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mankar4

macrumors 6502a
Aug 23, 2007
624
0
USA
This ruling is BS. Bounce back scroll, patentable? Seriously? Two finger zoom? These are basic multitouch technologies. Yes, they came from apple's brain, but they are good for consumers on all platforms. What if all browsers couldn't have tabs? What if scrolling was taken out of Word and Pages? These are basic things we have all come to rely on. Maybe it was legal for apple to sue, but it wasn't helpful to the consumer. Our patent laws need to change.

The engadget editors offer their opinions, which I agree with: http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/25/editorial-engadget-on-the-apple-vs-samsung-ruling/
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2012
2,530
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
After reading a number of your posts, I decided to check on your post history. It appears that you have not had a single kind thing to say about Apple or their products. Furthermore, your remarks have little or no merit and are *obviously* intended to annoy and/or offend. You might want to Google the term "troll." :)

Oh yes, me buying Apple products, brand new for about 13 years now. I must hate them so much. Just because I buy Macs, means I have to like the iToys? And just because I buy Macs, means I must buy the iToys, and just because I bought an Apple product, means I can't buy any other kind of phone?

I state my opinion, I don't attempt to troll. If you don't like my opinion. Ignore me. Let me tell you exactly how much I care, I care so much, that I don't.

I'm pretty sure I actually scharted just a bit from laughing so hard when you commented that you "actually have a life." Are you implying that people who jump into a thread on occasion at MR's don't have a life? Huh! Interesting observation.

Where did I say people on MR don't have a life? Oh yeah. I didn't. I said people who camp outside of an electronics store for anything really need to take a close look at themselves. I loved my 3GS for the time, I didn't camp out for the 3GS, and I like my GSIII, didn't camp out for that either. Camping out for something like a phone is silly, at best.

And I do come by MR to discuss Apple products, and the company, I've probably bought 20 grand worth of Macs in the past decade, so I think I Have a right to be here, I will criticize Apple products if I don't think they are up to par, and in this case, I don't think the 4/4S was.

can't speak for everyone but I have a beautiful girlfriend, beautiful daughter, wonderful grand kids and more friends than I can list all of whom I spend a *lot* of time with. I also run a successful company, live less than 100' from the edge of the water in San Diego and surf almost every afternoon. Oops. Forgot one thing. I also really like Apple products and stop by MR on occasion to get my rumor mill groove on. I'll tell you one place you will never see me post and that's a site geared towards Android fans. To do so would be kinda creepy considering I don't paticularly care for Android OS and honestly I "actually have a life" and won't waste my time at a site that talks about something I have no interest in. Capesh?

Want a cookie? I also make very good money, though I don't own my own company, I still crack enough salary to have way to much disposable income, thats great that you have all that. However, don't you think camping out for a phone is a bit much?

Well, as far as going to a site geared towards Apple products....at this point in time, I own:

1: Pismo Laptop ( First New Mac I bought for college )
2: iMac G3 ( Bought gently used in high school, had to ring up lots of crap at a super market for that little bad boy )
3: Late G4 Tower ( Bought this second hand as well, loved it )
4: two G5 towers, an dual 1.8, and a quad 2.5 ( this is where that massive 20K number mostly comes from, I bought both these machines decked out )
5: 2011 iMac, 27 inch, mostly optioned out.
6: iPhone 3G/3GS
7: iPhone 4S ( work phone, I guess I don't own it. but I use it all the time ).
8: Old Performa I picked up at a yard sale for 10 bucks, works great.
9: 1st gen G4 mini, bought at a good will for 10 bucks ;). I told her it was a piggy bank ;)

So, I think I own enough Apple products to have an opion on them , what I refuse to do, is support a company when they pull stupid **** ( in my opinion anyway ), just because I bought products before hand from that same company.

If I thought Apple made a Phone as good as the Galaxy III, you bet I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Because I don't care what logo is on the case, I care about how welll the product performs.

One last thing. You mentioned that you would never stand in line at an Apple Store for a product release. I highly recommend you do just that. Maybe by doing so, you'll lighten up just a bit. I stood in line at the Fashion Valley store with my daughter for the initial iPhone release and we had a blast! Met some really great people and the funny thing is that the *vast* majority of talk had nothing to do with phones or Apple.

