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ShiftyPig

macrumors 6502a
Aug 24, 2008
567
0
AU
Prominent Analysts See iPhone With 'Two or Three-Year Lead'

Duh. iPhone came out in Summer 2007 and we're just now seeing phones that have the same capabilites. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's a 2.5 years :rolleyes:

iPod touch's should come with a microphone and a feature that can recognize if its owner refers to it as an iTouch. Upon sensing this, the iPod would brick itself.
 

MacDaddy901

macrumors 6502
Nov 24, 2008
265
0
I've been a Windows user all my life and I know what all the Apple brand names are. Stop stereotyping, you make Mac users look very boorish.

I was making a joke, not intended at you. The iPod touch/iTouch debacle has been going on since it was introduced. And I won't stereotype all Windows users, as I am one myself.
 

the vj

macrumors 6502a
Nov 23, 2006
654
0
In other words...

If you want to get really rich invent an smartphone.

Oups... I forgot, Apple has taken that path already.

In my country (Venezuela) everything is going to hell, except cell phone carriers.

Hugo Chavez is detroying everything but cell phone operators are making more money than the oil industry.

The reason?

Way too much traffic, people need to drive their business and operations from their cars or walking.

Then, no public phones works and actually, there are not around anymore. So for one reason or another you need a cellphone.
 

iphones4evry1

macrumors 65816
Nov 26, 2008
1,197
0
California, USA
iPod touch's should come with a microphone and a feature that can recognize if its owner refers to it as an iTouch. Upon sensing this, the iPod would brick itself.

I'm hoping that voice recognition becomes accurate enough that we can we can walk up to our own iPhone and say "unlock," and it recognizes our voice. If another person tries that, it won't work.
 

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
The graph is relevant not because it shows total numbers, but because it shows rate of growth.

No, it shows absolute numbers, not rates of growth. However, one could take the same data and plot rates of growth on it. From a quick eyeball, the iPhone would appear fairly paltry on such a plot, if one started with the adoption size of the first month and worked from there (5 months later iPhone has 4x original market; Netscape hit that in two months, as did NTT; AOL hit about the same 4x in 5 months rate as iPhone) [obviously you can't start such a plot at month 0 because then everything would be infinite from the first month on ...].

You could make AOL look nearly straight up-and-down too, but manipulating the scale on the y axis. The simple problem is, though, that 1M subscribers to an internet service in 1990 and 1M subscribers to an internet service in 2009 are two very different things, both in absolute profit terms and in market dominance terms.
 

cvaldes

macrumors 68040
Dec 14, 2006
3,237
0
somewhere else
Duh. iPhone came out in Summer 2007 and we're just now seeing phones that have the same capabilites.
You are forgetting that the original iPhone did not have a lot of capabilities beyond e-mail, web browsing and a couple of informational apps.

The acceleration of the iPhone really started after the App Store launched in Summer 2008, just 1.5 years ago; the first six months of the App Store had pretty slim pickings.
 

LagunaSol

macrumors 601
Apr 3, 2003
4,798
0
No, it shows absolute numbers, not rates of growth.

Um, no. Are you looking at the first image? It shows numbers of subscribers (Y) as they increase over time (X). That's a growth curve (per Wikipedia, "A growth curve is an empirical model of the evolution of a quantity over time.").

You could make AOL look nearly straight up-and-down too, but manipulating the scale on the y axis.

I think you're completely missing the point of the graph - in this case being a comparative tool.
 

Michael CM1

macrumors 603
Feb 4, 2008
5,681
276
Why? Competition isn't a good thing?

/Whaps own head three times

Geez, another "one of us -- competition is good" responses. C'mon. Sure, competition is usually good. But this doesnt' mean we can't root for Microsoft to rot in Hades. There are plenty of mobile device competitors to wish MS a swift demise in that market. It's also awesome to wish such a thing for such a craptastic product.

I personally want Windows' user numbers to keep going down because maybe Mac OS and other OSes will get more respectability and people won't just say "mmm, Windows good." After the years I spent thinking Windows and only Windows was the one to use, I'm so glad to have ventured out. Same thing goes for mobile, but I want the weak competitors to die or get better. RIM and Google seem to be doing OK with their offerings, but Palm and Microsoft, notsomuch.
 

reverie

macrumors regular
Nov 21, 2006
163
60
Berlin, Germany
Don't know, the second graph is not as meaningful as it would like to be. NetApplications and AdMob statistics are not representative. AdMob even has disclaimers saying so all over their website. NetApplications had to make several embarrassing corrections of their data this year.
 

