Recommended Writing App (for book)

[Traverse]

It's pretty 'sick'. Been running notes on the right half of the iPad screen and a local server login (wordpress) blogger on the right for about a month. Copy pasting back and forth is just so easy, now. You'll definitely like the split screen.

Not to mention the enhance keyboard so I don't have to hold my finger down and then grab those tiny blue nubs to select text! Plus there is a dedicated button for copy and paste now! I can't wait, though I'll need a new iPad to use split screen. My poor iPad 3 has run its course.

 

[NonSoft]

I think perhaps there are some differences between the trial version of Ulysses and the pay version.

A few examples of things that I saw in above posts that don't line up with what I see in the app:

Ulysses does not have an "Export to Word" function

It's right under 'Quick Export':


You can even view the preview of the exported format directly in Ulysses:

so to move to another app you'd have to export each section or manually copy and past over to a new app. That is WAY too much work.

If you wanted to move all of your work to a different application you would just go to 'All' in your Ulysses library, CMD+A all sheets, then export them all at once:

I don't like how bolding something makes it pink, and italics make a word blue. You can customize the theme but that's overly complex.

I'm assuming you are talking about this screen:


It may look a touch complex, but it's quite easy to navigate to the color in question and change it to something more appealing. Even easier is to simply select one of the pre-defined themes offered (Or download a new one from the link in the app).

Also, any perceived complexity here is dwarfed by how convoluted the Scrivener options are:


That said, I agree with the general sentiment most have expressed above. I think both are great applications, and most everyone would probably be happy with either. If you require more options for organization, structure, etc. and can deal with the dated interface, then Scrivener is a solid choice. If you prefer lightweight organization and want something that mostly just gets out of your way you may want to go with Ulysses.

After years of using Scrivener I switched most of my writing to Ulysses (I still have some that is in Scrivener). If I had to choose one though I'd go with Ulysses.

 

[Traverse]

I think perhaps there are some differences between the trial version of Ulysses and the pay version.

A few examples of things that I saw in above posts that don't line up with what I see in the app:

This is a new feature from last week's update (or this week?). When I originally wrote that, it was not an option.

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That exports them as one big file, I don't want to lose my individual separate entires, but Scrivener is no better here.

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Yes, that's the screen I meant. I don't feel like messing with that, but I agree that Scrivener is very complex, but for me the default settings are mostly perfect so I don't have to enter that screen too much. It's a personal choice.

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I agree with your conclusions. It's great that both offer trials so people can experiment. I tried both and just don't like Ulysses, whereas you like it.[/QUOTE]

 

[NonSoft]

This is a new feature from last week's update (or this week?)

Ha, you're right. I never use that functionality so I just assumed it had always been there.


That does highlight a good point about the two products though. While both are actively developed, only Ulysses receives regular updates.

I'm sure at some point we will see the fruits of L&L's labor, but at this point it has been quite some time since an update. In terms of features this is probably a good thing as Scrivener is already a prime example of feature bloat in a product, but it could certainly use a UI overhaul.

 

[Traverse]

That does highlight a good point about the two products though. While both are actively developed, only Ulysses receives regular updates.

I'm sure at some point we will see the fruits of L&L's labor, but at this point it has been quite some time since an update. In terms of features this is probably a good thing as Scrivener is already a prime example of feature bloat in a product, but it could certainly use a UI overhaul.

This is true and I mentioned it in my earlier post. Scrivener has a small team and their updates are slow, but their product is rock solid. I've never once had a crash, freeze, or lag.

Also, about feature bloat. Scrivener is kind of like Word, they add all the features you could want, so it gets crowded. What I like though is that you can readily hide and ignore all the features you don't want. I think the UI could use some fresh updates, but I don't want them to go toward the minimalist style of Ulysses. While there is great value in that, there are some amazing features that just aren't there in other products. The in-project links are a great example of this.

Both apps have their respective audiences and I think it would be foolish for either app to aspire to match the other.

 

[Rusty33]

Ulysses and Scrivener both have forms of versioning control. Ulysses does it automatically when you manually save and Scrivener achieves that effect when you "take a snapshot." I like iBooks Author because it reminds me of the old Pages, but I don't use it.

Trials are really a great thing. I tried the Ulysses trial again on a new system, imported some of my notes from scrivener and really REALLY wanted to like it. On it's face, it seems like Ulysses would be perfect for me, but I just can't "get with it." I don't like how bolding something makes it pink, and italics make a word blue. You can customize the theme but that's overly complex. There are no inter-page links and although you can assign keywords, if you right-click in the tag area it clears them all! Had I paid $45 for Ulysses I would have been bitterly disappointed.

