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Coleman2010

macrumors 68000
Oct 9, 2010
1,923
167
NYC
This stuff does not make any sense. I mean, about workplace diversity.

Workplace diversity depends on who wants to go work there. For example, if more women would like to work at Apple, no doubt Apple will very much welcome them! If less women want to work at Apple, so be it!

The same goes for any other business. Not sure why businesses have to be "targeted" by anyone for not having the ultimate "workplace diversity".

Humans hire people not a machine that only looks at candidate's qualifications. Humans have biases and tend to higher people of a gender or race they identify and are comfortable with. That's how you end up with a business that is 90% male and White. Diversity initiatives are to combat implicit bias.
 

jmpage2

macrumors 68040
Sep 14, 2007
3,228
573
Errr, wasn't the modern welfare system developed during/after the Great Depression? You know, THE NEW DEAL and all that under FDR (Roosevelt)? It didn't happen after the 60's. You might want to check your history before making such statements. Just saying.

Nope. Following the great depression the "New Deal" was created which did start the modern welfare movement primarily with the creation of the social security safety net (for people unwilling to plan for their own retirement) and unemployment benefits.

In 1964 Johnson dramatically expanded the scope of Welfare by promoting and then signing into law the Economic Opportunity Act among many other actions related to his famous War on Poverty.

In effect, for the first time, the belief that people truly could not care for themselves was codified into law and policy and that it was up to the government to step in and provide for people who could not or would not do so via vouchers, discounted housing, and direct payments.

While Johnson's heart was in the right place, it's legitimately debatable how effective these programs have been as they have been tweaked, expanded or cutback over the past 50 years.

I think most Americans (then and now) are in favor of some kind of "safety net" for people that are in dire need, especially for children.

However, many Americans are increasingly appalled with what the "necessities" are that are being handed out at the poverty line (free gas, free cable, free internet, free cell phone, free or heavily subsidized apartment, etc) in the name of "but think of the children". When cash payments go up for each child born we get the result we now have... which is an entire group of people, of many different colors who are content to live off of the government instead of taking care of themselves.

----------

I think he's referring to the Great Society programs, which started in the 1960s with the goal of eliminating poverty and racial injustice.

Correct...
 

kds1

Suspended
Feb 17, 2013
820
324
New York, New York
Nope. Following the great depression the "New Deal" was created which did start the modern welfare movement primarily with the creation of the social security safety net (for people unwilling to plan for their own retirement) and unemployment benefits.

Wow you are really something else. I'd say what that something else is, but I'd probably get in trouble with a moderator.
 

jmpage2

macrumors 68040
Sep 14, 2007
3,228
573
Wow you are really something else. I'd say what that something else is, but I'd probably get in trouble with a moderator.

So you're saying you don't like facts that make you feel bad?
 

Tough Guy

macrumors regular
Jun 2, 2014
144
2
Humans hire people not a machine that only looks at candidate's qualifications. Humans have biases and tend to higher people of a gender or race they identify and are comfortable with. That's how you end up with a business that is 90% male and White. Diversity initiatives are to combat implicit bias.

Yes, because white males only succeed due to implicit bias.

And where did you pull those numbers from, bud? Sounds like you have some pretty serious bias. Either that, or you simply can't read.

Apple's hiring practices contradict everything you wrote.
 

giantfan1224

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
870
1,115
Wow you are really something else. I'd say what that something else is, but I'd probably get in trouble with a moderator.

If you disagree with him, tell us why. Not sure why you think you have to resort to being nasty to do so.
 

CFreymarc

Suspended
Sep 4, 2009
3,969
1,149
I'm all for diversity, I really am. As Apple says, inclusion inspires innovation.

But if someone less qualified who is a minority gets a job instead of a more qualified white male for the sake of improving diversity numbers, that's disappointing and questionable. Introducing (further?) discrimination into the hiring process for pretty percentages fixes nothing, and it ultimately makes a worse Apple, though we'd likely never be able to tell.

View everyone, regardless of gender, race, gender identity, sexuality, religion, age, etc., equally, and let the most qualified candidate win. Because none of it should matter anyway.

I have seen Affirmative Action programs destroy high tech companies and research labs. Even some programs where military veterans were given preference to hire compromised company performance.

While it has never been confirmed, many believe that affirmative action programs in some major tech firms had them loose their edge passing over more qualified people based on their "quota slot."