The only thing I ever waited in line for besides Paul McCartney Tickets, was HALO 2 for the Xbox. While I'm sure iPhone waiting is fun and all that, my old phone will work for another 2 days ;). The Master Chief waits for no one!

I'll admit, I waited in line for my 3GS, for about half an hour, soley because Apple Retail stores suck at moving people ( cash register with lane? Just one! )

----------

Apple is concerned with protecting their brand from a company that has tried to gain traction by ripping off the iPhone, blatantly, and passing it off as a clone.

Microsoft has actually, you know, tried to differentiate themselves.

So...different hardware.....different UI....different kernal....different case materials and more buttons? Right.

Microsoft probably has the best phone on the market besides the high end android phones.

You were never an Apple fan; don't try to kid us.

See my post above, just because I don't like iToys doesn't mean I dislike my sexy Macs.

No offence, but you have to be dense to think that there's a difference between Samsung's Android and Apple's iOS.

The packaging, the home screen, the icons, the look and feel, the design - all based on iOS just so Samsung can get a foothold in the marketplace with cheap knock offs to confuse the public.

samsung-galaxy-s3-vs-apple-iphone-4s-01-e1336321197885.jpg


Umm...

I have zero " hate " towards any company, or product. Because I buy products on how they work, not the brand behind it.

If Apple makes the best phone for the job, I'll buy an Apple Phone, if Samsung makes the best phone, I'll buy that phone. Or HTC, or Nokia, Or whoever. Buy the best for the job.
 
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bamPOW

macrumors newbie
Aug 9, 2012
8
0
We should take a poll about who here thinks you're anti apple. You'd be surprised at the results. You may not actually be, but you sure as heck come off that way.

This is like that guy ltd who got banned saying he's not pro Apple lol :p

Definitely anti apple. Him and kdarling and knightrx
 

thestickman

macrumors regular
Nov 21, 2010
219
18
Jacksonville, FL
Just as a point of contention: With Apple controlling almost all of the smartphone patents, Asus, Gigabyte etc all design things OTHER than smart phones. They design PCs, laptops, motherboards, external accessories etc. If any of them tried to suddenly break into the market, they would find themselves smothered in patents and restrictions to the point that is is not fiscally logical to attempt it. Especially now since something as logical as a device that fits in a hand that is a rectangular shape is now owned by Apple as a patent.

I guess the next step for companies is to design a 3-d banana phone.

Guess they'll have to come up with their own innovative products then. :)
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
This ruling is BS. Bounce back scroll, patentable? Seriously? Two finger zoom? These are basic multitouch technologies. Yes, they came from apple's brain, but they are good for consumers on all platforms. What if all browsers couldn't have tabs? What if scrolling was taken out of Word and Pages? These are basic things we have all come to rely on. Maybe it was legal for apple to sue, but it wasn't helpful to the consumer. Our patent laws need to change.

The engadget editors offer their opinions, which I agree with: http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/25/editorial-engadget-on-the-apple-vs-samsung-ruling/
umm pinch to zoom DID NOT come from Apple brain. It been in use for a very long time before Apple or finger works even dreamed of using it.
 

Snowy_River

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,520
0
Corvallis, OR
I wonder if there will be a celebration with cake and ice cream at Apple on Monday? :D

The cake is a lie...

...If something like this had happened decades ago, only one company would be able to have a QWERTY keyboard...

Sorry, that's not how it works. Patents last for a finite amount of time, then the intellectual property becomes public. The QWERTY keyboard dates back so far that any patent on it would have long since expired. When it was in force, that wouldn't mean that only one company could have a QWERTY keyboard on their typewriters, but rather that any company that wanted one that didn't hold the patent on it would have to license it.

... I mean patents are ridiculous even at best..... The fact of going to court because "you stole my idea" is a waste of effect.

Its like saying "I'm going to sue you over that shade of blue i used on my web site"

Clearly you've never had an idea worth patenting. These ideas aren't just things that you think up on a whim. They are concepts that are in among many others and they are vetted out and developed through much hard work.

I have my name on several patents, and I have several more designs that I hope to get patented. The work that I put in on these designs is not trivial, and if that work was made worthless by the fact that someone else could step in and copy my design as soon as I make it public because there was no protection for intellectual property, then I would have a lot less motivation to put in the effort to develop these ideas. Talk about bad for innovation...

