15" MBP with Vega 20 and 32GB Ram, poor video editing performance normal?

[LeoH21]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to quickly check if it is normal what my MBP is doing.

So before I bought the new MBP with Vega 20 graphics and 32 GB Ram, I watched plenty of videos online and they all showed the new Macbook tearing through red footage at even 6k.

Yet my MacBook Pro stutters when editing 4k video footage from a Sony A7 III and the Panasonic GH5. Dropped frames everywhere. Why could that be? is this normal? if I do a Multicam clip I have to use proxies or I simply won't be able to edit due to the amount of dropped frames.

It's a bit weird dropping all this money on a laptop and still having to create proxies.

If there's any editors out there that use the GH5, please let me know if your Mac struggles with the codec.

 

[alexballvideos]

You'll need to share a little more specific information.

1. Editing suite? fcpx, premiere, resolve. which version...
2. Which GH5 codec / setting are you filming with?
3. Are you using any plugins on the timeline in the video editor
4. any or how many LUT's?
5. Where are the video files stored? internal SSD, External HDD, External SSD?

As a starter if it cannot play footage off the ssd in quicktime or in an editor, then there is clearly a problem.
Have you run any benchmarks to make sure the machine is running as per review performance? eg cinebench r15 (some here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=max+yuryev+macbook+pro+vega but I'm sure you know them from researching beforehand) Have you tried encoding any video files, say with handbrake?
[doublepost=1557005010][/doublepost]For reference, I use 15" i7 2.6GHz / 500GB / 16GB / Pro Vega 20 4GB and edit mainly with FCP X and occasionally Premiere CC. I don't use the A7III or GH5 though. Mainly edit XT-2 4K and D750 1080P and Mavic Pro 4K, which are all h264. Editing off external Samsung T5 SSD's.

 

[LeoH21]

You'll need to share a little more specific information.

1. Editing suite? fcpx, premiere, resolve. which version...
2. Which GH5 codec / setting are you filming with?
3. Are you using any plugins on the timeline in the video editor
4. any or how many LUT's?
5. Where are the video files stored? internal SSD, External HDD, External SSD?

As a starter if it cannot play footage off the ssd in quicktime or in an editor, then there is clearly a problem.
Have you run any benchmarks to make sure the machine is running as per review performance? eg cinebench r15 (some here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=max+yuryev+macbook+pro+vega but I'm sure you know them from researching beforehand) Have you tried encoding any video files, say with handbrake?
[doublepost=1557005010][/doublepost]For reference, I use 15" i7 2.6GHz / 500GB / 16GB / Pro Vega 20 4GB and edit mainly with FCP X and occasionally Premiere CC. I don't use the A7III or GH5 though. Mainly edit XT-2 4K and D750 1080P and Mavic Pro 4K, which are all h264. Editing off external Samsung T5 SSD's.

I am using FCPX, latest version.
I am using GH5 codec that is 4k and 400MBPS and also the A7S II and A7 III I am using 4k at the highest codec.
No plugins
No LUTS
I am using the Samsung X5 Thunderbolt 3 drive to store the videos on, tried. moving them to internal and same issue.

Multicam is a no go without proxies and even normal clips struggle at higher codecs.

 

[alexballvideos]

I am using FCPX, latest version.
I am using GH5 codec that is 4k and 400MBPS and also the A7S II and A7 III I am using 4k at the highest codec.
No plugins
No LUTS
I am using the Samsung X5 Thunderbolt 3 drive to store the videos on, tried. moving them to internal and same issue.

Multicam is a no go without proxies and even normal clips struggle at higher codecs.

Hmm odd. Seems like your doing it right ☺️ I’d do some know benchmarks to make sure the machine is working properly. Sometimes I’ll have to change preview quality from better quality to better performance if I’m editing 4K in a 1080p timeline. https://support.apple.com/kb/PH15848?locale=en_AU

 

[LeoH21]

Thank you for the response. Sorry I should have mentioned, the first time I took the MBP to the Genius Bar they said it shouldn't be struggling at all. They actually swapped the machine out... the new machine has the same issue, so it's not the machine. I am just surprised given all those youtube videos saying it works with Red 6 and 8k...yet can't handle gh5 footage.

Was curious if others using GH5 and A7 III have the same issue when recording at higher formats?

 

[alexballvideos]

Thank you for the response. Sorry I should have mentioned, the first time I took the MBP to the Genius Bar they said it shouldn't be struggling at all. They actually swapped the machine out... the new machine has the same issue, so it's not the machine. I am just surprised given all those youtube videos saying it works with Red 6 and 8k...yet can't handle gh5 footage.

