Wonder Boy said:
Exactly - our 3G iPods are perfect and do not require any updates, unlike those 4G iPods Apple seems to keep releasing updates for... Ah, I'm glad I'm a 3G owner - the best iPod out there...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Software & Firmware Updates
- Thread starter Mudbug
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Exactly - our 3G iPods are perfect and do not require any updates, unlike those 4G iPods Apple seems to keep releasing updates for... Ah, I'm glad I'm a 3G owner - the best iPod out there...
I don't really mind if we 3G iPod owners don't get any more updates. But if we're not getting any more updates, I'd like the 3G iPod software available by itself (instead of in a huge package of all existing iPod software) because some people are still on dial-up, and it would save Apple bandwidth costs.
theROZ said:
Seconded.
I changed to a 6800 last week and could hear a lot more fan noise. Applied the firmware just now and it is much quieter (both 6800 and G5). It's back to what it was like with the 9600 I had in there before.
I am a 3G owner, and I don't appreciate the people bashing 3G owners because they want an update. "It works the way you bought it" isn't really a valid arguement.
When you buy similar products from other manufacturers, especially at this price point, you tend to get firmware updates and minor feature improvements on a regular basis for at least 2-3 years. Apple however does not take this stance with their products, and tends to ignore past products unless an update is absolutely critical. This is one of my biggest gripes with Apple's customer practices and the key reason why, once my G5 no longer serves its purpose, I will probably be done with Apple products (aside from iTunes). I should not have to spend hundreds of dollars with third parties to make my - already very expensive - desktop live up to its basic promises of functionality. Most Apple diehards are, but that's just not my way. And yes, charging full price for a point release of OSX every year, especially when you immediately drop most support for the previous release, is even crazier than Microsoft's practices.
The 3G iPod is by far the most prevalent peice of Apple hardware in the wild these days. I see half a dozen people carrying them on the bus every day. I've only ever seen one 4G, and a couple of the old mechanical ones. And then there's the minis. It's visibly obvious which generation of iPod took Apple's market penetration through the roof (and like it or not, primarilly due to Windows compatibility).
All these new customers deserve a little appreciation from Apple, especially since they all shelled out $250-500 within the last 18 months (most within the last year). The rediculous placement of the shuffle function is one of my biggest gripes about the iPod (second only to the useless remote, take a tip from Sony folks and learn how to design a remote). No, it doesn't make the iPod useless, but it's downright silly, and if they can fix it easilly in software, which we assume they can since even the older iPods got games added after-market via firmware, then they should do it. It's as simple as that.
Apple is so obsessed with the future (not a bad thing, they make awesome progress in design and technology, or at least copy in a way that actually works) that they leave their past customers in the dust and that isn't going to keep the customer around - especially those switching from manufacturers who have treated them kinder. It's proven to bite me in the arse, and it will others. Business customers switching to Apple are still in for a major shock compared to Dell/HP/IBM/Gateway/MPC.
If you think we're just a bunch of whiners, that's fine. But the important part to Apple is that we are their customers. Bicker all you want folks, that's the only way Apple will ever take the time to look over its shoulder.
When you buy similar products from other manufacturers, especially at this price point, you tend to get firmware updates and minor feature improvements on a regular basis for at least 2-3 years. Apple however does not take this stance with their products, and tends to ignore past products unless an update is absolutely critical. This is one of my biggest gripes with Apple's customer practices and the key reason why, once my G5 no longer serves its purpose, I will probably be done with Apple products (aside from iTunes). I should not have to spend hundreds of dollars with third parties to make my - already very expensive - desktop live up to its basic promises of functionality. Most Apple diehards are, but that's just not my way. And yes, charging full price for a point release of OSX every year, especially when you immediately drop most support for the previous release, is even crazier than Microsoft's practices.
The 3G iPod is by far the most prevalent peice of Apple hardware in the wild these days. I see half a dozen people carrying them on the bus every day. I've only ever seen one 4G, and a couple of the old mechanical ones. And then there's the minis. It's visibly obvious which generation of iPod took Apple's market penetration through the roof (and like it or not, primarilly due to Windows compatibility).
All these new customers deserve a little appreciation from Apple, especially since they all shelled out $250-500 within the last 18 months (most within the last year). The rediculous placement of the shuffle function is one of my biggest gripes about the iPod (second only to the useless remote, take a tip from Sony folks and learn how to design a remote). No, it doesn't make the iPod useless, but it's downright silly, and if they can fix it easilly in software, which we assume they can since even the older iPods got games added after-market via firmware, then they should do it. It's as simple as that.