...Just because we, the jury voted him innocent ...

Just to be a little nit picky, you acquitted him as not found guilty, you didn't vote him innocent. There is a difference. Someone can be guilty and acquitted. An acquittal isn't actually a statement of guilt or innocence, whereas a guilty verdict is.
 

LoloBond

macrumors 6502
Nov 21, 2011
436
1
Tim Cook Addresses Apple Employees After Lawsuit Victory...

Tim Cook: Ca Ca Ca Ca$hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin!
 

NitroZip

macrumors member
Dec 31, 2010
81
11
Yes because creating a legacy means that you should sit on your butt, and offer flowers to the competition...

SJ was in this all about creating something that would last forever. You don't become a tech company at the top by moving backwards to where you come from, you move forward with the times to ensure success and longevity.

A starry eyed politician who truly believes he can change the world, soon finds himself shackled by tight rules, committees and other factors. Meaning, it is great to start out completely idealistic, but something else to become the top corporation in America by not adapting. I am sure that the dev team for Apple keeps their spirit alive in the needed way.

So you are saying that you have to become your enemy and do the things you hate most about them to succeed? So in a sense you have become the enemy, but that makes you great? Why doesn't that just make you as low as them?
 

HAMEYO

macrumors member
Jan 19, 2011
98
0
I'm on an Apple forum because I use Apple products and want to express my opinion about them. I don't have to be an Apple fan in order to be here.


Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha, Alright, Ya're Using Apple Products for " ESPIONAGE " Obviously, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

boronathan

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2012
326
0
Who are these multiple posters? That's silliness (not semantics). You? Taz? Sure. Two people today I guess can be "multiple." Or you could just be talking hyperbole. No matter.

multiple, noun: having or relating to more then ONE person. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/multiple

Hyperbole? no. Dictionary definition? Yes.

What semantics game am I playing? I said that the opinions on this board really haven't and won't change based on the verdict. Do you think they have or will? Earlier I said that Cook stated that Apple didn't pursue this case because of patents or money. I think that's PR speak to a company, that as you say, was able to have its competition butts handed to them. It was definitely about patents and about the money Samsung is making off of violating those patents.

The same one I've been telling you about forever. Check my post history.

And since when can a court of law dictate public opinion. Hint: Never. Just like you're entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Whether or not you or I agree with the court/jury is irrelevant. That doesn't make me right or wrong or you right or wrong. What it does make is one opinion in LINE with what the court found.

A court of law CAN'T dictate public opinion. But that doesn't mean your public opinion is right. Let's say I came out with the public opinion that murder is ok. Even when every court in the world says its not. Does it matter what my opinion is? Does my opinion about murder somehow make it ok?

Just like when I served on a jury myself. I knew the guy who committed the violent crime was guilty as hell. The prosecutor wasn't able to provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Just because we, the jury voted him innocent doesn't change my opinion that he's guilty. Nor does it make me wrong to believe he's guilty. Get it? I'm sure you do.

Ohhh so you used the available evidence to make your decision, right? What did this jury do?

I don't believe I've argued, in this thread (and I could be wrong because now I forget) whether or not Samsung was innocent or guilty.

So? You've argued in other threads the very same thing.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,332
31,468
umm pinch to zoom DID NOT come from Apple brain. It been in use for a very long time before Apple or finger works even dreamed of using it.

What consumer products were being sold using pinch to zoom? And if was in use a long long time before the iPhone how come it was not used in mobile phones prior to the iPhone?

----------

the fact that are calling kdarling or knightrx anti apple is a sure fired way to prove you are an apple fanboy.

When the majority of someone's posts a defending another company on an Apple fan site it's not hard to see how someone might see them as anti-Apple. ;)
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
1. You must have missed the part where I said "Two people today I guess can be "multiple." Or you could just be talking hyperbole. No matter." I'm aware of the definition of multiple. Common usage, as I am sure you are aware is to say a couple, a few and then use "multiple." But I get it - you're being snarky and perhaps mocking in the use of semantics back at me.

2. But your comment about me being granular or using semantics is completely irrelevant to this discussion. In the original discussion (not this fascinating back and forth) I wasn't using semantics at all. So what's your point? Next time you post should I randomly write that you always multi-quote and post even if in the thread you didn't. Not germane to the conversation here and you bringing it up is just taking the actual conversation that much further off course. Kudos.

