Roku CEO Calls Apple TV a 'Money Loser', Says Product is 'Essentially' an Accessory for iPad

[laurim]

I think someone needs to learn the difference between a "law" and what is "right" before they spout off about what is "right" as opposed to what is merely "legal". Germany had laws to turn in your Jewish neighbor. Good people ignore morally wrong laws and know the difference between what is moral, ethical and right and what is merely "law". Law is a word for someone trying to push their will onto someone else. Morality is treating others as you would be treated yourself. The latter is godly. The former can be good, evil or just a load of BS. "Lawful" people obey laws without question, whether good, neutral or evil. "Neutral Good" people only obey laws that make sense and ignore evil laws entirely. Evil people only look after their own personal desires, usually so long as they think they can get away with it, save "lawful evil" which try to manipulate the system to make their evil "lawful". The emperor in the Star Wars series of movies was "Lawful Evil". He worked within the system to ultimately legally bend the law to his will. This is why the "good" guys are the REBELS in the series because the law was EVIL. And yet THEY were the "dark side" in the series, not the rebels.

oy, this isn't the "pirates are the crusaders for everyone's freedom from the big, bad Hollywood moneymakers" argument is it? Clue: most of us don't think pirating is honorable, no matter how you try to justify it for yourself. Similar arguments are made by welfare cheats, tax dodgers, shoplifters and insurance frauds. All the same. All wrong.

 

[HKZ/MST3K]

You describe the reason I bought an ATV. I was watching Netflix on my XBox 360 but was tired of paying for the XBox LIVE Gold subscription. Didn't do much online gaming, especially when it was such a bad experience for Left4Dead 2 so Netflix was all I was buying it for. I looked at all the devices, including the Roku, and decided with all my other Apple products it could work with and my BluRay player that could get the channels the ATV didn't, the Roku didn't make sense for me. Pay $99 once vs a yearly subscription for a device with a better UI and more features that work with all my Macs. An easy decision.

You are me, but just the opposite. Even with being mainly Apple centered, besides my gaming PC, the aTV did nothing I wanted because I refuse to purchase from iTunes because they don't work with anything outside their family very well, almost all of my media is in formats the aTV doesn't support (ripped Blu-Rays being number one) and media doesn't work well outside their devices very well either. I don't want to import and convert all my media to a format iTunes can understand, and iTunes is a horrible media handler. It doesn't like very many formats, it handles metadata very poorly, my library has ruined itself multiples times in the last year and Plex handles video and audio much easier without having to futz with the actual file past naming them in sequential order. The Roku performs vastly superior to the aTV in every single way than the aTV for me, it has more features and options for media consumption that aren't a hassle if Apple doesn't like them and iTunes is the worst media manager I've ever used by a very long way.

I use iTunes as least often as I can, especially after they've continued to dumb it down and take control away from the end user. I literally came within a single key press of wiping my Macbook and reinstalling Lion after I realized that Mountain Lion having iBooks built in ruined my 200+ ebook library in one single stroke. I was PISSED when I found out that it ruined all of my metadata with absolutely no way to reverse it or fix the fact that it ruined every single book and tossed it onto my SSD. I can't describe the rage I felt when it did that, luckily I keep multiple backups of my media and was able to do a hack to remove native iBooks and restore it all back like it was before I upgraded to ML. And that's on a Mac, on my PC it's even worse for the very few things I keep on there. I respect that people feel perfectly fine being locked into iTunes and Apple because they are comfortable with having very little to no control over their content, and the devices work well if you stay within those boundaries, but combine a Roku 3 with Plex and iTunes and the aTV do literally nothing better than the Roku and are demonstrably worse for someone that doesn't buy everything from iTunes. Amazonmp3, Amazon ebooks, Plex and ripping are a far better solution for me because I actually care about being able to use the content I purchase wherever I want, whenever I want without Apple removing feature after feature and more and more control over it with each OS X and iTunes update.

The Xbox is a complete ripoff if you actually care about your money, and if you don't want to deal with iTunes being a horrible media manager if you have media not purchased there then the Roku is a far superior piece of hardware. I can only conclude that people here are making snide remarks about this CEO and the Roku as a platform only because they've never stepped outside being locked into iTunes and that marketplace. The insults and ridiculous opinions are unwarranted and childish to be honest.

