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Nunyabinez

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2010
1,758
2,230
Provo, UT
My guess is that something will happen where a police officer uses evidence found on a phone during a traffic stop and then it will go to court to decide if a phone can be searched without a warrant.

Currently, there is a "plain sight" exception to the requirement to obtain a search warrant and I would guess that it will be argued that moving away from your digital ID screen means it was not it plain sight. But this will likely have to be decided in court.

Disclaimer: not a lawyer
 

avanpelt

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
2,956
3,877
Love how when I suggested this a couple months ago a bunch of people jumped on me saying the government wouldn't be open or able to implement it.

Oh, I'm sure governments love the idea. Hand them an unlocked phone and then they have every legal right to access anything else on that phone. I'll wait for Apple's secure solution to digital identification that doesn't involve handing my unlocked phone over to someone I've never seen before.
 

2457282

Suspended
Dec 6, 2012
3,327
3,015
While I like the idea in terms of getting one step closer to not carrying a wallet, there's no way in hell I'd hand my iPhone over to a cop. Not because I have anything illegal on my phone but because I don't like handing my unlocked phone over to anyone I don't know.

If they made the driver's license accessible from the lock screen without needing to unlock the phone (like the health/identification information screen today), that's the only way I'd consider using a digital driver's license. Iowa's implementation involves a standalone app which would almost certainly require that the phone be unlocked in order to access it so it isn't something I'd care to use.

Agreed, my thought was if they integrated it with passbook, then they can see the license without the phone being unlocked. However, the issue of the cop taking back to his car while running the information through the system is still a concern. And as others have said, will the officer accept liability if s/he drops the phone while in their possesion? I hope all of this has been thought through more carefully, but as it reads in this rumor article, I would probably not use the app.
 

MYB

macrumors newbie
May 17, 2011
26
3
Earth
While I like the idea in terms of getting one step closer to not carrying a wallet, there's no way in hell I'd hand my iPhone over to a cop. Not because I have anything illegal on my phone but because I don't like handing my unlocked phone over to anyone I don't know.

If they made the driver's license accessible from the lock screen without needing to unlock the phone (like the health/identification information screen today), that's the only way I'd consider using a digital driver's license. Iowa's implementation involves a standalone app which would almost certainly require that the phone be unlocked in order to access it so it isn't something I'd care to use.

maybe they will have a barcode and scanner like at the grocery store...:rolleyes: We are all just a bag of chips....
 

filmantopia

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2010
859
2,462
Oh, I'm sure governments love the idea. Hand them an unlocked phone and then they have every legal right to access anything else on that phone. I'll wait for Apple's secure solution to digital identification that doesn't involve handing my unlocked phone over to someone I've never seen before.

The second Apple gets their hands on this they'll know to make ONLY the license accessible, the same as your Medical ID.
 

tlevier

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2010
134
2
Littleton, CO
Sure - I like this in theory. As many have pointed out the privacy aspects, I just don't see it working. I won't even get my insurance cards for my vehicles put on my phone for exactly the same reason. You hand over an unlocked phone, you hand over the keys to your life.

Some have stated that having it available on the lock screen is a solution. I'd argue that there's too much information to make it widely available to anyone who finds your phone. So the next step is - Only show Name and then use TouchID or password to unlock the rest of the license without unlocking the phone. That might be a valid compromise, but it demonstrates which finger activates TouchID (not a big deal anyway) or that you actively know your password (In case you wanted to plead later that you forgot your password.)

So - I guess I'd like to see a "Lock Screen Feature" where you swipe Left <- and it brings across "Lock Screen Apps". Maybe only 4-5 items vertically along the right edge that you can customize and place. 1. Driver's License 2. Insurance Card 3.- 5. ??? Each one would launch with phone still locked with minimal information and while open, the entire ID / Information could be made available with your authorization.

woah - wait. Even better. A driver's license QR code that the officer scans and then his Gov't machines retrieves the license on his own equipment.

