Snow Leopard vs Mountain Lion

[cmChimera]

If I don't the computer will not shut down - sticks at the gray screen. And yes, I have booted from my OS X ML flash drive to Repair Disk as well as Repair Permissions. No avail.



I've been using Macs since OS 7 in the early 1990s. Lion and Mountain Lion have been the least stable introductions since the switch to OS X (after its beta release). This is not just one computer, this is three - a 2012 Mac mini, a 2011 MacBook Pro and my 12-core Mac Pro. The Pro spontaneously shuts down on occasion, which never happened with Lion or Snow Leopard, and quite frequently my inbox in Mail disappears, requiring a quit and relaunch of Mail. What's remarkable is that I have the least amount of trouble with ML on my Hackintosh (and my MacBook Air).



It is my personal experience, but considering the hardware I'm running I shouldn't have this much trouble.



Of course not. Be realistic.



Oh, ok.



Of course, it could be hardware related, particularly with the Mini since it is th 2012 model and shipped with ML. Poor engineering could explain it. It's obvious that Apple f#ck'd up the design that's causing all the USB3/bluetooth problems. But that doesn't explain my Mac Pro troubles - there is no new hardware in that computer that wasn't there when it arrived with Snow Leopard installed two years ago. No problems with SL. No problems with Lion. But spontaneous shut downs and jacked-up Mail with ML.



Please, tell me how to fix them. I've been cracking open Macs for 20 years. I've replaced a hard drive in a G4 lampshade iMac, which was the most difficult Mac to work on, even requiring fresh heat sink compound on the cpu during the reassembly. I've even disassembled an Apple TV to put an eSATA port on it. I've replaced hard drives in the G4 MacBook Pros that essentially required a complete disassembly of the unit. I've done quite a bit with Macs and Systems 7, 8 and 9 and all versions of OS X. I have never had as much trouble as I have with Lion and Mountain Lion.

Obviously you fit in to the IT/super genius category. Giving tech support over the internet is not exactly an ideal situation but there are numerous things that could be going wrong, and I don't mean to say that you don't have issues with your mac. But it's an assumption with little basis to say that's an inherent issue with Mountain Lion.

Maybe SNow Leopard was buggy, I cant tell. But the thing is that is not about a feature nor working. Is about not having the feature at all.

Lion does not have Spaces or Exposé, EVER. This thing is not buggy in Lion...is completly misssing from it.

At least they sort of fixed Exposé for Mountain Lion, but still no Spaces. thank god for Totalspaces.

Technically, it does have spaces. You just don't like the new way Spaces works. Expose is also there.

 

[vladster]

Here’s what I see to be a fundamental ‘issue’ – Steve Jobs never believed in focus groups; he believed that people did not know what they want, so he just gave it to them.

I think during his last several years Steve Jobs turned Apple into boutique. And himself became couturie. He stayed with the product from very early stages, taking part in every stage of design, and then presenting the product, convincing people why they need it and why competition sucks. This approach was accepted. And, coincidentally or not, products were not bad. He's made the company very successful, but without him it's just not that company anymore.

Now bunch of guys that are scared to miss timelines more than anything else, sell us something with no DESIGNER behind the product. Designer who wouldn't let the product out until he sees the product as an accomplishment.

 

[MikeAK]

I think during his last several years Steve Jobs turned Apple into boutique. And himself became couturie. He stayed with the product from very early stages, taking part in every stage of design, and then presenting the product, convincing people why they need it and why competition sucks. This approach was accepted. And, coincidentally or not, products were not bad. He's made the company very successful, but without him it's just not that company anymore.

Now bunch of guys that are scared to miss timelines more than anything else, sell us something with no DESIGNER behind the product. Designer who wouldn't let the product out until he sees the product as an accomplishment.

Agreed. Apple is nowhere near the same company without Jobs. I know I don't have the same level of confidence in Apple that I once did. Maps would have never happened if Jobs were around. ML, to me, feels very buggy. That alone is enough to show people that things are different. It wasn't going to be an overnight change or shift but as time continues to go on we are really going to see the changes take shape. I fear for Apple's future unless they can find a person with the same dedication that Job's had who can run the ship.