 

[jamesjingyi]

He's just jelly that Apple's 'hobby' is his main company, and that its a massive threat as many review companies say that both devices are equal in their pros and cons..

 

[laurim]

You are me, but just the opposite. Even with being mainly Apple centered, besides my gaming PC, the aTV did nothing I wanted because I refuse to purchase from iTunes because they don't work with anything outside their family very well, almost all of my media is in formats the aTV doesn't support (ripped Blu-Rays being number one) and media doesn't work well outside their devices very well either. I don't want to import and convert all my media to a format iTunes can understand, and iTunes is a horrible media handler. It doesn't like very many formats, it handles metadata very poorly, my library has ruined itself multiples times in the last year and Plex handles video and audio much easier without having to futz with the actual file past naming them in sequential order. The Roku performs vastly superior to the aTV in every single way than the aTV for me, it has more features and options for media consumption that aren't a hassle if Apple doesn't like them and iTunes is the worst media manager I've ever used by a very long way.

I use iTunes as least often as I can, especially after they've continued to dumb it down and take control away from the end user. I literally came within a single key press of wiping my Macbook and reinstalling Lion after I realized that Mountain Lion having iBooks built in ruined my 200+ ebook library in one single stroke. I was PISSED when I found out that it ruined all of my metadata with absolutely no way to reverse it or fix the fact that it ruined every single book and tossed it onto my SSD. I can't describe the rage I felt when it did that, luckily I keep multiple backups of my media and was able to do a hack to remove native iBooks and restore it all back like it was before I upgraded to ML. And that's on a Mac, on my PC it's even worse for the very few things I keep on there. I respect that people feel perfectly fine being locked into iTunes and Apple because they are comfortable with having very little to no control over their content, and the devices work well if you stay within those boundaries, but combine a Roku 3 with Plex and iTunes and the aTV do literally nothing better than the Roku and are demonstrably worse for someone that doesn't buy everything from iTunes. Amazonmp3, Amazon ebooks, Plex and ripping are a far better solution for me because I actually care about being able to use the content I purchase wherever I want, whenever I want without Apple removing feature after feature and more and more control over it with each OS X and iTunes update.

The Xbox is a complete ripoff if you actually care about your money, and if you don't want to deal with iTunes being a horrible media manager if you have media not purchased there then the Roku is a far superior piece of hardware. I can only conclude that people here are making snide remarks about this CEO and the Roku as a platform only because they've never stepped outside being locked into iTunes and that marketplace. The insults and ridiculous opinions are unwarranted and childish to be honest.

I think it just boils down to, as usual, that different people like different things and nobody should fault them for it. The only time I have a problem is when people on the "other side" make false claims about the products I use because they really don't know what they are talking about or claim I use them because I'm an idiot influenced solely by hype. I simply feel compelled to correct them and that usually gets me called a "fanboy", which is doubly insulting since I'm a woman. Ideally, having competing products leads to innovations and even better products. Companies that only copy the leader aren't doing the tech world any favors. That's goes for EVERYONE who just does "me, too" without improving on it.

 

[HKZ/MST3K]

I simply feel compelled to correct them and that usually gets me called a "fanboy", which is doubly insulting since I'm a woman.

I guess my "you are me but just the opposite" statement was more true than I realized. I enjoy what I have, and I make decisions on what's best for my use case. I don't hate the aTV or Apple, I use a lot of their products, but the fanaticism and tribalism around here is "normal" I guess, but it's seriously childish. If you don't like something, great, but don't attack it because your "team" fits your ideals better than the competition. I don't understand why so much vitriol comes from both sides. Just enjoy what you have and be happy other people enjoy theirs! I really don't understand this place a lot of the time, I have the same opinion you do. Just be happy that you're happy and let the other side be happy too.

 

[Menneisyys2]

You guys go out of your way to tell us how you PURCHASE your media. As if that somehow makes things right. You are not allowed to RIP media off of a Blu-Ray whether you own it or not and whether you believe it is morally correct or not.

1. what you stated only applies to the US and not to us non-US folks.

2. Talk to your (US) lawmakers. Almost everywhere else ripping discs you legally own for your own purchases is totally legal: all European countries, Australia etc. That is, a lot more people are allowed to do it than forbidden.

