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scottsjack

macrumors 68000
Aug 25, 2010
1,906
311
Arizona
Tim, that is definitely the right course to take. Second only to the threat of Islam is the threat of the government, especially the USA, Russia and China. Thanks for taking the high road.
 

echo44

macrumors 6502
Jan 21, 2008
368
145
Ok so I am a scientist.
Turns out the CIA has a "possible terrorist " in custody who may have info on a future plot.
I have developed a new technology that could possibly read the thoughts of people and extract all information from their brain unwillingly. I haven't implemented the technology even though i may be able to. The reason being I am afraid it may be used with bad intent. Now the CIA says "make the machine we only need it for this one special case."

PS
I have no problem with the government listening in on phone conversations with a proper warrant but this is not what we are talking about. We are talking about creating a security breach into all iPhone users which would not just give access to the users communications but all of their data. We live in a different world than just 10 years ago our whole lives are stored on these devices. I know on my device I am in the healthcare industry and I access confidential medical records of patients from my device; should there be a way for the government to access that data?
 
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John Mcgregor

Suspended
Aug 21, 2015
1,257
1,485
Newport
CNBC has a poll up on this. 50-50 split. This is no longer just a theoretical debate on privacy and security. And if the media (and politicians) is able to spin this as Apple siding with terrorists then I don't see how Apple wins in the court of public opinion. Is this a hill Tim Cook is willing to die on?
they-may-take-our-lives-but-they-will-never-take-our-freedom.jpg
 

Binarymix

macrumors 65816
Nov 1, 2007
1,121
353
Some people aren't getting the big picture here.

This is about forcing Apple to allow easy access security bypass on anyones phone, at anytime, anywhere, without the owners participation.

Seriously, if the FBI wanted to, they could easily hack the security of this one iPhone, they have the most talented hackers in the world working for them.

This is about setting precedent, and destroying mobile privacy.
 

anim8or

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2006
1,362
9
Scotland, UK
Isnt't comparing the development of Nuclear weapons and extracting data from a terrorist phone a bit too far fetched?

I wasn't comparing extracting data to the development of nuclear weapons, I was comparing the intent of creating nuclear weapons as a safety measure to opening the backdoor of the iPhone as a safety measure (in that the potential data on said device could help provide safety).

In both cases the inventor would regret the decision to invent or develop the technology....

In this case the inventors (Apple, are taking a view prior to development, after which its too late).

The repercussions of the Atom Bomb and Nuclear Weapons development are also 100% comparable to inventing software that can effectively give access to any iPhone if the software can be used for to aid in heinous acts.

Come on, stop being so closed minded!!!
 

DEMinSoCAL

macrumors 601
Sep 27, 2005
4,843
6,903
You keep making ridiculous comments.

So you would have Apple sacrifice everyone's freedom of privacy because you're scared of terrorists? Your fear is the desired response of terrorism.

Just because there are some bad people out there in the world doesn't mean that we should all stop having our privacy.
OR, maybe people should stop keeping "private" data on their smartphone if it's THAT important. Most (but unfortunately not all) people know the internet is not private and anywhere but inside your own house is not private. When I chose an iPhone (or any of my smartphones), knowing that my worthless texts and pictures were secure was not a deciding factor. I don't run out and buy an iPhone knowing that it's so safe, the government can't even access it. Now, there are those who do, but then, do they have something to hide in the first place? This type of thing only helps the criminals and terrorists.

I'm on the fence about this topic because there are good arguments on both sides. CmdrLaForge, on the first page, made a good point. Why not hand Apple the phone, and let their engineers either unlock it or take the data off, and hand the FBI back either an unlocked phone, or a locked phone and the data requested by the FBI. No harm, no foul to humanity. If the information could keep America safe, and there are options other than a brick wall Tim Cook, then why not?
 
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bingeciren

macrumors 65816
Sep 6, 2011
1,069
1,009
If, for some reason, I was trying to hide information, I would deinetly NOT use any piece of technology, a piece of paper can be burned / eaten much faster, better yet spoken words , anyone could have said that, and you can't proove anything :D
True enough. I also would use pigeons to communicate :)
 
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tardman91

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2009
1,137
344
Tampa Area, FL
On one hand I want to say "Good for you, Apple." On the other I feel like terrorists shouldn't enjoy the same rights as ordinary Americans.
 

jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,510
6,206
Oklahoma
What if they kill the dead guy again though?
Needs more 'Merica.