Was curious if others using GH5 and A7 III have the same issue when recording at higher formats?

Yeah I probably cant give you any other advice, not using either of those cameras. Google search shows people with issues since 2017 with GH5 10-bit all intra footage causing huge performance issues in FCPX. Sounds similar to the 1DX mk2 motion jpeg codec causing system playback issues. Hope you work out resolution and can get back to filmmaking, not troubleshooting!

Might help to edit three title to include GH5 /FCPX or pop over to http://fcp.co and seek advice there.

 

[MakeTheMostOfLife]

I edit A7RIII 4k footage on FCPX 2018 MacBook Pro 560x 32gb I9 no problem. Completely smooth at all times.

I did just start importing 8k stills for editing time-lapse and boy that totally wreck the system. Takes absolutely ages to render it to be able to play it in timeline and crashed a few times.

Its annoying as even using Vega 64 Egpu, after import and then the tracks have to render for ages I can see in the activity monitor that the CPU and GPU are barely being used. That sucks. Why does FCPX not push the hardware available to get the job done

 

[LeoH21]

I updated to the latest Macbook thinking I would no longer have to render. Boy was I wrong. I am wondering if I invest in a 9th gen i9 and get a RTX 2070, 64gb ram, and have my work station that I build at home. Maybe that is the only way not to sit around for renders. Then I could start with Resolve, which I have been wanting to try out.

Very disappointed in the MBP to be honest. If I knew this going in I may have built my own pc from the start.

 

[Ael_MR]

I updated to the latest Macbook thinking I would no longer have to render. Boy was I wrong. I am wondering if I invest in a 9th gen i9 and get a RTX 2070, 64gb ram, and have my work station that I build at home. Maybe that is the only way not to sit around for renders. Then I could start with Resolve, which I have been wanting to try out.

Very disappointed in the MBP to be honest. If I knew this going in I may have built my own pc from the start.

It’s a laptop not a desktop. I think your expectations need to be re-evaluated.

 

[giffut]

I would recommend trying out Blackmagic Davinci Resolve. Version 16 is now much faster compared to Final by utilizing all available GPU resources, be it internal or external. This is running resolve on the same hardware as Final Cut. If you have three gpus available, davinci will use them to their full potential, contrary to Final Cut.

Blackmagic shows strong commitment and evolves its software at a rapid pace and solid foundation . In my opinion it is now taking the lead compared to Final Cut and Premiere, as with version 16 they overhauled the interface for great workflow improvements.

Try out the free version first to evaluate your specific needs.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/

 

[ashcairo]

I am using FCPX, latest version.
I am using GH5 codec that is 4k and 400MBPS and also the A7S II and A7 III I am using 4k at the highest codec.
No plugins
No LUTS
I am using the Samsung X5 Thunderbolt 3 drive to store the videos on, tried. moving them to internal and same issue.

Multicam is a no go without proxies and even normal clips struggle at higher codecs.

Hey mate, I edit my 4k A73 footage just fine on my i7 2.2 / 555X plugged into a UWQHD monitor...

- How many external displays do you have plugged into yours?
- Is FCPX doing anything in the background while you're trying to edit? (Command+9)
- Launch Activity Monitor and sort the CPU tab by %. What's your top used apps and what's the % of them?
- Last Resort.. Have you tried a clean install of Mojave with no dodgy apps or services running in the background?

 

[Fishrrman]

Aei wrote:
"It’s a laptop not a desktop. I think your expectations need to be re-evaluated."

Agreed.
The OP should be considering a top-spec iMac or an iMac Pro...

 

[giffut]

No, his macbook certainly should be more than enough for the described workflow.

I strongly suspect Final Cut as the culprit. It is only optimized for very specific types of workflows and he seems to be caught in between.

 

[pshufd]

It may be possible to optimize workflows for performance doing some of the work using other tools. I suspect that the main performance improvements in this kind of workflow are threading and SIMD coding.

 

[LeoH21]

Hey mate, I edit my 4k A73 footage just fine on my i7 2.2 / 555X plugged into a UWQHD monitor...

- How many external displays do you have plugged into yours?
- Is FCPX doing anything in the background while you're trying to edit? (Command+9)
- Launch Activity Monitor and sort the CPU tab by %. What's your top used apps and what's the % of them?
- Last Resort.. Have you tried a clean install of Mojave with no dodgy apps or services running in the background?

Hi

- No external displays connected
- FCPX isn't doing anything in background as I often leave it to do background rendering
- FCPX is currently showing 427% usage as I am currently exporting a SIX MUNITE video that I added noise reduction too and added auto colour correction to... it's been exporting for over an hour now. Ram usage is 14gb out of the 32 the laptop has.
- I have not only tried a clean install, I have had the laptop replaced.

