POTD rules discussions [MERGED]

[OldMacs4Me]

The point I wished to make was that dart throwing from the sidelines solves nothing. It really truly doesn’t. If you want to change something, start acting on what you want. Start the poll, start a thread. No one else will do it for you. The fact is, POTD is what it is and I don’t see it changing back to whatever it was in its nostalgic past. We can’t start excluding subjects and people. If you don’t want to take some sort of positive action, let’s move on and go back to posting what we love in POTD and be welcoming. There are some exceptional images there, too. Lots of them.

I really can't see anything positive coming from excluding certain types of images. It takes me less than a minute or two to scroll through a days images. I'll generally attach a like and occasionally an image will speak to me to a degree which will have me attaching a heart.

Like everyone I have a couple of things that drive me up the wall. One is tilted horizon lines, the other blown highlights. Even so I would never suggest excluding them entirely. Generally speaking I love extreme depth of field, but would never dream of demanding images with just a sliver of the subject in focus be excluded.

I like the way POTD is working and the huge variety of images and locations. If an image doesn't please me it takes only a second or so to scroll past it. If I really like an image I will linger and even zoom into full resolution so I know how the poster wanted me to see it.

 

[OldMacs4Me]

The first step to being a photographer-of any flavor-is picking up your camera(whatever form that image making device takes).

If a person's cat or dog is what catches their eye and causes them to take that first step, more power to them and it's better than them never having taken up the hobby.

I try not to post pet photos, but at the same time my dog is often a patient subject when I want to test something, and he makes a fun technical challenge as he is jet black and blends into the shadows.

I'll just say too that good pet photography isn't always easy...

Way back in the 1980s I blew through three rolls of 36 to get exactly 4 useable pics of our dogs and cats. With that in mind I will go so far as saying that pet photography can be extremely challenging. At least with a digital camera the cost of all the rejected images is time rather than hard earned cash.

 

[bondr006]

I definitely know how challenging good pet photography can be -- cats in particular can be really difficult! Been there done that.....

My objection here is that it seems as though more and more we are seeing not just an occasional photo of someone's pet but many of them, as though one person sees another's image and thinks, "oh, right, I'll post my photo of my kitty, too!" and all of a sudden we are inundated. The POTD isn't the "post a similar image" game; we've already got that running in another thread.

We've had this situation happen before when cats seemed to be taking over when some guy who apparently is obsessed with cats kept posting and posting and posting images of his household resident felines and others joined in.... Suddnenly it seemed as though every other image in the POTD was a photo of a cat or two. At that time, objections to this rather invasive inundation were raised and eventually the guy decided to take his photos of his felines elsewhere and finally after a while we also were no longer being bombarded by photo after photo after photo of someone else's pet cat(s).

Now it seems as though we're experiencing something similar again, although this time not in quite the same way, not apparently instigated as a deliberate joke the way the other episode seemed to be. This time people just seem to be posting their photos of their pets because, well, gee, others are.....

I shoot a lot of photos. I recently shot quite a lot of Alfred the GBH when he reappeared recently. Of course Alfred is not a domestic pet, he's a wild creature who happens to live in my neighborhood. He fascinates me and I do like to shoot photos of him when I see him. However, I think everyone who looks in on the POTD would get really tired of my postings very quickly if all I did was post photo after photo after photo of Alfred day after day after day. Thing is, I could easily do that, as I've got lots of edited and yet-to-be-edited images of him which probably would take me all the way with daily posts through the entire year of 2023 and probably into the next year and maybe even beyond! (Rest assured, I am NOT going to do this! I have more sense than to inundate viewers with one subject all the time). Actually, my strategy when posting on the POTD is to offer variety so that I am not posting similar images day after day after day. I try to vary my subjects and my approaches to them. I also try to make even ordinary subjects look a little extraordinary in some way. I don't want to bore viewers.

Yes, I am a big fan of documenting what I see before me or fortuitously find before me on a given day and I do indeed shoot images of whatever that might be. However, I am reasonably discriminating and thoughtful enough not to just splash out every image I shoot for display on here or on other sites in which I also participate. Some shots I like for personal reasons but they might not be especially interesting to a general audience. Others are good, but there are some images which to my eye are better, more compelling, better composed and better edited -- and those are the ones which eventually make it to the POTD thread here or to other sites.