More info & list of these countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping#Legality

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The Xbox is a complete ripoff if you actually care about your money, and if you don't want to deal with iTunes being a horrible media manager if you have media not purchased there then the Roku is a far superior piece of hardware. I can only conclude that people here are making snide remarks about this CEO and the Roku as a platform only because they've never stepped outside being locked into iTunes and that marketplace. The insults and ridiculous opinions are unwarranted and childish to be honest.

What do you really expect from blind Apple fanboys?

----------

oy, this isn't the "pirates are the crusaders for everyone's freedom from the big, bad Hollywood moneymakers" argument is it? Clue: most of us don't think pirating is honorable, no matter how you try to justify it for yourself. Similar arguments are made by welfare cheats, tax dodgers, shoplifters and insurance frauds. All the same. All wrong.

Again: see above. Ripping your own discs for your own (electronic / mobile) playback is fully legal in all EU countries, Australia etc. A little bit more people than the U.S., to put it mildly...

 

[selfdisplaced]

I've used both and the Roku is way better than the Apple TV...sorry folks.

It's not what you want to hear. But until Apple opens up the Apple TV it's fairly horrible and just doesn't compare to the ability the Roku's have with their channels.

 

[oddnendz]

I use Apple TV for iTunes and Airplay. I use my Roku for everything else... Netflix, Amazon Video, Time Warner app and Spotify. And occasionally I would use Chromecast. *shrugs* It works.

 

[Frankied22]

I have had an Apple TV (3rd Gen), a Roku 3, and a Chromecast all at the same time.

Apple TV - Great if you are invested in the Apple ecosystem. That is obvious. I fell for buying a few movies through iTunes but I don't do it anymore. I prefer blu-ray if I am going to own a movie. I can rent a film cheaper from other places too. If you like to AirPlay a lot or use your TV as a second monitor (you need newer laptops) then again the Apple TV is great. As for streaming services, it's no better than a Roku or a Chromecast.

Roku 3 - This little box is the ultimate device when it comes to streaming selection. You get it all. Netflix, Amazon, HBOGO, Hulu Plus, Plex (a big one), Crackle, Vudu, PBS, History, Flixster, Blockbuster on Demand, AE, Redbox, Fox Now, EPIX, Rdio, Spotify, and a whole bunch more. As someone who sometimes gets his movies from "other sources" and uses Plex as a media server, the Roku is great. Also, it is awesome to be able to plug headphones into the remote and watch something without bothering others in the house. There are some downsides though, such as a poor UI. Apart from the universal search (which is brilliant) I find the UI to be lacking, especially for Netflix and Hulu Plus. That's not to say its slow. It's fast and in some cases its faster than the Apple TV. I just personally think its ugly. Another downer, there is no YouTube app and I am not sure if you can cast YouTube to the Roku yet. You can cast local photos and movies to it though which is nice. Also, you can stream content off of an external hard drive attached to it.

Chromecast - This is the only device I use nowadays, and I am sure most of you on here will call me crazy for doing so and disregard my opinion on all of this. For $35, the CC is a great little device and does everything I need it to. Personally, I think just using your phone or tablet to serve up media is the future. Why should we waste time making big clunky UI's for the TV and browse through them with a remote, when we already have nice UI's right on our phones and tablets. It's so simple. I love just taking out my phone, opening Netflix, and casting a movie or episode to my TV in a second. I use Google Music, Netflix, Hulu Plus, HBO GO, Plex, and YouTube with my CC all the time. Watching YouTube is great with the CC. It plays at a higher quality than just AirPlaying a youtube video to an Apple TV, and you can queue up other media. What I really love about the CC is that IT streams the media, unlike AirPlay. I can watch something else on my device without the CC cutting out or I could shut my device down completely, and the CC will keep streaming. Because it's as simple as adding the API into your app it makes it incredibly easy for apps to add the functionality. Every week we see more and more apps adding Chromecast support. Then there is the whole other feature where you can cast a chrome tab to your TV, or your whole desktop (BETA). It's also great that it plugs right into your TV and it's not another box laying around. Love me or hate me, but I think the CC is the best device for my TV needs right now. There is one thing I will say about it though and that is I wish it had a physical remote. As an iOS user, I don't get the nice notification of what is playing with controls like on Android. I have to open the app that is casting, which can be buggy sometimes. It would be nice to just have a physical remote to quickly pause or play something.