I will be trying Resolve 16 as someone else suggested.

Something worth noting. I can edit 4k footage that was recorded in Pro Res 422 without an issue, no need to create proxies or optimise media. That footage was recorded using a canon c300 mark ii and the footage was recorded to pro res using the Atomos external recorder. Yet GH5 footage and A7 III footage struggle so bad.

Thank you all for the help.

 

[ashcairo]

Hi

- No external displays connected
- FCPX isn't doing anything in background as I often leave it to do background rendering
- FCPX is currently showing 427% usage as I am currently exporting a SIX MUNITE video that I added noise reduction too and added auto colour correction to... it's been exporting for over an hour now. Ram usage is 14gb out of the 32 the laptop has.
- I have not only tried a clean install, I have had the laptop replaced.

I will be trying Resolve 16 as someone else suggested.

Something worth noting. I can edit 4k footage that was recorded in Pro Res 422 without an issue, no need to create proxies or optimise media. That footage was recorded using a canon c300 mark ii and the footage was recorded to pro res using the Atomos external recorder. Yet GH5 footage and A7 III footage struggle so bad.

Thank you all for the help.

Can you give me a screenshot of activity monitor sorted descending CPU usage when you're just trying to edit a73 footage without an export going in the background?

 

[LeoH21]

Can you give me a screenshot of activity monitor sorted descending CPU usage when you're just trying to edit a73 footage without an export going in the background?

Hi

Please look at the photos below. I am getting non-stop spinning beachball in Final Cut. I was literally editing iPhone footage and tried to apply a preset effect for the intro of the video, I went to type and change the text and it crashed. Then the second time it beach balled for ages. This doesn't seem right. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling final cut.

The footage is from a Sony A6300 in UHD.

 

[ashcairo]

Hey mate,

First Screenshot - It says in the first screenshot that it's busy transcoding the clips. I assume you're working on a multicam clip, and in the options you've got 'create optimised media for multicam clips' selected. What you can do is either wait for it to transcode your clips, or cancel the transcode operation and disable that checkbox. If you try playing with FCPX while it's doing a heavy operation like transcoding, it gets pretty cluggy. You can try to switch to Better Performance to see if that helps, but I usually avoid transcodes while editing.

Second Screenshot - I can see FCPX is not responding and no apps are hogging the show. You said it slows down after using a present, which one are you using? Second note, BetterTouchTool is a cool app and it most probably is not a problem at all and they might have fixed these issues since I last tested it out, but last time I tried it, it was a little cluggy to use and randomly hogged system resources.

Can you throw me a screenshot of the Memory tab?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

You'll need to share a little more specific information.

1. Editing suite? fcpx, premiere, resolve. which version...
2. Which GH5 codec / setting are you filming with?
3. Are you using any plugins on the timeline in the video editor
4. any or how many LUT's?
5. Where are the video files stored? internal SSD, External HDD, External SSD?

Exactly. No matter what kind of laptop, even desktop, an editor uses there comes a point when a project can be so heavy or the workflow not configured optimally that the app and the computer will struggle.

 

[LeoH21]

Exactly. No matter what kind of laptop, even desktop, an editor uses there comes a point when a project can be so heavy or the workflow not configured optimally that the app and the computer will struggle.

I understand this... but a 7 minute clip containing footage from an iPhone 7 and sony a6300... surely that's not normal.
[doublepost=1557179230][/doublepost]

Hey mate,

First Screenshot - It says in the first screenshot that it's busy transcoding the clips. I assume you're working on a multicam clip, and in the options you've got 'create optimised media for multicam clips' selected. What you can do is either wait for it to transcode your clips, or cancel the transcode operation and disable that checkbox. If you try playing with FCPX while it's doing a heavy operation like transcoding, it gets pretty cluggy. You can try to switch to Better Performance to see if that helps, but I usually avoid transcodes while editing.

Second Screenshot - I can see FCPX is not responding and no apps are hogging the show. You said it slows down after using a present, which one are you using? Second note, BetterTouchTool is a cool app and it most probably is not a problem at all and they might have fixed these issues since I last tested it out, but last time I tried it, it was a little cluggy to use and randomly hogged system resources.

Can you throw me a screenshot of the Memory tab?

Thank you for the help. I turned off transcoding and it's much better.
The preset...sorry I meant installed titles is called slash ink- splats.
I called apple care today and the guy tried blaming the media, the external hard drive (Samsung X5 and Samsung T5, I also pointed out it happens when the videos ar eon the hard drive) , he finally got me to run a diagnostic that take 90 minutes, he said the data gets sent back to him and he will contact me tomorrow. I will update here.

