Okay, thanks for the input Q! Always helpful. I reported the old WW threads and asked them to be wastelanded
EDIT: Looks like they have been wastelanded now
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New Area for [WW] and similar games
- Thread starter robbieduncan
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Okay, thanks for the input Q! Always helpful. I reported the old WW threads and asked them to be wastelanded
EDIT: Looks like they have been wastelanded now
i still think some sort of sub-forum would be a good idea, to seperate them from the "helpful/question" threads.Okay, thanks for the input Q! Always helpful. I reported the old WW threads and asked them to be wastelanded
EDIT: Looks like they have been wastelanded now
Is this thread a "helpful/question" thread?
I have remained silent regarding this because I have been busy, and feel that the people who see the benefits have presented good arguments so far. To be honest I think your (the general your, not you, DoFoT9) claim that the [WW] threads are spam/deserving of being wastelanded are unfounded. I can do a quick scan of a forum and give you a list of threads that are filled with even more "post-padding" posts with no substance.
The werewolf threads are full of intelligent posts of people who actually play the game. While there are posts that consists of little more than a few words, there are much more of those types of posts in other threads. If all of those threads are also wastelanded - or moved to a subforum - those forums would be quite empty, indeed.
There was only two games running. While there might be three [WW] threads at once, the one where the game has ended will drop down the page quickly. I could name two threads that keep floating up to the top of the forums even though I did not care for them. This and this being examples. Just because I don't care about football nor Top Gear, should not mean I have a right to complain that they keep "cluttering" my top threads view.
Furthermore, as a argument against a sub-forum, it would be ridiculous to have a sub-forum with two active threads and the rest wastelanded or locked, won't it? As a community-based game, I believe it belongs to the community forums.
To those who compare the werewolf games to the count-to-a-million "games" (and it's a stretch to even call them games) have no clue what they are talking about. I will give you in a recent werewolf game. On that page are posts consisting of strategic thought, discussion and collaboration. I see much more intelligence and community in that one page than I see on a whole page of threads in the iPhone forum.
While there was a problem with several non-players and players posting after they have been eliminated from the game with posts with largely no content, or posts consisting solely of an image, I view this as a problem as well, and am going to put more strict restraints on non-player posts.
With two games that has just completed consisting of over 30 members playing the game and obviously enjoying them, I believe to wasteland or stigmatize those games is an unfortunate turn of events and reflects poorly on the community as a whole.
One argues that the werewolves games do not "apply to everyone." While they do not, nor do football nor Top Gear. I have no interest in them. I am part of this community, am I not? Therefore, those threads I referenced above do not apply to "everyone." Should they be wastelanded or stigmatized? I would not.
While more than one [WW] games might be viewed as duplicate threads, they serve very different purposes. As the "main" games become more and more complex, it will exclude those new to the games. This is why I started (and chrmjenkins continued) the Simple Werewolville offshoot, to properly introduce new players to the game. This is a way to keep the game relevant to the community as a whole - you would have a stronger argument as regarding to "not for everyone" if the games become so complex only experienced veteran players could play, which I do not want to happen. While the most recent game ran by chrmjenkins allowed veteran players from the main game to play, my previous simple game did not, which reinforces my purpose behind the simple game.
I have made my arguments. Hopefully the community will see that the werewolves games are in no way like the "count-to-a-million" or other forum "games," and are a great way to get members together as a community.
Last of all, I would like to thank the moderators for keeping me and chrmjenkins in the loop, and thank you Doctor Q for making your views clear and allowing chrmjenkins and myself to present our side of the discussion.
ravenvii
^ Absolutely excellent post, ravenii. I could not agree more. Though it if makes the grand complainers ever so happy (about post counts, I guess... as if anyone gives a damn about that) I don't mind if they get wastelanded but as you said, if we're going down that road I could easily suggest hundreds of others that could go there as well. I think you and Q are correct though about the stigma that creates by putting them there.
