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13inch Retina speculation

Sahee

Sahee

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 22, 2012
105
0
Germany
new-macbook-pro-2012-retina-13-inch.jpeg

​
*gathered by Imladris

The 13inch Retina is basically a revealed secret, it seems like Apple has been delaying the 13inch Retina Version with the purpose of getting higher sales with the 15inch version. The rMBP 13inch is rumored to have a 2560x1600 Panel which leads to the conclusion that 1280x800 seems to be the "best for Retina" scaling... mathematically this would mean that 1600x1000 is the "more space" option... so you can get the best of both worlds... image quality and if you need it -> Displayspace. Even if it does not have a dedicated GPU, there should be no problem attaching one trough the Thunderbolt-Ports. If Apple manages to create a 13inch with 5Megapixel Screen, Thunderbolt, Displayport, USB 3.0 and HDMI... they basically have the best 15- and 13inch laptops on the market.

It is speculated to be released September/early October.
...but whats regarding the price? I think the base version will be listed for about 1500$.
 
Last edited:
Sahee said:
Source: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...chmarks_appear_launch_rumored_before_oct.html

The 13inch Retina is basically a revealed secret, it seems like Apple has been delaying the 13inch Retina Version with the purpose of getting higher sales with the 15inch version.

Looking at the Geekbench-Score we can actually expect the device to have a dedicated GPU (as the 4000HD can not really handle Retina in some situations).

It is speculated the be released September/early October.
...but whats regarding the price? I think the base version will be listed for 1400-1500$.
Click to expand...


Always take articles like that with a grain of salt...Personally, I don't think we'll see a 13'' Retina this year. Not saying it won't happen, but if I had to guess I'd say we won't see one. However, these articles always come up claiming to have discovered some new Apple product and it's really a 20%-80% chance if it's legitimate or not. 80% of the time these articles never amount to anything other than a rumor never found true. I wouldn't take this by any means as proof of anything we'll see, though it is possible.

As for pricing, I think the range you're talking about it realistic. Maybe $100 more for the base, at most.
 
Sahee said:
Source: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...chmarks_appear_launch_rumored_before_oct.html

The 13inch Retina is basically a revealed secret, it seems like Apple has been delaying the 13inch Retina Version with the purpose of getting higher sales with the 15inch version.

Looking at the Geekbench-Score we can actually expect the device to have a dedicated GPU (as the 4000HD can not really handle Retina in some situations).

It is speculated the be released September/early October.
...but whats regarding the price? I think the base version will be listed for 1400-1500$.
Click to expand...

As you are saying, the MBP needs to have a dedicated GPU would be amazing. I really hope that Apple is getting the 13 inches up to the 15 inches, looking at the specifications, but my concern is, that the pricing will follow these new specifications.
 
PEN10k said:
As you are saying, the MBP needs to have a dedicated GPU would be amazing. I really hope that Apple is getting the 13 inches up to the 15 inches, looking at the specifications, but my concern is, that the pricing will follow these new specifications.
Click to expand...

That's the biggest question, the retina-resolution is rumored to be 1280 x 800, which means "more space" would be 1600 x 1000. Maybe the HD4000 can handle a Retina Display-Panel with native 2560 * 1600 Pixel resolution... but I doubt it. Anyway, the base 13inch Macbook-Air achieves 6300 in Geekbench with a ULV-CPU, so when you take into account that the 13inch Retina has got a "normal" voltage CPU... than everything is leading against a dedicated graphics card, as you can expect the Geekbench to be about ~1000 higher just because of that CPU difference... (Base Retina Macbook 13inch achieves 7800 on Geekbench).
 
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I could see them introducing a Retina 13" at the end of the year or very early next year. It will be interesting to see if they can maintain the form factor of the current rMBP. That is going to be a rough battle for them.

Everything will move to Retina, but it is really going to take some time. I think a Retina iMac is a very long ways off and won't be nearly the PPI of the rMBP.
 
