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Razeus

macrumors 603
Jul 11, 2008
5,348
2,030
Even if the African American is qualified, when choosing between the AA and a Caucasian, the Caucasian has a higher probability of getting the job. This is fact. This is what the issue is that the black community is dealing with. Even with education, proper speech, manners, and great work ethic, it's a battle to get a job. Trust me.
 

aerok

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2011
1,491
139
You mean these quotas ... in Canada?

Is Apple even in Canada?

Only stores

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Go stalk someone else, guy. Nobody agrees with you on this one.

I usually agree with him.

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Even if the African American is qualified, when choosing between the AA and a Caucasian, the Caucasian has a higher probability of getting the job. This is fact. This is what the issue is that the black community is dealing with. Even with education, proper speech, manners, and great work ethic, it's a battle to get a job. Trust me.

Same, as an ethnic minority, I had to legally change my first name to an English sounding one to get even considered for interviews.
 

MacbookSwitcher

macrumors 6502
Mar 13, 2007
299
1
Steve Jobs would not have spent time on political shenanigans. He spent all of his time and energy on making great products.

This is further evidence that Apple is not in as capable hands as it has been, and will eventually suffer as a result.
 

enzo thecat

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2010
311
151
Midwest USA
Hmm...



Pot. Kettle. BLACK. Pun both intended and not intended.

You may want to take a look in the mirror.

BL.

And you're the first one to insult members by insinuating they are racist. Nice. Its getting so friggin old. Can't you tolerate a different viewpoint that doesnt fit perfectly into YOUR idea of what is acceptable or tolerable?
 

noodlemanc

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2010
208
18
Australasia
This stuff does not make any sense. I mean, about workplace diversity.

Workplace diversity depends on who wants to go work there. For example, if more women would like to work at Apple, no doubt Apple will very much welcome them! If less women want to work at Apple, so be it!

The same goes for any other business. Not sure why businesses have to be "targeted" by anyone for not having the ultimate "workplace diversity".

So much for Martin Luther's dream of a colourblind society, judging a man not by the colour of his skin but by the content of his character, and all that...
 

usarioclave

macrumors 65816
Sep 26, 2003
1,447
1,506
Even if the African American is qualified, when choosing between the AA and a Caucasian, the Caucasian has a higher probability of getting the job. This is fact. This is what the issue is that the black community is dealing with. Even with education, proper speech, manners, and great work ethic, it's a battle to get a job. Trust me.

I've worked at places that have hired "disadvantaged groups" over other, non-disadvantaged groups. I guess it depends on where you live.
 

dannyyankou

macrumors G5
Mar 2, 2012
13,096
28,200
Westchester, NY
Why do percentages matter? You are never going to have equal numbers across the board... if anyone strived for that, they already lost focus on their business, and it would fall apart. If you focus on race, instead of integrity of the individual, your business will fail.

I'm not saying percentages should be equal. But 14.2% of Americans are black and I think that's a realistic percentage to strive for in a company.
 

Lucky736

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2004
996
665
US
Steve Jobs would not have spent time on political shenanigans. He spent all of his time and energy on making great products.

This is further evidence that Apple is not in as capable hands as it has been, and will eventually suffer as a result.

The guy who should have been at the helm, and was the "chosen one," went on to do great things and continues to do so. Cook was never first choice however he was in the conversation and ended up being the successor. The "chosen one" had every bit of the sales and engineering prowess that Jobs and Wozniak displayed from the start through today. It's a shame he got away. Instead of talking about technology we have articles like this, exactly the reason Jobs very seldom took positions on issues like the aforementioned, at least publicly.
 
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jmpage2

macrumors 68040
Sep 14, 2007
3,226
572
Even if the African American is qualified, when choosing between the AA and a Caucasian, the Caucasian has a higher probability of getting the job. This is fact. This is what the issue is that the black community is dealing with. Even with education, proper speech, manners, and great work ethic, it's a battle to get a job. Trust me.

No, I don't trust you because you don't seem to have a handle on all of the facts.

An Asian also has a lower chance of being hired than a caucasian. A hispanic also has a lower chance of being hired than a caucasian. However it is primarily in the african american community that we see continued blame of racism as the cause for socio-economic problems affecting blacks.

How is it that Asians or Hispanics also have a harder time getting a job and yet are doing better economically year after year when the majority of the US is still white? It's because they are willing to work harder for the same position in order to prove themselves. While this might not be "right" it's what they are doing and it is working.

Too many African Americans (and where the hell does that term even come from, am I a Northern European American because my ancestors hail from northern Europe?) are only interested in blaming others for their problems.

When African Americans in larger numbers start to acknowledge that their own actions and personal responsibility have as much or more of an impact on their ability to succeed than their skin color then we will see real progress.

Sidenote # 1. First generation black immigrants (newly arrived black immigrants from Africa, Haiti, Cuba, etc) are doing FAR better than their African American counterparts. Why is that exactly when they usually have similar or lower education and similar skin pigment (and often speak English as a 2nd language)?

Sidenote #2. African Americans were gaining socio-economic ground tremendously in the US throughout the 40's, 50's and 60's despite institutionalized racism in large parts of the country. It was with the introduction of the modern US welfare system that the African American family was destroyed. Incentivizing people to have no work ethic to better themselves, incentivizing them to have children out of wedlock that they can't support because the state will provide support, creating a "blame the man" culture.... that's what has destroyed the black family... not white racism.
 