The only thing I would be looking forward to in a new Apple TV is an app store, so that anyone could add their apps to the device. I want a Plex app and an Amazon Instant app. However, seeing as how Amazon is set to release a set top box this week I doubt that is going to happen.

 

[HKZ/MST3K]

Another downer, there is no YouTube app and I am not sure if you can cast YouTube to the Roku yet.

There is a YouTube channel, it's official and it's been since before Christmas last year. It works flawlessly as well.

http://blog.roku.com/blog/2013/12/17/introducing-youtube-on-roku-3/

 

[Frankied22]

There is a YouTube channel, it's official and it's been since before Christmas last year. It works flawlessly as well.



http://blog.roku.com/blog/2013/12/17/introducing-youtube-on-roku-3/

Ah ok that is good to know. I sold my Roku a little bit before Christmas. Disregard my YouTube comment then!

 

[HKZ/MST3K]

Ah ok that is good to know. I sold my Roku a little bit before Christmas. Disregard my YouTube comment then!

No problem, just getting the word out in case people didn't know about it. It's surprisingly not terrible given how awful their homegrown apps are on every platform. The official iOS app is awful compared to apps like ProTube and I had pretty low expectations for the Roku app. It has some flaws but it performs admirably and it's nice to have an official app where there used to be kludgy ones to make do while they decided to release one or not. Now if they could just get Twitch to write an official app then spectating online gaming streams would be money. The custom written unofficial app is pretty bang on, but I imagine an official Twitch app would perform a bit better.

 

[RobertMartens]

oy, this isn't the "pirates are the crusaders for everyone's freedom from the big, bad Hollywood moneymakers" argument is it? Clue: most of us don't think pirating is honorable, no matter how you try to justify it for yourself. Similar arguments are made by welfare cheats, tax dodgers, shoplifters and insurance frauds. All the same. All wrong.

I think it is the 'do the right thing' argument. BTW I love how you slipped in the 'Oy' at the beginning. Using Yiddish to rebut a Holocaust argument. Classic.

 

[laurim]

I think it is the 'do the right thing' argument. BTW I love how you slipped in the 'Oy' at the beginning. Using Yiddish to rebut a Holocaust argument. Classic.

That wasn't intentional. Maybe subconscious… although trying to make pirating sound as noble as fighting the nazis is pretty outrageous.

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1. what you stated only applies to the US and not to us non-US folks.

2. Talk to your (US) lawmakers. Almost everywhere else ripping discs you legally own for your own purchases is totally legal: all European countries, Australia etc. That is, a lot more people are allowed to do it than forbidden.

More info & list of these countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping#Legality

----------



What do you really expect from blind Apple fanboys?

----------



Again: see above. Ripping your own discs for your own (electronic / mobile) playback is fully legal in all EU countries, Australia etc. A little bit more people than the U.S., to put it mildly...

I actually don't have a problem with people who rip discs they own legally for their own enjoyment just to make them more convenient for them to watch. It's the people scamming to get something for nothing and enabling other people to get something for nothing I have problems with.

 

[laurim]

I guess my "you are me but just the opposite" statement was more true than I realized. I enjoy what I have, and I make decisions on what's best for my use case. I don't hate the aTV or Apple, I use a lot of their products, but the fanaticism and tribalism around here is "normal" I guess, but it's seriously childish. If you don't like something, great, but don't attack it because your "team" fits your ideals better than the competition. I don't understand why so much vitriol comes from both sides. Just enjoy what you have and be happy other people enjoy theirs! I really don't understand this place a lot of the time, I have the same opinion you do. Just be happy that you're happy and let the other side be happy too.

Maybe it's because Apple people are constantly being taunted for liking Apple products and we don't know why and the taunting usually involves people who have never used Apple products giving out wrong information. After all, you're on a MAC-centric website for people who want to read about possible new Apple products coming soon so you have to expect the regular audience to be pretty hard core. It's not like you're on CNET or some other general tech site. I assume there are similar websites for competing products and I bet if I went on a Samsung rumor website and started spouting off about how much better iPhones are, a group of regulars would quickly give me a verbal beat down.