I really want to like it, but I just can't seem to get with its flow. Also, it kind of goes against what Markdown stands for. Markdown was supposed to be a universal format so you could take your files and use them with any markdown editor and never lose stride, but Ulysses keeps all your files hidden in the library as unreadable ".ulysses" files so to move to another app you'd have to export each section or manually copy and past over to a new app. That is WAY too much work. Scrivener is no better about that, but it doesn't feature Markdown as a key feature. Ulysses is a markdown app, so it should abide by Markdown's app-agnostic nature. Of course, this is all my opinion.

I really can't wait for Scrivener for iPad. They claim it's done and in testing with a release scheduled for "late summer" but that will probably be around October (I'm guessing). Ulysses has the iOS side down, but they've been having issues with iCloud Sync. Scrivener is only utilizing Dropbox for the time being because of iCloud's finicky nature and I wish Ulysses offered that too. Ulysses wants to store your notes in iCloud, which I don't trust, but they do have a new automatic backup system. Also, and this may be of importance to you, there were some reviews saying that Ulysses had stability problems with large walls of text (45,000 words I think). If you're going to write a long book, it may not be the best choice.

I'm excited for Apple's new Notes app. I think that will be my go-to place for my thoughts when I'm on the go and when I get home or sit back with my iPad, I can take those notes and put them into Scrivener (split screen on iPad finally ). I doubt you'll see a Scrivener iPhone app, whereas Ulysses says one is coming.

I am not trying to discourage you from using Ulysses. Try it and you may love it, but I am trying it for the first time too and just wanted to share my thoughts. Also, I had some funky bugs with the trial version creating duplicate notes even for local files? :/ There have been reviews on the Mac App Store about crashing problems. I can say that in the year I've used Scrivener even for really big projects (several hundred MB thesis with 80,000 words, 30 PDFS, images, etc.) I never had a single bug present itself or a single crash. The only think that takes a minute (usually with the beach ball) is when you compile a large document for export, but that's not the app freezing, it's just...well...compiling. I'm sure there are bugs and crashes, but I've never had a single hitch with it in my experience. It's one of the most stable apps i've ever used.

Honestly, the OS X app doesn't tempt me at all. The iPad app still tempts me because it is one of the few FULL featured writing apps for iPad. But without it's companion OS X app, what's the point? I'll wait, with great hope, for Scrivener.

Wow - is there updated news on a scrivener iOS release?!

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I'm a fan of Mariner Software's StoryMill for novel writing. All of their apps are centered around writers and are very nicely written and intuitive.

 

[NonSoft]

Wow - is there updated news on a scrivener iOS release?!

Apparently it is feature complete, but last I saw they were looking to hire an iOS developer. I'd be surprised if we saw it any time soon. http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31592

 

[Traverse]

Wow - is there updated news on a scrivener iOS release?!

In March it was announced to be feature-complete and entering internal beta testing. It would then be released for a small number of public beta testers and released in "late summer." However, there hasn't been another mention and they are now hiring another iOS developer to "speed up the process" so it will likely be fall.

 

[Rusty33]

In March it was announced to be feature-complete and entering internal beta testing. It would then be released for a small number of public beta testers and released in "late summer." However, there hasn't been another mention and they are now hiring another iOS developer to "speed up the process" so it will likely be fall.

Ahh - thanks. Yes I saw that one. I like your bold prediction of the fall...2016?

 

[Traverse]

Ahh - thanks. Yes I saw that one. I like your bold prediction of the fall...2016?

No, I actually think it will be out this year, but not by summer.

 

[Floris]

Different needs, different solutions. But my first short story was all done in TextMate, a more serious writing after that was done in iA Writer Pro. But me, I want just text, I don't need fancy features, I want a clear big font and big margins and comfortable search/editing. The simpler, the better.

 

[Traverse]

@NonSoft

Also, something that bugs me with Ulysses is that there is no text justification options that I can tell. If I was writing a book or something, I would like to be able to center some text and justify paragraphs.

 

[jmiddel]

I wonder why nobody has mentioned Mellel, a very competent word processor made especially for writers, as opposed to office folk.

 

[NonSoft]

@NonSoft

Also, something that bugs me with Ulysses is that there is no text justification options that I can tell. If I was writing a book or something, I would like to be able to center some text and justify paragraphs.

That sort of formatting is done on exporting.

If for example you wanted a quote at the beginning of a chapter you could do something like this.

For example, if I take some text and put it in the editor:


Then let's say that I wanted to treat the first paragraph as a quote so I wanted it centered. I'd put a > indicating it is a block quote and it looks like this in the editor:



Then upon exporting (Default options) it looks like this:


I think the main thing to keep in mind is that it isn't WYSIWYG, so you have to export to see the final result.