On a personal note, MR feels a lot less fun in the last year or so, catering to the absurdly oversensitive and the perpetually discontented. I've been slowly drifting away because of it and these games actually brought some of that fun back for me. I also think these games are something that aren't as easily understood until you've played them yourself. I know because I've tried explaining it to e and he think it's all very peculiar. They're great fun though and I'm glad to know they're not being totally poo-pooed here.
On a personal note, MR feels a lot less fun in the last year or so, catering to the absurdly oversensitive and the perpetually discontented. I've been slowly drifting away because of it and these games actually brought some of that fun back for me. I also think these games are something that aren't as easily understood until you've played them yourself. I know because I've tried explaining it to e and he think it's all very peculiar.
They're great fun though and I'm glad to know they're not being totally poo-pooed here.
sorry for the late reply, was at work
i never said that the [WW] threads were spam, that doesnt really bother me what happens to them at all but i am just trying to think of future expansion - the "what ifs?" type of scenario.
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no, thats not helpful at all. the original post may have been informative for the more "social" followers, but the ensuing replies were not needed to say the least.
i dont doubt that the posts arent intelligent, i also dont doubt that they are full of a few worded replies (which is against forum rules by the way), its a highly intelligent game - but limited in scalability from how i understand it. this may call for further consequent games to be opened.
i never said that the [WW] threads were spam, that doesnt really bother me what happens to them at all but i am just trying to think of future expansion - the "what ifs?" type of scenario.
but thats the thing, it wont just be 2 threads. as each game finishes (weekly/bi weekly etc) a new thread is started. more and more discussion threads will subsequently be created as a result of its growing popularity, help me threads will start, threads outlining how to play will start, guides, etc. you get the idea. my main concern is that by the time that a few tens/hundreds of threads have been created, its going to be too late - and somebody will have to clean up the mess. also, it could go in the opposite way and another game will never happen again
good point, though maybe this brings up another point of putting the larger "discussion" threads into their own sub-section other then the community. this forum is getting extremely large of late.
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How about we not blow this out of proportion. These are only a few combined WW threads at a time, (each being very unique) where nothing about them leaks into other threads. They aren't THAT busy and the people that use them really enjoy them and always keep them on topic.
If you'd like in on one DoFoT9 would be happy to put in a word for you if I see the sign ups are going fast and you want a spot. Just say the word.
If you'd like in on one DoFoT9 would be happy to put in a word for you if I see the sign ups are going fast and you want a spot. Just say the word.
sorry - im just voicing my opinion. i just think that is is always better to plan for these types of things, we dont know how un/popular this game will get.. so, you know.
oh oh! i want in! i have absolutely no idea how to play (have read the rules numerous times), it sure does look fun though!
My suggestion for a sub-area solves a lot of problems discussed above:
1) The sub-area could be set to not count towards post counts (like PRSI)
2) As the threads no longer count towards post counts they do not need Wastelanding: less work for the mods and the threads are available for reference in future games
3) The active threads can be ignored by non-players by ignoring the entire sub-forum
It's clear that this is not a big issue and that very few other non-playing MR members care about this so it seems that things will just continue as-is.
1) The sub-area could be set to not count towards post counts (like PRSI)
2) As the threads no longer count towards post counts they do not need Wastelanding: less work for the mods and the threads are available for reference in future games
3) The active threads can be ignored by non-players by ignoring the entire sub-forum
It's clear that this is not a big issue and that very few other non-playing MR members care about this so it seems that things will just continue as-is.
I don't participate in the Werewolf games myself and in all honesty have no interest in doing so but I think they're doing no harm at all.
I prefer to see this sort of thing as a good opportunity for members to interact with one another and get to know each other better, which is surely one of the whole points of a 'Community' section. As long as they don't descend into spamming (which doesn't to date look to be a particular problem, to my eyes at least), there aren't dozens of them popping up all over the place (not a problem so far), and the folk participating in them aren't bickering or anything, I don't see a problem with them personally.
