Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

137GB barrier

T

TyleRomeo

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 22, 2002
888
0
New York
can the new powermacs with the ata100 drives handle western digital's new 180GB and 200GB hard drives? or does a PCI card have to be wasted to support higher speeds? does jaguar handle drives above 137GB in the software alone? anyone have a clue about this becuase I can't seem to find a straight answer from anybody

frustrated tyler
 
I am nearly 100% sure that the new G4s with 10.2 do support larger then 137GB drives.

This is from the 10.2 release tech note. Which can be found here.
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2053.html#HW000319



Hardware/Devices

This section discusses changes and new features for device driver writers provided in Mac OS X 10.2.


ATA

The Apple's support for connected ATA devices.

* Large ATA hard drives (over 137 GB - 48-bit LBA addressing) are now supported on systems with large ATA drive support in the boot ROM. All changes are documented in the relevant header files in IOATAFamily. .



From what I understand the new DDR Macs are the only ones who have this support in the boot rom.

I hope this helps.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
I am nearly 100% sure that the new G4s with 10.2 do support larger then 137GB drives.

This is from the 10.2 release tech note. Which can be found here.
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2053.html#HW000319



Hardware/Devices

This section discusses changes and new features for device driver writers provided in Mac OS X 10.2.


ATA

The Apple's support for connected ATA devices.

* Large ATA hard drives (over 137 GB - 48-bit LBA addressing) are now supported on systems with large ATA drive support in the boot ROM. All changes are documented in the relevant header files in IOATAFamily. .



From what I understand the new DDR Macs are the only ones who have this support in the boot rom.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

it does actually thanx for the information. now just like you, i'm nearly 100% sure.

tyler
 
I don't think so.

Apple doesn't say that you can add a hard drive greater than 120GB to the current crop of G4 Power Macs. Yes, I'll bet that OS 10.2 will be able to handel a drive that big, and much bigger, however OSs have always been a step or two ahead of the system hardware's ability to address drives.

In order for a drive of 137GB or bigger to be fully addressed, there must be greater than 32-bit addressing available on the processor. I checked moto's websit, and found that the current G4s (DDR [somewhat] capible) only have a 32-bit addressing routine. If you were talking SCSI drives, it would be different, as SCSI drives don't rely on the CPU for addressing. IDE drives do. Unless you install an add-on PCI card.

I would be interested in confirmation either way on this as well.
 
Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by sturm375
Apple doesn't say that you can add a hard drive greater than 120GB to the current crop of G4 Power Macs. Yes, I'll bet that OS 10.2 will be able to handel a drive that big, and much bigger, however OSs have always been a step or two ahead of the system hardware's ability to address drives.

In order for a drive of 137GB or bigger to be fully addressed, there must be greater than 32-bit addressing available on the processor. I checked moto's websit, and found that the current G4s (DDR [somewhat] capible) only have a 32-bit addressing routine. If you were talking SCSI drives, it would be different, as SCSI drives don't rely on the CPU for addressing. IDE drives do. Unless you install an add-on PCI card.

I would be interested in confirmation either way on this as well.
Click to expand...

ok well apple wont sell a larger extra hard drive thats bigger than the largest their top machine comes with stock.
the old dual 1GHZ had an 80 GB hard drive and only an 80GB hard drive add on. I know that 120Gb drives existed when the old 1GHZ came out apple just chooses not to add in larger drives as options in february.

if Jaguar and the DDR macs only handle 32bit addressing then 120GB is all they will allow unless, people purchase ata133 or serial ata pci cards. So the real question is if the new macs are 32 bit or 48bit

pondring tyler
 
I was worried about this, too. According to http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ someone successfully put a larger than 137 GB Hard Drive in a new dual GHz w/ DDR (Maxtor 160, I think), and it worked. It has to be connected to the ATA/100 controller, though, I think. Check their archives. Not so sure about other Macs, but I know the DDR 167 FSB Towers will.

Speaking of Maxtor, they have some 260 GB 7200 RPM and 320 GB 5400 RPM drives coming out soon. IBM will have a 180 GB. Yeah baby. Guess my 120 isn't so big anymore.
 
