AMD Radeon HD 6000M-series Released - GPUs for Next Gen iMac?

[Hellhammer]

Today, AMD rolled out 6000M series along with Brazos APUs. TDPs are unknown which makes speculation harder but following Apple's GPU offerings in the past, we'll probably see 6950M in high-end and 6750M or 6770M in mid-level iMac.

6950M comes with 960 shaders compared to 800 shaders found in 5850M. Cores will run at 580MHz which is 45MHz slower than in 5850M, and memory also runs a tad slower, 900MHz compared to 1000MHz in 5850M. However, the biggest upgrade is 256-bit memory bus width which will help when dealing with high resolutions such as 2560x1440 used by 27" iMac. In terms of raw performance, 6950M seems to offer 1.1TFLOPs while 5850M offers 1.0TFLOPs, so not that huge upgrade.

As for 67xxM, it features 480 cores compared to 400 found in 5730M. Clock speeds haven't been specified more than that they are 500-725MHz. I would expect 6750M to have clock speed of ~650MHz and 6770M will likely have 725MHz. Memory speed will be 800-900MHz so a small improvement over 5730M's 800MHz. The best piece of news is that 67xxM comes with either DDR3 or GDDR5 so Apple will likely have to use GDDR5 for iMacs. 5730M provides 520GFLOPs and it's reported that 6600M and 6700M will provide 480-696GFLOPs so it will likely be bigger upgrade than 6950M, though it depends on what GPU Apple will choose.

http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/NOTEBOOK/GRAPHICS/AMD-RADEON-6000M/Pages/amd-radeon-6000m-series.aspx

 

[Mc Kane]

Saw the news earlier, it's pretty much what was expected (ie : downclocked Barts Pro) but it's still a nice upgrade especially on the memory front.
As you said, the iMac should benefit greatly from the almost doubled memory bandwidth (64 GB/s Vs 115.2 GB/s) !

Overall despite the lower clocks, the gap will probably be much bigger than going from 4850M to 5850M.



Is it bad that I already look forward to the 28nm 7000 Series though ?
If the recent rumors are true about Wimbledon (2GB of GDDR5 + 25% better than Blackcomb) and Ivy Bridge delivers on the core bump, then the mid/late 2012 iMac is shaping up to be a late 2009 level of massive bump for the iMac line.

 

[Hellhammer]

Overall despite the lower clocks, the gap will probably be much bigger than going from 4850M to 5850M.

4850M to 5850M wasn't that small actually, mainly because Apple upgraded the GDDR from GDDR3 to GDDR5. The difference is something like 10-20% in most games I think.

Hard to say about the performance yet, we'll have to wait for some benchmarks to be sure. This time, GDDR upgrade isn't there to help but wider mem bus is.

 

[Mc Kane]

4850M to 5850M wasn't that small actually, mainly because Apple upgraded the GDDR from GDDR3 to GDDR5. The difference is something like 10-20% in most games I think.

Hard to say about the performance yet, we'll have to wait for some benchmarks to be sure. This time, GDDR upgrade isn't there to help but wider mem bus is.

Ah yes, I forgot about the GDDR3->GDDR5 switch.



The two results available are putting the 6970M at 18,500 and 20,000 in 3D Mark 06. Those results are done with two different (laptop) CPU.
For comparison, notebookcheck is reporting a maximum score of 13,500 for the 5870M and 12,000 for the 5850M.
The resolution must be different, there's no way the bump in performance is in the 40/50% range, even on the ageing 3D Mark 06.

 

[Rodus]

Are the new 6xxx mobility series just down clocked desktop chips like the 4xxx series in earlier iMacs? If so then it should be interesting to see how they'll overclock. The 4xxx m's would run faster then the stock desktop models so hopefully we'll see this here.

 

[Hellhammer]

The two results available are putting the 6970M at 18,500 and 20,000 in 3D Mark 06. Those results are done with two different (laptop) CPU.
For comparison, notebookcheck is reporting a maximum score of 13,500 for the 5870M and 12,000 for the 5850M.
The resolution must be different, there's no way the bump in performance is in the 40/50% range, even on the ageing 3D Mark 06.

Yeah, that doesn't sound very legit. Like I said, we'll see more pretty soon

Are the new 6xxx mobility series just down clocked desktop chips like the 4xxx series in earlier iMacs? If so then it should be interesting to see how they'll overclock. The 4xxx m's would run faster then the stock desktop models so hopefully we'll see this here.

69xxM = 68xx
68xxM = 5850M = 57xx (supports only UVD2 while cards based on 6xxx support UVD3)
67xxM/66xxM = 67xx/66xx (unreleased so no specific name, the desktop chip is called "Turks" and the mobile is "Whistler")
65xxM = 57xxM & 56xxM = 5670 & 55xx
64xxM = 65xx/64xx (unreleased, the desktop chip is called "Caicos" and the mobile is called "Seymor")
63xxM = 54xxM = 54xx

48xxM = 48xx
47xxM = 47xx
46xxM = 46xx
and so on... I hope that makes some sense

So, it's not exactly the same as with 4xxxM. 6xxxM is similar to 5xxxM where 58xxM = 57xx, 57xxM = 56xx...