Also, I noticed final cut is making crash reports on my desktop in a file it created called videoAppDiagnostics. I have copy and pasted the first part of it below. Not sure if it is helpful. It goes on for pages, but just putting the begging part below:

REPORT ONE:
Process: Final Cut Pro [1737]
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Identifier: com.apple.FinalCut
Version: 10.4.6 (342230)
Build Info: ProEditor-34223000026000000~1
App Item ID: 424389933
App External ID: 830604740
Code Type: X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process: ??? [1]
Responsible: Final Cut Pro [1737]
User ID: 501

Date/Time: 2019-04-18 00:05:54.437 +0100
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.14.4 (18E226)
Report Version: 12
Bridge OS Version: 3.4 (16P4507)
Anonymous UUID: E1DD1DE9-145C-877E-F06F-8ABF84E734E9

Sleep/Wake UUID: 3A8703F3-76CD-425A-88C2-F3C7CB18A719

Time Awake Since Boot: 67000 seconds
Time Since Wake: 3700 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x000007f91b77f900
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Segmentation fault: 11
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0xb
Terminating Process: exc handler [1737]

VM Regions Near 0x7f91b77f900:
mapped file 00000001a8ab9000-00000001a910b000 [ 6472K] r--/rwx SM=COW Object_id=268f72eb
-->
MALLOC_NANO 0000600000000000-0000600010000000 [256.0M] rw-/rwx SM=PRV

Application Specific Information:
objc_msgSend() selector name: respondsToSelector:
x1¬ãˇ


REPORT TWO:
Process: Final Cut Pro [2654]
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Identifier: com.apple.FinalCut
Version: 10.4.6 (342230)
Build Info: ProEditor-34223000026000000~1
App Item ID: 424389933
App External ID: 830604740
Code Type: X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process: ??? [1]
Responsible: Final Cut Pro [2654]
User ID: 501

Date/Time: 2019-04-20 00:28:11.607 +0100
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.14.4 (18E226)
Report Version: 12
Bridge OS Version: 3.4 (16P4507)
Anonymous UUID: E1DD1DE9-145C-877E-F06F-8ABF84E734E9

Sleep/Wake UUID: 8A11CAAF-EC4C-451D-9B84-68A85AFB3F35

Time Awake Since Boot: 28000 seconds
Time Since Wake: 830 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Crashed Thread: 6 BGTask: FFRenderStateTracker Dispatch queue: NSOperationQueue 0x6000116b00a0 (QOS: UNSPECIFIED)

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000723fbc614478
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Segmentation fault: 11
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0xb
Terminating Process: exc handler [2654]

VM Regions Near 0x723fbc614478:
Stack 000070000325e000-00007000032e0000 [ 520K] rw-/rwx SM=COW thread 63
-->
MALLOC_TINY 00007fc714c00000-00007fc715000000 [ 4096K] rw-/rwx SM=PRV

Application Specific Information:
objc_msgSend() selector name: squareFrameBounds
xAKäˇ

 

[alexballvideos]

Suggest you do what I mentioned in my earlier messages to rule out system issues.
Please find one of those reviews, where the Vega 20 MacBook Pro shreds RED cinema footage and run the same benchmarks to compare yours with and make sure the system is working properly. (I linked to several YouTube videos by Max Yurev which are a starting point. He uses GH5’s as workhorse cameras for a time; might have switched to A7III’s now).

Off the top of my head;
Geekbench OpenCL Compute for Vega20 ~ should be 72000-78000
Cinebench R15 ~ 1000+ pts CPU and 90-100fps GPU
Bryce 5K in FCP X ~ 35?sec (I honestly can’t remember exactly)

Also. Are the projects/timelines you are creating in FCPX having the same pixel width and frame rates as the videos from the A73 GH5 ect? 3840x2160 and same FPS across all cameras / iPhone 7? Or are they slightly off? 4096x2160 or some other setting/ different.

Re multicam. Are you by any chance editing in 1080P? I had major issues editing multi-cam clips that were UHD files/videos but in 1080P timelines as I had synced audio beforehand and put them into 1080P timelines.

 

[LeoH21]

Thank you so much for the help.
The Bryce test took 36 seconds,
Cinebench r20 = 2429
Geekbench= 72554

I made. mistake by not letting FCP set the size and frame rate automatically based on the first clip and set it to UHD 25p myself.

The Multicam clips I am doing are using 3x GH5 or 3x A7 III's.

