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mectojic

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Dec 27, 2020
1,232
2,376
Sydney, Australia
I’ve been reading a lot of perspectives about this update, but I’m amazed that no matter what Apple does, there’s always a large contingent of folks who are still unhappy.

(I’m not referring to the OP specifically here. They were simply pointing out that Apple may be limiting certain features through software, which we’ve known as true through many examples that have been highlighted already. I’ll even add another… features like Stage Manager being limited to newer iPads at first. I believe Apple’s reason for this is keeping an eye on the overall performance and experience versus creating something that’s subpar or doesn’t meet their bar.)

And ya know what, that’s fine with me.

The perspective I don’t see at all is this one: the new M3 Airs do something cool that previous models couldn’t do. Cool! And for all the people complaining about buying an M3 Pro last year and upset that this was withheld from them, well now with an update it works for yours too! So now… your laptop does something even better than what it could do when you originally bought it. Isn’t that great? Sounds like a win to me.

If folks are upset about lower end models not supporting the connectivity or features they want, that’s why higher end models exist. Would it be great if they were offered in an entry level model that’s slimmer or cheaper? Well of course. But that’s not a deal breaker. You buy from what’s offered based on your unique needs.
It's ok to complain.
I don't speak for everyone, but I will say that these posts are nit-picks, when on the whole most of us are extremely satisfied with what we do buy.

Personally, no matter what random impositions Apple puts on software and hardware, I'm still buying Apple products 100% of the time. There is no alternative for me to MacOS.

But it's still ok to complain. Not because "Tim Cook sux", but because Apple is the best; still, that doesn't mean it can't aim to be even better.
 

Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68030
Dec 3, 2016
2,738
3,009
USA
The new Macbook Air supports 2 external displays in clamshell mode, compared to just 1 on the M1/M2 Airs.
There was nothing that the M3 added that would've enabled this; the M1 and M2 already had plenty of raw CPU/GPU power to do this.

It's purely a software decision.
Apple uses software to make their entry models worse.

Yeah, they've actually done this for decades now, but it's still sad. It's 2024, we should be living in the future, and instead we get artificial roadblocks.

(On that note, Apple's noise-cancelling software for the Airpods Pro could easily be brought to regular Airpods, and even to wired Earpods... would be nice to have a wired option.)
Get over it. Vendors make different levels of product at different price points. One chip might be software-constrained to be used in six different products. So what?
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,669
23,574
I’ve been reading a lot of perspectives about this update, but I’m amazed that no matter what Apple does, there’s always a large contingent of folks who are still unhappy.

(I’m not referring to the OP specifically here. They were simply pointing out that Apple may be limiting certain features through software, which we’ve known as true through many examples that have been highlighted already. I’ll even add another… features like Stage Manager being limited to newer iPads at first. I believe Apple’s reason for this is keeping an eye on the overall performance and experience versus creating something that’s subpar or doesn’t meet their bar.)

And ya know what, that’s fine with me.

The perspective I don’t see at all is this one: the new M3 Airs do something cool that previous models couldn’t do. Cool! And for all the people complaining about buying an M3 Pro last year and upset that this was withheld from them, well now with an update it works for yours too! So now… your laptop does something even better than what it could do when you originally bought it. Isn’t that great? Sounds like a win to me.

If folks are upset about lower end models not supporting the connectivity or features they want, that’s why higher end models exist. Would it be great if they were offered in an entry level model that’s slimmer or cheaper? Well of course. But that’s not a deal breaker. You buy from what’s offered based on your unique needs.

It's difficult to forget every MacBook Air prior to November 2020 supported dual external monitors without this clamshell nonsense. This includes the Intel-based MBA launched in March 2020. It also includes $159 Chromebooks available today at Best Buy.

If you were born in a world without proper dual monitor support, M3 behavior might seem acceptable to you. But for people who are familiar with it for the past 20 years, the M3 is not normal. It's like living in a world where Coca-Cola costs $5 per can. To put it simply, Apple hasn't done enough.
 

casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
7,485
5,649
Horsens, Denmark
It's really not that simple. For one thing, the M1 based computers are not physically wired in such a way to make this possible at all. That is not to say you could not wire up an M1 based Mac to support multiple external displays; Might very well be possible. But they aren't. That's a physical limitation, not a software imposed one.