5850M OCs pretty good as well but there was some issues with the voltage, it wasn't high enough (well, it's mobility card) so OCs couldn't go more than 750MHz, I think, while desktop 5770 runs at 800MHz. I guess we'll see, there is always room for some OC. Hopefully the TDPs will be good

 

[Eidorian]

Lenovo just announced a Y Series notebook with the GT 550M. I wouldn't settle for anything less than the 6700/6600M from AMD.

 

[Mc Kane]

Your post just show how absurd the 5000->6000 name changes are, Hellhammer.

 

[Eidorian]

Your post just show how absurd the 5000->6000 name changes are, Hellhammer.

Ask nVidia about it. There was the Mobility Radeon HD 500v and HD 5100 Series. They're still around even if it was only supposed to be a stopgap that reused 55nm HD 4000 chips and saved the 40nm wafers for more expensive sales.

 

[Eidorian]

It looks like SemiAccurate got their hands on the specification slide from AMD. UVD 3.0 shows what is newer hardware.

 

[Hellhammer]

It looks like SemiAccurate got their hands on the specification slide from AMD. UVD 3.0 shows what is newer hardware.

Looks like the same specs can been seen in AMD's website though that slide is much more clearer. Still waiting for info about TDPs

 

[scottdot]

This, along with Intel's new processors, look like some solid evidence that new iMacs are coming down the pipe. I'm in the market to buy now but I'm very curious to see what waiting might bring in the next month or two. Who's with me?

 

[Eidorian]

This, along with Intel's new processors, look like some solid evidence that new iMacs are coming down the pipe. I'm in the market to buy now but I'm very curious to see what waiting might bring in the next month or two. Who's with me?

Updates are inevitable. It's just that every other component vendor spills the information months if not years in advance.

 

[TMRaven]

That's too bad that the new mobility 6000 series isn't a big step up for iMac graphics. I think it would still be cool if apple found a way to save up space for desktop cards, still.

I think 21.5 inch iMac buyers will rejoice, though. The sandybridges and mobility 6k will be a nice upgrade for those lower end iMacs with tpd constraints.

That is, if apple continues with the same form factors and marketing strategy.

 

[Mc Kane]

Well, the 6000 Series isn't a small update by any mean especially for the 27" and its massive resolution.


I think they'll continue with the same marketing and strategy for the 21.5 though.
Technically, with Sandy Bridge, Apple could already put a quad core in the 21.5" if they wanted. They would just have to drop an i7 2xxxS or an i5 2xxxS which are slightly downclocked version of the 2xxxK processors.

Will they do it ? I doubt it very much. I don't see the 21.5" getting quad core until the 27" goes hexa/octo core with Ivy Bridge. Apple "needs" to gimp the 21.5 to really differentiate the 27", otherwise the 21.5" with quad core would probably be enough for many people and end up selling more than the flagship 27" model...

 

[Hellhammer]

Well, the 6000 Series isn't a small update by any mean especially for the 27" and its massive resolution.


I think they'll continue with the same marketing and strategy for the 21.5 though.
Technically, with Sandy Bridge, Apple could already put a quad core in the 21.5" if they wanted. They would just have to drop an i7 2xxxS or an i5 2xxxS which are slightly downclocked version of the 2xxxK processors.

Will they do it ? I doubt it very much. I don't see the 21.5" getting quad core until the 27" goes hexa/octo core with Ivy Bridge. Apple "needs" to gimp the 21.5 to really differentiate the 27", otherwise the 21.5" with quad core would probably be enough for many people and end up selling more than the flagship 27" model...

But there is no dual core i5 (excluding the i5-2390T as it has TDP of 35W) so if Apple wants to offer an i5 as BTO for 21.5", it must be quad core. Price wise it's plausible as well. 27" still has better graphics and that enormous display which are enough for people to go with 27".

 

[Mc Kane]

Yeah you're right, I didn't think about the disappearance of dual core i5 with Sandy Bridge.
So, that means putting i3 in all 21.5" with 2400S or 2500S i5 as a BTO for the high end model.
Prediction time :


21.5-inch:

3.1GHz Intel Core i3
1920-by-1080 resolution
4GB (two 2GB) memory
500GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 6500M with 256MB
1199$

3.3GHz Intel Core i3 (with i5 2400S or 2500S BTO)
1920-by-1080 resolution
4GB (two 2GB) memory
1TB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
AMD Radeon HD 6700M with 512MB
1499$


27-inch:
3.3GHz Intel Core i5
2560-by-1440 resolution
8GB (two 2GB) memory
1TB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
AMD Radeon HD 6850M with 1GB or 6700M if Apple want to absolutely save costs...
1699$

3.4GHz Intel Core i7
2560-by-1440 resolution
8GB (two 4GB) memory
2TB hard drive or 1TB+ ≥128GB blade SSD (with 3TB BTO)
8x double-layer SuperDrive
AMD Radeon HD 6950M with 1GB
1999$


The 8GB of RAM may seem high but the RAM prices have fallen since the last refresh and 2x4GB now roughly cost the same as a mid-2010 2x2GB kit.
If the refresh happens mid 2011, then Light Peak could be a possibility but seeing that we heard nothing about it from CES yet has me cautious...



