PCI SATA Cards - What is the state of compatibility?

[supernova777]

theres been some recent developments over at www.macos9lives.com in the storage section
basically the same guy who was responsible for creating the cards for firmtek is now actively posting on macos9lives forums and has plans to create some new firmware to allow booting macos9

also the answer re; digital audio / quiksilver compatibility has also been revealed there recently

 

[G4fanboy]

The user is (S)ATAman http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=profile;u=5931

Root cause for 3112 and 3114 hanging on Quicksilver + Digital A/V G4 in "sleep"

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5279.0.html

Highpoint cards - probably no mac rom/drivers

Highpoint cards - probably no mac rom/drivers

Highpoint cards - probably no mac rom/drivers

macos9lives.com

Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)

Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)

Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)

macos9lives.com

"I have absolutely no need to reverse-engineer it. Guess, why...

"

Sonnet Tempo ATA 133 PCI

Sonnet Tempo ATA 133 PCI (Promise chipset - PDC20269)

Sonnet Tempo ATA 133 PCI (Promise chipset - PDC20269)

macos9lives.com

"Not only that, I just got the green light from Sonnet.
No need to modify your card, only flash properly with the factory flash utility.
Would be nice to have it posted somewhere here, for everyone's benefit.

Sonnet does not see any business with UltraTek/100/133/Trio. So why not make the factory flash public?
Benefits you - and indirectly benefits me if you are happy."

silicon image pb3124 - sata 300 speed for powermac g4

silicon image pb3124 - sata 300 speed for powermac g4

silicon image pb3124 - sata 300 speed for powermac g4

macos9lives.com

"Among others wrote the ATA driver while with FWB - but that was in 1994 and there were other things later

Now spending much more time with NVMe and SAS than with ATA or SATA "

Login

Login

macos9lives.com

"Thanks - but looking today at my 3124 code from 2005 I see how bad it is.
I do have a Frodo and luckily I found the entire documentation in an old email.

Since 3124 is in very advanced state (it needs few days of update and clean-up on "X", nothing in FCode and porting "X" to "9") it makes the biggest sense now.

3112 and 3114 would be even easier - if not the problem with the Micrel regulator. That regulator spoils all the fun.
Even 3112 cards made by Adaptec have the regulator problem.

I will "open" both 3112 and 3114 ultimately but they will be maybe even after Frodo: Frodo is cheap, there is plenty, it is 64-bit and has at minimum 4 ports, at maximum 8.


So the plan for this year is 3124 first, than Frodo."

 

[weckart]

Having followed the guidance in the MacOS9lives thread linked above, I have succeeded in getting the 3112 based card to start in both a DA and a QS2002 and to display the SeriTek Firmware in System Profiler. It required replacing the AMC1117 3.3v controller with a MIC29150 3.3v controller chip in addition to replacing the BIOS chip.

So, I have managed to test SATA bootable support from my 9600 right through to my MDD from MacOS7.6 to 9.2.2 and from 10.4.0 to 10.5.8 with the SeriTek 1S2 firmware.

Details and some pictures here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5279.0.html

 

[TheShortTimer]

I suppose it's a no-go for this to work in my PPC desktops?

 

[weckart]

At the moment it won't work and also the 3114 is a very slow chip. You can check out the threads in MacOS9lives in the Storage section of the forums.

 

[TheShortTimer]

At the moment it won't work and also the 3114 is a very slow chip.

Oh? Slower than the 3112?

You can check out the threads in MacOS9lives in the Storage section of the forums.

Thanks, I'll have a look. It only cost me 50p from a boot sale so I've lost nothing. Perhaps I should stick it into one of my P3/P4 Winboxes.

 

[weckart]

Oh? Slower than the 3112?

Slower than ATA.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5534.0.html

 

[TheShortTimer]

From (S)ATAman's post...

I would NOT recommend 3114 for anything, that card really sux - except if you have slower older SATA drives or if you need to use more, than two drives. This explains, why there wasn't any FirmTek-branded 3114 ever, even that 3112 and 3114 are closely related.
Back than all my complains and requests to Silicon Image were unanswered.

Ah well, it was only 50p - the box makes for a nice doorstop.

 

[ervus]

I'm looking for a 64bit PCI SATA card and this is one of the more recent threads I've been able to find. Is there any news with these? Is the Sil3124 chip on a 64bit PCI card the only way to get 150+ MB/s on a G4?

 

[Tratkazir_the_1st]

@ervus
What about LSI SAS 3041X-R? At least E-R (PCI Express variation) works OOB on G5 Quad. Requires generic SATA cables, nothing Enterprise-grade like SFF-8087 or 8484.

 

[flyproductions]

Details and some pictures here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5279.0.html

So what has to be changed on the hardware side to get QS-compatibility with the 3112/14?

Can someone please post advice/pictures here instead of links to MacOS9lives, where you have to register first before you even can see pics?

Thanks!

 

[Amethyst1]

@ervus
What about LSI SAS 3041X-R? At least E-R (PCI Express variation) works OOB on G5 Quad. Requires generic SATA cables, nothing Enterprise-grade like SFF-8087 or 8484.

It's worth noting this card can only do 1.5 Gbps when used with SATA drives; to get the full 3 Gbps you need to use SAS drives.

 

[for this]

So what has to be changed on the hardware side to get QS-compatibility with the 3112/14?

Can someone please post advice/pictures here instead of links to MacOS9lives, where you have to register first before you even can see pics?

