Some Bands Say No to iTunes

[rjwill246]

Re: They WILL Change...

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
When at the end of this year itunes hits Windoz and becomes global, the bands opting out now will see how much they're losing.

No kidding. Reading the above- well, I must admit, I skipped a couple of "tracks," it's clear that choice is the key word and these bands simply don't get it! To release a single off a CD nihilates their argument in any case and some of the artists in quesion have certainly done that. Apple clearly has it right. To HAVE to buy albums only, the Music store would lose all the purchasers who only want songs... bad move.

 

[vollspacken]

hey, I couldn't care less...

- first, I almost never listen to mainstream rock music like those artists ANYWAY, so don't give a *peep* about those guys

- second, most music I listen to is released (or re-released) on small jazz and electronc music labels... I think Apple's efforts to get the small labels on board is much more important, because that's were consumers develop a long term relationship to particular artist (yes, I'm also talking about small rock, punk and metal labels)

some of these artists (like those mentioned in the thread) go to major labes once they have reached a certain level of success, and that's fine... but we are talking about the future here, not the past. if metallica don't want to sell their songs through iTunes, so what, there will be other emerging artists and big bands that will or already sell their music through Apple...

Metallica, RHCP, Linkin Park - go to hell!!!

vSpacken

 

[LethalWolfe]

Oh well... their music they can do what they want w/it. I already own all of RHCP's and Metallica's catalog (not all the free trax from their site though yet) and Green Day and LP I never liked. So this doesn't really matter to me at all.

It's interesting to note though, at least IMO, that all these bands are managed by Q-Prime. I wonder if Q-Prime has something to lose in regards to iTMS so they have/are convincing their clients to stay away from it...?


Lethal

EDIT:

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
When at the end of this year itunes hits Windoz and becomes global, the bands opting out now will see how much they're losing.

Well, I think something will change. Either you are going to sell yer music via things like iTMS or you are going to sell more than just songs on a CD (i.e. Metallica including, for free, a DVD + access to dozens of unleased live trax via their website when you purchased St. Anger). I think the days of selling just music on a CD are on their way out.

 

[amnesiac1984]

Re: Whole Album

Originally posted by leenoble
Since 'The Bends' I'd be hard pushed to listen to an entire Radiohead album from start to finish since by about the third song I'd have slashed my wrists.

I need someone to pass me the prozac whenever I hear a single one of their songs on the radio.

[off topic]
I always laugh when people find Radiohead depressing. Because you can not really get any further from the truth. Just cos a song is slow doesn't mean its depressing. I mean if you bother to listen to the lyrics or understand what the songs are about you'd realise that its anything but. Radiohead's sound is intimate and reflective and innovative. If you find it depressing then you can't have much of an idea of what they are about. Depressing songs are usually about life being crap and not being able to deal with things, the general message from radiohead is more like a commentary on how to improve things in life.

What makes me laugh harder is when Nirvana and Korn fans find it depressing!

On another note, the one song that I think can be described as depressing is "Creep" but that's from a different era.
[/off topic]

I agree, the only albums I like, I listen to all of at times, and at times I just have iTunes on Random. But every album I have I make sure I listen to all the way at times.

I agree that these bands generally suck, although RHCP use to be pretty good. I do think they should just give in, but as an artist myself, your work is very personal to you and its a big step to let anyone listen to it, so you want them to listen to it in the way you intend them too. Music is not about market forces and consumer demands, it is about music. Modern Pop, which is NOT music, however, is entirely about market forces and consumer demands.

 

[Le Big Mac]

Well, at least we can't blame the record cos.

Let the bands do this. I don't feel a need to buy their whole album. If they want to lose money on single sales for "creative" reasons, so be it. They won't get my money for anything.

It's not just the record cos. that need to adapt to the changing music market. So do the bands. Make it worth our while to buy the whole album, or lose sales.