3. The difference is - patents are meant to be challenged. Murder isn't. I'm also pretty sure that murder is an extremely WIDELY adopted "wrong" vs something like this where, in my opinion, more people aren't polarized in one direction. Maybe on this board. Point being - bad analogy and you know it.

4. Again - what I've said in other threads is irrelevant. I asked you about this thread. Aren't you the one that doesn't like when other people don't answer the actual question being asked?

Boronathan - this is rather tedious. Not to mention - we both are pulling focus from the actual discussion which is a waste of everyone's time. So feel free to respond. Or don't. But I won't be engaging again. Anything beyond what we've already said is forum fodder.

Have a great rest of the weekend.

multiple, noun: having or relating to more then ONE person. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/multiple

Hyperbole? no. Dictionary definition? Yes.

The same one I've been telling you about forever. Check my post history.



A court of law CAN'T dictate public opinion. But that doesn't mean your public opinion is right. Let's say I came out with the public opinion that murder is ok. Even when every court in the world says its not. Does it matter what my opinion is? Does my opinion about murder somehow make it ok?



Ohhh so you used the available evidence to make your decision, right? What did this jury do?



So? You've argued in other threads the very same thing.
 

boronathan

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2012
326
0
1. You must have missed the part where I said "Two people today I guess can be "multiple." Or you could just be talking hyperbole. No matter." I'm aware of the definition of multiple. Common usage, as I am sure you are aware is to say a couple, a few and then use "multiple." But I get it - you're being snarky and perhaps mocking in the use of semantics back at me.

Not at all. You seemed to imply that two people being labeled multiple is hyperbole. It's not. Its the dictionary definition of the word. No hyperbole or semantics involved.

3. The difference is - patents are meant to be challenged. Murder isn't. I'm also pretty sure that murder is an extremely WIDELY adopted "wrong" vs something like this where, in my opinion, more people aren't polarized in one direction. Maybe on this board. Point being - bad analogy and you know it.

That's not my point. You stated that if you disagree with a jury verdict, that doesn't make your opinion wrong. Yes. It does. Patents are meant to be challenged, they were challenged and they were upheld. To continue to insist that "IMO the jury is wrong" amounts to arguing that your opinion is not wrong just because it's your opinion. Sure you're entitled to whatever opinion you want but your argument is essentially "I don't care what the courts, judges or juries say. I'm not going to change my opinion no matter what".

Again - what I've said in other threads is irrelevant. I asked you about this thread. Aren't you the one that doesn't like when other people don't answer the actual question being asked?

Yeah, I guess you're rubbing off on me :p

Boronathan - this is rather tedious. Not to mention - we both are pulling focus from the actual discussion which is a waste of everyone's time. So feel free to respond. Or don't. But I won't be engaging again. Anything beyond what we've already said is forum fodder.

Have a great rest of the weekend.

I agree, it's completely tedious reading your defense of the indefensible. I'll say it again: There's NOTHING wrong with supporting Samsung or supporting Apple. But to come here and play the "I'm tech agnostic and don't care" card, but then post only anti-apple sentiment doesn't make sense. Again, I don't know if you're anti-apple, but you sure as heck come off that way. And I know I'm not the only one who sees that or has commented on it.

Like I said, when you claim to not be anti-apple, it is similar to LTD saying he's not pro-apple. Tough one to swallow.
 

SirLance99

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2011
385
36
Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Uh Oh. What's Wrong With this Picture?

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php

_The foreman told a court representative that the jurors had reached a decision without needing the instructions._

_If this jury thought they knew the right result without instructions, and if they hurried so much they made glaring mistakes, and they did, and all in Apple's favor, something isn't right in this picture. As the legal blog, Above the Law expressed it:

Here’s the thing, ladies and gentlemen of the Apple v. Samsung jury: It would take me more than three days to understand all the terms in the verdict! Much less come to a legally binding decision on all of these separate issues. Did you guys just flip a coin?

If it would take a lawyer three days to make sure he understood the terms in the form, how did the jury not need the time to do the same? There were 700 questions, remember, and one thing is plain, that the jury didn't take the time to avoid inconsistencies, one of which resulted in the jury casually throwing numbers around, like $2 million dollars for a nonfringement.

Come on. This is farce._
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
I lied. One more post.