Of course - the downside of putting a Gov't app on your phone is maybe there's some kind of backdoor built in? Perhaps if you've got a withings scale, they update your bio information dynamically and report it back to their databases? Maybe uses facial recognition to scan photos app and automatically update to the latest best photo of you?

Possibilities are endless and endlessly scary.

----------

My guess is that something will happen where a police officer uses evidence found on a phone during a traffic stop and then it will go to court to decide if a phone can be searched without a warrant.

Currently, there is a "plain sight" exception to the requirement to obtain a search warrant and I would guess that it will be argued that moving away from your digital ID screen means it was not it plain sight. But this will likely have to be decided in court.

Disclaimer: not a lawyer

Until someone texts you about weed (either legitimately or joking, context matters) but that gives the officer who saw that ill-timed notification probable cause to navigate away from the license and see what other incriminating information can be discerned.

I recently switched my settings away from showing preview on messages in the notifications and on lock screen. Makes it a bit more cumbersome to read messages, but I do feel a lot better knowing that only I am looking at these.
 

trtmn

macrumors newbie
May 21, 2014
13
12
I would just open the License app, and enable guided access mode.
"Sorry officer... Must be a problem with my phone"
 

avanpelt

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
2,956
3,877
I can see it now...

Officer goes back to his car with your unlocked phone to verify your information. Officer proceeds to spend 15 seconds verifying your ID with dispatch and then another three minutes scanning your camera roll and AirDropping nude photos of your wife/girlfriend to his personal iOS device.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think AirDrop keeps any user-accessible log of the files that were sent via AirDrop and the name of the device they were sent to, does it?
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,031
7,872
I would just open the License app, and enable guided access mode.
"Sorry officer... Must be a problem with my phone"

But if you use TouchID the officer can ask you to disable guided access mode. You can't be required to give a password, but a court recently ruled that biometric "passwords" aren't subject to the same rules.
 

Nunyabinez

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2010
1,758
2,230
Provo, UT
But if you use TouchID the officer can ask you to disable guided access mode. You can't be required to give a password, but a court recently ruled that biometric "passwords" aren't subject to the same rules.

I think there is still more to it than that. I don't believe that a police office can just take your DNA at a traffic stop or make you give finger prints. You have to be in custody and processed or they have to have a warrant to do those things.

So, even though you can be compelled to unlock your phone with your finger print, if it takes longer than 24 hours your code will kick in. Or you could just power it down before surrendering it making the code necessary again.

I doubt that to date there are any actual examples of anyone being compelled to open their phone with their finger print. Not to say that law enforcement won't figure out how to exploit this loophole.
 

Ivan0310

macrumors member
Mar 1, 2011
97
72
Dallas, TX
Huh. Did not know that. I have my renewal coming up next year and had planned to ask them for two copies actually. Even so, why would have a digital DL preclude a physical copy? Surely Iowa is planning to allow an indiviidual to carry both as it will be a long long time before EVERYWHERE accepts digital.

I hope you're right, but it is certainly an important detail.
 

ArtOfWarfare

macrumors G3
Nov 26, 2007
9,563
6,062
He doesn't pay if you were resisting arrest. And we both know you were.

There's a dashcam video that shows your interaction with the cop and that there's no way your behavior caused him to damage your phone...

----------

You can also get a physical fake ID, what's your point?

This seems substantially easier to obtain than a fake ID. A fake ID requires you to physically obtain it and to physically pay for it. I would imagine the software for faking your digital ID will be distributed for free, online, from a country which doesn't care to aid US law enforcement.
 

Zxxv

macrumors 68040
Nov 13, 2011
3,558
1,104
UK
He does... just like if he were to break some part of your car or anything else in your possession during the traffic stop.

Like that's going to happen.

No you can see it from here officer. You don't need to hold it. You won't pay for it if you drop it.

I won't drop it.

That's not what I said.

Give it here or I'll arrest you for preventing me from doing my duty.

But but you won't..... Oh here

Hmm yes everything seems to be in order. Here's your phone back. Oops a daisy. You dropped it.

