w/ 2GB dedicated GDDR5
• Intel Iris Pro Graphics

Although my Mid 2012 is almost 4 years old, it still hangs with most of the cars on the Nürburgring track for the most part, but it's the new turbo (I'm referring to the Graphics Card in this case) that really makes the difference...and this is why I'm looking for a refresh...

Something is telling me though to wait it out as the graphic cards are getting more and more beefier, so it seems. Along with...

• With the USB-C hitting the surface, I'd imagine the next refresh (rMBP) having these standard? Yes? No? I'd say yes as the new MacBook already features a USB-C. This is just the beginning...
  
  
• Though there isn't much to fix really on the amazing IPS retina screen resolution (Thank to LG), I can only imagine that Apple will soon bump up the screen resolution? There are laptops already on the market with more resolution than Apple.

I think maybe waiting for the USB-C to be fully implemented across the board would be the best future-proof choice eh? Can you imagine? How about 10 USB-C ports running along both sides of the rMBP -- LOL. j/k. Point being that it's possible because it can do everything.

Well guys...I'm all ears....AND if there are any species left from my island (Fully maxed Mid2012 rMBP owners), give me a shout! I can't imagine there being a lot...but who knows...

p.s. In the meantime...boost up the PSI on the Turbo? *Overclock the Beast?* Cough.... Did someone say something? Rofl....

Cheers...

If I were you, I'd wait it out until Skylake. Skylake is reported to bring massive changes, namely:
1. Iris Pro 7200
2. DDR4 RAM
3. USB-C and TB3 (both will have the same form factor)
4. A possible revert back to NVIDIA.

 

[zettabyte]

If I were you, I'd wait it out until Skylake. Skylake is reported to bring massive changes, namely:
1. Iris Pro 7200
2. DDR4 RAM
3. USB-C and TB3 (both will have the same form factor)
4. A possible revert back to NVIDIA.

Indeed. Yes........That's what I was thinking .... At this point, I can just see myself with major buyers remorse if I pull the trigger to buy it now....

Thanks mate.

 

[maflynn]

I too am a 2012 rMBP owner with 16GB of ram. At this point on the fence for getting a skylake based machine this fall, an iMac or a windows machine. I've said this multiple teams, so forgive me if I sound like I'm beating a dead horse. Given the high price of the rMBP (and iMac), I want to be sure I'm getting value for my money.

If I buy a new computer this fall (provided skylake machines roll out of apple), then my current setup lasted 3 1/2 years. Should I spend over 2,000 for a machine that will have a life span of 3 years or should I spend 600 to 800 for a windows machine that I'll expect to last 3 years.

I'm not trying to derail the discussion into a PC vs. Mac debate but rather point out for me, I'm still vetting out how best to use my money to fit my needs.

 

[zettabyte]

I too am a 2012 rMBP owner with 16GB of ram. At this point on the fence for getting a skylake based machine this fall, an iMac or a windows machine. I've said this multiple teams, so forgive me if I sound like I'm beating a dead horse. Given the high price of the rMBP (and iMac), I want to be sure I'm getting value for my money.

If I buy a new computer this fall (provided skylake machines roll out of apple), then my current setup lasted 3 1/2 years. Should I spend over 2,000 for a machine that will have a life span of 3 years or should I spend 600 to 800 for a windows machine that I'll expect to last 3 years.

I'm not trying to derail the discussion into a PC vs. Mac debate but rather point out for me, I'm still vetting out how best to use my money to fit my needs.

I understand. I have a custom desktop that I've built running Linux at my office and it's fully maxed "to-date," spec wise for a lot less than a fully maxed Mac Pro. However, as a fan of OSX and the quality of Apple machines, the cost never gets to me if it's under 5 Grand. Would I ever buy a fully maxed Mac Pro for $10,000? To be honest, NO. That would be silly in anyway you cut it. But, when it comes to Apple, you're paying for the innovation and quality along with a UI that is IMO the best "skin" out there with respect to Linux etc... I would never go Windows for more reasons I can care to count.

As for waiting it out for the Skylake to be released, I am eager to see the major changes to the configuration of the entire DNA of MBP itself. Especially with the new USB-C rolling out....or having already rolled out I should say...