By its nature Community is going to have a wide variety of threads at any given time, not all of them are going to appeal to all of us but that's just the nature of the beast.
I prefer to see this sort of thing as a good opportunity for members to interact with one another and get to know each other better, which is surely one of the whole points of a 'Community' section. As long as they don't descend into spamming (which doesn't to date look to be a particular problem, to my eyes at least), there aren't dozens of them popping up all over the place (not a problem so far), and the folk participating in them aren't bickering or anything, I don't see a problem with them personally.
By its nature Community is going to have a wide variety of threads at any given time, not all of them are going to appeal to all of us but that's just the nature of the beast.
This forum section is called Community Discussions. Perhaps you forgot the last word in the title? Believe it or not, some visit the forum for actual 'discussions'.
So it becomes a problem if there are too many? Who's to say when enough is enough? I think the fact people are complaining about these types of game threads is reason enough to disallow them.
There's a difference between topics that interest you and topics that don't belong in Community DISCUSSIONS. There's that word, again.
For instance, topics about knitting don't appeal to me and I would never read them, but if someone searches for example 'knitting patterns using a Mac 'on Google might stumble on that topic, and it would be relevant to them. The topic would be read and provide some useful information, whereas these game threads do NOT interest anybody outside of the participants, and once the game is over, I doubt would ever be read again by ANYONE. I cannot see any point to these game threads other than providing fleeting entertainment to a very limited few.
These game threads are just a fad.....as were the 100,000 pushup/miles/sit up threads a few years back.
They will cease relatively soon and as such, they do not warrant a new forum section.
In the meantime, just avoid them. It is not that difficult.
They will cease relatively soon and as such, they do not warrant a new forum section.
In the meantime, just avoid them. It is not that difficult.
Leave them alone for now and/or reach a private agreement with the key players to limit or ration the number of live threads at any one time. At the moment, I count two ongoing games on the first page which doesn't seem excessive.
I haven't played any of these games, but others enjoy them and have made their case here. I'm not entirely sure what harm it does to leave them as they are. Besides, it's not like they're a permanent site feature. However, I would add one thought if they're genuinely intended to be a community activity: Make new games easier to join for others and first-timers, excluding long-term players and keeping things simple, if necessary.
I haven't played any of these games, but others enjoy them and have made their case here. I'm not entirely sure what harm it does to leave them as they are. Besides, it's not like they're a permanent site feature. However, I would add one thought if they're genuinely intended to be a community activity: Make new games easier to join for others and first-timers, excluding long-term players and keeping things simple, if necessary.
The Community Discussions sub-forum comes under the grand umbrella title of 'Mac Community', along with other delights such as Picture Gallery, the Marketplace, PRSI and this very Site and Forum Feedback sub-forum. No forgetfulness on my part.
And equally many people visit these forums for a great many reasons – for some folk the sense of community is a big draw, even moreso than the Apple stuff this forum was originally created to host discussions (there's that word again) about.
Can you be any more uptight and self-centered?
Talk about making a big deal over nothing. Who are you to decide what is pointless DISCUSSION and what isn't? I bet you're the type to whinge to TV stations about shows you don't like in hopes of getting them banned rather than just watching something else. The complaints of a few shouldn't dictate change for the majority who have no such objections and the good sense to just ignore it. There are plenty of threads I don't care for here but I'm not out trying to ruin it for everyone else simply because of my preferences.
Or are you still just sore that your count to a million thread got binned?
If you'd like me to... although I will have to add it to your bill.
You know, I didn't post in this thread because I had an agenda, or I wanted to see the community forum to be something I thought it should be... or because the sight of others enjoying themselves made me feel anxious. I've never posted in a single one of the game threads and only look at them occasionally... so I've no dogs in this hunt.
However, I have been here at MR for some time and have seen most of the forum's activities from many sides so I recognise that too many game threads would be a turnoff to some, as I also realise that to others, they're an enjoyable feature. Letting them continue under certain conditions seems a reasonable solution.