No I didn't you did

The end
 

Zxxv

macrumors 68040
Nov 13, 2011
3,558
1,104
UK
There's a dashcam video that shows your interaction with the cop and that there's no way your behavior caused him to damage your phone...

--.


Why did the footage go missing. Oops how did that happen it's so unusual but hey ho.
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,031
7,872
So, even though you can be compelled to unlock your phone with your finger print, if it takes longer than 24 hours your code will kick in. Or you could just power it down before surrendering it making the code necessary again.

I doubt that to date there are any actual examples of anyone being compelled to open their phone with their finger print. Not to say that law enforcement won't figure out how to exploit this loophole.

But if your driver's license is on your phone, you can't just "power it down before surrending it."

I believe there was an actual case of someone being required to "unlock" a device with a fingerprint recently. That person sued claiming it was unlawful search and seizure but the courts disagreed. Here is the link.
 

Nunyabinez

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2010
1,758
2,230
Provo, UT
But if your driver's license is on your phone, you can't just "power it down before surrending it."

I believe there was an actual case of someone being required to "unlock" a device with a fingerprint recently. That person sued claiming it was unlawful search and seizure but the courts disagreed. Here is the link.

Yes, but by the time the court ruled, his finger print would not work as iOS times out a phone if it is not unlocked after 24 hours and requires the code. So, in the case that determined what the law is, the phone was never actually accessed.

I still contend that the courts will rule it illegal to search a phone during a traffic stop (even when used to display a driver's license) without either explicit permission from the owner or a warrant. I guess there is also an exigency exception like they believe you have a text that shows the location of a kidnapped person, but that one will be even harder to argue.
 

SonicSoundVW

macrumors regular
Jul 22, 2014
212
83
Michigan, USA
Im with everybody else on the no go. Unless it requires a pin or password or touch ID to "unlock the phone" to get out of ID view, this is not safe. Reminds me of the people that answer questions willingly when asked at their house and letting Police Officers in their house for no reason. I don't have a problem with Law Enforcement, i have a problem with bad/shady law enforcement. heh
 

spatlese44

macrumors 6502
Dec 13, 2007
461
110
Milwaukee
I won't even get my insurance cards for my vehicles put on my phone for exactly the same reason. You hand over an unlocked phone, you hand over the keys to your life.

I'm all for the scanning idea myself, but seriously, am I the only one on this forum who isn't a drug dealer or pedophile or something? There's nothing incriminating on my phone.

There's also the concern for hacking this thing. Create a developers account, write an app that mimics the state one right down to the icon and install whatever ID you want. Goodbye Dan H---------- hello José Rosquilla!

And for what it's worth, why do we need an ID anyway? Why can't I just tell the cop my SS# or something similar and he can look it up? Are we living in the stone ages or a world with a global internet?
 

TimelessOne

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2014
236
2
in many ways I like this and would be a great addition along with the standard photo one. I often go cycling and my phone is with me but not always my ID as that is easier for me to lose.
 

AppleTools

macrumors member
Dec 12, 2009
76
12
I was going to say, sorry, out of battery... but I think this might have a future.

If you can send your digital license to the officer's device using NFC (similar to Apple Pay) you won't be giving your phone away, you just handle him your license and if the App on the officer's device has some sort of security verification system you can also be sure the officer is not an impostor and you can also see his name and have a record of the date and time of the event.

So, I say it's an idea that has potential.
 
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sailmac

macrumors 6502
Jan 15, 2008
333
86
Currently the Feds are creating a "national" license that can be used across states. If you've renewed in the last 2 years, your license will have a yellow star. Doesn't mean you are special, I already asked. Lol. Just means any state validates your license now.

Really? I renewed my California license in June and there is not a yellow star on it.

Maybe you actually are special! :D
 

nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,060
7,334
While this may be step in the right direction, they are not thinking big. The smart license should generate a QR code or NFC that cops can use to verify the driver. As implemented, at least on the screenshot, it's all too easy to fake.
 
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