Buying an Apple machine is like buying a well crafted German Engineered BMW M Series as oppose to a domestic slapped together Ford Mustang. (No offense, it's just an illustration.) Sure you could get a comparable domestic with similar horsepower, but at the end of the day, it's just not the same. Quality, reliability, stability and true performance output for years to come. (Not that BMW's are the most reliable, but what I'm referring to is the overall synergy of an Euro high end import.) That's what you get with an Apple. It's the German Engineering of the bunch vs a pop tart Detroit slap together job.

Now are other computer brands catching up? Yes. HP and Samsung both have very good quality laptops that will last longer than what we're used to seeing in the older plastic rubbish laptops. Well you can even see it today with a low end Dell for example. It's terrible. But still at the end of the day, Apple has a machine that is one of a kind to this day.

 

[maflynn]

Buying an Apple machine is like buying a well crafted German Engineered BMW M5 as oppose to a domestic slapped together Ford Mustang. .

Two things, a Ford Mustang is not a slapped together car and I don't think the car analogy really fits computers, apples and oranges.

Secondly if both products are expected to last the same amount of time, why spend 3x more on one. Given the long running issues with the dGPU apple has had, heat problems and the anti reflective coating flaking off on some folk's computer, I'm a little apprehensive.

I love the MBPs but I'm having a hard time justifying my purchase

 

[yjchua95]

I understand. I have a custom desktop that I've built running Linux at my office and it's fully maxed "to-date," spec wise for a lot less than a fully maxed Mac Pro. However, as a fan of OSX and the quality of Apple machines, the cost never gets to me if it's under 5 Grand. Would I ever buy a fully maxed Mac Pro for $10,000? To be honest, NO. That would be silly in anyway you cut it. But, when it comes to Apple, you're paying for the innovation and quality along with a UI that is IMO the best "skin" out there with respect to Linux etc... I would never go Windows for more reasons I can care to count.

As for waiting it out for the Skylake to be released, I am eager to see the major changes to the configuration of the entire DNA of MBP itself. Especially with the new USB-C rolling out....or having already rolled out I should say...

Buying an Apple machine is like buying a well crafted German Engineered BMW M Series as oppose to a domestic slapped together Ford Mustang. (No offense, it's just an illustration.) Sure you could get a comparable domestic with similar horsepower, but at the end of the day, it's just not the same. Quality, reliability, stability and true performance output for years to come. (Not that BMW's are the most reliable, but what I'm referring to is the overall synergy of an Euro high end import.) That's what you get with an Apple. It's the German Engineering of the bunch vs a pop tart Detroit slap together job.

Now are other computer brands catching up? Yes. HP and Samsung both have very good quality laptops that will last longer than what we're used to seeing in the older plastic rubbish laptops. Well you can even see it today with a low end Dell for example. It's terrible. But still at the end of the day, Apple has a machine that is one of a kind to this day.

Regarding the BMW comment, I beg to differ.

My F10 M5 has been solid, but half the time, it gives me electronic problems (iDrive crashing, faulty sensors like DSC and TPM sensors....etc). On the other hand, my Volvo S60 has been really solid and has never broken down on me.

Anyway, that's beside the point. My work-issued laptop was an early-2013 Ivy Bridge 15" rMBP (2.4/8/256), and even this lower-specced rMBP still handles almost everything that I throw at it. So yeah, Apple products generally tend to last pretty well.

 

[zettabyte]

Two things, a Ford Mustang is not a slapped together car and I don't think the car analogy really fits computers, apples and oranges.

Secondly if both products are expected to last the same amount of time, why spend 3x more on one. Given the long running issues with the dGPU apple has had, heat problems and the anti reflective coating flaking off on some folk's computer, I'm a little apprehensive.

Ah I saw it coming. No pun intended. I like car analogies because everyone can relate for the most part. But, it's obviously a hit and a miss...

Most importantly, let's stay on topic.

The issues you've mentioned only apply to some and not all for the flaking and heat issues. I for one have never had any issues with any of my Apple products as long as I've owned them. So the fact that there are issues is completely irrelevant to this topic. You can spend 3x less (which I'm with you) on building a system, but it too can have any of the common issues that Apple has. It's obsolete.

So to stay on topic, I think it's best to wait it out and to see what the future holds for Apple and other Manufacturers. It shall be very interesting...