So, bearing in mind that the number of current threads doesn't seem too excessive and that others take a great deal of pleasure from them, then why stop them? If there were dozens of them, then perhaps I'd see it differently, however after reading this thread, perhaps some should take a cue from this comment by the original instigator of the games:
In light of that, I believe this question is more or less settled.
You say you want in, but they've been talking about the new simple game since August 8.
All you have to do is make a post in that thread saying you want to be in.I'll make sure to tell the other players your comments in this thread.
For those complaining about these games, I'd suggest spending your time more wisely by complaining about all the multiple threads in the iPhone forums discussing the same thing; the troll threads and posts all through the forums; the +1, LOL, cool story bro' and similar posts; you get the idea. Fix all that crap and then worry about stomping out one of the sources of fun on this site.
Like Q said, these games are based on rapid posting. Yes, there are people saying "+1" etc but those are one-time posts and still against rules. However, in these games you can easily post dozens of posts in relatively short time. I doubt you see people posting +1 thread after thread as they get banned.
If the thread is already closed like the threads that have been wastelanded were, then nobody is taking away your fun. I've never been against these games, more like the opposite even though I haven't participated. Wastelanding them is a lot easier than going through the posts and selecting the irrelevant or other posts that are against forum rules. And as I said, it reduces the risk that someone joins in order to raise their post count and there is no need to "save" those threads. Or is that your bed time reading?
I wouldn't mind community crap being a forum where posts do not count towards your post count but that is not up to me. As it has been said, this is just a temporal phenomena so IMO, wastelanding them is the best choice as they are not needed afterwards. The only reason that these threads "need" wastelanding is the post count IMO.
I hope I don't sound like I'm whining because that is not what I mean. In the end, I don't care much what happens to these threads so I hope people can still have their fun. I still stand behind my opinion that once they are over and finished, they will get wastelanded but I won't lose my sleep if they don't.
Yes.
I'd love to ignore these game threads, but I have no way to ignore them when they float constantly in Community Discussions or in New Posts, so your TV channel analogy doesn't quite work, does it? Please try a better analogy.
Oh, I can assure you I'm very sore about it.
Do you suppose if I altered the game so that we pretended to be werewolves, and each night on our little excursions into town when we eat a villager, we add to our tally of villagers killed. Do you suppose then it would be alright? I mean, it would appear less spammy (more fun) to count up to a million this way by wrapping it up in a "game".I couldn't agree more. I could care less about 'What are you listening to? pt 2', 'For Those Of You Who Have Pets' and 'Buying mom a record player'. (All of which are in the Top 5 after the stickies as of the this writing.) But does that mean these threads don't have value to other members? Of course not.
Perhaps the entire community sub forum should not count towards post counts as the entire section has hardly anything to do with the Apple Community.
I personally feel that I have gotten several members better over the course of playing in one of the [WW] games and isn't this one of the goals of the community forum? To foster a community spirit among members?
Yes, more or less settled, and the game threads are OK as long as there aren't a large number of threads active at once. Two is not a large number.
The community should be a place where users can have fun. Our tradition of couting posts in Community Discussion is reasonable since it's part of what makes these forums a community, not just a place to get a Mac/iPhone question answered. With a limited number of game threads the inconvenience is no worse than for other types of community threads: threads for sports fans, threads for car owners, threads for lemur groomers, etc.
People do complain about those too, and with good reason. We don't decide what's OK based on whether there's something else worse; there almost always is!
As with all threads, reported spam will be dealt with. If it's necessary to Wasteland a game thread to discourage spamming used to build up post counts, it'll be done only after the game is over. The stigma that a thread suffers for being in the Wasteland shouldn't cause a problem for subsequent games.
You say you want in, but they've been talking about the new simple game since August 8.
I'll make sure to tell the other players your comments in this thread.
ive been so busy with uni/work that i simply dont have the time to go through the posts to try to find it. ill try find it now.