 

[tazznb]

quote:

"If you download a single, you may ignore the other tracks on the album," he said. "When our artists record a body of work, it's what they deem to be representative of their careers at that time."

TRANSLATION:

This will severely disrupt sales of certain songs that we know would NEVER sell on their own, and is mainly added to an album as an afterthought to fill in the huge gaps in the album that are representative to the artist's gap in consistent creativity.

Apple's response; eat it: In the future make ALL SONGS equally entertaining.

 

[soosy]

I see their point but....

I understand where these artists are coming from (it's not all greed)... it usually takes at least 2 or 3 listens to a new album before I start to get into it—even with bands I like. In their view, ALL the songs on the album are good and they don't want people to miss out. The thing is... they need to realize that they'll have big fans that love all their stuff and then they'll have other people who only like them as far as "catchy" singles. Why shut out these people?

I do agree with others here... If they don't offer them, people may get them other ways. They'll also lose the exposure of having all 30 second previews of all their songs on iTMS. Plus Apple has said half the song purchases have been as complete albums anyway.

 

[NatronB]

Re: Re: Whole Album

Originally posted by amnesiac1984
[off topic]
I always laugh when people find Radiohead depressing.

Amen, brotha.

And who's the joker that doesn't listen to Radiohead albums all the way through? KID A, anyone? What, can't focus for 45 minutes?

Everything I've heard about St. Anger sez that it's terrible, not like Metallica has been the vanguard of anything interesting ever.

Chili Peppers have evolved from straight up funk to ballad surfer rock. Plus I have more vocal range than Anthony Kietus.

As for Green Day, since when do they write album music? Even Dookie (one of the great albums of our times) is a collection of singles. And haven't the last two Green Day albums been 1) a collection of greatest hits, and 2) a collection of B-Sides.

Linkin Park- yeah, cause rap metal was a good idea.
I've never seen little kids be more serious about bad music. Do some drugs for chrissake!

-N

 

[Bear]

Re: Some Bands Say No to iTunes

Originally posted by Macrumors
This Reuters article reports that certain bands won't agree to sell albums by the song.

The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, Green Day and Linkin Park are cited as bands unwilling to agree to Apple's iTunes Music Store terms which require individual song sales. The reason is said to be due to "creative" concerns (according to Mark Reiter with Q Prime Management Co):
...

As far as I know all of the above groups have albums that do not contain themes. If all of their albums were themed and a cohesive set, then their argument might hold water.

For an example, many Pink Floyd albums tell a story. (But not all.) And even then a lot of those tracks from the "story" albums could stand alone.

These groups just don't want to make more money I guess.

 

[JMGrimp]

I don't see the problem

If it's so important that the album be heard in its entirety then make one 30 minute long song. Pink Floyd, in essence, did that with The Wall. Problem solved.

Carry on....

 

[Bear]

Re: I don't see the problem

Originally posted by JMGrimp
If it's so important that the album be heard in its entirety then make one 30 minute long song. Pink Floyd, in essence, did that with The Wall. Problem solved.

Carry on....

Actually The Wall is 26 tracks. It is Wish You Were Here that is two tracks. Of course those two tracks represent the two sides of the original record.

 

[NatronB]

Re: Re: Re: What about radio?

Originally posted by QuiteSure
I certainly think an album can be a work of art (e.g., Supernatural by Carlos Santana)

You go say something like that, how the hell am I supposed to take you seriously?

-N

 

[JMGrimp]

Talent

Actually The Wall is 26 tracks.

True, but that is only because they sliced it up that way. If you listen straight through, there's rarely a pause in the sound. It's one of the rare albums where the tracks sound so much richer when listened to in context.

 

[Frobozz]

Well, this isn't so bad.

Apple should allow these artists to sell whole albums online. I would buy an album online if they cut a deal on it... many are $9.99 for an album of 13 songs. Why complain?

