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The use of the word "gay"
- Thread starter vmardian
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QCassidy352 said:Bull it has a complete duality. I'm straight, but this annoys the **** out of me. Even if it's not how you intend it, where do you think this comes from? It comes from people who don't like homosexuals using the word "gay" to derogate other things they don't like by association.
How anyone can think that making "gay" a synonym for "bad" is just slang with no meaning is totally beyond me. It's loaded with meaning.
Anyone here think it would be Ok to say, "that's so black" when what you mean is "that's so bad"? Or do you think that maybe, just maybe, making a word that people use to define themselves synonymous with negativity could suggest something beyond slang? Gimme a freaking break here.
Thanks, that's what I was trying to say earlier but you said it better.
I use it, probably a lot. My friends use it, everyone does. I dunno maybe, it's the younger generation. I've never used it in the sense that it's like "wow, that's gay" = "wow, that's homosexual". Yea it's to put down someone, but it'd be like the same thing as callin' someone a fat ass for being a slob, I got nothing against fat people, and I'm sure fat people don't take a offense. Umm yea I dunno where i'm goin with this. The points somewhere along those vague lines.
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
I agree that I am sensitive.
But, if you look at why people like me have become sensitive, it might be behoovie to become sensitive to the words we choose as well.
If you're gay and grew up in an a Southern town, going to Southern schools you know what I mean. And if you didn't, imagine it. And then imagine a world without those problems, and you'll see why people are still sensitive to gay being used as a negative word.
But, if you look at why people like me have become sensitive, it might be behoovie to become sensitive to the words we choose as well.
If you're gay and grew up in an a Southern town, going to Southern schools you know what I mean. And if you didn't, imagine it. And then imagine a world without those problems, and you'll see why people are still sensitive to gay being used as a negative word.
Whether you agree with it or not the word "gay" will be used to describe things that people don't like. Like the previously banned Joti stated "This thread is gay," is a perfect example of today's society. It's just the way society/slang is...I know that it's a shame but like I said that's the way it is...hopefully some celebrity and/or rap star will create a new word to replace the derogatory use of the word gay
gay (gā)
adj., gay·er, gay·est.
1. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry.
3. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.
4. Given to social pleasures.
5. Dissolute; licentious.
thats the meaning of gay: no more, no less.
adj., gay·er, gay·est.
1. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry.
3. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.
4. Given to social pleasures.
5. Dissolute; licentious.
thats the meaning of gay: no more, no less.
No, but I'm a big fan of picking your battles. Of all the things wrong with this world that we should actively try to change, is this anywhere near the top of the list?leekohler said:Oh OK, so I should just sit back and say nothing and be happy about it? WTF?
mad jew said:
That's the problem. When the word gay is used to express distaste it reinforces negative feelings with that word, duality or no duality. It is not just the word, or the intent behind using it, it is the entire expression that comes at the moment of it's use. I'm talking about body language, facial expression, tone etc. Overall, there is a negative imprint left after it's use. To the person using it (as it reinforces dissatisfaction, even contempt, with the word), and anyone within listening/viewing distance to witness the ever cliché "that's gay" performance.
I realize it has grown to be habitual with a lot of people. Especially when it was really prevalent two/three years ago. I like to think it does not bother me, but I cannot help thinking about someone who is still in the closet who encounters this on a daily basis. Before coming out I remember how anxious, nervous, insecure, frightened (you get the picture) anytime anything related to homosexuality came up... whether it was positive or negative. Just the idea that someone might connect the topic with me at the moment was frightening enough. But, negative instances (which were 99% of the time), are much worse.
Remembering back on this I cannot help but point out to people that intention is not necessary to make someone upset. Words can be powerful. Even if they are not as meaningful to you, they move others in ways you would not understand. Even though you split the derogatory connotation from a more playful usage, it is only set up like that in your head. You do not know how others will react to your usage, mal-intended or not.
I tell my friends I have no issue if they use it around me but advise them to grow out of the habit as they may be hurting/pushing away other friends, co-workers, or strangers who may not be out yet. I think they would be the most sensitive group to this terms flippant use. Then the larger gay population in general.
Sorry about the longish post. This is one of those issues I go back and forth on. Although it was a fashionable fad to use this expression a while back, it still lingers, and so does the negative baggage it continually collects. I also like the word, like Mad Jew says "it rolls off the tongue" (or something like that). It is an interesting word to say... so if you must keep it in your daily vernacular, use it in reaction to something you LOVE.
I do agree that it's in distaste to use "gay" in a derogatory manner and I don't (think) I use it in such a way.
But it is hard to draw a line. Like mad jew brought up earlier, what about using the world, "lame?" Or another I often hear, "retarded?" And even the seemingly harmless, "stupid." People who aren't born particularly bright can still take offence and feel ashamed of not being as intelligent as others.
But it is hard to draw a line. Like mad jew brought up earlier, what about using the world, "lame?" Or another I often hear, "retarded?" And even the seemingly harmless, "stupid." People who aren't born particularly bright can still take offence and feel ashamed of not being as intelligent as others.
Maybe it's because I'm Australian and we swear all the time, we rarely get offended and the gays I know join in their humorous self-deprication*, but this thread is making me double my efforts to stop using gay in a derogatory sense. I barely use it, but it'd be nice to cease completely and considering some homosexuals are finding it offensive, I really don't want to continue.