 

[wiz7dome]

Agreed. Apple is nowhere near the same company without Jobs. I know I don't have the same level of confidence in Apple that I once did. Maps would have never happened if Jobs were around. ML, to me, feels very buggy. That alone is enough to show people that things are different. It wasn't going to be an overnight change or shift but as time continues to go on we are really going to see the changes take shape. I fear for Apple's future unless they can find a person with the same dedication that Job's had who can run the ship.

Agreed. It's been a long time since I've updated "without worry". Gone are the days of updating and seeing, trying or testing new features. Now you update and start a checklist of things that no longer work that used to work just fine.


Maybe that should be Apples new motto: It Used to Work!

Change for change sake is always risky, but the new method of 'addition by random subtraction' isn't a good way to keep people on the Mac platform.

 

[MikeAK]

Agreed. It's been a long time since I've updated "without worry". Gone are the days of updating and seeing, trying or testing new features. Now you update and start a checklist of things that no longer work that used to work just fine.


Maybe that should be Apples new motto: It Used to Work!

Change for change sake is always risky, but the new method of 'addition by random subtraction' isn't a good way to keep people on the Mac platform.

Very much agree... Software makes or breaks your end user experience no matter how well made or solid your hardware is. Apple won't be able to ride the coat tails of Jobs or the Apple brand name for ever. I pray they figure this out fast because a shift in perception has already taken place. Google and M$ have caught up faster then I think many of us even imagined. Agree or disagree, there are valid alternatives now available. There never was until now, imo.

 

[Beeplance]

Past...future...who cares? just install whatever operating system works for you. I drive a 96 Volkswagen GTI. That's a 16 year old car. Drives great and no car payment!! Am I living in the past? Nope. I'm living in the "whatever I want to do with my life" present. My life is my life, nobody else's. Don't listen to all the nay-sayers on this forum; just do whatever makes you roll. You. That's what matters, all that matters.

If everyone's like you, society would be a better place. Kudos!

 

[vladster]

Agreed. Apple is nowhere near the same company without Jobs. I know I don't have the same level of confidence in Apple that I once did. Maps would have never happened if Jobs were around. ML, to me, feels very buggy. That alone is enough to show people that things are different. It wasn't going to be an overnight change or shift but as time continues to go on we are really going to see the changes take shape. I fear for Apple's future unless they can find a person with the same dedication that Job's had who can run the ship.

New mac book pros with retina displays are clearly a distinct product line. "Classic" mbp is as different from retina laptops as Airs are different from mac book pro's. With 99% chance Jobs would've separated them and gave them some distinct sound simple and new name. Mac Cloud or something. This would boost people's perception, and innovation around the company.

Now people have to use several awkward words at tech spec level to clarify which version of mac book they are talking about. This is not simple, not clean. This is not designer's approach. Designer would always want not only create something new, but make it sound new, fresh and distinctive.

Tech spec level? Fine. Next time I need a laptop I'll just compare tech specs and get best bang for the buck, - whether it's Dell, Sony, HP or whatever. At this point I'm probably not willing to pay the premium over designer's product.

 

[Yamcha]

There is no doubt that Snow Leopard is faster then Lion & might even be faster then Mountain Lion.

But I don't think there is a significant difference between 10.6 & 10.8 I would say If the new features matter to you then do the upgrade.

As great as Snow Leopard is, eventually when you have to buy a new Mac, you'll be forced to use the latest software. So I think It's just a question of now or later.

 

[Badagri]

If everyone's like you, society would be a better place. Kudos!

Only nobody is trying to hijack/compromise his car. The year 2030 cars with USB slots/WiFi that can be infected with viruses.

 

[ecoarena]

Apple ain't Apple

Yes, as been pointed out, Apple is not the same company it once was. The final straw for me was bringing out a new IPad within 7 months of the previous encarnation with customers now buying the 'new' iPad without being clear of whether it's version 3 or 4. I have been loyal to Apple for 25 years, but now the company has simply alienated me with marketing ploys and products bordering on approaches used by the darkside. Alienating loyal customers is not what a smart company does. Big...big mistake. Such a shame.