Furthermore, I think there is a very good argument for the sale of albums versus single tracks. I'm all for selling single tracks... really I am. But I must consider the other side of this argument. If an artist was to only make an album for "chart-toppers", then everything would end up being the same (within the genre and target audience of course). If artists were to just release songs that they thought would sell, then we no longer have the concept of an album as we know it today. Well, maybe that's good and maybe that isn't. How many times have you listened to an album that you love, even though you'd only pick out maybe 4 of the 10 tracks individually? Probably a lot, because you enjoy the entire work.

I'm not necessarily defending the whole album sale, because I think it's used as a defense for generally poor quality albums these days. But there is another VALID side to the arguement-- you don't get the artists vision and complete "story" for each album. Some people will miss this, and some don't care-- but I think there needs to be a happy middleground. Personally, I think they should allow single song downloads, but give the customer a good deal on an album.

Quite frankly, the cheap-ass people who don't want to buy an album for $9.99 are a little scary. It's one thing if there is truly a single song you want and you have to dish out for the full $9.99... but that's not usually the case unless the artist is a one hit wonder.

Now how about compilation albums? These albums take all the "hits" from a band, or group of bands, and put them on one album. I could go and buy each song on each album seperate, or buy the compilation and save a load of cash. Case in point: "The Very Best of Sting and the Poilce". $9.99 for 18 tracks of (IMO) great music. These songs spanned probably 6 albums that I had the option of buying seperate. While these compilations are less likely for newer songs, they are common for newer songs by DJ's and for Hip-Hip. You see them on late night TV all the time. Are these CD's going to make it to the iTunes store? If so, we begin to make an arguement for the good-value album sale and the per-song $.99 charge.

I think that a couple of things have to happen on both sides of the coin:

1) More signal-to-noise from the record industry. I want less same-as-before crap and less one hit wonders. Musicians: you write music for a living. If you can do that sucessfully you should thank your lucky stars. I don't owe you anything. If you don't make something I want to buy you shouldn't expect legal requirements to get poor suckers to fork over cash anyway.

2) Apple should allow whole-album sales. Let the artists who want this to have it. They will either sink or swim on their own merit.

3) Album sales should always be $9.99

4) Compilation albums should be more popular in the iTMS. They are, statistically, very high sellers in stores because people want more bang for their buck. Again, less crap tracks.

5) Apple will have to figure out a way to make whole-album-only sales versus single-track sales fair to the body of artists who are in the store. How? I'll be damned if I know. Maybe it's a threshold based on volume of sales? If you have enough clout we'll allow you to sell an album? I dunno.

Ah well, that's my 99 cents.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re: Whole Album

...but as an artist myself, your work is very personal to you and its a big step to let anyone listen to it, so you want them to listen to it in the way you intend them too.

The bands mentioned are professional musicians. They should be past the "big step" of having other people listen to their music. I can understand an artist refusing to allow a portion of a song to be played somewhere for the reasons mentioned. However, not wanting the album sold in "bits" for fear of damaging the artistic nature of the album? I say it's a crock. Those bands don't produce rock operas.

Music is not about market forces and consumer demands, it is about music. Modern Pop, which is NOT music, however, is entirely about market forces and consumer demands.

Totally agree with the second part. It's amazing how pop stars can just be made, like any other marketable product. The first part...I dunno. I guess I haven't taken my philosophical pills yet today. Actually, I think I do get your drift. Musicians who are TRUE music lovers and have absolutely NO interest in the almighty buck, should be honoured to have their music heard in any forum. Is that what you mean? I'm sure those types are few and far between but you saw a couple of bands speak out on Napster's behalf (i.e Dave Matthews Band, Foo Fighters). I have to respect that. (Although it's undoubtedly an easier position to take after you've made a few of those unimportant almighty bucks.)

Anyway, music is good.

Squire

 

[jettredmont]

Re: Re: I don't see the problem

Originally posted by Bear
Actually The Wall is 26 tracks. It is Wish You Were Here that is two tracks. Of course those two tracks represent the two sides of the original record.