It makes sense to me that everything will be Retina eventually. Apple has to innovate ahead of their competition and this is the "big way" right now.

But I'm a bit disappointed with the overall change from computer to un-upgradable commodity. The reason our family was able to use a Macbook White for 5 years is that we could upgrade the memory and disk ourselves. The thing just kept going!

The more affordable base models continue to suit my needs and can expand over time, that will be missed.
 
InlawBiker said:
It makes sense to me that everything will be Retina eventually. Apple has to innovate ahead of their competition and this is the "big way" right now.

But I'm a bit disappointed with the overall change from computer to un-upgradable commodity. The reason our family was able to use a Macbook White for 5 years is that we could upgrade the memory and disk ourselves. The thing just kept going!

The more affordable base models continue to suit my needs and can expand over time, that will be missed.
Click to expand...

It seems like mac users will need to rely on the good resale values of their machines in the future, the best solution would be to sell the device every second year to get the newest tech... when the device is used carefully it should be possible to maintain a good amount of money regarding the initial purchase.

...maybe the classic Unibody-Macs will stay in the portfolio... who knows.
 
I agree with you that a retina MacBook Pro 13" seems likely this fall. Here are the rumors/hints (or fakes/misinformation, depending on what you trust or believe :) ) I've collected so far:


I am aware of that any of these could be fake or wrong. I myself put the most trust in the first three bullets. (I mean, you *could* fake some battery readings on some obscure site, but who would bother?)

I think I would like to buy this laptop when it appears, so I have put a little too much attention to the rumors. ;) I belong to the people who think it's obvious that this model will come and be the smaller version of the 15" RMBP. I don't think Apple thinks that 1280x800 is the ideal resolution for a 13" MBP (especially given that the Air has a higher resolution). That's one of the reasons that I think that the "classic" MBP are on their way out, leaving a lineup of the 11" MBA, 13" MBA, 13" RMBP, 15" RMBP. I also think Kuo's report above, saying that the 13" RMBP was delayed, makes sense; I think Apple would have wanted to release it at the same time as the 15", if they could have.

Sufficient differentiation from the 13" Air are the screen, the CPU, maybe a faster SSD (?) and maybe some ports. And, I would guess 8GB-16GB of RAM. If we're lucky, a quad core processor might also be an option (yes, there is one with a TDP of 35W, the i7-3612QM). I would like some graphics better than the HD 4000 as much as anyone else, but I don't think it will happen. The 13" MBP has had integrated graphics for a long time, so I think it will stay that way. A 13" RMBP will have fewer pixels to push than the 15" RMBP, for which Apple apparently thinks the HD 4000 works well enough (for non-demanding work).

I am also in the camp who thinks that the "Pro" identifier is nothing more than a name. To me, it seems like "Pro" means "more features" and "higher performance", compared to the cheaper models (MacBook/MacBook Air). I have done professional work on my MacBook in the past without problem and I'm sure many people with Pros don't use them for work.

Now, let's see how many downvotes this long post gets. :)
 
I don't buy the "Apple is delaying as to not cannibalize 15" sales" argument.

If you need a 15, you buy a 15. If you need a 13 you buy a 13.

Now downvote me as you wish, but I totally don't understand the need for a 13" pro model. I do understand an Air with a retina screen at the size. But who is doing serious gaming, graphic, photography, and video work where a pro is needed, but they want a 13" screen?
 
Fortimir said:
I don't buy the "Apple is delaying as to not cannibalize 15" sales" argument.

If you need a 15, you buy a 15. If you need a 13 you buy a 13.

Now downvote me as you wish, but I totally don't understand the need for a 13" pro model. I do understand an Air with a retina screen at the size. But who is doing serious gaming, graphic, photography, and video work where a pro is needed, but they want a 13" screen?
Click to expand...

Agreed with the 13" vs 15" thing.