Also, there are a number of good Styles available on their site catering to different needs (ex. Academic, Novels, etc.).

 

[Traverse]

I think the main thing to keep in mind is that it isn't WYSIWYG, so you have to export to see the final result.

Also, there are a number of good Styles available on their site catering to different needs (ex. Academic, Novels, etc.).

That's the big difference. I was actually playing around with customized export styles and liked the process. The problem for me is, most of my writing will never leave the app, so I would like to be able to see certain elements in-app. I'd like to see justified text and paragraph indents just because it is visually appealing to me and I'm the one that will look at it.

If the OP is writing a novel and will export to publishers, Ulysses' export functions are more straigthtfoward than Scrivener's.

 

[NonSoft]

That's the big difference.

Yeah, it's interesting that I hadn't really broken down why I preferred one over the other, I just knew that I liked the feel of it, and the rhythm of using it. It's only in breaking down the components that I start to see exactly what it is that I prefer.
It's also more apparent what it is that people like in the alternatives.

 

[Traverse]

@NonSoft

I am asking because I feel it is relevant to the OP and other writers. How stable has Ulysses been for you with large chunks of text? There is a MAS review (which I take with a grain of salt) that says the developers haven't designed Ulysses to function with large amounts of text (40,000 words)? That seems sketchy to me.


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I am trying Ulysses again and really giving it a shot. There are some UI decision that I really like. I'm starting to get the hang of markdown and I customized the style export. The real question is though, if I don't export my work, do I want to view markdown all the time or WYSIWYG.

 

[NonSoft]

@NonSoft

I am asking because I feel it is relevant to the OP and other writers. How stable has Ulysses been for you with large chunks of text? There is a MAS review (which I take with a grain of salt) that says the developers haven't designed Ulysses to function with large amounts of text (40,000 words)? That seems sketchy to me.


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I am trying Ulysses again and really giving it a shot. There are some UI decision that I really like. I'm starting to get the hang of markdown and I customized the style export. The real question is though, if I don't export my work, do I want to view markdown all the time or WYSIWYG.

I've not encountered any performance/stability issues with Ulysses from the time that I started with 0 words to well over 100k. I haven't moved all my previous writing to Ulysses but I suspect that I could without issue.

I don't doubt that the reviewer has issues but it seems unlikely it is due to word count (at least with only 40k words).

It is an interesting question about what you prefer to see: markdown or wysiwyg.
I think for me there are two things that make me lean towards markdown.
1. I'm easily distracted and when I'm writing I find I am more productive if I just focus on writing.
2. I have a background in software development so I am very accustomed to looking at screens filled with plan text.

Perhaps if I had more discipline the choice wouldn't be so clear.

 

[Traverse]

I think for me there are two things that make me lean towards markdown.
1. I'm easily distracted and when I'm writing I find I am more productive if I just focus on writing.

This is one of the main reasons I keep trying Ulysses, it's simolier interface seems much more inviting to just put in your writing than Scrivener, but L&L say a Yosemite redesign is coming with their iOS release so I may hold off.

There are just some features I like that Ulysses doesn't have, but I'm seeing how well I can manage without them.

 

[NonSoft]

This is one of the main reasons I keep trying Ulysses, it's simolier interface seems much more inviting to just put in your writing than Scrivener, but L&L say a Yosemite redesign is coming with their iOS release so I may hold off.

There are just some features I like that Ulysses doesn't have, but I'm seeing how well I can manage without them.

Yes, I'll definitely be interested to see L&L's redesign. I hope that in addition to updating the various UI elements to be more modern they also find a way to streamline the application. I'm not sure how to do so with as much functionality as Scrivener has but it would be nice if it felt a bit more contextual (ie. Show me what I need when I need it, otherwise don't bother me with it).

I'm also curious to see their iOS integration.

 

[Hook85]

Scrivener doesn't seem to work on El Capitan. It crashes constantly when opening, and then refuses to reopen. It's somewhat annoying.

 

[Rusty33]

Scrivener doesn't seem to work on El Capitan. It crashes constantly when opening, and then refuses to reopen. It's somewhat annoying.

Great to know - thanks for the update!

 

[Hook85]

Great to know - thanks for the update!

It worked in the first few betas, but is broken now. I'm hoping that either whatever broke it in the beta is fixed by Apple in the next update or that scrivener can push an update out when it's final.

I'm currently using iAWriterPro in Scriveners place.

 

[NonSoft]

Scrivener doesn't seem to work on El Capitan. It crashes constantly when opening, and then refuses to reopen. It's somewhat annoying.

I've not used Scrivener extensively for quite some time, but in terms of basic opening files, navigating and such I'm not experiencing any problems with the latest beta.