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kds1

Suspended
Feb 17, 2013
820
324
New York, New York
I'm not saying percentages should be equal. But 14.2% of Americans are black and I think that's a realistic percentage to strive for in a company.

This whole idea that companies, universities etc. need to be percentage wise the same as the percentage breakdown racially of the country is so abjectly absurd. It's really ludicrous.
 

DonJudgeMe

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2014
123
2
Arizona
I'm not saying percentages should be equal. But 14.2% of Americans are black and I think that's a realistic percentage to strive for in a company.

Why? What if there was an asian//white/indian/native that had better qualifications for the job and hiring them offset the numbers? Do we close the door on the 'better' employees to make a percentage? Where do you draw the line?
 

noodlemanc

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2010
208
18
Australasia
Apple isn't so bad. 55% are white, which is lower than the total population. Blacks make up 7%, which is still low but better than most companies (Microsoft is 3.5% black).

So in order to accurately represent all races Apple needs to hire more blacks, more whites as well and less asians/indians.
 

kds1

Suspended
Feb 17, 2013
820
324
New York, New York
Sidenote #2. African Americans were gaining socio-economic ground tremendously in the US throughout the 40's, 50's and 60's despite institutionalized racism in large parts of the country. It was with the introduction of the modern US welfare system that the African American family was destroyed. Incentivizing people to have no work ethic to better themselves, incentivizing them to have children out of wedlock that they can't support because the state will provide support, creating a "blame the man" culture.... that's what has destroyed the black family... not white racism.

Errr, wasn't the modern welfare system developed during/after the Great Depression? You know, THE NEW DEAL and all that under FDR (Roosevelt)? It didn't happen after the 60's. You might want to check your history before making such statements. Just saying.
 

noodlemanc

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2010
208
18
Australasia
Sidenote #2. African Americans were gaining socio-economic ground tremendously in the US throughout the 40's, 50's and 60's despite institutionalized racism in large parts of the country. It was with the introduction of the modern US welfare system that the African American family was destroyed. Incentivizing people to have no work ethic to better themselves, incentivizing them to have children out of wedlock that they can't support because the state will provide support, creating a "blame the man" culture.... that's what has destroyed the black family... not white racism.

This. It's amazing how blacks actually had more jobs and their families stayed together more back when they was WAAAY more racism than today... Kinda defeats the argument that the only reason why the black community as a whole is doing so badly is because of white racism.
 

dannyyankou

macrumors G5
Mar 2, 2012
13,096
28,200
Westchester, NY
This whole idea that companies, universities etc. need to be percentage wise the same as the percentage breakdown racially of the country is so abjectly absurd. It's really ludicrous.

And I agree to an extent. For example, Asians make up the second highest percentage of Apple's workers. Asians are known to be very good with technology and electronics. But there are cases in other companies where a black man is more qualified than a white man and the white man gets the job. It really depends on a case by case basis.

And just to clear something up, I don't see anything wrong with the employment numbers from Apple. Skills vary between different ethnicities (like black people playing basketball and people from African countries running).
 
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noodlemanc

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2010
208
18
Australasia
Errr, wasn't the modern welfare system developed during/after the Great Depression? You know, THE NEW DEAL and all that under FDR (Roosevelt)? It didn't happen after the 60's. You might want to check your history before making such statements. Just saying.

I think he's referring to the Great Society programs, which started in the 1960s with the goal of eliminating poverty and racial injustice.
 

Solomani

macrumors 601
Sep 25, 2012
4,785
10,477
Slapfish, North Carolina
Jesse has been making his rounds in Silicon Valley lately….

P.S. — just remembered that Microsoft is technically not located in SV.
 

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avanpelt

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
2,956
3,877
We they discussing instituting quotas?

I must have missed that part of the story.

Listen to Jesse Jackson talk for more than five minutes (which I have) and it becomes clear to just about anyone that he is in favor of having more black folks employed period -- regardless of whether or not those black folks are actually fit for the positions they hold. He's all about black "fairness" and black supremacy which, according to Jesse Jackson, means that black folks should have more and better opportunities in life than anyone else -- even if there are people from other ethnic backgrounds who are more qualified for the job. And if a black person gets fired and they call Jesse Jackson, he inevitably paints the picture that they were fired because of their race because no one ever got fired because they simply couldn't do the job well, right, Jesse?

Also, listen to Jesse Jackson for more than five minutes and it becomes clear to just about anyone that Jesse Jackson is most concerned about himself and perpetuating a "race war" over and above the people he claims to be championing. If we suddenly lived in a utopian society and there was no racism, Jesse Jackson would be out of a job -- and he fears the prospect of being out of job just as much as any politician does. So every so often, he has to show up to fan the flames to keep the "race war" going.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,936
17,428
And you're the first one to insult members by insinuating they are racist. Nice. Its getting so friggin old. Can't you tolerate a different viewpoint that doesnt fit perfectly into YOUR idea of what is acceptable or tolerable?

And what, pray tell, is my idea of what is acceptable or tolerable? Please enlighten me.

BL.
 

fedup flyer

macrumors regular
Jan 18, 2008
241
53
Welcome to the new world of Social Justice,
Where one is judged by the color of their skin instead of the content of their character.
 
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