I don't want the 13" Air because of its ULV processors and worse (than some retina) screen. (I also hope a 13" RMBP will have better cooling, but who knows about that.) Both faster processors (non-ULV) and a retina screen costs more money. There may be other things Apple could make better than in the Air, for more money. If enough people wants a 13" model with better specifications than the Air, don't you think that is reason enough for Apple to sell it?
 
imladris said:
If enough people wants a 13" model with better specifications than the Air, don't you think that is reason enough for Apple to sell it?
Click to expand...

According to a poll in another thread, not that many people want a 13" retina pro. I think most people who do just want the retina in a 13" size. Again, I think in the moderately-near future ALL MacBooks will have retina screens. At that point I think 11 and 13 make sense for Airs... 15 and 17 for pros.
 
Wirelessly posted

Fortimir said:
I don't buy the "Apple is delaying as to not cannibalize 15" sales" argument.

If you need a 15, you buy a 15. If you need a 13 you buy a 13.

Now downvote me as you wish, but I totally don't understand the need for a 13" pro model. I do understand an Air with a retina screen at the size. But who is doing serious gaming, graphic, photography, and video work where a pro is needed, but they want a 13" screen?
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
Sahee said:
Source: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...chmarks_appear_launch_rumored_before_oct.html

The 13inch Retina is basically a revealed secret, it seems like Apple has been delaying the 13inch Retina Version with the purpose of getting higher sales with the 15inch version.

Looking at the Geekbench-Score we can actually expect the device to have a dedicated GPU (as the 4000HD can not really handle Retina in some situations).

It is speculated to be released September/early October.
...but whats regarding the price? I think the base version will be listed for 1400-1500$.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt the price would be that low. Seeing as it will have an SSD, high-power i7 chip, etc...

I'd put it's pricing as relative to the 13" and 15" MBPs. That is, the upper 13" being the same price as the base 15" (aka, $2200), and the base 13" being $400 less ($1800).

But of course, I could be wrong. I didn't think they could pull of the 13" at all (of course, we have yet to see what kind of battery life we actually get).
 
Sahee said:
That's the biggest question, the retina-resolution is rumored to be 1280 x 800, which means "more space" would be 1600 x 1000. Maybe the HD4000 can handle a Retina Display-Panel with native 2560 * 1600 Pixel resolution... but I doubt it. Anyway, the base 13inch Macbook-Air achieves 6300 in Geekbench with a ULV-CPU, so when you take into account that the 13inch Retina has got a desktop CPU... than everything is leading against a dedicated graphics card, as you can expect the Geekbench to be about ~1000 higher just because of that CPU difference... (Base Retina Macbook 13inch achieves 7800 on Geekbench).
Click to expand...

Um no it won't. It will have a mobile CPU, albeit won't be ULV, it will still be a mobile CPU. It will have the same CPU as one of the 13" cMBPs. Either the i5 or i7, I think the front page article suggests the i7 (not sure). Perhaps the i5 as the base and the i7 as an upgrade? But it WILL NOT have a desktop CPU.

----------
Slivortal said:
I highly doubt the price would be that low. Seeing as it will have an SSD, high-power i7 chip, etc...

I'd put it's pricing as relative to the 13" and 15" MBPs. That is, the upper 13" being the same price as the base 15" (aka, $2200), and the base 13" being $400 less ($1800).

But of course, I could be wrong. I didn't think they could pull of the 13" at all (of course, we have yet to see what kind of battery life we actually get).
Click to expand...

If it's price at $1800, I'm not sure how anyone with access to the edu discount would go for a 13" over a 15". The 15" gets a $200 discount since its over the $2000 mark, but the 13" in this case will only get $100 off. That will shrink the difference to $300.

$300 for 15" screen, quad-core and possibly a discrete GPU (or at least a better GPU)....well worth it IMO.
 
imladris said:
I don't think Apple thinks that 1280x800 is the ideal resolution for a 13" MBP (especially given that the Air has a higher resolution).
Click to expand...