I hope that closed door meeting between Tim and Jessie was not anything substantial with only lip service resulting.
 

Tough Guy

macrumors regular
Jun 2, 2014
144
2
I have seen Affirmative Action programs destroy high tech companies and research labs. Even some programs where military veterans were given preference to hire compromised company performance.

While it has never been confirmed, many believe that affirmative action programs in some major tech firms had them loose their edge passing over more qualified people based on their "quota slot."

I hope that closed door meeting between Tim and Jessie was not anything substantial with only lip service resulting.

Unfortunately, I think Cook doesn't have the backbone or the intelligence to stand up to people like Jackson and Sharpton. I very much expect a beefed up "diversity" program in Apple's future.

Hopefully they can get the number of whites down from 55% to 10% or lower. And maybe one day they can lower it to 0%. That's true diversity!
 

jmpage2

macrumors 68040
Sep 14, 2007
3,228
573
Unfortunately, I think Cook doesn't have the backbone or the intelligence to stand up to people like Jackson and Sharpton. I very much expect a beefed up "diversity" program in Apple's future.

Hopefully they can get the number of whites down from 55% to 10% or lower. And maybe one day they can lower it to 0%. That's true diversity!

Based on past history Jackson more than likely hit Cook up for some $$. Maybe some free Apple bling also that Jackson can sprinkle around to boost his popularity.

The fact that neither Jackson nor Sharpton have ever apologized for the many people who have been hurt or maligned by them WRONGFULLY (proven beyond a shadow of a doubt) with their baseless accusations and race baiting have made them completely toxic in my opinion. I'm rather disgusted that Cook is entertaining him but says a lot about his priorities as CEO.
 

unibility

macrumors 6502a
Apr 6, 2012
629
634
Did you bother to read the article? 55% White. And Jesse Jackson is a Civil Rights "leader" in name only. He is simply a race baiter and uses situations and circumstances to promote himself and increase his wealth.

normanfox... CAN YOU FEEL THE BURN!!! :mad::mad::mad:
 

steve333

macrumors 65816
Dec 12, 2008
1,285
917
Hey, Tim, how about putting out better hardware and an OS that doesn't suck balls instead of all this political nonsense that puts off more people than it attracts?
 

CFreymarc

Suspended
Sep 4, 2009
3,969
1,149
Humans hire people not a machine that only looks at candidate's qualifications. Humans have biases and tend to higher people of a gender or race they identify and are comfortable with. That's how you end up with a business that is 90% male and White. Diversity initiatives are to combat implicit bias.

What needs to change is not the hiring practice of these companies but the reason why specific minority groups are in a position of constant struggle.

We have two generations of Affirmative Action and while there have been some improvement, the wrong target is chosen.

IMO, it is not the "rich white man keeping the minority down." The real cause is the "rich minority man cashing in on their own people being down" who are constantly victimizing the minority group to gain attention and status. If real equality was achieved, these minority leaders would be moot and out of a job.

A good example of this is the integration of eastern and southern European minorities into American life over the past fifty years. While it may seem ludicrous now, there was a time that anyone without and Anglo-Saxon heritage was a second class citizen. German, Italians, Spaniards, Polish and even Russians where discriminated against.

Did these ethnic groups create a "action league" and were roused up in a constant state or riot and victims? No, they got their work ethic in, produced, started their own businesses and prospered.

What really gets me is that when someone from a recent minority starts to do well, people from their own ethnic group start attacking them because the are "too white" and "forgot who you are."

Unlike most of the world, America's strength is constant challenge of their leaders with very little recourse making one a political prisoner. The latest fascist tactic as been to scream "racist!" whenever a minority group expresses a policy going against the tradition of the American republic.

This too shall pass and freedom will ring on.
 

CFreymarc

Suspended
Sep 4, 2009
3,969
1,149
Unfortunately, I think Cook doesn't have the backbone or the intelligence to stand up to people like Jackson and Sharpton. I very much expect a beefed up "diversity" program in Apple's future.

Hopefully they can get the number of whites down from 55% to 10% or lower. And maybe one day they can lower it to 0%. That's true diversity!

Keep in mind that the "ghost of Steve" is still there. Was told Steve Jobs had a history of beating down and outright firing anyone advocating diversity quotas inside Apple.