However, I stand by the fact that unintended insults/offense should be taken with a grain of salt. I think a word's meaning is that which has been assigned/implied/intended by the speaker as language is merely a means at transferring meanings. Language is alive, it is dynamic. Today gay means homosexual and something bad, but hopefully this will change with time.
In the meantime, I understand the reason for being offended (I would hate it if mad jew suddenly became synonymous with something derogatory) but as grapes911 said, worse is happening. The gays are not the one with the problem, nor the solution. It's the people like myself who've developed the bad habit of using this duality (and yes, I still think it is a duality) who need to stop and think about what we're saying. At the moment, all I can do is try. For what it's worth, I really don't use it in the negative sense any more.
*It's very Australian to basically pay the crap out of everyone, including ourselves.
However, I stand by the fact that unintended insults/offense should be taken with a grain of salt. I think a word's meaning is that which has been assigned/implied/intended by the speaker as language is merely a means at transferring meanings. Language is alive, it is dynamic. Today gay means homosexual and something bad, but hopefully this will change with time.
In the meantime, I understand the reason for being offended (I would hate it if mad jew suddenly became synonymous with something derogatory) but as grapes911 said, worse is happening. The gays are not the one with the problem, nor the solution. It's the people like myself who've developed the bad habit of using this duality (and yes, I still think it is a duality) who need to stop and think about what we're saying. At the moment, all I can do is try. For what it's worth, I really don't use it in the negative sense any more.
*It's very Australian to basically pay the crap out of everyone, including ourselves.
I never said that... you can preach and protest and state your opinion all you want, I'm just acknowledging that that's the way society is... and hopefully the derogatory use of that slang will go away sooner than later.leekohler said:Oh OK, so I should just sit back and say nothing and be happy about it? WTF?
grapes911 said:
I don't hear anyone here advocating diverting money from AIDS relief or abandoning feeding the homeless so that more time and effort can be spent on this battle. This is one thing that it takes very little to change.
1) don't say it yourself
2) call other people on it when they say it
No crusade necessary.
devilot said:
That's a good point. But the question, IMO, isn't "could someone potentially take offense" but, "Is someone actually taking offense." The other difference is that I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that not being able to walk is a bad thing. Not that "lame" people are bad, but that the condition of being lame really is negative. I think people who can't walk would agree with that. The same can't be said of being gay. That being said, if I actually thought that people who couldn't walk took serious offense to my using the word lame, I'd try really hard to stop doing it.
I don't believe that we all have to cater to the most thin-skinned person in the room. Sometimes people do just need to toughen up a bit. But to have a societal norm making negativity synonymous with the word "gay" makes a pretty serious and hurtful statement.
Oh, and I would never use the word "retarded" to denigrate something. I do think that's really hurtful to people who are mentally handicapped. Lord knows they have it hard enough as it is.
You know what really grinds my gears?
Using "gay" as a synonym for "stupid" or "bad" etc. One of my cousins has taken to this, so I always make sure to smack him when he does it.
Using "gay" as a synonym for "stupid" or "bad" etc. One of my cousins has taken to this, so I always make sure to smack him when he does it.
I agree that while people might not being intending to offend by using the word, it does encourage negative associations with the word which does affect homosexuals overall. I regret the word 'gay' meaning homosexual primarily since its original definition made it a lovely word that now is almost unusable to avoid causing inadvertent offense or the wrong meaning entirely.
English is such a rich language that there have to be other words that could be used to express your general dissatisfaction - other than lame or retarded which are equally bad. *goes to pull out Thesauraus*
English is such a rich language that there have to be other words that could be used to express your general dissatisfaction - other than lame or retarded which are equally bad. *goes to pull out Thesauraus*
Applespider said:
Here's a suggestion, not from the <thesaurus>, but from living in France and learning a new language. I really like the word "moche" to describe something unpleasant or distasteful. Maybe we can do a little reverse-anglification (is that a word) of french and incorporate this into english.
Cheers
Counterfit said:
So what you are REALLY teaching your cousins is that when someone does something you dont like you should hit them.
I can't remember the last time I used the term 'gay' other than as a reference to homosexuality, and I don't think I've ever used it as a derogatory term. Its funny how different parts of the English speaking world all have their own little nuances.
The fact that in the US, and even closer to home in the UK, you can't use the term ni**er at all while here it was in use quite harmlessly on a daily basis until a couple of years ago with no hint of offence. We had a local rum called 'Ni**er Head' with a logo that was an African's head in profile.
Personally I'd never use the phrase 'bananas are gay' but you have to admit that of all the fruits the banana does seem most likely to actually be gay, I don't know why maybe its just a phalic thing?
mad jew I'd have thought rather than using gay you'd be more likely to use 'that banana's a flamin' galah!'
The fact that in the US, and even closer to home in the UK, you can't use the term ni**er at all while here it was in use quite harmlessly on a daily basis until a couple of years ago with no hint of offence. We had a local rum called 'Ni**er Head' with a logo that was an African's head in profile.
Personally I'd never use the phrase 'bananas are gay' but you have to admit that of all the fruits the banana does seem most likely to actually be gay, I don't know why maybe its just a phalic thing?
mad jew I'd have thought rather than using gay you'd be more likely to use 'that banana's a flamin' galah!'
mpw said:
You know, I've never actually heard anyone say that. It's funny how some colloquialisms become stereotypical even though they are rarely used.
The problem with using the word gay in the trendy youth culture way is it immediately marks you down as a moron.So in that way it is indeed useful.