Actually five tracks IIRC (Have a Cigar, Welcome to the Machine, Wish You Were Here, plus the mega-song Shine On You Crazy Diamond split into two chunks, parts 1-5 and 6-8 or something like that) ...

But, yes, SOYCD is something like 80% of the running time of the album, and totally dominates the beginning of the first side and end of the second side ...

OTOH, Pink Floyd is fairly well represented (maybe fully represented; I only looked for a few albums for curiosities' sake) in iTMS ... Hmmmmm ....

 

[MacJoe]

This just further proves that the music industry isn't about talent at all. AFAIC, this just means three fewer no-talent "artists" I have to wade through to get to the good stuff. Someday, both the "artists" and the labels will wake up and smell it.

 

[Foxer]

they're both right and wrong

Actually, they're right for the wrong reasons. I think these bands are grasping at straws in order to sell these lesser known songs in their catalog. Simple profit motive, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to be paid for your labors. However, the risk they run is to lose revenue as the internet sale of music moves along without them.

However, in the long run, I am worried that "albums" could die out. Many of my favorite songs are "burried" deep in albums, and one can wonder if I would have ever heard them if I wasn't compelled to buy them by the economics of the industry.

 

[iJon]

man that really sucks but i can see there concern. when i got meteora all i listened to was somewhere i belong. but like what i did with hybrid theory, i listened to all the songs and soon enough somewhere i belong was the song i was listening to the least. that just really sucks linkin park wont hop on, ive really been waiting to purchase meteora from the store.

iJon

 

[Squire]

Re: they're both right and wrong

However, in the long run, I am worried that "albums" could die out. Many of my favorite songs are "burried" deep in albums, and one can wonder if I would have ever heard them if I wasn't compelled to buy them by the economics of the industry.

Excellent, excellent point.

One example- a great band from Canada, The Tragically Hip, has an album called Phantom Power. One of the last tracks is a wicked tune called Emperor Penguin. Like you said, it's "buried" in the album and even a lot of Hip fans missed the greatness of that tune.

Squire

 

[XForge]

These artists don't seem to have the slightest "creative" concerns when commercial radio gets their discs and only plays one or two songs off them. You can get eighty minutes of music on a compact disc and the radio plays maybe seven minutes total off any one of 'em, ever. But I never seem to hear RHCP, Metallica or Linkin Blecch whining about that. Wonder why - could it beeeee... hmm, I dunno.... BLATANT GREED????

 

[beefcake]

Abbey Road is an album, a Linkin Park cd is one or two popular tracks surrounded by noise.

 

[Potus]

Re: Re: Whole Album

Originally posted by amnesiac1984
[off topic]



I agree that these bands generally suck, although RHCP use to be pretty good. I do think they should just give in, but as an artist myself, your work is very personal to you and its a big step to let anyone listen to it, so you want them to listen to it in the way you intend them too. Music is not about market forces and consumer demands, it is about music. Modern Pop, which is NOT music, however, is entirely about market forces and consumer demands.

IMO, that's what concerts are for: to listen to the music in the way the musicians want us to listen to it. Metallica fought and destroyed Napster, now they're aiming at iTunes. I think they will lose this battle and the opportunity to sell more music.

 

[MetallicPenguin]

NNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! METALLICA!!!!!!!!!! I'll try to get in contact with them.

 

[serpicolugnut]

Losers...

If any of these "artists" (and I use that term quite loosely) ever actually put out an album that was worthy of being listened to from start to finish, I might respect their dissent. But they haven't.

It all comes down to economics. They obviously feel threatened that someone can buy 1 song and their take would only be about 10 cents. They would rather alienate that customer and gamble that they will opt for the entire album.

These acts need a kick in the arse. None of them are producing the modern day equivilent of Sgt. Pepper. Jeesh. Get over yourselves.