LagunaSol

macrumors 601
Apr 3, 2003
4,798
0
After the years I spent thinking Windows and only Windows was the one to use, I'm so glad to have ventured out.

AidenShaw is going to be very displeased.

"Lost another one to Apple!"

ned-759953.jpg
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
WinMo strategy at MS:

75990strip.gif



Anyway, in related news, what happened to the Storm 2? It was released in October but it seems to have went almost unnoticed (it WAS released, right?) Or is RIM really in that much troble when it comes to ideas?
 

lazyrighteye

Contributor
Jan 16, 2002
4,105
6,326
Denver, CO
And you think Verizon would be any better at handling the iPhone that AT&T... Oh would you like to browse the web while talking. Sorry, can't do that on VZ.

I've used a smart phone on the VZW nework. There were SO MANY frustrations... Like transferring an image from my device to my Mac required I subscribe to an additional VZW service, at an additional monthly fee, that would require me to log into their site to access my phone pics.

Everyone likes to talk about moving the iPhone from AT&T to VZW like it's some sort of magic bullet. But what these same people seem to forget (or just don't know) is there is no way a devce as robust as the iPhone would even be allowed on their network - in it's current state. Nope, VZW is NOTORIOUS for crippling device features only to turn arond & resell those features back to the consumer under their proprietary services. A complete racket. And one of the many reasons I have zero interest in a VZW iPhone.
 

LagunaSol

macrumors 601
Apr 3, 2003
4,798
0
Anyway, in related news, what happened to the Storm 2? It was released in October but it seems to have went almost unnoticed (it WAS released, right?)

It was released. All the reviews I read gave it a collective "Meh." RIM appears determined to cede the consumer smartphone market to a competitor.
 

Johnchapin

macrumors member
Jun 8, 2008
99
8
Boulder
Best of both worlds

I am privlidged to have an iPhone and a Verizon cell dongle for a laptop. A tad expensive but oh so useful when traveling. They pay for themselves. I had quite a chuckle when someone said people don't use smart phones for the web.

iPhone greats:
Being able to type in restaurants or vet (for vetenarians) and finding locations, directions, menus, etc
Making reservations at motels, etc. If only the motels could get their acts together, and make this more useable. Apparently they have never tried to reserve a room while driving down a road, even as a passenger in a car.
All the apps. You wouldn't believe my favorite for all its simplicity. It's called Flashlight.

iPhone cons:
The small screen. I'm an old guy.
Trying to scroll and read without accidently taping a link and no quick way to back out without reloading the previous screen. I hope NYTimes figures this out soon.
ATT 3G coverage and data pipe. The Verizon 3G ads don't lie or exaggerate.
ATT's bad reputation. I mean it's been so bad for so long, ATT was my only hurdle to get over to buy an iPhone. OK, I'm a grouchy old guy.

Verizon greats:
3G coverage. I travel and live in remote areas of the southwest US.
Being able to use a laptop screen. Why on earth can't Apple tether an iPhone to a large screen? I'm not talking a computer, just a large display.
The bandwidth. I'm very pleasantly surprized to get a Mbps download speed on the far fringes (15 miles away) of a 3G tower (Red Mtn near Patagonia, AZ) as measured on PCPitstop. Let's see ATT do that in the middle of San Francisco.

Verizon cons:
Their 2-year gotchas and their new 2X breakup fee. I hope they can soon figure out what makes Google so great and stop treating their customers as cash cows to be milked. Standard for the industry. How about outside the box? Hint for web page developers: What do you get when you load google.com. Further hint: You don't get any garbage except for a very nice, frequently updated logo. Hint for VZ: How about a new business model. Your's is broken and soon to be obsolete.
 

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
JetTredmont said:
LagunaSol said:
The graph is relevant not because it shows total numbers, but because it shows rate of growth.
No, it shows absolute numbers, not rates of growth. However, one could take the same data and plot rates of growth on it.

Um, no. Are you looking at the first image? It shows numbers of subscribers (Y) as they increase over time (X). That's a growth curve (per Wikipedia, "A growth curve is an empirical model of the evolution of a quantity over time.").

Yes, that is a growth curve, and the slope of a growth curve is the rate of growth. However, you are NOT seeing a comparison of rates of growth, or even a comparison of growth, but rather a comparison of absolute quantities (current size). The difference is that between the value of a line at a point - f(x) - and the slope of that line at a point relative to its value at that point - f'(x)/x.

