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Motorola, The G4 and PowerBook Updates
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You are all whining that the 15" does not have bluetooth, FW800, AP-extreme, but are you gonna use all those gadgets? Probably not even once a month. The 15" is an excellent system and personally I think Titanium sounds much cooler than Aluminium. I aggree that it can be pretty frustrating if the 15" were to get updated right after you bought one.
I have a 550mhz PB for over a year now and I am planning to use it for years to come.
I have a 550mhz PB for over a year now and I am planning to use it for years to come.
Re: Re: "Year of the Laptop"
I agree.
What I really want is a 50 GHz 990-based PB (15", but with an OLED screen that expands variably up to 20"), fuel cell powered, etc., etc. And I want it now. And for <$2K. But that might be a bit unrealistic, so I'm willing to "settle" for a G5 PB instead.
I bought my Rev A 500Mhz TiBook with 512MB RAM and a 30GB hard disk in January 2001. I new it would be changed soon. I new I was settling for no updated graphics card (Mobility Rage 128 with 8MB VDRAM), no DVD/CD-RW, and the old 100Mhz system bus. But I chose not to wait because I needed to upgrade (I was actually still using an old NeXT cube with a 68040 at the time!), needed a laptop, and, most importantly, had expense funds to buy the laptop which would expire before it was revised.
And it's been great. Never had a problem with it, despite the fact that it's been dropped 3 feet onto concrete (post 9/11, when I had to take it out at an airport security check, and someone behind me bumped me and knocked it out of my hands). The case is cracked, the battery will fall out if it's not taped, the DVD slot is cracked, and the airport antenna sticks out half an inch. And it works like a charm.
Now I don't have airport extreme, no superdrive, no ability to take advantage of Quartz, etc. And I can live just fine that way.
Do I want to upgrade? Sure.
Would one of the current TiBooks or AlBooks be a big step up from what I have? Sure.
Would whatever comes out next be a great machine, regardless of the chip in it? Sure.
But at this point I'm going to wait for a fully updated product line. It's not so much the chip as the overall architecture and design.
Obviously, the folks at Apple know just how much people want this. They're not stupid. If they could announce a G5 PB tomorrow, they would. The lack of it creates a major marketing headache for them.
It may take 6 months, or even longer. If I needed something better urgently, I would upgrade without hesitation. But as it is, I'll wait.
I agree.
What I really want is a 50 GHz 990-based PB (15", but with an OLED screen that expands variably up to 20"), fuel cell powered, etc., etc. And I want it now. And for <$2K. But that might be a bit unrealistic, so I'm willing to "settle" for a G5 PB instead.
I bought my Rev A 500Mhz TiBook with 512MB RAM and a 30GB hard disk in January 2001. I new it would be changed soon. I new I was settling for no updated graphics card (Mobility Rage 128 with 8MB VDRAM), no DVD/CD-RW, and the old 100Mhz system bus. But I chose not to wait because I needed to upgrade (I was actually still using an old NeXT cube with a 68040 at the time!), needed a laptop, and, most importantly, had expense funds to buy the laptop which would expire before it was revised.
And it's been great. Never had a problem with it, despite the fact that it's been dropped 3 feet onto concrete (post 9/11, when I had to take it out at an airport security check, and someone behind me bumped me and knocked it out of my hands). The case is cracked, the battery will fall out if it's not taped, the DVD slot is cracked, and the airport antenna sticks out half an inch. And it works like a charm.
Now I don't have airport extreme, no superdrive, no ability to take advantage of Quartz, etc. And I can live just fine that way.
Do I want to upgrade? Sure.
Would one of the current TiBooks or AlBooks be a big step up from what I have? Sure.
Would whatever comes out next be a great machine, regardless of the chip in it? Sure.
But at this point I'm going to wait for a fully updated product line. It's not so much the chip as the overall architecture and design.
Obviously, the folks at Apple know just how much people want this. They're not stupid. If they could announce a G5 PB tomorrow, they would. The lack of it creates a major marketing headache for them.