I love Max's youtube videos. It was him and Western Gentlemen unite (I THINK that's his name) who show it breezing through 5k red footage.

Earlier I dropped in 20 clips and set them all to create proxies. I couldn't even use safari or calendar at the same time as the entire Mac became unusable and constantly froze. Even going back to FCP and trying to pause the process caused a 2-3 minute beachball and no response to anything.

I will make sure to update what apple say but the fact they keep saying to me "what do you expect us to do" doesn't fill me with hope.

At the moment I am leaving laptop on overnight to create proxies as I am using it all day for editing, updating website and doing life admin... if I knew I would still be transcoding overnight I would have stuck with my old Mac.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[alexballvideos]

Thank you so much for the help.
The Bryce test took 36 seconds,
Cinebench r20 = 2429
Geekbench= 72554

I made. mistake by not letting FCP set the size and frame rate automatically based on the first clip and set it to UHD 25p myself.

The Multicam clips I am doing are using 3x GH5 or 3x A7 III's.

I love Max's youtube videos. It was him and Western Gentlemen unite (I THINK that's his name) who show it breezing through 5k red footage.

Earlier I dropped in 20 clips and set them all to create proxies. I couldn't even use safari or calendar at the same time as the entire Mac became unusable and constantly froze. Even going back to FCP and trying to pause the process caused a 2-3 minute beachball and no response to anything.

I will make sure to update what apple say but the fact they keep saying to me "what do you expect us to do" doesn't fill me with hope.

At the moment I am leaving laptop on overnight to create proxies as I am using it all day for editing, updating website and doing life admin... if I knew I would still be transcoding overnight I would have stuck with my old Mac.

Thanks again for your help.

Thanks for doing that, mostly rules out the hardware and this is a swapped out a machine as you mentioned.

It's hard without being on your machine to dig any further without making too many assumptions.
To me it's pointing at your project settings and your files and/or video codecs.

I mentioned before, the GH5 10-bit 400mbit files are known to be problematic on all systems and editors, I can imagine a multi-cam with the 10-bit 400mb gh5 files would be problematic.

BUT you said even iPhone 7 files with some A73 files are causing it to bomb...

Is this a time machine restored backup from when you got it swapped out? maybe try a new user account if you have not already.

If I was in your situation I'd install macOS on an external drive (even just a ****** 5400rpm drive) with only FCPX installed and see what happens when you import the files with; leave files in place, do not transcode, do not transcode multi-cam and background rendering turned off... and making sure the video files are all matching pixel size and frame rates.

 

[Flabasha]

As a veteran editor for network TV, and a (former) owner of your exact setup, I will tell you exactly what is happening.

No, your machine is not strong enough.

Reason? You are editing 400MBP/s h.265 files. All the other people here are editing lower bitrate 4K. Here's the problem... h.264/5 is a CAPTURE codec, but a TERRIBLE editing codec. And when you maximize the bitrate to 400 MB/s, it will bring almost any computer to its knees.

I know, I bought your exact model of MBP, to edit 400 MB/s GH5 files just like you, and had the same cold realization. I ended up selling my GH5, and buying a Blackmagic, which shoots to ProRes, which is cake to edit with.

So, what do you do? Here are your options.

1. Shoot a lower bitrate. Or...
2. Transcode to ProRes, then edit. Or...
3. Buy an Atomos Ninja, or similar, and shoot your GH5 files to ProRes natively.

When Apple talks about being able to edit 6K and 8K RED files natively, they're not lying... because RED doesn't shoot in h.264/5. RED shoots to ProRes, or REDCODE, both of which are vastly superior codecs to edit with.

So, the good news is, your computer is fine. The bad news is, no, you can't do that on it.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I understand this... but a 7 minute clip containing footage from an iPhone 7 and sony a6300... surely that's not normal.

Yes it's not normal. There is either a configuration problem, project problem or app problem. The hardware isn't going to struggle with that.
[doublepost=1557210612][/doublepost]

As a veteran editor for network TV, and a (former) owner of your exact setup, I will tell you exactly what is happening.

No, your machine is not strong enough.

Reason? You are editing 400MBP/s h.265 files. All the other people here are editing lower bitrate 4K. Here's the problem... h.264/5 is a CAPTURE codec, but a TERRIBLE editing codec. And when you maximize the bitrate to 400 MB/s, it will bring almost any computer to its knees.

Very important to note the above. Some codecs aren't supposed to be used for editing and should be used for output. With this knowledge in mind the source material should be converted to a better codec in order to optimize the workflow.

For context, 6K RED RAW footage is captured at max 220MB/s.