Samsung Reportedly Drops Out of Apple's A8 Chip Production Over Low Yields

[Haserath]

Samsung: We want $X per chip
TSMC: We want $X-2 per chip

Apple: Samsung's yields are sooooo much worse.

 

[samcraig]

Apple would deserve criticism for going with a supplier that produce more faulty chips per die, that happens to be Samsung in this case, according to the article.

I'll have to agree with this too.

Well that really depends on how great the QC program is at a company. Just because they have a low yield doesn't mean bad chips are leaving the plant. In fact - it might be proof of the exact opposite. Samsung, on the other hand would likely be foolish if they aren't able to profitably create enough chips easily. It seems as this is not the case - so I would be surprised if the conversation wasn't two-way with Apple and Samsung deciding that their partnership on this chip needed to change.

So again - the real issue (which will trickle down to the consumer) is whether or not TSMC's QC is rigorous if they are the only supplier.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
This thread is not about Android, please stay on topic.

 

[bobob]

For some reason I think that Samesung will be able to meet demands for themselves at the 20nm process.

I'm guessing you're not a businessman.

 

[BaldiMac]

Dude - You really want to get into this ?

Here is Windows Mobile 5 , released in 2005 and in development since 2003

Image

Dude- You really can't remember that you originally said Windows Phone 6.5 and then followed it up with Windows Phone 6? Those were horrible examples in support of your point because they came after the iPhone. Now you've shifted the goalposts a second time and finally came up with something that did proceed the iPhone. Congrats!

Not as slick as Apple's iPhone , but clearly the inspiration.

Clearly? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

There was no such thing as a smartphone before this platform and Apple borrowed HEAVILY from their research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone#Early_years

Not like you could make a new mobile os in a week. It was in development for years

I never even implied that you could.

 

[alexgowers]

I'm sure I read before that samsung deals with some designing elements of the A series chip and the foundry part is only the fabrication stage.

I assume TSMC had very low production last year on the A7 because they were upgrading their fab to be 20nm ready ahead of others with finical help from apple.

It's great to hear that samsung isn't the best at making things anymore, they kind of rely on doing everything cheaper and better but I don't know if anyone no matter how good could keep up worldwide domination like samsung has.

Hopefully there will be more fab choices. I still can't believe intel doesn't open up their foundries too? anyone

 

[alent1234]

Dude- You really can't remember that you originally said Windows Phone 6.5 and then followed it up with Windows Phone 6? Those were horrible examples in support of your point because they came after the iPhone. Now you've shifted the goalposts a second time and finally came up with something that did proceed the iPhone. Congrats!



Clearly? I don't think that word means what you think it means.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone#Early_years



I never even implied that you could.

just because you demo something a few months after another product is demo'd, doesn't mean you copied it.

 

[BaldiMac]

just because you demo something a few months after another product is demo'd, doesn't mean you copied it.

I never said or even thought that they copied it.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Don't even try to seem unbiased.
You ALWAYS criticize Apple .... Almost in every single post.

And you always seem to defend them, but I guess bias doesn't apply in that case, does it?

 

[apolloa]

I have to laugh at all the deluded comments on here. Just remember, if Apple only had one supplier for it's chips, chances are YOU won't be able to buy the latest greatest iPhone due to supply not capable of meeting demand. Read the article too, as predicted they will use BOTH suppliers in the future because Apple damn well knows it would struggle with one supplier, and then it'll loose market share as customers get bored of waiting and turn to the competition.

And I bet so many hater forget that Samsung chips are in the iOS devices they own

And a word to the wise, I was chatting to a Genius Bar chap the other week who advised me 'Apple devices are only as good as the components from it's suppliers'..... and that was in relation to my Nvidia chip that was faulty. just think how many quality control issues Apple has had over the last few years, because their have been a LOT.
But Samsung supplied components haven't been one of them..

 

[AppleScruff1]

I have to laugh at all the deluded comments on here. Just remember, if Apple only had one supplier for it's chips, chances are YOU won't be able to buy the latest greatest iPhone due to supply not capable of meeting demand. Read the article too, as predicted they will use BOTH suppliers in the future because Apple damn well knows it would struggle with one supplier, and then it'll loose market share as customers get bored of waiting and turn to the competition.

And I bet so many hater forget that Samsung chips are in the iOS devices they own

And a word to the wise, I was chatting to a Genius Bar chap the other week who advised me 'Apple devices are only as good as the components from it's suppliers'..... and that was in relation to my Nvidia chip that was faulty. just think how many quality control issues Apple has had over the last few years, because their have been a LOT.
But Samsung supplied components haven't been one of them..

It seems to be selective memory for some. Apple has had quality control issues for the last couple of years. Samsung has been an excellent supplier for the industry, especially Apple, but stating that here gets you accused of being a troll, hater, etc.

 

[cwt1nospam]

Serious question. How does Samsung know what Apple is going to make? Are you implying that Apple, when sending over component requests, also include a file with their product roadmap? Or is Samsung able to figure out Apple's product information based on the specs of the components?

Yes. Components — especially processors — are roadmaps.

 

[samcraig]

Yes. Components — especially processors — are roadmaps.

Please explain further.

If I tell you I need milk eggs and sugar - am I making a cake? What will it look like? Or maybe I'm making cookies? Or perhaps I'm making a pie. What other ingredients am I using? How will the pie taste? What design am I using for the lattice. What shape are the cookies? How many layers is the cake and what frosting is on it.

 

[Max(IT)]

And you always seem to defend them, but I guess bias doesn't apply in that case, does it?