It may take 6 months, or even longer. If I needed something better urgently, I would upgrade without hesitation. But as it is, I'll wait.
Well I don't think current machines are partically slow they just FEEL slow.
According to test emenating from WWDC it seems that installing Panther on CURRENT machines will result in a hughly faster finder and that the impression of slowness dissapears. Couple that with say a 7457 with a longer batter life and faster bus and clock rate, and it would result in a very attractive MOBILE package.
Of corse a G5 would be fantasitc, but we will just have to wait for that, althought I am not sure one needs that amount of power on the move.
According to test emenating from WWDC it seems that installing Panther on CURRENT machines will result in a hughly faster finder and that the impression of slowness dissapears. Couple that with say a 7457 with a longer batter life and faster bus and clock rate, and it would result in a very attractive MOBILE package.
Of corse a G5 would be fantasitc, but we will just have to wait for that, althought I am not sure one needs that amount of power on the move.
Now i understand what you are saying. But the reality is that Apple in the G5 is selling machines that will need upgrading to fully take advantage of Panther or even Jaquare for that matter. The G5's are really short on memory (both RAM and video) to take advantage of OS/X.
Apple laptop line, both the powerbook and the ibook suffer from the smae issue. This has always been a chronic problem with Apple. So you can fully expect that any laptop Apple introduces will not be optimal for use with OS/x. Considering OS/X and the state of the art in electronics the fact that Apple still sells laptops with 128 MB of ram is a bit pathetic.
I geuss it comes down to not expectin Apple to sell you out of the box a Laptop that is a good value.
Dave
Apple laptop line, both the powerbook and the ibook suffer from the smae issue. This has always been a chronic problem with Apple. So you can fully expect that any laptop Apple introduces will not be optimal for use with OS/x. Considering OS/X and the state of the art in electronics the fact that Apple still sells laptops with 128 MB of ram is a bit pathetic.
I geuss it comes down to not expectin Apple to sell you out of the box a Laptop that is a good value.
Dave
Depends on what you do. If you do a lot of artistic work (and your billing fixed-price so your income goes down as your time goes up), it matters. If you're a developer (like me) working on large projects with 30-60 minute (or more) build times, it matters.
Does it matter to someone reading email or doing word processing? No, not really. That's what the iBook is for -- non "pro" users. We're talking about the PowerBook, ie, the "pro" machine, for people where the extra speed can make a difference.
Knowing that the 2.0ghz G5s can spin down to 1.3ghz makes me wonder about the ability in the 1.2ghz chips. This would imply at least some form of power saving capability (at a whole-chip level if not more granular). And don't forget that a 1.2ghz G5 is still expected to SPEC out at somewhere over a twice a 1.0ghz G4, so its not like we'd need the ultra-speeds that have been mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
Personally, for me, a 12" PowerBook would be a great companion laptop. I can even get used to the resolution (although I'd prefer a few more PPI). Its just too slow for me to do real work on, other than taking it to meetings as a glorified PDA. This has more to do with the nature of the work I do, not the machine itself, but again its supposed to be the "Pro" line. Having said that, put the expected 1.3ghz 7457 into the current 12" shell, don't take out any cache, jump me up to 64mb of graphics ram, ideally let me swap out both memory chips to give me 1GB not just 640mb, and I'm a very happy camper right now.
And I'd pay pretty well for it too. Ah, well.
-Richard
huh? maybe not the firewire 800, but I have a bluetooth cell phone and tungten T that sure would like to talk to a powerbook.
and i'd use the wireless networking every day just like i surf the web everyday...
i don't really think these are gadgets--i think they're real, necessary components...
I am currently a Windows user and have had a growing obsession with the Mac and all the different things that they come up with.I know the G4 is not that bad of a chip, but the G5's new 65 bit architecture will keep the notebook compatible for much longer. I am going to college for 3D animation. This requires a very fast machine. The G5 would fit the bill soooo well.
