15" MacBook Pro (SB) Thermal application/guide

Hey guys, I ended up recording my process of doing the thermal paste today. I spliced a bunch of it together to make it short and to the point. Let me know what you guys think.

I linked/blogged about it. Link to my blog in sig.

Macbook Pro 2011 thermal paste tutorial/guide for removal of logic board and heatsink

aznguyen316 said:

Hey guys, I ended up recording my process of doing the thermal paste today. I spliced a bunch of it together to make it short and to the point. Let me know what you guys think.

I linked/blogged about it. Link to my blog in sig.

Macbook Pro 2011 thermal paste tutorial/guide for removal of logic board and heatsink

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good video. did you get any lower temps ?

P.

joecool99 said:

good video. did you get any lower temps ?

P.

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Yeah looking good. I played some SC2 for two hours, fans still on full blast but as I ctrl-M in and out I was checking temps saw 84-86C with a laptop cooler, so not bad. Beats 88C on load. Also had skype VOIP going on, not video.

Also fan behavior has changed some, they don't turn on as quickly. The CPU will warm up a bit more before the fans want to crank up which is nice. Forgot to check the GPU temps.

On idle on integrated, idling around 38C just general web browsing.

dnkbro said:

That is a ridiculous amount of thermal paste on your stock unit. WTF was thinking? Why don't they teach the people assembling the computers to not use so much paste? They could cut costs this way and ensure people don't receive units prone to overheating.

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Given the conditions the workers endure, maybe it's their form of revolt?

http://boingboing.net/2010/08/19/foxconns-solution-to.html

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/governmen...ourcing-to-even-cheaper-chinese-peasants/9537
(sorry for the URL; the article mentions other companies that use Foxconn as well)

Thank you very much for this nice guide, as well as compiling tips given in replies!

I was worried about all these ribbon cables and potential clips / locks to undo before removal. I'm now have the courage to give the thermal paste re-application a go.

Actually, I had a Genius do this for me at first. Before, CPU cores reached 100°C under full load* and started to throttle. After his re-application, they max out at 93°C. So the critical thermal limit ("thermal junction" as per Intel) is not reached anymore, but it's still extremely hot and fans spin too often, too loud.

I don't know what thermal paste he used, or whether he applied it the way I asked him to (rice grain proportional to the chip's surface area, letting the heatsink spread the compound "naturally"). Temperatures still aren't satisfactory, I know I can do better myself, and I like knowing the internals of my computers, and how they're assembled. So I just have to give it a try .

alphaod said:

It voids nothing if you don't damage anything; I saw no stickers or coverings that said "Warranty voided if removed/opened."

I even told the Geniuses at my local Apple Store I was going to do it to fix my heating issue. Their response was, "tell us if it fixes it."

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+1. I told my local "Genius" (France, but still) the same thing. Same answer. You can do anything in there, as long as you don't break anything, the warranty isn't voided.

* The stress test: 8 threads, each continually incrementing counters and displaying the number of increments per second. It showed that the CPU throttled as it reported 950k inc/s in the beginning, but as temperature rose, it started to cycle between 700 et 800k inc/s.

Roman2K~ said:

Thank you very much for this nice guide, as well as compiling tips given in replies!

I was worried about all these ribbon cables and potential clips / locks to undo before removal. I'm now have the courage to give the thermal paste re-application a go.

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If you do plan on re-doing it. Give my video a look, posted above.

*edit* thanks for putting it in the OP!

aznguyen316 said:

If you do plan on re-doing it. Give my video a look, posted above.

*edit* thanks for putting it in the OP!

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I certainly will! Thanks for having taken the time to do that and telling me about it .

aznguyen316 said:

Yeah looking good. I played some SC2 for two hours, fans still on full blast but as I ctrl-M in and out I was checking temps saw 84-86C with a laptop cooler, so not bad. Beats 88C on load. Also had skype VOIP going on, not video.

Also fan behavior has changed some, they don't turn on as quickly. The CPU will warm up a bit more before the fans want to crank up which is nice. Forgot to check the GPU temps.

On idle on integrated, idling around 38C just general web browsing.

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that's very good. mine, also 2.3GHz 15" is about 42C idling with integrated GPU. most of the time i use it with external display. idling about 71C.

max. load about 93C

can you comment how thin did you spread it ? also interesting teqnique with the plastic finger.

joecool99 said:

that's very good. mine, also 2.3GHz 15" is about 42C idling with integrated GPU. most of the time i use it with external display. idling about 71C.

max. load about 93C

can you comment how thin did you spread it ? also interesting teqnique with the plastic finger.

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It was pretty thin. I jsut squished down a layer, a lot went on the plastic but as long as the chip was covered slightly I was okay with it. I dunno, 1mm? not very thick. Pretty damn thin.

I have a big question. How do you remove the old thermal paste? I mean.. with what? With paper?

I don't have arctic clean. Can it be used a common 96º alcohol or is it better to clean it with with a paper or so.

Thank you so much!!

pedrofan said:

I have a big question. How do you remove the old thermal paste? I mean.. with what? With paper?