 

[bmacir]

I have only two words for you mr. Anthony Wood:

Plex. Connect.

 

[Dontazemebro]

Ahh yes I see your point. 3rd party services should be accessible offline if you've already subscribed to their services. I thought that you could sign in as a guest and login with your netflix account like that, but I might be wrong.

 

[Nord]

An accessory for iPad ?

I use it every Sunday to stream movies from my iMac with Ariplay from my room to the living room to do a weekly theater-like experience for my friends; it's connected to a beamer.

 

[Ihatefall]

I would never buy any streaming device. When I pay for something, I want something tangible in return which is not heavily reliant on the Internet and my download quota. I prefer a physical copy instead of DRM and region restrictions, which I refuse to accept and will not support. I control and decide where to play, no one else. I pay I play my way. Plus I prefer Blu-Ray, but not downloading 40GB per movie. Hell even the iTunes movies are not BD quality either, so why would I use their service?

I can buy a BD movie, make my own backup copy with no region restrictions, no DRM, play where and when I want, no downloads required, and have the original disc for a backup and BD quality as well. So why would I use the Internet route when Im paying more for less and I have to obtain it myself?

I used to agree with this 100% but in the last 8 years I have moved 6 times, 3 of which were from America to Asia to America and back to Asia. I got sick of storing/ packing / shopping everytime. It's so much easier to grab two small devices that have all my media and books. I was on a business trip last month, I wanted to watch a movie, I was able to just download it to the ipad and watch it in my hotel room. My house feels much less cluttered now. (I used to own hundreds of DVDs and CDs.)
For me the first step, was the iPod, I needed to bring all my music with me the first time I moved to Asia, that got me used to not owning the physical media.

On a side note, the Roku is a fine device and airplay aside, it is currently more capable than the ATV because it plays games. Another cool feature is the remote having a headphone jack. My friend bought one just for that, that way he can watch movies while his wife sleeps.

Personally I think this CEO sounds foolish because I really the roku and ATV are currently two different customers. Until the ATV supports games.

 

[ScoobyMcDoo]

Roku has been showing some signs that they are planning to IPO soon - such as they turned down the last round of funding. My guess is these comments are meant to be heard by investors - not so much consumers.

Even though they do have a find product, I find the company to be a one-trick-pony with little IP to protect it when it is now swimming in an ocean with giants such as Apple, Google & Amazon.

 

[9876544]

What is Roku? Never heard of them...

 

[phillytim]

Roku is a non-starter & has no room to call the Apple TV anything until Roku integrates AirPlay functionality.

Period.

 

[samcraig]

Roku is a non-starter & has no room to call the Apple TV anything until Roku integrates AirPlay functionality.

Period.

So they don't exist to you unless Apple allows them to use a proprietary API that they most likely will never allow them to use?

Got it.

 

[phillytim]

So they don't exist to you unless Apple allows them to use a proprietary API that they most likely will never allow them to use?

Got it.

My comment is based upon the essential fact that Roku short-sightedly called Apple TV nothing more than an iPad accessory. [Which, we all know is a demeaning statement, because Apple TV works with iPhone & Mac streaming, in addition to some of the major 3rd party channels.]

In that context, Roku cannot implicitly imply that it is superior to the Apple TV until it offers all comparable/exceeding functionality.

Sure, Roku is better in the sense that it has so many available channels, I have one; but the context is that Roku cannot as it did devalue the Apple TV without covering its core functional areas, a major component being AirPlay.

Context, Context, Context, my friend.

 

[samcraig]

My comment is based upon the essential fact that Roku short-sightedly called Apple TV nothing more than an iPad accessory. [Which, we all know is a demeaning statement, because Apple TV works with iPhone & Mac streaming, in addition to some of the major 3rd party channels.]

In that context, Roku cannot implicitly imply that it is superior to the Apple TV until it offers all comparable/exceeding functionality.

Sure, Roku is better in the sense that it has so many available channels, I have one; but the context is that Roku cannot as it did devalue the Apple TV without covering its core functional areas, a major component being AirPlay.

Context, Context, Context, my friend.

You can stream to a roku receive in many different ways with many different apps.

So what exactly do you mean now?