Thanks!

Replace the stock regulator with a 3.3V MIC29150 (I use MIC29150 3.3WU).

The left one has the stock regulator. The right one has it replaced.

 

[flyproductions]

Replace the stock regulator with a 3.3V MIC29150 (I use MIC29150 3.3WU).

The left one has the stock regulator. The right one has it replaced.

View attachment 2121894

Thanks! Exactly what i was hoping to see!

Did you butcher the part from some other hardware or order from some of the known sources?

 

[for this]

Thanks! Exactly what i was hoping to see!

Did you butcher the part from some other hardware or order from some of theknown sources?

I'm not sure if I ordered them from Farnell or RS Components.

 

[Tratkazir_the_1st]

@Amethyst1
Hmm... my drives there are all SAS 2,5" . At least you don't get compatibility issues with it, I suppose. LSI cards usually works with quite everything you connect. (Well, my primary goal was to expand drive capacity in numbers, wasn't too bothered with disk speed. I'll try to drop SATA SSD there someday ).

 

[flyproductions]

Well, my primary goal was to expand drive capacity in numbers, wasn't too bothered with disk speed.

If it's all about that... 😝

 

[Tratkazir_the_1st]

If it's all about that... 😝

Wow, this one IS huge ...

 

[weckart]

So what has to be changed on the hardware side to get QS-compatibility with the 3112/14?

Can someone please post advice/pictures here instead of links to MacOS9lives, where you have to register first before you even can see pics?

Thanks!

I got my chips from RS-online. The BIOS chip is now discontinued and the MIC2950 is on backorder there, so you might have to look elsewhere. Prices have risen a fair bit as well.

 

[flyproductions]

Replace the stock regulator with a 3.3V MIC29150.

...but, as this part also has 3.3 volts (like the one installed) on the output, what's the real difference to the one that's allready on the card after all?

Sorry, if the question is bit silly, but i also didn't get this point from the MacOS9lives-Thread. 😟

 

[for this]

...but, as this part also has 3.3 volts (like the one installed) on the output, what's the real difference to the one that's allready on the card after all?

Sorry, if the question is bit silly, but i also didn't get this point from the MacOS9lives-Thread. 😟

The idea seems to be QS and DA Powermacs need the 1.8V logic to be ready before the 3.3V logic to avoid hanging.

The AMS1117 3.3 converts 5V to 3.3V to feed the 3.3V logic, then the AMS1117 1.8 converts the 3.3V to 1.8V to feed the 1.8V logic.

The 3.3V logic may naturally take longer time to get ready than the 1.8V logic (hence the alternative solution is using a 5V to 3.3V and a 5V to 1.8V regulators, so that the 1.8V logic doesn't have to wait for the 3.3V power from the AMS1117 3.3 to get converted).

But it turns out the AMS1117 3.3 takes too long before it can supply full power at the moment the Mac is turning on. So there is just enough power to feed the 3.3V but not the 1.8V and the situation doesn't improve soon enough, making the 3.3V logic ready before the 1.8V. So to guarantee that the 1.8V gets fed soon enough, quicker acting regulator is needed.

I just try to make sense of the explanation in the thread. I may get it wrong all together.

 

[flyproductions]

Thanks again!

The 3.3V logic may naturally take longer time to get ready than the 1.8V logic (hence the alternative solution is using a 5V to 3.3V and a 5V to 1.8V regulators, so that the 1.8V logic doesn't have to wait for the 3.3V power from the AMS1117 3.3 to get converted).

...but in your solution there is only one part replaced, right?

But it turns out the AMS1117 3.3 takes too long before it can supply full power at the moment the Mac is turning on. So there is just enough power to feed the 3.3V but not the 1.8V and the situation doesn't improve soon enough, making the 3.3V logic ready before the 1.8V. So to guarantee that the 1.8V gets fed soon enough, quicker acting regulator is needed.

I just try to make sense of the explanation in the thread. I may get it wrong all together.

A bit more clear now. 😉

Are there any known alternatives to the part you are using (i. e. i have a FS8860 33C on some dead graphics card) or does it have to be this particular thing?

 

[ervus]

It looks like sonnet did the same thing on their SiI3112 boards.

 

[for this]

Thanks again!

...but in your solution there is only one part replaced, right?

Yes.

Thanks again!
A bit more clear now. 😉

It is just a guess. 😉

Are there any known alternatives to the part you are using (i. e. i have a FS8860 33C on some dead graphics card) or does it have to be this particular thing?

Seeing some less-serious shops call FS8860 and 1117 family regulators interchangeably. I think they are about the same.

If you want to try (at your own risk), and if the card's 3.3V and 1.8V regulator are of the same brand (most of them are 1117 family), then I would try lifting the 1.8V's input pin out of the pad and bridge it with the 3.3V's input pin using a wire. The xxx1117 1.8 can use 5V input (I would keep checking its temperature). This is technically their alternative solution they didn't use.

Since we don't know what's really going on in the card. I think the easiest and safest way to get the result is to follow what they do. MIC29150-3.3WT is in stock at both Farnell and RS. It is the same as MIC29150-3.3WU (MIC29150-3.3BU used in some Sonnet's cards is the older, non-RoHS version), just in different shape.

 

[for this]

It looks like sonnet did the same thing on their SiI3112 boards.
View attachment 2122661

(S)ATAman said MIC29150 is used in Silicon Image's reference design. But manufacturers didn't follow it.

He is right.