Apple is so obsessed with the future (not a bad thing, they make awesome progress in design and technology, or at least copy in a way that actually works) that they leave their past customers in the dust and that isn't going to keep the customer around - especially those switching from manufacturers who have treated them kinder. It's proven to bite me in the arse, and it will others. Business customers switching to Apple are still in for a major shock compared to Dell/HP/IBM/Gateway/MPC.
If you think we're just a bunch of whiners, that's fine. But the important part to Apple is that we are their customers. Bicker all you want folks, that's the only way Apple will ever take the time to look over its shoulder.
This probably has to do with the fact that the "after june" G5s (also known as the Rev B's) use the 970FX on the 90nm process, rather than the earlier machines that used the normal 970 at the 130nm process. I think Apple might have been a little conservative with the Rev B's cooling to make sure that the 970FX would not overheat. It might be that they now realized that and changed the fan behavior in order to limit the fan noise.jared_kipe said:
I haven't updated my G5 yet, because the firmware update requires at least 10.3.5 and I'm still running 10.3.4. With all the troubles people had with the 10.3.6 update, I'm a little worried about updating to 10.3.6. now. But I would sure like to have a little less noisy G5 on any other setting than the "reduced" mode.
You make some great points there, devwild. Maybe all of us should let Apple know what we think of their policies.devwild said:
I am surprised to see all the Shuffle bashing.
I have a 4G 20GB and the only feature I ever use is shuffle. The thing is always on shuffle. I have no playlists at all. 3800 song shuffle is awesome. If I am not in mood for a certain song, I skip it.
I have a 4G 20GB and the only feature I ever use is shuffle. The thing is always on shuffle. I have no playlists at all. 3800 song shuffle is awesome. If I am not in mood for a certain song, I skip it.
Any update that makes the computer more reliable is not to be questioned by me, but it would be nice to know what it's doing!
Jaz said:
A follow up.
For some reason from a Start or Restart the 6800 fan runs quiet. However when you sleep and wake the machine it runs loud again. Not effective at all. The G5 fans are better, spiking a lot less under simple load spikes such as loading secure pages in Safari or general app launches.
OT. I have noticed some graphical glitches in Motion with this card. Couple that with the barely improved benchmarks and it's safe to say the drivers need a lot of work by Apple. Don't blame Nvidia, they state that they supply source code to Apple who then write the drivers themselves. The blame for this one lies squarely on Apple.
Is my machine doomed to repeat 1st gen G5 problems?
I just came home from school to my G5's fans running full blast! What the heck!? A business card got stuck to the front grill from the fans' powerful action.
Anyone else experience this after this update?
I just came home from school to my G5's fans running full blast! What the heck!? A business card got stuck to the front grill from the fans' powerful action.
Anyone else experience this after this update?
Detlev_73 said:
I haven't, only had full throttle under heavy rendering loads or hardware tests.
My machine runs all day and sometimes all night when rendering. It was on last night and it was fine, I did the firmware update yesterday morning and ran all day too.
devwild said:
This is an honest question -- what consumer electronic products do you get regular firmware updates on?
I've been trying to think about this, and the only one I get pushed to me is the iPod.
My cell phone has had some updates, purely bug fixes or features that were promised but not delivered, but my provider has not actually released any to me.
My wireless router is the same. I've gotten updates from their site, but it's purely bug fixes not new features.
I've certainly never gotten firmware updates for my stereo, vcr, or dvd player (the dvd player is running a hacked firmware, but that's another matter).
My PS2 has never gotten one. Ditto for my digital camera.
What does get regular updates, to add new features? I can't come up with a single item.
So the issue now is not why Apple doesn't release firmware updates for 3g iPods, but rather, whether we can convince them to do so with enough requests. Commence the requests! (to Apple, not MacRumors). It's probably unlikely, but it's worth a try. Maybe with enough requests, they'll change their minds.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way....
I, too, am a 3G iPod owner ... and sure, I kept hoping maybe I'd get some cool new feature with one of these updaters, and found out I didn't each time. Still, I hardly think this sort of thing justifies a stance of "I'm not buying an Apple product next time around!" ??
On the contrary, firmware updates have always been a bit risky, and the "rule of thumb" you hear from most computer professionals is "Unless the update addresses a problem you're actually experiencing, don't do the flash upgrade."
If a firmware update fails for whatever reason (say, a power outage while it's in the middle of updating), you can easily end up with a useless paperweight.