More benchmarks are out and the 6970M outperforms the 5870M by ~35% in 3D Mark Vantage !
The percentage is less flattering in 3D Mark 06 though with a rather small 17% increase if the benchmarks were done at the same resolution. We're far from the 20,000 score but the 20,000 was supposedly done on a SB laptop so it could explain the score difference.

 

[Hellhammer]

21.5-inch:

3.1GHz Intel Core i3
1920-by-1080 resolution
4GB (two 2GB) memory
500GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 6500M with 256MB
1199$

Or ATI 5670 (aka 5730M) if Apple does what they did with previous gen. Performance wise they are quite the same, 5730M is a bit faster than 6550M. Looks like it's GDDR5 for base iMac if they use 6500M (other option would be DDR3 which is worse than GDDR3).

27-inch:
3.3GHz Intel Core i5
2560-by-1440 resolution
8GB (two 2GB) memory
1TB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
AMD Radeon HD 6850M with 1GB or 6700M if Apple want to absolutely save costs...
1699$

Base 27" has just been the high-end 21.5" with 27" screen. Thus I would expect Core i3-2120 and 4GB of RAM along with AMD 6700M. If you look at the price difference between high-end 21.5" and 27", it's only 200$. The screen in 27" is much more expensive, thus adding more expensive components to the mixture sounds a bit "unApple" or they would have to raise the price, which doesn't make that much sense (brings low-end 27" very close to high-end and possibly forces people to buy 21.5" instead due to higher price while most buyers of low-end 27" are fine with the specs, they just want the screen).

At the best, it would be i5-2300 which is only ~40$ more than i3-2120.

3.4GHz Intel Core i7
2560-by-1440 resolution
8GB (two 4GB) memory
2TB hard drive or 1TB+ ≥128GB blade SSD (with 3TB BTO)
8x double-layer SuperDrive
AMD Radeon HD 6950M with 1GB
1999$

Again, I would expect i5 (2400 or 2500) as standard and i7-2600 as BTO option. 8GB of RAM sounds plausible though, 4GB modules are so cheap now. SSD solution is possible but I wouldn't expect it to be standard, SSDs are still rather expensive so the 300$ difference between the two 27" iMacs isn't enough to cover more expensive CPU, GPU, RAM, HD and SSD. Lowering the price of the BTO option is what I would expect.

 

[flipster]

It sucks, but your probably right with that. I hope that Apple does do something a little different to get the performance up when gaming. Is there another mobility card that they could use that would give at least a 20% increase over the 5750 when gaming?

Although I look forward to the 256mbit bandwidth on the new cards (the 8800 gs was 256mbit and that was introduced three years ago), if it runs slower, than its not going to be much of an upgrade

 

[Pachang]

It sucks, but your probably right with that. I hope that Apple does do something a little different to get the performance up when gaming. Is there another mobility card that they could use that would give at least a 20% increase over the 5750 when gaming?
e

Yeah the 6970m kills the 5850m & 5870m (afaik these are what is actually in current iMacs) by more like 40%. It has a higher TDP than the cards apple traditionally put in the 27" iMac. It's a mobility card by definition but is unlikely to be in the next iMac imo. It has awesome game benches though. I can't wait to see game benches for the 6950m, I hope they are reasonable.

 

[flipster]

Yeah the 6970m kills the 5850m & 5870m (afaik these are what is actually in current iMacs) by more like 40%. It has a higher TDP than the cards apple traditionally put in the 27" iMac. It's a mobility card by definition but is unlikely to be in the next iMac imo. It has awesome game benches though. I can't wait to see game benches for the 6950m, I hope they are reasonable.

Omg I would have to HAVE that iMac if it used the 6970M. Like I would go out and just buy one. Im running the 8800GS right now, and compared to the 5750 thats in the new imac, its like a 10% difference give or take when gaming. It's not worth the upgrade right now, especially not with that 2560x1440 resolution.

Edit: It's got 2GB of GDDR5 memory!!! That must be in the new imacs now! Just looked at it and it costs $400. No way it'd be in the new imac unless that thing was cto $200. That sucks!! , it only uses about 80 watts of power too

 

[iSayuSay]

3.4GHz Intel Core i7
2560-by-1440 resolution
8GB (two 4GB) memory
2TB hard drive or 1TB+ ≥128GB blade SSD (with 3TB BTO)
8x double-layer SuperDrive
AMD Radeon HD 6950M with 1GB
1999$

Wow .. now that's what i call IMPROVEMENT ... if this is the flagship model for iMac 2011 .. i'll definitely pick it up

Don't forget to include OS X Lion though
1Tb + 128 Gb SSD will be my choice, if the price is equal .. because i love going fast with OSX + bootcamp windows installed on SSD

And I hope they include numeric pad with their wireless keyboard, magic mouse is just "meh" for me .. i want a real button, and for touchy part .. i'll use track pad

Nice upgrade ... but we can only dream though .. let's just hope Steve read this