I know I am foolish to believe that the G5 could go into a notebook this early, but why didn,t apple develope a scaled down version of the G5 for the Powerbook since it is SUPPOSED to be a pro notebook) and bring them to the consumer around the same time.
I NEEEEEDD more power!!!!
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Biggest mystery in life: where is the 15" alPowerbook?
I know I am foolish to believe that the G5 could go into a notebook this early, but why didn,t apple develope a scaled down version of the G5 for the Powerbook since it is SUPPOSED to be a pro notebook) and bring them to the consumer around the same time.
I NEEEEEDD more power!!!!
-------------------------
Biggest mystery in life: where is the 15" alPowerbook?
Hmmm. Interesting. I'm more of a performance man myself. Battery life is all well and fine but if I get a 17" laptop I'm looking at using it as a desktop replacement which means I'd favor a faster system over batter life. But as always to each their own. Some what battery life over system speed. *shrugs*
ACTUALLy...
the centrino is chip technology as well. The p4m chip was redesigned from the ground up to accomodate a laptop with a chipset that was designed from the ground up. It's whole architecture makes the origional p4m look quite laughable. I just saw the difference today. Impressive actually. It would make a wonderful linux to go system. They never hid anything. intel did good with the centrino. Who'd a thunk it....
Not true!!! I upgraded my Dell Latitude CSx from 500Mhz to 1Ghz simply by buying a CPU off an auction site. Install was a breeze. Snap off the cover between the keyboard and display. Remove the 2 screws for the keyboard. Unplug the strip that goes from the keyboard to the mobo. Remove the 7 screws holding the heatsink in place. (Big mofo by the way.) turn the little screw that holds the CPU in place. Pull the CPU out of the ZIF socket. Install the 1Ghz. Reverse the previous instructions and boot up. Had an initial error in the BIOS. And the BIOS isn't detecting the CPU correctly at this point but running benchmarks did indeed show that the system was running in the 1Ghz range. All told it took me 15 minutes to install it and I've NEVER torn apart a laptop in my life. On the other hand there are manufacturers that solder in the CPU THAT is a bit more tricky.
Its do-able Not easy but do-able.
Agreed. Anyone who takes the time to set up their machine and peripherals knows that once they're a part of your system, it gets pretty hard to go back. My T-68 and airport are incredibly valuable parts of my set-up.
Heat is not the main issue concerning the G5 in a Powerbook. IBM has a scaled back 1.2Ghz G5 that runs cool enough for the PB. It's the fact the G5 doesn't have the power management needed to preserve battery life. So currently battery life sucks with G5's in PB's. Get over the heat issue.
mtn. out of a mole hill . . .
anyone else notice:
1) no VR gallery of the 15" anymore?
2) for the last 4 dayz haven't been able to find a usb 1.1 hub on the apple store?
this motorola spec sheet was just posted yesterday
http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7457&nodeId=01
note a scaled down 7457 at 1GHz has a 1.0V rating (12" anyone?)
get a move on apple, how long has the 15" been sitting idle? update the whole line, if it is posted on moto site, it is available to OEMs (or should be VERY soon), and throw in usb 2.0 (with the appropiate belkin hub)
i swear to god i will buy another dell here pretty soon, and then i will cry
anyone else notice:
1) no VR gallery of the 15" anymore?
2) for the last 4 dayz haven't been able to find a usb 1.1 hub on the apple store?
this motorola spec sheet was just posted yesterday
http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7457&nodeId=01
note a scaled down 7457 at 1GHz has a 1.0V rating (12" anyone?)
get a move on apple, how long has the 15" been sitting idle? update the whole line, if it is posted on moto site, it is available to OEMs (or should be VERY soon), and throw in usb 2.0 (with the appropiate belkin hub)
i swear to god i will buy another dell here pretty soon, and then i will cry
Re: mtn. out of a mole hill . . .