One thing is for sure though, I will either buy the rMBP with Skylake and/or buy a custom configured Alienware laptop + a rMBP 13". We'll see....

 

[zettabyte]

Regarding the BMW comment, I beg to differ.

My F10 M5 has been solid, but half the time, it gives me electronic problems (iDrive crashing, faulty sensors like DSC and TPM sensors....etc). On the other hand, my Volvo S60 has been really solid and has never broken down on me.

Anyway, that's beside the point. My work-issued laptop was an early-2013 Ivy Bridge 15" rMBP (2.4/8/256), and even this lower-specced rMBP still handles almost everything that I throw at it. So yeah, Apple products generally tend to last pretty well.

I love Volvo's LOL....ahhh...the car analogy was obviously an unneeded open can of worms that didn't need to be opened. My mistake.

Anyhow...yes ...On topic... the funny thing about Ivy Bridge is that it seems this was the last "Big Block," so to speak before they went haywire on efficiency etc....as a lot of over clocking maniacs tend to still favor the Ivy Bridge over the newer generation chips for OC...

It is a unique breed for sure....

 

[maflynn]

So yeah, Apple products generally tend to last pretty well.

I agree - in my case the rMBP is only 3 years old - so I should be less inclined to replace it. If I get in the habit of replacing a computer every three years then it makes less sense to spend 2k when I can spend 800.

The issues you've mentioned only apply to some and not all for the flaking and heat issues. I for one have never had any issues with any of my Apple products as long as I've owned them. So the fact that there are issues is completely irrelevant to this topic. You can spend 3x less (which I'm with you) on building a system, but it too can have any of the common issues that Apple has. It's obsolete.

I disagree, I think the issues mentioned are pertinent to the discussion because we're talking about spending a lot of money on a machine that you mentioned was a highly crafted piece of workmanship. While I've been lucky enough not to have those issues, I am a little on pins and needles with the GPU because Apple has such a poor track record with dGPUs. That's one reason why I'm thinking of upgrading to a newer model.

I'm not knocking apple on this, just stating the record, if I do opt for a rMBP it will definitely be iGPU only at this point.

 

[zettabyte]

I agree - in my case the rMBP is only 3 years old - so I should be less inclined to replace it. If I get in the habit of replacing a computer every three years then it makes less sense to spend 2k when I can spend 800.



I disagree, I think the issues mentioned are pertinent to the discussion because we're talking about spending a lot of money on a machine that you mentioned was a highly crafted piece of workmanship. While I've been lucky enough not to have those issues, I am a little on pins and needles with the GPU because Apple has such a poor track record with dGPUs. That's one reason why I'm thinking of upgrading to a newer model.

I'm not knocking apple on this, just stating the record, if I do opt for a rMBP it will definitely be iGPU only at this point.

Well that is all subjective. The premium cost of Apple, staying within reason, is not even a topic of discussion for most people and I agree that it does not negate the fact that one could build a system for 3x less. The point here is that you're not going to get OSX with your 3x less machine so it's all up to the "single" fact of whether you want OSX or not. (Yes I know you can rig this and that to run OSX, but that's beside the point.)

For me I prefer OSX for my daily computing...so I will buy Apple no matter the cost, with the exception of a fully maxed $10,000 Mac Pro. If you're spending this much anyway, there has to be a darn good reason for it. For ~5K USD, any rMBP is more than adequate to handle any of my editing tasks.

Therefore...I'll buy Apple without even thinking twice about the price, because I know what I'll be getting with an UI that I find to be the most pleasing to me.

So to stay on topic, I think it's safe to say that it'd be foolish for anyone to buy a rMBP now when there are major changes coming with some of the things yjchua95 had mentioned above. The USB-C is going to be a major game changer and the transition is inevitable. Let alone the new 14nm architecture. This will be a major break through....exciting times.

 

[dma550]

I have the same spec myself, maxed mid 2012. It is still going strong, I run 1-2 VM's concurrently and am generally a very heavy user. I am using it to develop lightly on the apple side and hard on windows, and generate 3d printing related files.