As the rMBP 13inch is rumored to have a 2560x1600 Panel the 1280x800 seems to be "best for Retina"... as I said before, mathematically this would mean that 1600x1000 is the "more space" option... so you can get the best of both worlds... image quality and if you need it -> Displayspace.

Regarding the dedicated GPU... even if it does not have a dedicated GPU, there should be no problem attaching one trough the Thunderbolt-Ports. If Apple manages to create a 13inch with 5Megapixel Screen, Thunderbolt, Displayport, USB 3.0 and HDMI... they basically have the best 15- and 13inch laptops on the market.
 
Fortimir said:
According to a poll in another thread, not that many people want a 13" retina pro. I think most people who do just want the retina in a 13" size. Again, I think in the moderately-near future ALL MacBooks will have retina screens. At that point I think 11 and 13 make sense for Airs... 15 and 17 for pros.
Click to expand...

Well, I see your point but I do think there is room for a 13" retina pro, although I don't have any hard facts to back it. I'm not sure the people reading this forum is representative for people buying Macs. For example, I don't know anyone who owns a 15" Mac, but I know many who have the 13" MBP or MBA. I have also heard that the MBP 13" sells better than the MBP 15". To many, the 15" form factor seems too big. I agree that all MacBooks will have the retina screen eventually, but putting it into the Air now (or soon) would notably increase its price.*

So, to me there is a clear "need" for a 13" RMBP, to you there is not. We will see quite soon what happens (if anything). :)

* Well, if they just add a retina screen to the Air as an option, it might work, but it doesn't seem "Apple-like".
 
Sahee said:
That's the biggest question, the retina-resolution is rumored to be 1280 x 800, which means "more space" would be 1600 x 1000. Maybe the HD4000 can handle a Retina Display-Panel with native 2560 * 1600 Pixel resolution... but I doubt it. Anyway, the base 13inch Macbook-Air achieves 6300 in Geekbench with a ULV-CPU, so when you take into account that the 13inch Retina has got a desktop CPU... than everything is leading against a dedicated graphics card, as you can expect the Geekbench to be about ~1000 higher just because of that CPU difference... (Base Retina Macbook 13inch achieves 7800 on Geekbench).
Click to expand...

There isn't an Apple laptop that has a desktop CPU in it. You're confused about the difference between ULV CPUs in the MBA and normal mobile chips in the MBPs. There are very few laptops that have desktop CPUs. They normally come with 30 minutes battery life and a power brick that is half the width of a 13" MBP.

Geekbench only tests CPU and memory speed. You cannot guess what graphics a computer has from Geekbench scores since the GPU does not impact geekbench AT ALL. You also seem to be mixing up 64-bit and 32-bit Geekbench scores. If there is a retina 13" MBP coming out this year, it's more than likely to only have the HD4000 IGP.
 
Fortimir said:
I don't buy the "Apple is delaying as to not cannibalize 15" sales" argument.

If you need a 15, you buy a 15. If you need a 13 you buy a 13.

Now downvote me as you wish, but I totally don't understand the need for a 13" pro model. I do understand an Air with a retina screen at the size. But who is doing serious gaming, graphic, photography, and video work where a pro is needed, but they want a 13" screen?
Click to expand...

I'm kind of in your camp on this one, but on the other hand I can still see the need for a 13" pro. For instance, my dad wants to do a bit of VHS video conversion and the processor in a 'pro' machine will be a bit more beneficial to him. Plus, if they pop a retina screen in there and offer a couple Thunderbolt ports instead of just one, it could have some more utility to others. I think right now, despite the low resolution on the current MBP 13, there is more distinguishing it from the 13" Air than there might be when the 13" Pro goes retina. If (more like WHEN) that thing gets locked down in terms of the replaceability of SSD and RAM, there's probably little reason left to buy a 13" Pro. That said, the 13" Pro will likely be substantially cheaper than the 15" Pro, which might make it a viable purchase for some. I would guess the 13" Pro would likely have a premium of at least $200, but who knows. So, what was $1,199 becomes $1,399. We'll see...
 