And while the M2 Macs did start routing the display controller powering the internal display through a routing complex, specifically to support the Mac mini allowing any and all of its display connectors to work for the two displays, not requiring 1x USB-C + 1x HDMI for two displays, I am unsure if the routing complex is the same for M3 or if it were just less flexible in laptops on M2 than Mac mini or whatnot. If the routing complex was different, even if equally powerful, extending its functionality based on clamshell states may not be trivially. Which brings me to my next point:

What constitutes an artificial software limitation? Is it an artificial software limitation that all computer's aren't 10% faster than they are because their respective operating system vendor's may have been able, theoretically, to hyper-optimise the code to allow for that? Surely not because they tried to unlock as much potential of the hardware as possible, even if the theoretical limit isn't reached.
Well, what about a hardware vendor putting a chip in a device that allows for bluetooth and Wi-Fi; Only caring about the Wi-Fi functionality for the intended product, and only developing a driver for that portion of the chip? The hardware is capable of more. It wasn't like the code to utilise the bluetooth part was already there and just being turned off; It was never developed. Is that artificially limited by software? I would argue not; While the hardware is capable of more, it's not a simple "if (not Pro) { disableBluetooth() }" - It's a lot of hours of work and R&D cost to develop the required software to power the product.

I don't know if the firmware and software required to facilitate the disabling of the internal display, and re-routing its connection to an external display would be possible to port to M2 based machines with 0-effort; just flipping the switch. Maybe. In that case, sure, it's artificial. I'll concede to that, although I will also accept arguments that it isn't and the product segmentation is required to fund the R&D investment in the feature for the new product line. But if it isn't exactly portable with 0-effort; I really don't think we can call that artificial. - And regardless, it's definitely not possible with the M1 hardware as-is.
Product vision also matters. Let's say it were possible to subdivide the total frame buffer size of the available display output of any M# chip across its ports. Would it be acceptable for the product to allow this odd behaviour to the end user? Where it's possible to connect 5x 1080p, but not 3x 1080 + 1x 5K or whatnot? That may be deemed too confusing and a limit settled on that is maintainable in any condition. - This is a hypothetical, I'm not saying the hardware is set up for this.

I find that a lot of the time when people talk about artificial software limitations, it's a misunderstanding of the hardware capabilities, or the complexity in supporting a given functionality in software and the required man-hours of work to do so
 

iHorseHead

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2021
1,307
1,575
You can even use 3 external displays on a MacBook Air M1 2020 with 8GB of RAM.
Tested and done with Dell's docking station. Works beautifully.
 
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bill-p

macrumors 68030
Jul 23, 2011
2,895
1,554
It's really not that simple.

It is. Here's a free app that does most of what you just spent so much time to convince people that's "impossible".


Bottom line: the limit here is entirely software.
 

T'hain Esh Kelch

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2001
6,341
7,209
Denmark
In this case I will give Apple the benefit of the doubt. It makes no sense to backport it, if it wasn't their intension all along. Assuming Apple decided to backport it due to media uproar over 6h is laughable. My take is that they didn't have it stable yet, and that is why it wasn't released with the MBPs initially. Apples support and stability for displays have been very wonky from the release of the M1, but has improved continuously with every M release in great strides, and this just follows the pattern. Sure, they could have thrown more money and fixed it quicker, but one can say that about all their software, and they are likely prioritizing.

The moment they make 16GB/512GB the base model, I think 99% of complainers will go away, even if every other ram/SSD upgrade costs the same (or even more).
Until everyone feels 32GB/1TB is the minimum! I was very happy that my 2016 Macbook M3 retina came with 8GB base RAM, but now I want 16GB in my M3 MBA.
This isn't anything new.

