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New Report Says Apple Was in Talks to Use BMW i3 as Basis for Electric Car Project
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A little late to the party on this thread, and I'm sure I'm echoing many people's sentiments here. I just don't see why apple would be tempted to produce an electric car. The auto industry is old, profit margins are small, and regulations are stifling.
It seems they're struggling to find the next big thing, it seems they see the allure of Tesla and think they can do that. Yet Tesla isn't expected to turn a profit until 2020 (at least by this article)
Its like TV rumors that kept re-appearing, inserting themselves into a product that is beyond mature (read old), that is little chance of making a profit.
It seems they're struggling to find the next big thing, it seems they see the allure of Tesla and think they can do that. Yet Tesla isn't expected to turn a profit until 2020 (at least by this article)
Its like TV rumors that kept re-appearing, inserting themselves into a product that is beyond mature (read old), that is little chance of making a profit.
The i3 is not. It's POS inside and out. I think BMW saved all it's electric love for the i8. Never driven an i8 but I was severely disappointed in the i3. I felt like I was driving a giant golf cart. It was the most un-BMW I've ever driven.
You should clarify your statement. Do you mean product design or dress style? I would agree European and American style of dress is largely at odds with each other, with some cross over, but not much.
When it comes to product design though "European" has been aesthetically superior for decades, especially with cars, but also other consumer hard goods. Just look around... Kodak camera from the 80s or a Leica? GE range from the 90s or a Miele? RCA CD player or Bang and Olufsen?
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check out the documentary who killed thr electric car.
EVs and self-driving cars are to current vehicles what the iphone was to blackberry.
Its not a simple range figure - its about how much of that range you can safely use before you have to start planning the next recharge. It depends on:
- Predictability: does the mileage vary widely depending on temperature, driving style, whether you need heating, air con etc.
- Availability of recharging/refuelling stations (and capacity - e.g. in the UK most motorway services now have a couple of recharging bays, maybe only one of each type of charger. If you arrive to find it occupied by a car who's occupants have gone off for lunch, tough)
- Speed of recharging/refuelling - do you have to plan a rest stop around it?
- Emergency options (you can't hitch a lift to a gas station and come back with a can of electricity; can't carry a spare if you're going off the beaten track; rescue vehicles could carry a generator but it would be a slow process).
There will need to be a lot of advances in hydrogen storage and handling before that's a safe option. Plus, fuel cells lose the battery advantage of home charging.
Of course, you could imagine a plug-in battery/fuel cell 'hybrid' provided the hydrogen storage can be made sufficiently compact. It would probably be a good idea for a fuel cell vehicle to have a battery anyway, so it could use regenerative braking. However, there's a catch there: the advantage of fuel cells is the ability to quickly refuel 'on the road'; a big advantage of batteries is that, most of the time, you don't need to - greatly reducing the demand for fuel stations. A fuel-cell/battery hybrid might not generate enough demand for hydrogen to support enough hydrogen fuel stations. Electric charging stations are relatively easy to set up and maintain anywhere with mains electricity, and you get half an hour or more to make money by selling stuff to the car's occupants.
Incidentally, one of the unique features of the i3 is the 'range extender' version that has a small petrol engine and fuel tank that can top-up the battery. This gives the European version a ~200 mile range (although the US version has been crippled with a smaller fuel tank to meet the CA definition of electric vehicle). That does a lot to reduce range anxiety (I think I could live with the range-extender i3, but I can't stomach paying the thick end of £30k when you can get a pretty nice 'luxury small car', that could drive the length of the UK with a couple of 5 minute fuel stops if it had to, for £20k).
I'm interested in how they will market this product. It doesn't fit in their lofty apple stores right now and I can't imagine a huge car store in NYC. Also, a New Yorker is not their target public. Can you imagine, as much Apple cars as iphones in NYC?
The European Market is focused on small efficient cars. The American market is focused on thirsty, ugly nasty hummer types and SUV's like they are compensating for something. The middle East couldn't care less about electricity cars. And the East doesn't care about design.
price will be premium so 35k and up.
I do hope they challenge the current car design philosophy because most cars look like melted sneakers.
The European Market is focused on small efficient cars. The American market is focused on thirsty, ugly nasty hummer types and SUV's like they are compensating for something. The middle East couldn't care less about electricity cars. And the East doesn't care about design.
price will be premium so 35k and up.
I do hope they challenge the current car design philosophy because most cars look like melted sneakers.