If you want a Wikipedia reference, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth_rate and skip half a page down; you'll see the f'(x)/x formula in all its glory.

In terms of rate of growth, adding 100 customers when you have 1000 is a much smaller rate of growth than adding 50 customers when you had 100.

Again, if you were comparing rate of growth you'd have things like x% growth from one month to the next. Apple's rate of growth here is not overly impressive compared to the other folks (primarily because those folks have some legendary growth curves).

Another way of expressing growth (and IMHO a far more meaningful way) is as a % of the overall market, which these graphs do not convey at all. I don't know how the numbers stack up there, but having lived through AOL and Netscape growth periods (less directly AOL) I have a pretty good idea that these guys gained a near monopoly on their respective markets very early and grew those markets incredibly fast. They grew their own subscriber base, in the first several months, by about the size of the entire market. Doesn't seem to be the case in Apple's case - they have grown the consumer smartphone market, but not like the WWW in 1994/5.

I think you're completely missing the point of the graph - in this case being a comparative tool.

Yes, but if you are comparing multiple lines in a single graph you need a comparable scale for the different plots. The simple fact is that a single subscriber in 1995 and in 1990 had significantly more value - both in terms of what that meant for market dominance and in strictly financial terms - than a single subscriber today.

Example: if I plot the number of people who stepped into the first Macy's store in 1929 to the number of people who stepped into the first Microsoft stores in 2009, the Microsoft store's numbers would look surprisingly like the iPhone numbers in that chart and the Macy's numbers would look surprisingly similar to the AOL/Netscape numbers. Yet, I think a rational observer would understand that Macy's growth rate is significantly more meaningful than Microsoft's.

I'm not saying Apple's position is not good here (and I do expect the iPhone to be around a lot longer than the Microsoft Retail experiment). I'm just saying that these charts are not showing it. They are simply comparing apples and oranges, and that's no way to present a case.
 

katiepea

macrumors member
Jul 14, 2008
36
0
once again

iphone bloat sheaths reality. i don't care about traffic, the fact of the matter is is that RIM still owns twice the market share the iphone does, and android is geared up to release some pretty stellar devices, other studies i've read note that in spite of incredible sales, people fall out of love with the iphone after 1-2 years with the device (much like i did) and move on to more adult focused hardware. bottom line, apple needs to change their workings if they want to continue this trend. everytime one of my blackberry friends asks me what is sacrificed if they change to iphone, the idea ends there. iphone should be featuring push email for all email accounts and background processing, i'd also like a better display if i were designing it, my bold has a better screen than the iphone, as does the droid. ANYWAY, my point is i switched because i felt it getting stagnant, and i think other people do too. RIM is about to launch a webkit browser and they have open development support for and incredible amount of new api's and opengl. at that point, i don't see how the iphone will be better in any aspect other than possible the 'look i got an iphone' crowd. RIM just posted INCREDIBLE quarter numbers, and still own x2 the marketshare apple does, while i do indeed HATE the iphone, i'm thankful for it's existence as it makes my blackberry experience get better every year.
 

LagunaSol

macrumors 601
Apr 3, 2003
4,798
0
android is geared up to release some pretty stellar devices

Like a bad sports team, this seems to be the rallying cry for Android (and Windows Mobile and RIM for that matter): "Just wait until next year!"

Hmm, maybe Apple is geared up to "release some pretty stellar devices" too? Nah! Couldn't be!!!

other studies i've read note that in spite of incredible sales, people fall out of love with the iphone after 1-2 years with the device (much like i did)

Link please? All the "studies" I've seen show the iPhone with an unprecedented customer satisfaction rate, regardless of year. :confused:

and move on to more adult focused hardware.

LOL! The old "Apple stuff is for kids" line gets 'em every time!

RIM is about to launch a webkit browser and they have open development support for and incredible amount of new api's and opengl.

"Just wait until next year!"

while i do indeed HATE the iphone,

Yeah, your "I'm a bitter iPhone divorcee" schtick is quite clear.

"Just wait until next year!" ;)
 

numediaman

macrumors 6502a
Jan 5, 2004
541
0
Chicago (by way of SF)
"Analysts".

You can substitute the word "analyst" into any "lawyer" joke and it still works.

Q: What do you call 5000 dead analysts at the bottom of the ocean?
A: A good start!

Q: How can you tell when a analyst is lying?
A: His lips are moving.​
 
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