To continue, story has it that after Steve was out of Apple, he saw some of the extreme liberal crowd outright abandon him. He spend quite some time on the CMU campus (quite a mix of politics with right and left leans considering what part of campus you were on; Woz's son went to CMU) to ground himself. While there, Steve played around with the Mach Kernel that became NeXT OS then Mac OS X and iOS.

While he is dead, he is not forgotten and I'm sure somewhere in the alleged company guides he wrote before his death, this is mentioned.

My take is Tim just did lip service and then had Apple Legal give Jessie and his crew a velvet glove out the door.
 

orioncrystalice

macrumors 6502
Jan 21, 2014
321
117
as we all know, :apple: purposefully, cruelly excludes all of the exceedingly qualified non-Caucasions from their workforce, because Jesus.

In order to help correct this grave error, let us first donate 25% of our earnings in addition to our taxes to the public school system, which has done a fantastic job over the past few decades, of inspiring and educating students of all walks of life, so much that colleges and private institutions of learning simply pale in comparison. Secondly, we must beg white men harder than ever before for general inclusiveness, and for these white Apple men to abandon their exclusion policy - we must be earnest and persistent in these prayers towards the white god and their government, for these goals to be accomplished.
 

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
998
41,619
Criminal Mexi Midget
as we all know, :apple: purposefully, cruelly excludes all of the exceedingly qualified non-Caucasions from their workforce, because Jesus.

In order to help correct this grave error, let us first donate 25% of our earnings in addition to our taxes to the public school system, which has done a fantastic job over the past few decades, of inspiring and educating students of all walks of life, so much that colleges and private institutions of learning simply pale in comparison. Secondly, we must beg white men harder than ever before for general inclusiveness, and for these white Apple men to abandon their exclusion policy - we must be earnest and persistent in these prayers towards the white god and their government, for these goals to be accomplished.

1238512492_the-happening-wahlberg.gif


sarcasm? can't tell
 

Kaibelf

Suspended
Apr 29, 2009
2,445
7,444
Silicon Valley, CA
I'm not saying percentages should be equal. But 14.2% of Americans are black and I think that's a realistic percentage to strive for in a company.

That's wonderful, in a perfect world where all races proportionally study computer science. That's like saying half of all software engineers should be women, even though a proportional amount of women aren't interested in that as a career.

----------

Hey, Tim, how about putting out better hardware and an OS that doesn't suck balls instead of all this political nonsense that puts off more people than it attracts?

The sales figures disagree with you. Same with customer satisfaction surveys.
 

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
998
41,619
Criminal Mexi Midget
That's wonderful, in a perfect world where all races proportionally study computer science. That's like saying half of all software engineers should be women, even though a proportional amount of women aren't interested in that as a career.

nice post, quotas are wrong, only the qualified should be hired.
 

Mtmspa

Suspended
May 13, 2013
1,006
784
Jackson and Sharpton only care about lining their pockets. IF they cared about blacks, they would live in the ghettos of NY and Chicago where blacks kill each other daily.

Both are Revs. Jackson is an adulter with a bastard kid and Sharpton is a tax cheating racebaiter.

Cook shouldn't waste his time with these low lifes.
 

steve333

macrumors 65816
Dec 12, 2008
1,285
917
Let's see the percentage of Apple employees that are black, then those complaining about Cook meeting Jackson will keep quite


Apple isn't exactly a portrait for employee diversity

Maybe there aren't more qualified blacks to hire, ever think of that?
You're welcome
 

Coleman2010

macrumors 68000
Oct 9, 2010
1,923
167
NYC
Humans hire people not a machine that only looks at candidate's qualifications. Humans have biases and tend to higher people of a gender or race they identify and are comfortable with. That's how you end up with a business that is 90% male and White. Diversity initiatives are to combat implicit bias.
Yes, because white males only succeed due to implicit bias.

And where did you pull those numbers from, bud? Sounds like you have some pretty serious bias. Either that, or you simply can't read.

Apple's hiring practices contradict everything you wrote.
I was not quoting Apple's diversity. I was speaking in general and using the number as an example.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,937
17,430
Welcome to the new world of Social Justice,
Where one is judged by the color of their skin instead of the content of their character.

Yes.. and the character of a lot of people is currently on display in this thread.. with some of them rather shocking and sad.

With that, I'm bowing out of this thread, because the way it's headed, it will be easier to jump barefoot off a 6ft. step ladder into a 5-gallon bucket of porcupines.

Have fun everyone, and we'll see this thread in the /wasteland

BL.
 
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