Eco

 

[thetacoman]

I'm going through the process of backing up my laptop and doing the "upgrade" from SL to ML...but this thread is giving me second thoughts... This decision is really killing me!!

 

[Eithanius]

I'm going through the process of backing up my laptop and doing the "upgrade" from SL to ML...but this thread is giving me second thoughts... This decision is really killing me!!

DO NOT UPGRADE...!

If you insist, get a spare partition and upgrade from there and play around with it... Should you detest ML, you can always fallback and have SL untouched...

 

[LeandrodaFL]

I'm going through the process of backing up my laptop and doing the "upgrade" from SL to ML...but this thread is giving me second thoughts... This decision is really killing me!!

WTF? Why you gonna do that? Dont upgrade. The only reason to abondon SL and get ML is doing a hardware upgrade.

 

[Paradoxally]

I'm going through the process of backing up my laptop and doing the "upgrade" from SL to ML...but this thread is giving me second thoughts... This decision is really killing me!!

Don't do it, you'll likely regret it. I'm on ML right now and it's okay, but if I had time to downgrade (I will once mid-semester break comes up) I would.

 

[Mac32]

I'm a bit worried about the annual OS update cycle that Apple is proclaiming now. This gives them less time to fix older bugs, and less time to polish the next OS version. Hopefully they will releases more "Snow Leopard" updates, focusing solely on improved stability and speed/performance.

 

[Paradoxally]

I'm a bit worried about the annual OS update cycle that Apple is proclaiming now. This gives them less time to fix older bugs, and less time to polish the next OS version. Hopefully they will releases more "Snow Leopard" updates, focusing solely on improved stability and speed/performance.

I think this is bad move, it's bad enough that iOS is yearly because ios 6 is full of bugs compared to iOS 5, but on a desktop operating system, it gives very little time for an OS to mature.

 

[LeandrodaFL]

I actually believe they might keep Mountain Lion for 2 years...If you look at it, took 2 years from Leopard to Snow Leopard, then 2 from SL to Lion. Lion was to only one to have only 1 year life, and it was very welcome this way, as Mountain Lion fixed Exposé and many other things...

They might actually dont upgrade yet. I dont even think they have Cats name left, so they might go for OS XI

 

[astrorider]

I'm going through the process of backing up my laptop and doing the "upgrade" from SL to ML...but this thread is giving me second thoughts... This decision is really killing me!!

People have had difficulties with OS upgrades since there have been OS upgrades. Go to any computer help forum around the time of a new OS and you'll always find people who had a problem and now recommend not upgrading...that's what these forums are for!

Just make sure you have your backups, I'd recommend both a Time Machine backup and a clone with something like Carbon Copy Cloner, and pull the trigger. There's plenty to like in Lion/Mountain Lion, but there will always be some who have hiccups or don't like the changes. If you're one of them, you've got your backups so no worries.

 

[sidewinder]

Come on in, the water [Mountain Lion] is fine!

S-

 

[LeandrodaFL]

There's plenty to like in Lion/Mountain Lion, but there will always be some who have hiccups or don't like the changes. If you're one of them, you've got your backups so no worries.

But way pay for a new OS? It wont make the machine faster.

I would take this oportunity to buy a CURRENT Macintosh, with latest hardware....

 

[astrorider]

But way pay for a new OS? It wont make the machine faster.

I would take this oportunity to buy a CURRENT Macintosh, with latest hardware....

New OS's are more than just about making your machine faster...$19.99 is a whole lot cheaper than a new Mac, if you're after features in Lion/ML or compatibility with software that doesn't work with Snow Leopard.

 

[dukebound85]

I just don't want to do the same mistake I did installing Lion and going back to Snow Leopard.

FWIW, I like ML much more than Lion. I used to be a SL advocate to ML had been more than great for me

 

[fattire357]

I'm going through a similar issue right now.

Basically, since going to Lion, then Mountain Lion, my 2010 MBP has been a whole lot more buggy, and I haven't really used any of the new features as I just don't care about them. Snow leopard was awesome for me and I really don't care for Cloud features (to each their own)

Some of the bugs that are annoying: (that I don't recall when I first bought the MBP under snow leopard)

1. Insane battery drain during sleep. I mean, close the lid at 50%, go to sleep, in the morning its now at 14%. Sure, this could also be an incompatible app, but something is wrong here. Assuming its not a primary OS issue, iOS won't let apps rape the sleep mode like this, why can't OSX? I also don't remember this in Snow Leopard so I kinda think its the OS primarily and not secondarily.