OR, maybe people should stop keeping "private" data on their smartphone if it's THAT important. Most (but unfortunately not all) people know the internet is not private and anywhere but inside your own house is not private. When I chose an iPhone (or any of my smartphones), knowing that my worthless texts and pictures were secure was not a deciding factor. I don't run out and buy an iPhone knowing that it's so safe, the government can't even access it. Now, there are those who do, but then, do they have something to hide in the first place? This type of thing only helps the criminals and terrorists.

I'm on the fence about this topic because there are good arguments on both sides. CmdrLaForge, on the first page, made a good point. Why not hand Apple the phone, and let their engineers either unlock it or take the data off, and hand the FBI back either an unlocked phone, or a locked phone and the data requested by the FBI. No harm, no foul to humanity. If the information could keep America safe, and there are options other than a brick wall Tim Cook, then why not?
If Apple shows it has such tools, it can be legally compelled to give such tools to the FBI. It's not gonna happen.
 
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rdlink

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2007
3,226
2,435
Out of the Reach of the FBI
Sorry Tim , I think you draw the wrong line. Supporting terrorism is just plain wrong. Any righteous person has nothing to hide from the government...

Any "righteous person has nothing to hide from the government" is your best argument? Are you effing kidding me? You're actually serious with a statement like that?

What color is the sky on your planet?

Excuse me, but I am a "righteous person," whatever that means, and I have plenty to "hide from the government."

Here's a tangible example of your government's pure and well-intentioned motivations and actions. I find it chilling that you would support the right of a government to have nearly unfettered access to "non-righteous" peoples' information when that same government, not so long ago would have put a target on Tim Cook's back merely for his sexuality:

http://outhistory.org/items/show/1425
 
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jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,510
6,206
Oklahoma
If the photos, emails, documents, etc. on that device can potentially create another 9/11 (because terrorist can use the backdoor to get info from key personnel's stolen phone), wouldn't you want law enforcement to prevent it?
The thing is, on multiple occasions, including in Paris, authorities had access to unencrypted communications beforehand and failed to stop anything.

Hell, they couldn't even stop Columbine.
 

hybroid

macrumors regular
Aug 12, 2010
180
433
I'm on the fence about this topic because there are good arguments on both sides. CmdrLaForge, on the first page, made a good point. Why not hand Apple the phone, and let their engineers either unlock it or take the data off, and hand the FBI back either an unlocked phone, or a locked phone and the data requested by the FBI. No harm, no foul to humanity. If the information could keep America safe, and there are options other than a brick wall Tim Cook, then why not?

Because that's not how it works. If Apple create a way to do this, they'll want the tool itself and make sure they get it. Also, this isn't a one-phone only case, it sets a dangerous precedent for all future requests.
 
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jlseattle

Cancelled
Jan 9, 2007
501
356
Seattle WA
I side with Tim. The fear mongering that is going on is amazing. People are so willing so quickly to give up rights their ancestors fought so hard for because of fear. We need to fight for our rights. Every american, every world citizen should be interested and fighting to have their rights protected. If that is humanitarian, civil, personal... You start eroding any of those rights and we're on a slippery slope towards the things Orwell wrote about.
 

DEMinSoCAL

macrumors 601
Sep 27, 2005
4,843
6,903
Needs more 'Merica.


If Apple shows it has such tools, it can be legally compelled to give such tools to the FBI. It's not gonna happen.
OR, would require a warrant from a judge in order to have a phone unlocked. Just like now, we have warrants for search and seizure against suspected criminals. Should those be outlawed also, because it invades the privacy of the suspected criminal?
 
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jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,510
6,206
Oklahoma
OR, would require a warrant from a judge in order to have a phone unlocked. Just like now, we have warrants for search and seizure against suspected criminals. Should those be outlawed also, because it invades the privacy of the suspected criminal?
You don't get it. Fair enough.

The FBI can ask a court to make Apple give this hypothetical unlocking tool which they don't have to the FBI. After that, well, we know the government totally isn't interested in surveilling everyday Americans, right?

Oh, wait. It is.
 
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