Sahee said:
It is speculated to be released September/early October.
...but whats regarding the price? I think the base version will be listed for about 1500$.
Click to expand...

If the base was that low, I think it would totally kill off the non-retina pros...almost immediately. Most people who buy a 13" base pro upgrade the ram and the HDD to an SSD, so that would put you close to a retina's price. The only way i think it would be that low is if it was still stocked with a regular HDD
 
So long as the UI is smooth I'm going to get / not wait for Haswell, as mobile graphics will always been seriously constrained by thermals, but Thunderbolt opens the option of an external GPU with MUCH more legs than even the mobile Kepler in the bigger Retina.
 
mattopotamus said:
If the base was that low, I think it would totally kill off the non-retina pros...almost immediately. Most people who buy a 13" base pro upgrade the ram and the HDD to an SSD, so that would put you close to a retina's price. The only way i think it would be that low is if it was still stocked with a regular HDD
Click to expand...

Well... I expect the 13inch Version to be in the 1500-1600 pricing segment, simply because it seems to lack the dedicated graphics card and if you compare the classic 15inch with the classic 13inch version there is a pricing difference of about 600$ on both base-versions.

Retina 15inch: 650M (1GB) + Quad Core CPU + 15inch Panel
Those three attributes are worth at least 400$ compared to the Retina 13inch which will most likely only have: 4000HD + Dual Core CPU + 13inch Panel.


theSeb said:
There isn't an Apple laptop that has a desktop CPU in it. You're confused about the difference between ULV CPUs in the MBA and normal mobile chips in the MBPs.
Click to expand...

You are right, I was referring to CPU's with normal voltage. I will fix that spelling.
 
Last edited:
Sahee said:

The 13inch Retina is basically a revealed secret, it seems like Apple has been delaying the 13inch Retina Version with the purpose of getting higher sales with the 15inch version. The rMBP 13inch is rumored to have a 2560x1600 Panel which leads to the conclusion that 1280x800 seems to be the "best for Retina" scaling... mathematically this would mean that 1600x1000 is the "more space" option... so you can get the best of both worlds... image quality and if you need it -> Displayspace. Even if it does not have a dedicated GPU, there should be no problem attaching one trough the Thunderbolt-Ports. If Apple manages to create a 13inch with 5Megapixel Screen, Thunderbolt, Displayport, USB 3.0 and HDMI... they basically have the best 15- and 13inch laptops on the market.

It is speculated to be released September/early October.
...but whats regarding the price? I think the base version will be listed for about 1500$.
Click to expand...

sadly, the only thunderbolt PCI-e breakout boxes are more expensive than a new MBA. Plus the card. You would be better off just getting a model with a discrete gfx card if you need it.
 
InlawBiker said:
It makes sense to me that everything will be Retina eventually. Apple has to innovate ahead of their competition and this is the "big way" right now.

But I'm a bit disappointed with the overall change from computer to un-upgradable commodity. The reason our family was able to use a Macbook White for 5 years is that we could upgrade the memory and disk ourselves. The thing just kept going!

The more affordable base models continue to suit my needs and can expand over time, that will be missed.
Click to expand...
Which makes me wonder what they'll do with the Airs, say next year? Will they be getting higher res screens as well? I'd be interested in a 13" Retina provided the new updates have gotten rid of the annoying little issues like lag and stutters here and there I experienced on the 15" Retina. Will it actually come out in a few months, who knows.... would be odd after Apples announcements recently and no blurb on the 13, to out of the blue months from now release a Retina version.

But def has me wondering what will happen with the Air screens, if they'll get updated as well....
 
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