Remember when Apple "offered" to sell us a software patch to enable the 802.11n compatibility that we already had on our hardware?
It is possible that that was a license issue, and they weren't allowed to freely release the update. It was such a minor fee that anything else didn't make sense, and Jobs was not known for nickel and diming it like Cook. They also had to sell OSX at an extremely low price for a couple of releases because of licensing Issues, which, after that got fixed, OSX became free. So it was not without presedence.
 

ctjack

macrumors 65816
Mar 8, 2020
1,371
1,410
I suspect this is actually just an oversight - the idea of using two external and not the internal probably never crossed their minds. Why it has to be in clamshell mode vs just turning off the internal screen though, that's a mystery (overheating when closed is a real thing).
8-10 gpu cores can only drive 2 external displays. If not the clamshell then user would be using the laptop body as a glamorous keyboard with turned off screen. Screen turn off is added complication to program: like if you connect 2 externals would the user feel fine if the laptop blacked out? If yes, then how to turn on the screen back: is it a button on macos toolbar or we physically disconnect the usbc hdmi cable?

With clamshell, display turn off is built in already and expected. So operation would be if you open the lid then please expect to turn on your laptop screen and black out one of the external displays as expected.
 

iHorseHead

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2021
1,307
1,575
It is. Here's a free app that does most of what you just spent so much time to convince people that's "impossible".


Bottom line: the limit here is entirely software.
Thanks for that! I'd like to mention again, that I use a Dell's docking station and display link manager. I can connect 3 displays to my MacBook Air M1 and even Apple's System Settings I can arrange the displays. It works beautifully.
I've always been able to use several displays, except when some update to Big Sur was released. After that only one display worked and the second display didn't. I came with this problem here and people were telling me also "that it's not possible". Then I upgraded to Monterey and it worked beautifully again.
 
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bill-p

macrumors 68030
Jul 23, 2011
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Let's say it were possible to subdivide the total frame buffer size of the available display output of any M# chip across its ports. Would it be acceptable for the product to allow this odd behaviour to the end user? Where it's possible to connect 5x 1080p, but not 3x 1080 + 1x 5K or whatnot?

But that's precisely what Apple did in a very recent past.

2x 6K displays or 4x 4K displays.

Again, please, stop defending them. Apple had to give us this capability with the MacBook Air now because of the sharp drop in Mac sales and they absolutely must push M3 sales up.
 

Zorori

macrumors regular
Nov 26, 2017
246
325
Let’s say Apple added all the support to Air and that would cannibalize Pro sales. Apple would be “good guy” but the profits would go down. That’s a bad business decision. Apple is a business. Sometimes people forget that businesses are supposed to drive sales and maximize their profits…

I don't think it would cannibalise Pro sales. The markets are very different and Apple should just acknowledge that.

I have no intention of buying a heavier laptop and have no use for any of the ports on the Pro or the GPU grunt, so won't be buying a Pro. Just like travelling executives probably have no need for the Pro features, except maybe additional screens when at a desk

Others have a need for those ports and more GPU power for rendering, etc. They would never buy the Air as it is not capable of running long, high load tasks or would require a load of cables/dongles to attach to whatever it is they are tied to

A similarly specced Air and MBP should sell for the same price -- some value portability and others performance. Why should one be "more valuable" than the other? Apple could do with an "SE" to take the place of the non-retina Air and let the Air shine as what is, rather than cripple it
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,669
23,574
Thanks for that! I'd like to mention again, that I use a Dell's docking station and display link manager. I can connect 3 displays to my MacBook Air M1 and even Apple's System Settings I can arrange the displays. It works beautifully.
I've always been able to use several displays, except when some update to Big Sur was released. After that only one display worked and the second display didn't. I came with this problem here and people were telling me also "that it's not possible". Then I upgraded to Monterey and it worked beautifully again.

Until they find a way to resolve this, DisplayLink is not a viable solution for most users.

 

casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
7,485
5,649
Horsens, Denmark
But that's precisely what Apple did in a very recent past.

2x 6K displays or 4x 4K displays.