You missed the part where I never stated my opinion of the court case in this thread. I merely stated that the posts on this thread and others make it clear that the outcome hasn't affected their perspective/opinion. I never said how it affected my personal opinion. Just like you kept insisting that I was playing some semantics game in this thread which I wasn't. Just because you keep typing it doesn't make it true.

It's tiresome for "you" for me to defend the fact that I've never said the things you've accused me of in this thread? Again IN THIS THREAD.

As for the whole anti-Apple thing - that's tiresome too. People will read into posts and commentary what they want based on how they feel. I've already stated the reasons why some may perceive what I post as anti-Apple. It's really not my problem if they accept my explanation or not. It's theirs.

And with that - I'm off to enjoy the rest of my Sunday with my daughter. It'a gorgeous day out here in NYC and I plan on making the most of it. Have a great one.



Not at all. You seemed to imply that two people being labeled multiple is hyperbole. It's not. Its the dictionary definition of the word. No hyperbole or semantics involved.



That's not my point. You stated that if you disagree with a jury verdict, that doesn't make your opinion wrong. Yes. It does. Patents are meant to be challenged, they were challenged and they were upheld. To continue to insist that "IMO the jury is wrong" amounts to arguing that your opinion is not wrong just because it's your opinion. Sure you're entitled to whatever opinion you want but your argument is essentially "I don't care what the courts, judges or juries say. I'm not going to change my opinion no matter what".



Yeah, I guess you're rubbing off on me :p



I agree, it's completely tedious reading your defense of the indefensible. I'll say it again: There's NOTHING wrong with supporting Samsung or supporting Apple. But to come here and play the "I'm tech agnostic and don't care" card, but then post only anti-apple sentiment doesn't make sense. Again, I don't know if you're anti-apple, but you sure as heck come off that way. And I know I'm not the only one who sees that or has commented on it.

Like I said, when you claim to not be anti-apple, it is similar to LTD saying he's not pro-apple. Tough one to swallow.
 

boronathan

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2012
326
0
I lied. One more post.

You missed the part where I never stated my opinion of the court case in this thread. I merely stated that the posts on this thread and others make it clear that the outcome hasn't affected their perspective/opinion. I never said how it affected my personal opinion. Just like you kept insisting that I was playing some semantics game in this thread which I wasn't. Just because you keep typing it doesn't make it true.

So how did it affect your personal opinion? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that it didn't, sam.

It's tiresome for "you" for me to defend the fact that I've never said the things you've accused me of in this thread? Again IN THIS THREAD.

What you say or don't say in this thread, doesn't invalidate what you've already said before. What's your game here? We should not remember anything else you've ever posted because you didn't post it in this thread?

As for the whole anti-Apple thing - that's tiresome too. People will read into posts and commentary what they want based on how they feel. I've already stated the reasons why some may perceive what I post as anti-Apple. It's really not my problem if they accept my explanation or not. It's theirs.

Yes, i know you don't care what they think.

Second, my comment was a tongue in cheek statement about how you're perceived here. You took it to a whole other level. It was a joke, which you knew because you commented on it being a joke, but you still got all defensive.

You come across as anti Apple. Whether you are or not, i don't care (lol), but you come across that way. You've admitted you play devils advocate, so not sure why you are surprised that people read into your posts.

And with that - I'm off to enjoy the rest of my Sunday with my daughter. It'a gorgeous day out here in NYC and I plan on making the most of it. Have a great one.

Yes, it is a beautiful day in nyc. Enjoy it.
 

G4DP

macrumors 65816
Mar 28, 2007
1,451
3
Despite either side of the argument.

It simply comes down to a few things.

Firstly Apple think it's general consumer is thick and stupid. Someone who cannot distinguish between the iPhone and another mobile.

Secondly, they are getting scared of the competition. Why innovate when you can sue.

For all those that say they do innovate. No they don't The component manufacturers do all the R&D. All Apple do is come up with the initial idea.

This did not need to go to court. It should have been settled like men in the board room.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
What consumer products were being sold using pinch to zoom? And if was in use a long long time before the iPhone how come it was not used in mobile phones prior to the iPhone?



Consumer product is not the requirement for protection. In the industry pinch to zoom has been used since the 80s and was a obvious solution. kdarling who has been working in that industry since then has pointed that out more than once on these boards.
 
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