I am "throwing darts from the sidelines" because I really do not want to see the POTD thread disintegrate into something it was never meant to be, a bunch of snapshots and the type of personal images more suited to sharing with the parents, the grandparents or the extended family on Instagram or FaceBook..... Not to mention images which actually could quite likely be perfectly at home if placed on another subforum on MR itself, one which is specifically meant for social media kinds of images in the first place.

You seem to be the only one at issue here. So far, I have seen no one else complain about how POTD is going, but just the opposite, everyone but you seems to be enjoying this community. I sense some control issues, or maybe your tenure here gives you a sense of privilege and you think your voice counts more? At any rate, let's just put up the poll and see what the community census is.

I have met people from all over the world here and greatly enjoy their personal works of art that they share with us. It's like taking a trip but never leaving the farm, while at the same time, experiencing the wonderful privilege of being part of an international community and making great new friends from around the world. I would truly hate to see that change just because of one disgruntled person. The quality of each individual submission here is very subjective, and depends on the experience and skill of the person who submitted it. I enjoy them all regardless of the level of skill or experience, simply for the fact that someone took a chance and shared what they see in their eyes, as their best. I have been a photographer for over 40 years, and yet I am still learning new things from all of you here. I am of "the needs of the many" camp, so let's just put the poll up and live with the results.

 

[mollyc]

The POTD thread was never meant to be a "social media" FB or Instagram type thread. MR already HAS a socially-oriented "Picture Gallery" for just that kind of image. Why is this so difficult for some people to grasp?

I feel like you probably don't spend much time on Instagram anymore (or ever?). If you can get past the reels, most photographers have a very curated feed and many deliberately plan out their grid. It is decidedly not an hour by hour depiction of their day as it was in 2011. Having Instagram worthy content is a goal, not a detriment.

Also, there is nothing inherently wrong with the idea of social media. It's not a dirty word. It is merely sharing (socially) photos (media) that people take. There has never been any type of qualitative measure for social media. If anything, having things social media quality means they are of "higher" quality as people don't want to be seen as slumming it or not keeping up with their friends. (And from that perspective it can be a mental drain). But to say that the photos in the POTD thread are just for Instagram really doesn't capture what modern Instagram is all about.

One thing to consider is that perhaps the POTD is not the thread for you anymore, rather than not the thread for others. The rest of us all like seeing a variety of photos, posters, and subjects. Perhaps the time has come for you to move on?

 

[r.harris1]

What I'd really like is for this conversation about "excluding" as regards the POTD thread to stop coming up once or twice per year (usually started by you Clix ), whether it is about camera type or subject. I don't care what the thread's original intent was or what people thought it was. It was started in a VERY different time and a very different context.

I remember the gentleman and his cats. I know I played a role in chasing him away and I deeply regret that. Never again. Bring on the cats and dogs and whatever.

If we need a poll (and I don't think we do), so be it. But I want Clix to put it up so the result is crystal clear and there's no revisiting later.

There's literally nothing stopping anyone from starting a more specialist thread a la P52.

 

[Clix Pix]

I do like the idea of a poll and am mulling over setting up one; it would definitely clarify things and the responses would serve as a way for all of us to move forward. I also like the idea of developing a thread specifically for users of dedicated cameras only, no iPhones or other smart phones. I'd thought of doing that in the past but never quite got around to starting one. Maybe now's the time....

Thank you all for your contributions to the discussion, I appreciate your input.

 

[rjjacobson]

I really can't see anything positive coming from excluding certain types of images. It takes me less than a minute or two to scroll through a days images. I'll generally attach a like and occasionally an image will speak to me to a degree which will have me attaching a heart.

Like everyone I have a couple of things that drive me up the wall. One is tilted horizon lines, the other blown highlights. Even so I would never suggest excluding them entirely. Generally speaking I love extreme depth of field, but would never dream of demanding images with just a sliver of the subject in focus be excluded.

I like the way POTD is working and the huge variety of images and locations. If an image doesn't please me it takes only a second or so to scroll past it. If I really like an image I will linger and even zoom into full resolution so I know how the poster wanted me to see it.

Interesting discussion. I joined group in past 4 months (invited by my friend @TheYayAreaLiving 🎗 ). I observed folks using both high end digital cameras to cheaper ones, and that many were using their iphones as well. Seemed to be a good place to me to share both my Cannon 7D photos as well as my iPhone photos. With the advent of better and better cameras on my newest iphones I find I am gravitating to more and more of my photos (except my closeup insect, bird and flower photos) on my iphone. I take lots of photos and then work with and pare down the dozens I can quickly take. I find the iphone more of a tool to take fairly good photos and not necessarily ones that are only good for instagram, Facebook and family slide shows personally. There is now overlap and the smartphones have opened up photography to many folks as has been discussed. Including me as an equally important tool to my DSLR Cannon.