I poked my head back in for the same reason, I normally refresh machines every 2 years, I came from an Alienware M17xR2 before this. Having a water cooled desktop with a 980GTX, I don't see too much reason to jump ship just yet because of a moderately better graphics card. The 750G SSD in my current machine is very fast, so although the new SSD is faster, none of it is the incremental bump I like when upgrading to make the whole shuffle worth it. So yes, me as well, "waiting for skylake"

 

[zettabyte]

I have the same spec myself, maxed mid 2012. It is still going strong, I run 1-2 VM's concurrently and am generally a very heavy user. I am using it to develop lightly on the apple side and hard on windows, and generate 3d printing related files.

I poked my head back in for the same reason, I normally refresh machines every 2 years, I came from an Alienware M17xR2 before this. Having a water cooled desktop with a 980GTX, I don't see too much reason to jump ship just yet because of a moderately better graphics card. The 750G SSD in my current machine is very fast, so although the new SSD is faster, none of it is the incremental bump I like when upgrading to make the whole shuffle worth it. So yes, me as well, "waiting for skylake"

Very nice! I'm the same way...there's a lot going on with the rMBP, especially when it's docked with a million things plugged into it...It handles everything very well and it's been very strong.

Even today, almost 4 years later and despite the new GPU configurations, our maxed out rMBP remains pretty future proof. As an occasional gamer (running parallel) it doesn't hesitate to play smoothly even at the higher resolutions, despite the 1GB NVIDIA 650M.

I've been using my stock SSD as an External and it's been a treat. LOL...750GB SSD External Drive...it's very pleasant.

 

[wiregen]

I was on the fence also. I have the same setup. My apple care expired so I decided to upgrade my retina machine.

I bought a samsung 850 EVO 1tb and used this adapter on ebay. Zero issues, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-SATA-m...633884564?clk_rvr_id=860007128291&mfe=sidebar

I also upgraded my wifi to AC since I do all my work on my NAS at home. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Broadcom-BC...656814379?clk_rvr_id=860013209261&mfe=sidebar

Intel has been after efficiency and battery life it seems these past years. I want pure performance. These upgrades I can hold out for Skylake.

Also I do a lot of video editing so I purchased an Aorus X7 Pro (970M SLI, 32GB Ram, 4870HQ) I'm running Yosemite on it with no issues. I use it mostly for video editing. It's a beast and battery life sucks but I need the power on the road.

Day to day office and occasional work I go back to my retina 15.

 

[zettabyte]

I was on the fence also. I have the same setup. My apple care expired so I decided to upgrade my retina machine.

I bought a samsung 850 EVO 1tb and used this adapter on ebay. Zero issues, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-SATA-m...633884564?clk_rvr_id=860007128291&mfe=sidebar

I also upgraded my wifi to AC since I do all my work on my NAS at home. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Broadcom-BC...656814379?clk_rvr_id=860013209261&mfe=sidebar

Intel has been after efficiency and battery life it seems these past years. I want pure performance. These upgrades I can hold out for Skylake.

Also I do a lot of video editing so I purchased an Aorus X7 Pro (970M SLI, 32GB Ram, 4870HQ) I'm running Yosemite on it with no issues. I use it mostly for video editing. It's a beast and battery life sucks but I need the power on the road.

Day to day office and occasional work I go back to my retina 15.

Very nice! I love the Samsung 850 EVO as I have one in a hard case using it as an External at the moment. It's amazing. I'm with you on pure performance. I'd take that over battery life any day.... That's what wall plug in's and extra battery HUB's are for.

Thanks for sharing the link to the WiFi AC! I'm about to order one now as I've been holding out on this the whole time while debating whether I should upgrade to a new rMBP. Now that I've decided to wait, I'll just upgrade the AC for now...

I'm all about efficiency, but with editing and working with very heavy programs, I need the torque and not just the horsepower. It's going to be interesting to see how Intel holds up with its new 14nm architecture and how that will affect its performance in the areas in which people like you and I need....for better or worse it shall be interesting to see...

Hats off to you my friend on the Aorus....very nice. Go BIG or Go HOME right? That's what I'm talking about...

Cheers mate!

 

[Badrottie]

Your 2012 rMBP is still very powerful so no need to upgrade to new rMBP just yet.

 

[mwdmeyer]

Just thought I'd post here as I have recently upgraded to a 2015 mbpr from a 2012 model.