On the PC/Windows side of computing, firmware updates come annoyingly often, usually because either A) Microsoft is changing around low-level functions in Windows *again* and breaking compatibility with existing products, or B) advances in technology such as larger-sized IDE hard drives force PCs to get newer firmware or else be left behind. A recent Dell laptop I worked on was on the 23rd. revision of its firmware when I checked it!!
Apple products just don't run into this nearly as often, because Apple controls both the hardware and the software on them. They aren't worried about ensuring their box accepts one of 800,000 possible expansion cards out there. They pretty much dictate the hardware's specs AND sell most of the peripherals that will likely ever get used with it. The others either get built to the specs Apple puts forth, or they just don't work (EG. some of these firewire hubs that G5's are frying!).
If you buy a piece of electronics of ANY type, you should do so based on the features offered at the time it's purchased. There are never any guarantees a manufacturer will keep updating/improving the product. Sure, most do for 2 or 3 years - but many don't... or else they do, but never really address specific irritating issues they promised they'd deal with back when you first bought the item.
I, too, am a 3G iPod owner ... and sure, I kept hoping maybe I'd get some cool new feature with one of these updaters, and found out I didn't each time. Still, I hardly think this sort of thing justifies a stance of "I'm not buying an Apple product next time around!" ??
On the contrary, firmware updates have always been a bit risky, and the "rule of thumb" you hear from most computer professionals is "Unless the update addresses a problem you're actually experiencing, don't do the flash upgrade."
If a firmware update fails for whatever reason (say, a power outage while it's in the middle of updating), you can easily end up with a useless paperweight.
On the PC/Windows side of computing, firmware updates come annoyingly often, usually because either A) Microsoft is changing around low-level functions in Windows *again* and breaking compatibility with existing products, or B) advances in technology such as larger-sized IDE hard drives force PCs to get newer firmware or else be left behind. A recent Dell laptop I worked on was on the 23rd. revision of its firmware when I checked it!!
Apple products just don't run into this nearly as often, because Apple controls both the hardware and the software on them. They aren't worried about ensuring their box accepts one of 800,000 possible expansion cards out there. They pretty much dictate the hardware's specs AND sell most of the peripherals that will likely ever get used with it. The others either get built to the specs Apple puts forth, or they just don't work (EG. some of these firewire hubs that G5's are frying!).
If you buy a piece of electronics of ANY type, you should do so based on the features offered at the time it's purchased. There are never any guarantees a manufacturer will keep updating/improving the product. Sure, most do for 2 or 3 years - but many don't... or else they do, but never really address specific irritating issues they promised they'd deal with back when you first bought the item.
devwild said:
kingtj said:
This was in reference to seperate experiences, not in reference to just the iPod, and certainly not in reference to just firmware updates. And I'm not threatenning Apple, I'm just saying I will choose the product that will best suit me, and at the moment, I don't think Apple will be an effective use of my money in the future. Maybe it will be anyways.
Quite frankly, I'm considering selling my iPod now, but it has nothing to do with the product itself, it's just that I carry my PDA (with 1GB memory card and some mp3s) with me all the time, and the iPod is an extra weight/bulk I don't really need, so I tend to choose not to carry it with me. It's a lot of investment for something I don't use a whole lot. My choice would be the same with a Dell DJ, or a Rio, or whatever.
kingtj said:
I am a Windows sysadmin (please, don't shoot), and I have to say that 1) most people, especially Mac users, blow this issue way out of proportion. I use home-brew systems for my PCs, and I rarely have to do firmware updates, unless, as you said above, absolutely needed. Stuff like updating my server to support a 200GB drive (no different from upgrading an old iMac or G3 to support OSX).
Quite frankly, most support techs don't help the world vision of Windows computers because they are morons, and break everything before thinking a problem through. Also, outsourcing sucks.
kingtj said:
Yes, and if and when more third party hardware is available for Macs, the same issues will exist. It's kind of like the virus arguement, the benefit is partly because Microsoft/Intel/AMD is the big boy on the market. And I find it hard to argue that Apple keeping current model video cards from their machines is a good thing. Certainly Macrumors members have done their share of griping about that on these forums.
This issue is also a detriment to Macs. While my gigantic tower of a G5 has nice internal expandibility, and despite being the second generation of the machine, the pickings to actually use the internal slots is very slim. I was saddened to find that there is only one PCI TV card I could use in my G5 (Alchemy TV), and after getting it, found it couldn't hold a candle to the cheaper Hauppage PVR250 I use in my PVR box - Hardware or software wise. (Personal opinion of course, but the MPEG4 recordings are larger and worse quality than the hardware MPEG2 recordings of the PVR250).