I don't have arctic clean. Can it be used a common 96º alcohol or is it better to clean it with with a paper or so.

Thank you so much!!

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I used a coffee filter - was told that it wouldn't leave tiny bits of paper behind.

BTW, thermal paste is some toxic stuff. How are you guys disposing it?

pedrofan said:

I have a big question. How do you remove the old thermal paste? I mean.. with what? With paper?

I don't have arctic clean. Can it be used a common 96º alcohol or is it better to clean it with with a paper or so.

Thank you so much!!

Click to expand...

i used paper to clean, then rubbing alcohol with cloth to finish.

aznguyen316 said:

It was pretty thin. I jsut squished down a layer, a lot went on the plastic but as long as the chip was covered slightly I was okay with it. I dunno, 1mm? not very thick. Pretty damn thin.

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that must have been a lot thinner. 1mm is pretty thick.

damn, i really don't want to do this for 3rd time...
did you apply it just to the logic board ? or also to the copper ?

ps: also heard about pre-heating the compound so it spreads easier.

@joecool yeah it was less than 1mm lol, it was just a guess. Basically as thin as you can get it but still covering the top. I did not put any on the copper heatsink, only on the part of the CPU/GPU that sticks UP. The rectangle/square parts as seen in my video. Not much else to it. I've had to do this a couple times b/c I'm not always happy with how I feel about the process but I'm cool now =)

aznguyen316 said:

@joecool yeah it was less than 1mm lol, it was just a guess. Basically as thin as you can get it but still covering the top. I did not put any on the copper heatsink, only on the part of the CPU/GPU that sticks UP. The rectangle/square parts as seen in my video. Not much else to it. I've had to do this a couple times b/c I'm not always happy with how I feel about the process but I'm cool now =)

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In all of your attempts, have you tried the rice grain / pea sized drop, but *not* spreading it yourself? That is, letting the heatsink spread the compound itself?

This technique has given me the best results on desktop computers (with waterblocks in watercooled builds as well as regular tower heatsinks but not Direct Heatpipe Touch ones -- they're special).

I'm wondering if it's going to work well on MBPs since the heatpipe is connected to 2 copper bases (CPU and GPU) : I'm concerned as to whether the pressure is going to be even on both bases, thus spreading both drops properly.

Roman2K~ said:

In all of your attempts, have you tried the rice grain / pea sized drop, but *not* spreading it yourself? That is, letting the heatsink spread the compound itself?

This technique has given me the best results on desktop computers (with waterblocks in watercooled builds as well as regular tower heatsinks but not Direct Heatpipe Touch ones -- they're special).

I'm wondering if it's going to work well on MBPs since the heatpipe is connected to 2 copper bases (CPU and GPU) : I'm concerned as to whether the pressure is going to be even on both bases, thus spreading both drops properly.

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The rice grain technique should be OK for the GPU as it is squared, but those new quad cores i7 with integrated graphics are rectangular, not squared, so if you put the rice grain in the middle there would be a lot of surfece not covered when putting the heatsink on it.

If you use that technique, I think you shuld make a line across the longer axis of the chip, not a pea.

pedrofan said:

The rice grain technique should be OK for the GPU as it is squared, but those new quad cores i7 with integrated graphics are rectangular, not squared, so if you put the rice grain in the middle there would be a lot of surfece not covered when putting the heatsink on it.

If you use that technique, I think you shuld make a line across the longer axis of the chip, not a pea.

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Thanks. I will try that. Regardless, before screwing the heatsink back on, I'm planning on checking whether the compound spread properly, cleaning up and re-applying some until I find the best pattern. It's potentially going to waste a good amount of thermal paste but I think it's worth it.

Have you tried the "long line" (CPU) + pea size drop (GPU) yourself? If so, what kind of temperatures and heatsink delta are you getting (compared to the stock application)?

I did the rice grain method with MX-3 because that was so thick and hard to manually spread. And I was uneasy on the rectangular shape so I did the line method on that one. After opening it back up it looked like it did a fine job of spreading but it also looked like I could have used less because I was unsure of the amount to use to make sure the CPU was covered. The GPU was fine b/c it's squared and I had an idea of how much to use.

So I got MX-4 since it spread a lot better and manually spread it so I knew how much I needed to use, any extra came off onto the plastic bag. That's pretty much it.

@aznguyen316
Thanks .

cool video, although not too hot on the music

i was going to undertake this but i decided, after reading this thread, it'd be quite pointless. the hottest my laptop gets from playing Dragon Age II with all the bells and whistles is about 80-85c i think. i check it after playing DA II for 15 minutes and then quickly exiting (i don't know how to minimise on OS X yet)

seems others have far worse temps!

it looks fun tho, and i'm itching to give it a whirl, i love tinkering... but then again i might make it worse.

argh, decisions

I have gone ahead and re-applied the thermal paste on the 4 chips (CPU, GPU, Thunderbolt controller, southbridge).

Before:

GPU heatsink:



Dirty. Nice job, Apple "Geniuses"... (I had them re-apply thermal paste on both the CPU and GPU.)