New - MacBook Pro Retina 15" i7 2.5GHz, 16GB Ram, 512GB SSD, R9 m370x
Old - MacBook Pro Retina 15" i7 2.6GHz, 16GB Ram, 256GB SSD, GTX 650m

Things I've noticed

• SSD is so so very fast (1800mbyte/sec). The 256GB in the 2012 was really slow, like 200-300mbyte max. This difference alone has made the upgrade worth it to me.
• Keyboard seems nicer.
• Speakers are better. Which I was a bit surprised about as the 2012 was already a massive step up from the 2008 MacBook Pro I had previously.
• dGPU is quicker, but I don't play many games so don't care too much.
• The HD4000 is finally gone! YAY. That integrated video card really had a hard time driving Mac OS smoothly. The new Iris is a lot better (the 650m was pretty good though in the 2012). So good for battery.
• Battery is a lot better.
• Force touch seems okay, still need to play with it.
• The laptop seems a lot cooler than the 2012. That machine could get pretty hot at times.
• AC Wireless is nice, but previous N was okay.
• Thunderbolt ports seem to hold in my ethernet adapter better.

For most users I would wait as the 2012 is still a good machine, but I'm really happy with my 2015.

 

[thatsfinebut]

I have a mid-2012 rMBP (512GB, 16GB, 2.7GHZ), and my AppleCare expired on 6/26. As I don't like having expensive Apple computers without AppleCare, about a month ago, I bought a 2015 rMBP. I returned it because it wasn't enough of an upgrade for me, and I didn't like paying so much money for an older Intel processor (regardless of processor availability). The 2015 is noticeably faster and had a couple of nice upgrades, but I couldn't justify spending $2,600 on it and having it possibly depreciate a lot when a more meaningful upgrade comes out. I believe we are going to see some kind of upgrade before November, whether a drop-in Broadwell, or some kind of redesign. If it ends up being a drop-in Broadwell in a couple months once processor inventory levels are good, and once people that bought the mid-2015 update have had their computers for a while, I'd potentially upgrade to that. In the meantime, my computer (and I'm guessing yours) is still extremely fast and relevant today. The primary reason I was trying to rationalize keeping the mid-2015, or heavily discounted 2014, was because my AppleCare was up.

That said, I'm going to wing it with my 2012 rMBP and wait for something much greater. My original rMBP is the best computer I have ever owned, and at the time of its release, I think it was one of Apple's best releases ever. The computer was blazing fast, thinner than its predecessor (a pretty sexy design), had a newly designed cooling system, new speakers, stock SSD, retina screen, and a handful of other great things. Three years later, I still think it is one of Apple's best releases/upgrades on previous generations. Since that time, there have been marginal updates to the rMBP. I was tempted to buy a 2014 rMBP for $1800, but I still couldn't get myself to do that. When you compare where the rMBP is today compared to when it was originally released, I don't think there has been anything that many of us greatly benefit from. As much as I'd love wireless AC, faster boot time from sleep, improved black levels, an hour or two more battery life, or whatever else you get, my computer still works really well, and is better than most computers (Apples or PCs) that people are buying today. I'm someone who typically likes to have the latest and greatest, but I've been able to pass on updates over the last few years because the original 2012 rMBP is that nice of a computer. Getting the 16GB of memory definitely helped keep my 2012 relevant.

If the 2015 came with a Broadwell and nicer GPU (I run Bootcamp and like to casually play games, no get a PC if you want to game debate please), I could justify buying the 2015. However, I'm not sure what Apple's strategy is right now, but I would bet money that they won't continue selling a 4th generation based rMBP until Q1 2016, or even later this year during the back to school season. We have seen Apple carry old tech for a while with the Mac Mini and Mac Pro, but as far as I know, they haven't done that with their more popular product lines. It's possible we could lose dGPU's or that Apple could do something in an rBMP upgrade that many of us won't like, but I think they're going to do something.

Stay strong, wait, and take pride in being an early adopter of one of Apple's greatest products.

On a side note, I'm going to pick up my rMBP in a few hours. I brought it in a few days ago and Apple replaced the battery. That means I'm getting a new bottom case which includes a new keyboard and trackpad, and that I should get another hour or so of batter life back. I'm a happy camper.