I am not a professional but a casual hobbyist (with my back yard birds, butterflies, wife’s flowers, and nearby prairie ). I agree with comments that you can scroll by things that are not your flavor but I find many things I do like and some that lead to a heart like and indeed more examination. I have a collection of images to share (have done a number of my birds and such) that I are my iphone favorites as a geologist (as you may have seen in todays January post). But I probably will go back and work on bird selections although I am not sure I will remember what I posted 6 months back at some point LOL.

I like the group the way it is and hope that it will continue the way it is.

 

[rjjacobson]

What I'd really like is for this conversation about "excluding" as regards the POTD thread to stop coming up once or twice per year (usually started by you Clix ), whether it is about camera type or subject. I don't care what the thread's original intent was or what people thought it was. It was started in a VERY different time and a very different context.

I remember the gentleman and his cats. I know I played a role in chasing him away and I deeply regret that. Never again. Bring on the cats and dogs and whatever.

If we need a poll (and I don't think we do), so be it. But I want Clix to put it up so the result is crystal clear and there's no revisiting later.

There's literally nothing stopping anyone from starting a more specialist thread a la P52.

Yeah I believe what the group was (pre iphone/smartphone) and what it is now has evolved/changed. The gap between professional cameras and techniques and smartphones and software/lenses that allow lots of creativity on the user is narrowing. It is good to see folks using both tools and the expansion the later has allowed here.

 

[soulreaver99]

I’d like people to post the images they like of the subjects that they enjoy or love. As far as pets, people love their animal companions and for me, people posting helps me know another person and helps build community, especially when people feel empowered and welcome to post here. I’ve gotten hung up on what constitutes a subject in the past and it has chased away some very interesting people. I regret that immensely. Community is so important (to me). All comers, all cameras, all skill levels, all subjects - one post per day .

Thanks for chiming in. I think one of my first posts on this thread was of my cat, and some other random photos taken with my point and shoot, early iPhones, etc and I like to believe that I've improved over time with the help of looking at everyone else's random photos taken with different gear. And yes I always thought the intent of this thread is exactly as stated in the last sentence of your post of All comers, all cameras, all skill levels, all subjects - one post per day.

Just recently I've been taking a lot of photos using my iPhone and A7III of my son, and I certainly don't see the harm in anyone sharing photos of their pets, daily activities, etc. If a photo bothers you, just ignore and keep scrolling

@Clix Pix - i've been a huge fan of your photos since the beginning and I do get that you don't want to turn this into a facebook or instagram. at the same time I don't want people to feel that this is not a friendly place to share photos that make them happy

 

[dimme]

I would be total against limiting post to "dedicated cameras". Sometimes the best photos is with the camera you have in your hand. Sometimes that may be a phone. It's not the equipment but the person behind the equipment.

 

[someoldguy]

Maybe this is just a dog n' cat streak . Seems that there are often 'runs' of photos of similar subjects . Think flowers and bugs in the summer . Sometimes there's a run of cars . Why not everyone just sit back and see if 'this ,too , shall pass'.

 

[Clix Pix]

I've decided not to bother with a poll. People who wanted to express their thoughts have done so here in this thread anyway and that has been sufficient..... Again, thanks for the input, everyone!

 

[chown33]

Moderation Note

A large number of recent posts were moved from a POTD thread to this thread.
Please continue any discussion of changes to rules for POTD threads here.

Please don't divert POTD threads into meta-topics, such as what should be in POTD threads.


If a poll is desired for this thread, it can be added. Please use the Report button and outline the desired parameters. Or start a new thread with the desired poll.

 

[Clix Pix]

Thank you! Mea culpa, I should have remembered or at least checked to see that there was already an existing discussion of the POTD rules.....

 

[soulreaver99]

Thank you! Mea culpa, I should have remembered or at least checked to see that there was already an existing discussion of the POTD rules.....

troublemaker...

 

[_timo_redux_]

I scrolled through this discussion and had a few thoughts, from the perspective of someone only recently registered here.