Re: I don't think so.

I was wrong, dead wrong.

Updated Info: Apple's August 2002 G4 "Mirrored Drive Door" systems support 48bit addressing to fully utilize large drives like the Maxtor 160GB (and larger) drives. (Western Digital has a 200GB IDE drive now also).
In the past you needed either a PCI IDE controller (i.e. Acard ATA/100+, ATA/133) or Intechusa.com's (OS 9 only) Speedtools v6 drivers, or a Firewire bridge board with firmware that supported 48bit addressing.
(previous info follows from shortly after Maxtor released their 160GB IDE drive...)
Click to expand...

from:
http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/actio...onse=answer.faq.lasso&-recordID=33772&-search
 
The only specs that cant, I believe,are the ata/66 and ata/33 specs and their equivelent ultra forms aswell.

They have a bottle neck in their programming that allows for only about 137 GB to be accepted by the computer. I beileve, tho, that ata/100 in the new pmacs can see past this, assuming apple did its homework and got rid of the bottle neck on their ata controllers.

BUT.... I only suggest using larger drives on the ata/100 controllers. The new pmacs come with both ata/100 and ata/66 controllers, so be careful which ur hard drive is connected to.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
ATA100 controllers have had a size limitation from the start but due to some recent change in them the new ones are capable of huge sizes.
Click to expand...

so thats fine, we can stick a 200GB western digital drivezilla on the other ata100 drive and then add a serial ata pci card and then plug in two more monster drives when they arrive in place of the ata 66 drive slots to have other a terabyte inside the new dual DDR macs.

tyler
 
Originally posted by TyleRomeo


so thats fine, we can stick a 200GB western digital drivezilla on the other ata100 drive and then add a serial ata pci card and then plug in two more monster drives when they arrive in place of the ata 66 drive slots to have other a terabyte inside the new dual DDR macs.

tyler
Click to expand...

yep thats pretty much how its gunna work..
 
Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by sturm375
Yes, I'll bet that OS 10.2 will be able to handel a drive that big, and much bigger, however OSs have always been a step or two ahead of the system hardware's ability to address drives.

In order for a drive of 137GB or bigger to be fully addressed, there must be greater than 32-bit addressing available on the processor. I checked moto's websit, and found that the current G4s (DDR [somewhat] capible) only have a 32-bit addressing routine
Click to expand...

ok but don't you think that 10.2 should have built in support for 48bit addressing since it came out in August and the maxtor 160GB drive came out way before then.

Secondly I thought that 48-bit addressing has to deal with the motherboard and not the processor. The dual drive mirrored G4s DDRs have a brand new motherboard that I think should handle 48-bit and it has nothing to do with the G4 chip.

I'm still 99% sure that the new Power Macs can handle the slew of new large Hard Drives. As of now, i know IBM makes a 180GB, Maxtor has their 160GB, and Western Digital has 160GB, 180GB and even 200GB. Has anyone installed one of these new larger drives then 137GB in the second ata-100 slot.

tyler
 
Re: Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by TyleRomeo


ok but don't you think that 10.2 should have built in support for 48bit addressing since it came out in August and the maxtor 160GB drive came out way before then.

Secondly I thought that 48-bit addressing has to deal with the motherboard and not the processor. The dual drive mirrored G4s DDRs have a brand new motherboard that I think should handle 48-bit and it has nothing to do with the G4 chip.

I'm still 99% sure that the new Power Macs can handle the slew of new large Hard Drives. As of now, i know IBM makes a 180GB, Maxtor has their 160GB, and Western Digital has 160GB, 180GB and even 200GB. Has anyone installed one of these new larger drives then 137GB in the second ata-100 slot.

tyler
Click to expand...

I'd venture to guess that OS 10.2 can handle terra, if not petabytes. However before a computer loads the OS, it must first be able to read the disk the OS is on. That is firmware, not software. Yes the motherboard, speciffically the onboard IDE controler must be able to handle the addressing, however with IDE, the processor handles a lot of the addressing as well. That is why it is less expensive than SCSI.
 