I'm not always happy with Apple choices but yes, basically I'm a strong Apple supporter .... That's the reason why I'm posting here on an Apple based forum.
It's not me the one out of place .... I'm an enthusiastic Apple user that SOMETIMES has something to complain.
Thee are people, like you, that always complain about Apple products, services, decisions .... whatever.
Obviously you claim to be a Goolgle, Apple, Microsoft user, the best way to seem unbiased, but incidentally the only complain is toward Apple.
Oh, you are not alone, I could name other 4-5 well known very active users with the same profile.
What puzzle me is that this happen only on Apple forums like this.
I signed up in very popular Google and Microsoft based forums and I can't find people keep posting against the main subject.

----------

It seems to be selective memory for some. Apple has had quality control issues for the last couple of years. Samsung has been an excellent supplier for the industry, especially Apple, but stating that here gets you accused of being a troll, hater, etc.

I'm an Apple user since 1989 and EVERY YEAR there was someone saying "Apple has had QC issues for the last couple of years" ....

That's simply not true.
Every product of every manufacturer in the "consumer" area has flaws/defects on some extent. Apple is amongst the best (if not THE best sometimes) regarding customer satisfaction ....

 

[FirstNTenderbit]

Yes. Components — especially processors — are roadmaps.

Help me understand how a component is a road map to a product. Samsung already manufactures Apple's processors. How do you make a leap from processors to knowing products. There is no correlation. But if you know something I don't, by all means, enlighten me.

 

[lkrupp]

TSMC has horrible quality control?!?! TSMC's customers and even competitors disagree with that statement.

The Samsung sycophants on this site are strong in their FUD my young Padawan!

 

[iBug2]

And you always seem to defend them, but I guess bias doesn't apply in that case, does it?

He never said he was unbiased.

 

[chrmjenkins]

The Samsung sycophants on this site are strong in their FUD my young Padawan!

The end user doesn't really see foundry QC anyway. The die go through extensive testing at the foundry and then again when assembled to make sure they meet all performance specs.

TSMC has had plenty of trouble, but that's reflected directly in the yield of their chips. Defects are almost always immediately known and eliminated. It's also unavoidable. In the foundry world, risk (new process, aggressive design) = lower yield.

 

[subsonix]

Well that really depends on how great the QC program is at a company. Just because they have a low yield doesn't mean bad chips are leaving the plant.

Low yield means higher prices and potentially a problem with keeping up with demand.

Samsung, on the other hand would likely be foolish if they aren't able to profitably create enough chips easily.

It has nothing to do with being foolish, they obviously understand that a high yield is desirable. They like any other foundry deal with physical reality and a new node size. And again, according to the article they are having some problems with yield at 20nm at the moment.

In fact - it might be proof of the exact opposite.

/snip

So again - the real issue (which will trickle down to the consumer) is whether or not TSMC's QC is rigorous if they are the only supplier.

Funny how you go from flat out speculation to establishing it as fact.

 

[samcraig]

Low yield means higher prices and potentially a problem with keeping up with demand.



It has nothing to do with being foolish, they obviously understand that a high yield is desirable. They like any other foundry deal with physical reality and a new node size. And again, according to the article they are having some problems with yield at 20nm currently.




Funny how you go from flat out speculation to establishing it as fact.

Where did I state anything as fact? I'm pretty sure I used the word "might" in there.

 

[Gudi]

Also, you can't say that Apple would have gotten to where they were with out the development of Windows Mobile.

I can say that: „Apple would have gotten to where they are today without the development of Windows Mobile.“

They deserve a lot more credit then they get.

For not developing a successful product? You can give Microsoft credit for developing Windows XP Tablet PC Edition. But it isn't why people use tablets today. Apple might have learned how not to do it.

My point was that everyone borrows and steals ideas from each other.
How do you like the notification center in iOS ? Hmmm ?

I hate it. Its the worst. A new form of Spam.

There wasn't such a thing as a mobile OS. That honor goes to Microsoft a few years later.

But no one cares about mobile OS's in general. It's only with the iPhone its TouchScreen and its AppStore, when things startet to get interesting.

 

[subsonix]

Where did I state anything as fact? I'm pretty sure I used the word "might" in there.

You said, "So again, the real issue is..." and so on, establishing what this is really about (as opposed to the content of the article of course).

 

[derek4484]

Apple sold 221 million iPhones + iPads in 2013. It would be astounding to walk away from 1.3+ billion in revenue. But if that's their strategy, to try and beat Apple, more power to them. That's a heck of a gamble though.

Not all of those devices had the top of the line CPU in them though. That's a major point. I dont have the exact sales numbers of devices with top of the line A7's. I would suspect that Apple sold less than 166.67 million devices with A7 chips. thus bringing it to under $1Billion in the hypothetical scenario.

 

[BaldiMac]

Not all of those devices had the top of the line CPU in them though. That's a major point. I dont have the exact sales numbers of devices with top of the line A7's. I would suspect that Apple sold less than 166.67 million devices with A7 chips. thus bringing it to under $1Billion in the hypothetical scenario.

Except you were talking about the A8 chip which will likely be sold in late 2014 through 2017 or so. It's a pretty safe assumption that sales will increase over the A6 and even A7.

(And the A7 has only been on sale for around 5 months.)

 

[giantfan1224]

Not all of those devices had the top of the line CPU in them though. That's a major point. I dont have the exact sales numbers of devices with top of the line A7's. I would suspect that Apple sold less than 166.67 million devices with A7 chips. thus bringing it to under $1Billion in the hypothetical scenario.

I gave the 2013 data as a reference point. Based on that, it's certainly feasible that Apple will sell at least 221 million devices with the A8 chip, probably even more. No, probably not in one year but over the life of the chip.