Again, please, stop defending them. Apple had to give us this capability with the MacBook Air now because of the sharp drop in Mac sales and they absolutely must push M3 sales up.
I am aware. I was emphasising the fact that it is a design consideration for each product whether this behaviour is acceptable and to what degree. And what support matrix should be listed. 2x6K | 4x4K were highlighted because it's based on the XDR display and common high resolution displays respectively. But many more resolutions are possible not in the listed support matrix cause it is an overwhelming overflow of information to consider. And for different product categories one needs to consider the support matrix both listed and in the product
 

casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
7,485
5,649
Horsens, Denmark
It is. Here's a free app that does most of what you just spent so much time to convince people that's "impossible".


Bottom line: the limit here is entirely software.

I didn't really say anything was impossible except for re-routing the display lanes of the internal display on M1 to external displays, and BetterDisplay won't do that for you. It may however split the frame buffer capacity of the existing external outputs. Never said that wasn't possible, only talked about the effort required to make it happen - And I do think effort was put into BetterDisplay and DisplayLink hardware and the like. That makes it non-artificial even if software is the limiting factor - My Mac doesn't ship with software to run Android apps, but I can download free programs that can do so, clearly the hardware can do it, and Apple artificially limited it - Doesn't exactly make sense to me.

For the record, I'm not trying to defend anything or anyone. I'm saying that it's a matter of decisions of what to develop and support, not a matter of decisions to *artificially block*. You may still validly disagree with the decisions made. And I do strongly disagree with some of the decisions Apple has made throughout the years. Not saying Apple has no faults. But I disagree with classifying things as artificial software limitations because the resources haven't been spent on developing something. Developing software for a living I can also say that there's plenty of times we decide to cut a feature or limit a feature, not to spite people, but because we believe it is optimal for the product experience. That's not as applicable in this particular discussion, but sometimes, simplifying things for the more mainstream products and only having advanced options on the more niche products, is about giving the more mainstream customers a less cluttered, easier to use experience more-so than it is about limiting it. But remember, as mentioned, it's usually not a "if (not Pro) { limit() }" situation either, but rather a case of the features simply not being prioritised and developed for a specific product and it's quirks and characteristics
 

matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
4,892
Technically, the dock supports 4K. But realistically, anything like a pair of 4K monitors makes the cursor lag crazy.
Yeah I think when we only focus on how many monitors we can connect we kind of miss a bigger point. Anything less than 4K 60 is unacceptable today.
Someone might be able to connect 2 monitors from MBA in addition of the native screen but if it’s only HD resolution then it‘s kind of useless from today consumer standard.
 
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neuropsychguy

macrumors 68020
Sep 29, 2008
2,435
5,846
The moment they make 16GB/512GB the base model, I think 99% of complainers will go away, even if every other ram/SSD upgrade costs the same (or even more).
Have you been around people much, especially people online? If 16/512 was the base model, people would complain about other things. That might sound cynical (and I'm not a cynical person at all!), but it's standard online behavior. There is always some new thing for people to get upset about.

There are ways, by the way, to push for new features (e.g., 16/512 as base model) without complaining. Feedback versus complaining is based on tone and words used. Anyone can complain, it takes skill to offer constructive feedback.
 
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geta

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2010
1,517
1,243
The Moon
The moment they make 16GB/512GB the base model, I think 99% of complainers will go away, even if every other ram/SSD upgrade costs the same (or even more).
Apple making Macbook Air with 1 external display support = OP and others like him complain
Apple making Macbook Air with 2 external displays support= OP and others like him complain
No matter what Apple does....well
People will always find something to complain about.
 

leifp

macrumors 6502
Feb 8, 2008
367
355
Canada
All hardware is software constrained. Why and in which manner(s) are the only things that need to be determined. For my money, Apple has chosen correctly on the base M chips until now, and I think their approach of keeping it at two displays max for the base M chips is likely correct as well.
 
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geta

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2010
1,517
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The Moon
People forget that there is a limit to how many screens the current GPU on the base M chips can support.
 
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