I really don't get Apple. They have a chance at being a dominate force in the PC arena but they rather own 10% of the market because only 10% can afford or be in debt for their desktops and laptops. Instead we get a $20,000 watch and rumors of a premium priced car from a less than reliable automaker.
Making more affordable computers sounds better than owning a BMW that loses so much value and is less reliable than many brands already out there.
My i3 that I'm very happy with 
Lots of people with negative opinions who no doubt have never actually been in / drove / or seen one in person.
![IMG_4954.jpg]( "IMG_4954.jpg")
Lots of people with negative opinions who no doubt have never actually been in / drove / or seen one in person.
Excellent bit of imagination / story telling you have here, sadly its completely untrue
after taking your foot of the accelerator the i3 slows itself with regenerative braking. Braking hard would simply be a waste. Do some actual research mate.
hence the and between self-driving and EVs.
Most consumer vehicles will probably be both but commercial vehicles will most likely remain diesel.
Apple cares more about profit than revenue or marketshare.
the only 'word' that comes to mind when I see these is indeed, "fugly".
Couldn't agree more.
Once upon a time, Apple owned the mp3 market with the iPod. I'd like to see them do the same with the Mac. There's no reason why they can't other than greed. Same with the iPhone.
There is so much wrong in this post. I mean you seem like a smart fellow but your information is very wrong.
1st at about 100 mile range an EV will work for most people as a commute to work and get groceries on the way home car. For married couples this will be g8 as they'll have one EV to save cost and another gasoline car for long trips. Plus as more people get EVs, demand for gasoline will drop which will lower the cost of travel for the gasoline vehicle.
Speaking of cost. EVs are much much much more reliable than gasoline engines (and their cousins the hybrid). This fact will be one of the key reason people end up switching over to EVs.
I would personally want 150-200mile range. I would say at that point everyone looking to travel around their local metro area would be covered.
And at 300mile, you'd have a car that can go between nearby metro areas (detroit -> chicago, LA -> Vegas, etc.)
With recharge stations, the 150-200m range car would prob be the sweet spot for most people.
Fuel-cells are dumb. The fact that you are even seriously considering them tells me you haven't done proper research. They are a red herring and will never be popular. FYI the price of hydrogen is more expensive than gas.
I live in the countryside and would be more than happy to have a wind farm near me, without renewable energy the countryside is going to be in a far worse state than a few graceful wind turbines.
Not sure how your argument of building a brand new car reduces impact on the environment? And what does an ecosystem have to do with a car? It isn't a link to dealerships and service centres, which I can't see Apple setting up, more like it would just partner with someone.
Apple also does not make it's own hardware, it contracts that out, in fact car manufacturers by far make their own products more than Apple does.
And computers have been in cars for years, even big screen interfaces have existed for years now, Apple isn't changing that, they just came up with their own idea for interfacing with car systems like Android, but they have nothing to do with controlling a cars functions and features, only for comms and entertainment and satnav.
Making a car is VERY different to making a computer or phone, their ar a lot of regulations that must be followed, and any battery's will also have to follow these guidelines so I'm not sure they will really differ a lot in battery life, but even if they do, by then charging stations should be more available.
As for car design, they will never be standard, because we as humans like different tastes. It would be an incredibly boring dull world if we all drove around in Apple cars. Also manufacturer's share engines and components and chassis designs. But they still all have their own dealers and service centres. Electric cars will be the same.
Why are you so sure about that? Batteries haven't improved much in the last 20+ years and the physics behind it lead me to believe this will not change any time soon. Am I missing something here?
I find it frustrating that only Tesla is making a long range EV. You would think the other manufacturers wouldn't want to leave them with a market all by themselves. I like the idea that the model 3 will have a 200+mile range as it allows me to drive to work and back plus tool around town a bit before having to worry about charging.
Rapid charging would be the game changer. Along with more capacity per pound.
My i3 that I'm very happy with
Lots of people with negative opinions who no doubt have never actually been in / drove / or seen one in person.
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The issue with these cars are reliability and value. The reason why these vehicles depreciate so bad is because repair cost could end up costing half the price of the car once it gets of age. Most people that buy these expensive cars don't know how to turn a wrench and are at the mercy of the repair shop. Parts are expensive and require proprietary tools that shops such as Autozone and Pepboys won't carry. The nurse at my gob was quoted $1200 to replace rear bearings on her BMW. The most I've paid to do it myself was $100 for my Nissan Titan.
These cars are for people that like to drive something new every few years and they don't mind throwing money down the toilet when they trade it for another in 3 years.