So it's a good thing/bad thing. Like most of these arguements, it pretty much comes to a stalemate. Or we'll just argue about it till our faces turn blue.
kingtj said:
I totally agree on purchasing suggestions. And I always do. But Apple touts themselves has having great service and support, however, in my opinion, they don't live up to it by ignoring past products after 6 months when a new product is released. This is *not* typical from the companies I generally choose to buy from, most importantly considering the price point.
Sure there are many companies that don't care about their customers. And they tend to lose them. Apple is a different market and a different following, so the rules are different.
But not for me, I love OSX, but I also think Windows XP does the job nicely, and like playing with linux and BSD, and I buy my hardware carefully, sticking to brands that have given me great products from the start, with good service and support after. At home I will work on any platform that suits my needs, right now that is an OSX G5 and a Windows XP Dell laptop. Tomorrow that could change, maybe to another Windows PC, maybe to a Powerbook (after they offer more than one mouse button
)I'm just voicing my own opinions here, ignore me as you see fit.
*dev stops babbling
Any new killer features since 1G?
Being an owner of a 1G (5 gig) iPod (going on three years now, hard to believe), I find posts like this kinda funny. But my question is: are there any new *features* that the iPod has gotten since 1G that are *serious* (aside maybe from photo showing)? Sure, the capacity has gone up, and now you can get a dock, and there are peripherals mine can't use. But still: these all do exactly what their main purpose is: take playlists from iTunes and play them.
The feature I'm waiting for is a wireless connection to my stereo, either directly from the songs on the iPod, or from iTunes. A remote without a way of scanning through my 25,000 songs isn't really that valuable. Once they add this, then it's digital music dreamland: Airport Express in every room, streaming (hopefully different someday) songs into each room, controlled remotely. Someday this will happen...and then I'll move from my 1G to a new iPod.
devwild said:
Being an owner of a 1G (5 gig) iPod (going on three years now, hard to believe), I find posts like this kinda funny. But my question is: are there any new *features* that the iPod has gotten since 1G that are *serious* (aside maybe from photo showing)? Sure, the capacity has gone up, and now you can get a dock, and there are peripherals mine can't use. But still: these all do exactly what their main purpose is: take playlists from iTunes and play them.
The feature I'm waiting for is a wireless connection to my stereo, either directly from the songs on the iPod, or from iTunes. A remote without a way of scanning through my 25,000 songs isn't really that valuable. Once they add this, then it's digital music dreamland: Airport Express in every room, streaming (hopefully different someday) songs into each room, controlled remotely. Someday this will happen...and then I'll move from my 1G to a new iPod.
Firmware update
I installed it tonight despite some of the bad news posts that I've seen. The update went perfect and the G5 even showed its tongue in and out at the end. Not sure what all the hubbub is about, but it's a green light as far as I'm concerned.
I was thinking that maybe some users with Rev. A (pre June 2004) G5's were installing this thing and its not meant for those machines. Might be where all the trouble is coming from.
I also installed the latest 10.3.6 update and it was just as successful. So just get it done!!
I installed it tonight despite some of the bad news posts that I've seen. The update went perfect and the G5 even showed its tongue in and out at the end. Not sure what all the hubbub is about, but it's a green light as far as I'm concerned.
I was thinking that maybe some users with Rev. A (pre June 2004) G5's were installing this thing and its not meant for those machines. Might be where all the trouble is coming from.
I also installed the latest 10.3.6 update and it was just as successful. So just get it done!!
Hard Drive Firmware update went bad
Today my old G4/400 showed through "Software Update" a hard drive firmware update that would let me know if my hard drive (19 GB) needed the update.
It said it did so I installed... and now my G4 won´t boot. All I get is this white page where I can write in Unix to boot or quit. If I try
to boot I get the starting mac os folder icon toggling between a question mark and a happy Mac back and forth but will never boot. If I quit the Mac shuts down
and If i reboot back to the white page and so on... Any thing I could do before I try to reinstall the whole system from the DVD drive?
I hate this: you plan a working day on your computer something happens and all day is wasted!
Thank you!
Today my old G4/400 showed through "Software Update" a hard drive firmware update that would let me know if my hard drive (19 GB) needed the update. It said it did so I installed... and now my G4 won´t boot. All I get is this white page where I can write in Unix to boot or quit. If I try
to boot I get the starting mac os folder icon toggling between a question mark and a happy Mac back and forth but will never boot. If I quit the Mac shuts down
and If i reboot back to the white page and so on... Any thing I could do before I try to reinstall the whole system from the DVD drive?
I hate this: you plan a working day on your computer something happens and all day is wasted!
Thank you!