2. Finder becomes unresponsive frequently - I think its related to Samba shares, but nontheless, I go through about 1-2 force closes of Finder per day, and at times it'll go into a total unresponsive loop requiring a reboot. Remember those days of rebooting a Windows machine all the time? That's what my Macbook has turned into.

3. Close the lid, then open it quickly - the machine will be totally, 100% unresponsive until you close it for 10+ seconds or hold down the power button for a hard reset. A little annoying, just takes up more of my day.

4. I think that's about it. Maybe a few others.

By the way, if you reply is just going to be, why post? Just do what you want? Please, stop now. There's a reason why Amazon.com has millions of reviews. Because sometimes people want to receive the opinions of others. At the very least maybe somebody will say, hey, I switched to Snow Leopard and none of my bugs were fixed, or they all were. So that's why I'm posting. Please, no flaming. Be a normal human being.

 

[kemo]

I have had installed both Lion and Mountain Lion couple of months ago, both of them was buggy as hell - not responding, sometimes really sluggish etc. I dont expect that kind of behavior from the computer that cost me 2K, I mean it's really different story with SL so why not stay with it? I have been trying all the versions on Late 2011 OCZ Vertex 3 SSD, 8GB RAM, and SL is the winner for a simple reason - IMHO it's the most stable, 99% bug free (nothing's 100% right?) OS from those 3 versions. So I'm staying with SL for now and maybe when the times come right and ML get's 8th version of update Ill upgrade, but I doubt it get so far with updates because of the pace Apple is rolling out the OSes i think ML will stop updating at about 5th version or so.

Well, I'm dont think Apple had learn from the mistakes they made on Lion, that were partially fixed on ML and will release "better" OS than SL was. This year it's gonna be ML with Siri and Maps. That's it. Again, nothing to worry about for upgrade IMHO...

Yeah and one more think I forgot to say - Give us Expose + Spaces back!

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I'm going through the process of backing up my laptop and doing the "upgrade" from SL to ML...but this thread is giving me second thoughts... This decision is really killing me!!

I tell you what, Backup everything and do upgrade. Keep the old backup safe for about a month and I'm almost sure you will revert back to SL before that time. I have been through the process couple of times and may I try it again with 10.8.3... ML is just not "finished" yet IMHO.

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WTF? Why you gonna do that? Dont upgrade. The only reason to abondon SL and get ML is doing a hardware upgrade.

I believe that's right and that's why I bought latest possible HW for SL, which I believe is late 2011 MBP? And until my laptop is going to breathe I hope Apple is gonna make SL like OS (stable, fast, bug free) which all the current SL users willing to accept and get the new HW for it.

 

[ZVH]

Speaking of bugs, try this one:

Type

"File:[slash][slash][slash]"​

In the above, don't use the quotes, and replace [slash] with the actual slash (/) character. Why didn't I type it like that above? It will crash your application. On entering the third slash character your application will either lock up with a spinning beach ball or die completely. To try it out safely, open up TextEdit and type it in and it will die.

I use Mountain Lion as my main system, but I've got a secondary system with SL on it and every time I boot it, I look at it and say to myself "Wow. This looks so much better."

Why the gray scroll bars, why the gray icons in finder windows and mail, and why the change in saving file options. These, IMHO aren't improvements, more like change for the sake of change. What's the next upgrade, Apple? Black and White displays? I'm not interested in having my computer look and act like an iPhone or iPad. ML is also a huge resource hog. I used to get by on 2G of RAM with no problems, but even running basic stuff I had to upgrade to 4G to quit getting page outs and delays. I have problems with APPLE applications like iWeb and iPhoto crashing on me, and NO, I'm not buying newer version (iWeb is dead already anyway). Overall, I'd say this is not an improvement.

Mountain Lion doesn't bug me enough to hate it or move back to SL, but I can surely see why some people don't want to change. Especially if they're using older application or some PPC apps.