• I get why someone might be tired of pet pictures, just as others may tire of sunset pictures, or street pictures, or really any common or clichéd subject. I'm sure it's obvious but worth stating that many pictures we make are personally meaningful for reasons that are above or beyond what's in the picture. We know and love our pet. We had a special tingle on the beach feeling enveloped by the encroaching dusk. We want to share that feeling. Part of the trick with curating one's own images for display in the wider world is being on the lookout for images that speak to people /without/ their having had to have been there. So: looking for jokes, not just inside jokes
• On the smaller subject of pet photos: there are /extraordinary/ animal pictures in the world ... not just the technically fine safari shots, but e.g. Daido Moriyama's 1971 "Stray Dog." Let's remember a great pictures could really be "about" (in terms of subject matter) anything, because a great picture transcends mere subject matter
• Re: good pictures, I see two truisms in conflict: constraints (rules and the like) are jet fuel for creativity. But at the same time, you can't successfully police for a goal of "quality." For whatever reason, people have to challenge themselves, via constraints or their own rules or histories, in order to do "better"* work -- if that's what they want to do. And just as people are so different, their constraints and rules that may help them grow could hardly be generalized
• It might be interesting for more "constraints" threads: set up the rules and see what shakes out. That being said, I'll guess most people don't have a lot of extra time for these projects, and rather want to participate with what they've got, in no small part because they like being a part of a community

* "better", like everything else, is at base personal and subjective

 

[r.harris1]

I scrolled through this discussion and had a few thoughts, from the perspective of someone only recently registered here.

• I get why someone might be tired of pet pictures, just as others may tire of sunset pictures, or street pictures, or really any common or clichéd subject. I'm sure it's obvious but worth stating that many pictures we make are personally meaningful for reasons that are above or beyond what's in the picture. We know and love our pet. We had a special tingle on the beach feeling enveloped by the encroaching dusk. We want to share that feeling. Part of the trick with curating one's own images for display in the wider world is being on the lookout for images that speak to people /without/ their having had to have been there. So: looking for jokes, not just inside jokes
• On the smaller subject of pet photos: there are /extraordinary/ animal pictures in the world ... not just the technically fine safari shots, but e.g. Daido Moriyama's 1971 "Stray Dog." Let's remember a great pictures could really be "about" (in terms of subject matter) anything, because a great picture transcends mere subject matter
• Re: good pictures, I see two truisms in conflict: constraints (rules and the like) are jet fuel for creativity. But at the same time, you can't successfully police for a goal of "quality." For whatever reason, people have to challenge themselves, via constraints or their own rules or histories, in order to do "better"* work -- if that's what they want to do. And just as people are so different, their constraints and rules that may help them grow could hardly be generalized
• It might be interesting for more "constraints" threads: set up the rules and see what shakes out. That being said, I'll guess most people don't have a lot of extra time for these projects, and rather want to participate with what they've got, in no small part because they like being a part of a community

* "better", like everything else, is at base personal and subjective

Thank you! I really like new voices and thoughts here.

 

[mollyc]

Ah, sorry, I missed that point altogether, as I thought it was pretty clear from the context of both Hugh's and my earlier posts that there was mention of something from the past...and that I was going to look for an image relating to that, which I did, and then finally having found at least one image, since he had requested this, I shared it here. Yes, that whole discussion should have been somewhere else, not in the middle of the POTD gallery thread.

Mind you, I'd already posted and shared my actual and current "POTD Entry" earlier in the day.

Seriously, folks, this POTD thread is meant to be purely a gallery of photos of the day, not a discussion thread, not a thread for lots of potentially irrelevant comments from the "peanut gallery," and, yes, also not the place for resurrection of old images thread, etc., etc....

Unfortunately it seems as though the rules and guidelines for both the Digital Photography Subforum and the POTD Gallery thread have been blithely ignored over the past several months, with people posting multiple images, with people posting images of scenes that they actually haven't shot themselves, people getting involved in discussions which then detract from the original image and the purpose of the thread, with people posting videos, maps and other non-related material, etc., etc.

It really would be nice if we could just get back to the actual and original intent of the POTD thread concept.

ONE post of ONE original IRL real-actual-scene (no screen caps or iPhone snapshots of other peoples' images) photo per day, an image actually shot by the person posting on the current POTD thread. People''s best and most interesting images from wherever around the world they are. No lengthy discussions that tend to veer off-topic... Just photos. Seriously, how hard is that? We even permit old stuff from the poster's personal photo archives, no requirement that material be fresh and new....