My i3 that I'm very happy with
Lots of people with negative opinions who no doubt have never actually been in / drove / or seen one in person.
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Beautiful car. I like how roomy it is and design is pretty solid. Always been a fan of BMW with the exception of a specific year that their rear ends looked horrible. Can't remember.
I do agree though that a BMW platform for a car that would be geared towards the masses is not the best choice. Repair costs and initial price would not be ideal to say the least.
I've already said in an earlier post that current EVs are great if your usage meets a particular set of tick-boxes (such as: having a second car, being able to recharge at home). If you don't meet these criteria, though, "range anxiety" is an issue, and its certainly not something I'm making up.
Reduced demand at current levels of production would probably make crude oil prices drop, but Its anybody's guess whether reduced demand for gasoline would make the retail price (including taxes, and the economies of scale in distribution) drop.
Citation needed, as they say. Modern gasoline engines are extremely reliable (and even EV motors & transmissions will go wrong sometimes). EVs will still need new tyres, brake maintenance, windscreen repairs, body repairs etc. which will form the bulk of many people's maintenance bills. Then there's the little matter of the degradation of the batteries.
Travel around the local metro area is not a problem and what you would personally want doesn't mean its what everyone would personally want.
EVs currently have to compete with small, economical gasoline cars that cost 20-50% less to buy (that takes a while to earn back in cheap fuel) and can handle a 400 mile journey without fuss.
90% of my car usage would be catered for by a < 100 mile range EV and home charging. The problem is, from time to time I need to a 360 mile round-trip (and over the last year or two that has sometimes been at very short notice), and my compact petrol-driven car can do that - I don't even need to check the tank.
The only EVs currently offering 150-200 miles are (a) the i3 rEX or (b) the Tesla S. Both are nice if you have the money, but the i3 does it by having a petrol range extender that adds £3k to the price, the Tesla does it by being a full-sized luxury sedan with plenty of space for batteries (I'll be interested to see how their forthcoming 'economy' car handles that).
I'd probably go for the i3 rEX if it wasn't for the price: £28k after subsidy for the "entry level" model - c.f. something like £16k starting price for a 'luxury' small car like a BMW Mini. Maybe if I lived in Iceland or Norway where I knew all the electricity was coming from renewables the green-ness would sway me.
Every mention of fuel cells in my previous post was to point out why they might not be a solution to "range anxiety" - and my earlier posts already criticised them - so I really don't know why you think I'm supporting the idea.
As for "seriously considering them" - that's another thing: fuel cell vehicles exist and serious investment has gone into them, so they are worth debating.
The problem isn't the vehicle itself, its the nature of the person buying it. You own a commuter/utility level truck. You did your own repairs. Your nurse owned a high line vehicle and went to the dealer, no doubt, instead of doing a few minutes of research and finding a reputable independent shop, or doing the work herself. In my experience, BMW parts - aside from the specialized parts like the DME, window glass, or interior components - were the same price or less than comparable parts from other brands. I replaced my 3-series brakes myself, finding rotors from a manufacturer that was an OEM contractor, a bit cheaper than you would have paid for rotors on your Nissan Titan.
Herein lies a huge problem with the whole EV and self-driving concepts, and you've underscored it well. The technology is so cutting edge and so beyond the realm of 99 percent of the car-driving public that no one will be able to affect repairs or modifications themselves. Sure, forums and blogs will spring up showing people the limits and beyond of these things, but forums for BMW repairs and modifications have been around for almost 20 years now and people like your nurse still go to the dealer and pay full ticket.
That has got to be one of the biggest stretches of the imagination I’ve yet seen.
So let’s look at where they were……..
Production of personal computers and music players. The iPod is pretty close to a phone, in fact if you use Skype or another app that uses the internet to place calls it is one in a sense. So we have hardware that is almost identical, software that is almost identical - so pretty similar hardware. Ok, the phone may need some additional shielding as it broadcasts and recieves on different bands to a WiFi chip.
To summarise, they were probably already 90% of the way there.
Now let’s look at where they are going……..
A device that encompasses everything a phone has and more. Is it possible they could be a success yes, but come on the odds are against even a company as big as Apple.
Crash testing, wireless communications, hardware, G forces, wow the list goes on…...
Get Real man!
not sure what batteries you are talking about not improving in the past 20 years or what world you are living in but in the world I have been living in they certainly have improved and dramatically over the past 20 years and there are plenty of researchers on the cusp of the next big advances.