Southbridge heatsink:



Excess of thermal paste coming out of the edge of the heatsink. Originally, I wasn't planning on re-doing the southbridge or the Thunderbolt controller, but upon seeing such horror, I would'nt have been able to live with myself knowing that such a mess was living underneath my MBP's keyboard.

GPU & CPU:



Nasty. They told me they cleaned up the stock application and re-applied only the necessary amount. Right . Not to mention, the screws were only loosely tightened. They did swap the motherboard for a new one, covered by the first year Apple Care (in order to alleviate my doubt about the CPU coming from a poor batch), so I can't complain about them specifically.

Thunderbolt controller:



Kind of clean, relative to its neighbours, though way too thick and uneven.

Southbridge:

I'm sorry I forgot to take a picture of the southbridge, but it wasn't pretty, as the picture of the corresponding heatsink (above) can attest.

After:

Thunderbolt controller & southbridge:



As documented by somebody early in this thread, their heatsinks are elevated by a good millimeter above the corresponding chips. Thermal paste isn't appropriate in this case. I put thermal pads leftover from an EK waterblock. They fit perfectly underneath the heatsinks: there's a good, tight contact after screwing them back on.

GPU & CPU:



All cleaned up. I found a toothpick to be the perfect tool for removing thermal paste between the tiny elements (transistors?) surrounding the main chip. Precise yet soft wood.

GPU & CPU:



Arctic Cooling MX-2 applied, ready to be spread by the heatsinks. There's a little more than necessary but at least I'm almost certain it spread over the whole surface. Also, the MX-2 is liquid enough that the pressure from the heatsink only leaves the thinnest layer necessary to fill surface imperfections while excess is pushed to the edges (proved over and over after dozens of desktop CPU and GPU heatsink and waterblock un-/mounting).

Results (running on battery, integrated GPU)

Absolute maximum load temperature:
93°C => 88°C
Note: temperature rises to 94°C but only briefly as when when fans reach 6200 RPM, the CPU is cooled town to a stable 88°C. Before, temperature rose to 93-95°C and stayed there.

Idle temperature (no applications loaded, Finder only):
45°C => 37°C

1080P video in VLC:
85°C => ? (not tested yet)

1080P video on YouTube:
85°C => 67°C
Brief initial peak at 76°C tightly controlled by fans speeding up to 2500 RPM for less than a minute.

Average usage (multiple Chrome tabs, paused YouTube videos, iTunes playing, MPlayerX paused):
55-65°C => 45-47°C.

General:
Before the "re-pasting", the top left area of the keyboard was always hot (but still sustainable to the touch). YouTube videos would make it hot the point I couldn't leave my finger on it. Fans rarely spinned at their minimum speed (2000 RPM), and it felt like they were useless.

Fans now stay at 2000 RPM nearly all the time. They did speed up to ˜2500 RPM (barely audible in a silent room) once when the CPU cores reached 85°C until they got it down to 76°C, and proceeded to progressively slow down to 2000 RPM (their minimum, inaudible). I love this behaviour.

The top left area of the keyboard rarely gets hot anymore. Warm sometimes. Slightly warm most of the time. That's because the CPU never gets to stay hot long enough now: fans actually manage to move heat away from the heatsink now.

To me, that was the whole point of this operation. Temperatures aren't that much lower, but the top left area is now cool and I never hear the fans. Exactly what I expected.

Difficulty:

Very easy, actually! aznguyen316's teardown video guide on YouTube was the exact and only instructions I needed to proceed. This video is brilliant, really! Much thanks again to him for this gem, a gift to other MBP 15 2011 owners.

Tools needed:

• Phillips screwdriver
• TX6 Torx screwdriver
• Toothpick (in place of spudger): for both unplugging the various kinds of cables, and cleaning up intricate parts of the chips
• Nailpolish remover
• Coffee filters

Conclusion:

Success! Thrilled with the result. Smooth, easy process (for the most part thanks to aznguyen316's video guide). 100% clean chips. I can only recommend thermal paste clean re-application to all owners of an MBP.

As an added bonus, I now know my MBP inside out. It's not a black box anymore. Apple produce some serious quality products, zero doubts about that. The tight internals just speak for themselves. Sturdy components, neat cable routing, sleek black PCB motherboard with robustly soldered elements. Eye-candy for me . It's a shame that the assembly chain ends with such a poor job at applying thermal paste. Neglected as seemingly irrelevant, but absolutely vital in the end.

Roman! Glad you got around to doing it yourself. It always feels better doing it, plus you'll learn a thing or two eh? Glad my video was of help, I really appreciate the shout out haha. Anyway, I'm dissappointed at what Apple's repaste job. Pretty shoddy and terrible! I didn't even bother with teh southbridge but that's kind of interesting. Great pictures. So on the southbridge and thunderbolt, was that stock thermal pads you used or did you apply those yourselves. At least they look like pads?

Your results closely mirror what my results were. 88C is basically my average high, 90C for a second before fans kick in all the way and never higher than 88C. From there it only gets cooler as the fans keep running on blast. I played more SC2 tonight and it goes up ti 86C-88C and then after running at 6000RPM it'll cool it to 80C or so and run at 5500RPM.