Re: Re: Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by sturm375


I'd venture to guess that OS 10.2 can handle terra, if not petabytes. However before a computer loads the OS, it must first be able to read the disk the OS is on. That is firmware, not software. Yes the motherboard, speciffically the onboard IDE controler must be able to handle the addressing, however with IDE, the processor handles a lot of the addressing as well. That is why it is less expensive than SCSI.
Click to expand...

ok but im not refering to SCSI, im solely interested in IDE. Well Apple won't give me a straight answer either and i haven't heard of anyone having a drive larger than 120GB inside the new Power Macs.

tyler
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by TyleRomeo


ok but im not refering to SCSI, im solely interested in IDE. Well Apple won't give me a straight answer either and i haven't heard of anyone having a drive larger than 120GB inside the new Power Macs.

tyler
Click to expand...

If you refer to a previous post of mine above, you'll see that with the new "mirrored" G4s, it is possible.

I was wrong, dead wrong.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Updated Info: Apple's August 2002 G4 "Mirrored Drive Door" systems support 48bit addressing to fully utilize large drives like the Maxtor 160GB (and larger) drives. (Western Digital has a 200GB IDE drive now also).
In the past you needed either a PCI IDE controller (i.e. Acard ATA/100+, ATA/133) or Intechusa.com's (OS 9 only) Speedtools v6 drivers, or a Firewire bridge board with firmware that supported 48bit addressing.
(previous info follows from shortly after Maxtor released their 160GB IDE drive...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



from:
http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/actio...D=33772&-search
Click to expand...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by sturm375


If you refer to a previous post of mine above, you'll see that with the new "mirrored" G4s, it is possible.
Click to expand...

yeah i know man, but im anal and i'd like to have more than one source say that it's ok before i blow $400 on a 200GB drive. I guess i'll have to wait until i hear more people have success stories. Ok speak directly with maxtor and western digital at MWNY 2003.

Tyler
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by TyleRomeo


yeah i know man, but im anal and i'd like to have more than one source say that it's ok before i blow $400 on a 200GB drive. I guess i'll have to wait until i hear more people have success stories. Ok speak directly with maxtor and western digital at MWNY 2003.

Tyler
Click to expand...

I know how you feel, but it should work fine. E-mail Apple if you have any questions. And if there is a problem, you can always buy an ATA/133 card or get Speedtools, but you shouldn't have to. If nothing else, you could always get a newer external firewire enclosure. I have a PC with a newer ATA/100 controller that the motherboard manufacturer has certified for 160 GB+ hard drives.

Just make sure you have a newer DDR Tower.

I think I'm going to wait for the prices to drop a little. I just got a 120 GB IBM a couple of months ago. It was only $130 w/shipping.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I don't think so.

Originally posted by solvs


I know how you feel, but it should work fine. E-mail Apple if you have any questions. And if there is a problem, you can always buy an ATA/133 card or get Speedtools, but you shouldn't have to. If nothing else, you could always get a newer external firewire enclosure. I have a PC with a newer ATA/100 controller that the motherboard manufacturer has certified for 160 GB+ hard drives.

Just make sure you have a newer DDR Tower.

I think I'm going to wait for the prices to drop a little. I just got a 120 GB IBM a couple of months ago. It was only $130 w/shipping.
Click to expand...

Well if I had to buy a PCI card i'd like the 3 in one design by sonnet (Firewire, USB 2, ATA-133) but rather id like one that's serial ATA. Serial has those nice thin cables, I plan on having all four HD bays filled so I dont want huge standard 40 pin cables clogging up my PM. Oh wait let me check if it's a new DDR tower, dual mirror doors, check, sounds like a jet fighter when starting up, check, ok i think im all set. By the way $130 for the IBM 120Gb is a great price. I barefeats has it comparing pretty much to WD 180GB with the 8MB buffer, and the new IBM 180GB blows away WD 180GB 8MB buffer, mainly becuase now IBM is making 8MB drives also.

but about compatibity, i'll enter my apple store and sit down at the genius bar and ask away. once i buy one, i'll post back here and let you guys in how it works, I just hope maxtor will come out with their 320GB drive by next summer. That will happily house my CD collection. and i'll leave the stock 120GB IBM to run OSX

tyler

tyler
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back