Want to have a discussion about something someone has posted or the location / scenery around there or whatever? Great! Just go right ahead and start a new thread in the Digital Photography subforum -- we've got lots of room to do that! After looking at an image, you've got a kind of off-track but sort of related cool story to relate? Interesting! Just go right into the main Digital Photography subforum and start a new discussion thread there or perhaps share your comments privately with the photographer in a PM.

Or if relevant, post your question(s) or discussion comments in Molly's year-long workshop thread....which is meant to be a sharing/learning experience....

And yes, in my last several posts it will be noted that indeed I have deliberately violated all of the guidelines and such that have been so carefully set in place. Bottom line: This, the POTD thread, is not a discussion thread. it's meant to be a gallery thread of images.

Isn't it time to let the POTD thread/gallery of members' best and most interesting images get back to its original intent?

Have you actually gone back to the original POTD thread? Recently that is....I know you posted in it originally. But I think you are remembering it with some sort of rose colored glasses, to be honest. I've linked it several times, but here it is again. I admit I haven't read all 352 pages worth, but I have skimmed a lot of it - the first ten pages or so and then random pages by choosing a "Go to Page" option. Spot checking random pages thoughout the entire thread shows a lot of back and forth banter.

I have yet to find once where Gary disallowed any discussion of images, where he forbids multiple photos in one day or otherwise gatekeeps the concept of friendly chatting within the thread. There is a LOT of chatter in that thread, discussing people's photos, getting slightly off track. In no way is it a photo in every post kind of thread. How else do you think we get to know every one?

In fact, when someone asked Gary if it was okay if occasionally they posted more than one photo, he said he didn't care!

I think we've pretty well established that we all post pretty much daily and interact daily, which is really all Gary ever wanted with the the POTD thread.

You yammering on about the "rules" is more disruptive than people talking about locations where multiple people have photographed the same thing. And we have THIS thread already started to talk about the rules. Why is it okay for YOU to go off topic and not others?

Gary was welcome and inclusive to all photographers and was postive with everyone who posted from what I have gleaned. And guess what...he isn't here anymore....so now the thread is run by the people who ARE here, posting, and as a collective group, it tends to run itself pretty well. You have not gotten a majority, or even a single agreement to change the way it is going currently.

It is tiresome to read your complaints about the POTD and they are seemingly coming with more frequency. If you really want to change it, then do something positive and productive about it like starting the poll, or staring a new type of thread. And if you really don't like the way it's run right now, then maybe you should take a step back from participating in it.

 

[OldMacs4Me]

I am crosslinking this to the POTD thread.

I have been a regular contributor to the POTD thread for more than two years. I have come to love the comfortable camaraderie that is the heart and soul of the POTD. About 2 weeks ago I had made the decision to temporarily step away from the POTD thread. I wanted to back-link to the previous days post, which was intended to be my last. However that image of a Teddy bear had vanished with only a vague explanation from a moderator. I finally determined that someone had lodged a complaint and the moderator had removed that image plus two or three others, presumably because those images did not comply with the complainants own strict (mis)interpretation of the rules.

That back door cancel culture approach came across as extremely rude and underhanded, and left a sour taste in my mouth. I said so at the time, then forgot all about it, until I realized that a couple of my favorite posters had recently disappeared. A little digging revealed one of them had been similarly ambushed. It occurs to me that the individual responsible for these attacks literally had to dig a deep trench to set the pettiness bar that low.

That said I am not here to moan, groan or recriminate, but to offer what I think is a saner approach. One that hopefully does not see any more valued contributors leaving the POTD family after being on the receiving end of this sort of back door cancel culture abuse.

We have a solid, fair-minded and mature community. We also have the POTD Rules discussion thread, where in the absence of the OP, we have discussed at length how the rules should be interpreted. My proposal is quite simple. I suggest we add this line to the POTD introduction:
If you feel an image posted in this thread fails to meet the guidelines please start a discussion in the POTD rules discussion thread and let the community discuss it at length.

I also suggest the POTD thread should be flagged and if moderators receive any such requests, they should reject them outright or refer them to the POTD rules discussion thread for review by the POTD community. However a complaint arrives, if there is general agreement the image should be removed, then the poster should be notified of the decision, given the exact reason for the decision, and given a fair chance to respond before being asked to remove the image.

IOW no more back door hatchet attacks.

 

[mollyc]

I am all for more transparency. But unfortunately I think some people prefer to hide behind a moderator rather than talking about things rationally.

 

[r.harris1]

Being adults sounds like a great idea to me! I’m all for transparency.