Oh, well. Here's hoping for a reasonable chip and a good resolution (ie: something not available 3 years ago) on the 15" ... and soon.
They really are deemphasizing the 15" on the website, that's true (still ships same day). Nothing on the refurb site (often used to dump excess inventory at a discount) though -- in fact, the whole refurb site is currently unavailable. That's a little weird, no?
-Richard
One thing that I hadn't noticed was that the 7457 doubles the L2 cache to 512K (nice). Not that many noteworthy differences otherwise. Its also interesting that the PDF documentation (MPC7457EC.pdf) still shows the chip as running at 15.8W (1ghz), 18.7W (1.3ghz). Weird.
Oh, well. Here's hoping for a reasonable chip and a good resolution (ie: something not available 3 years ago) on the 15" ... and soon.
They really are deemphasizing the 15" on the website, that's true (still ships same day). Nothing on the refurb site (often used to dump excess inventory at a discount) though -- in fact, the whole refurb site is currently unavailable. That's a little weird, no?
-Richard
Re: mtn. out of a mole hill . . .
hehehehehe. it sounds like i'm not the only one in need of an intervention...
hehehehehe. it sounds like i'm not the only one in need of an intervention...
The low power consumption of the 7457 chip is going to be a godsend for the 12" PB, not only because of the speed but also because of the heat and battery life. Personally, I don't care about the warmth of the machine but it turns a lot of people off ... and I would like the battery to last a bit longer. The new processor should fix the only three quibbles about the 12", otherwise I think the machine is perfect.
Re: Re: mtn. out of a mole hill . . .
they always 'hide' the refurb site whenever a new product hits the market. don't want people looking at the cheap stuff when they could be shelling out more cash for the new and improved stuff.
they always 'hide' the refurb site whenever a new product hits the market. don't want people looking at the cheap stuff when they could be shelling out more cash for the new and improved stuff.
I recently gave a 12" PB to my future in-laws for a generic 'round-the-house computer. It gets warm, but not from the processor -- when installing a lot of software, the harddrive (which is located under the left-side palm rest) becomes quite warm. Not uncomfortable, but very noticable. Under normal use, its not an issue.
-Richard![pbg4_016.jpg]()
![pbg4_019.jpg]()
So it was the harddrive after all ... great picture. Funny that the entire lower right side of the laptop is empty ... I figured a computer that small would take up every inch of space.
Uhhh, personally, i would much MUCH rather have a dualie 2.0ghz G5 machine than any laptop out there PC or Mac (Assuming my main emphasis is 3d animation). I would get that decked out with a lot of ram and then buy a 12" PB or even iBook for basic stuff. Because personally, i wouldn't want my notebook tied up rendering stuff all night/day long, and i would want a much larger screen/higher res than anything the 15" or 17" will possibly offer in the next year or two (though an external display can always be used). The G5 does fit the bill, though not in a laptop for 3d animation.
Iti is rather obvious why Apple doesn't have a strip down version of the G5 for the powerbook, the processor leaves alot to be desired. If they where to strip out one of the FPU or modify the Alt-vec unit the processor would not do well at all - in simply does not have the integer performance.
Now stuffing a full power unit into a laptop is another story. But it is not a question of power usage just for the chip, you have to take into account the support hardware also.
While we will all have to wait and see I believe that apple will get very close to the performance level of the G5 with an enhanced G4. If a G4 can be delivered with an enhanced I/O bus, a larger cache and few more MHz/watt than they have the potential for a very nice upgrade to the powerbook. Having all of this come together is the big question.
Thanks
Dave
Now stuffing a full power unit into a laptop is another story. But it is not a question of power usage just for the chip, you have to take into account the support hardware also.
While we will all have to wait and see I believe that apple will get very close to the performance level of the G5 with an enhanced G4. If a G4 can be delivered with an enhanced I/O bus, a larger cache and few more MHz/watt than they have the potential for a very nice upgrade to the powerbook. Having all of this come together is the big question.
Thanks
Dave