Questions about Bootable Clones

[doubledee]

Okay, so I have some more questions about "Bootable Clones"...

I am ready to buy a new 13" cMBP, and would like to make an exact copy of everything (e.g. Op Sys, Apps) for two reasons...

a.) So that when I install a larger HDD, I can copy everything over, and have a new MacBook Pro but with the larger HDD.

b.) So if my HDD ever became corrupt or failed, then I would have a way to restore things back to when they were in the box.


Questions:

1.) How much space would I need to make a copy of everything on my cMBP?

Could I get lucky enough to stick it on a USB Thumbdrive?! (That would be dreamy!!)


2.) Since I live on the road, what is the most streamlined - and cost effective - way to store a copy of my Factory cMBP?

Would I have to buy an External HDD Enclosure and yet another 2.5" HDD just to have a "clone"?

Or would I have to buy a Solid-State Drive and deal with that?

(I'm really trying to minimize cost and gadgets I have to tote around as I'm a long ways away from home...)


3.) Since I will be backing up my data regularly anyways using "Time Machine", and since technically I could buy a copy of Mountain Lion if all hell broke loose, does it even make sense from a Time/Money/Space standpoint to create a "clone" that I may never need?


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I know that I have not been that impressed with Leopard or Snow Leopard, and that having a Snow leopard "Recovery DVD" saved my butt - on the road - on at least 2 occasions!!! I'm not sure if things will be that bad moving forward?!


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Also, I'm not into "tricking out" my new cMBP with a SSD drive. Personally, I want to have a DVD/CD drive for now, and I barely have the money to buy a new cMBP, so a few hundred more "here and there" for a SSD, conversion kit, etc, etc just doesn't seem to make sense right now. (Down the road, I might consider it, though.)

Thanks in advance...

Sincerely,


Debbie

 

[smokeyrabbit]

1.) How much space would I need to make a copy of everything on my cMBP?

Could I get lucky enough to stick it on a USB Thumbdrive?! (That would be dreamy!!)

Why not just get an enclosure for the HDD that you replace? That one will certainly be big enough.

3.) Since I will be backing up my data regularly anyways using "Time Machine", and since technically I could buy a copy of Mountain Lion if all hell broke loose, does it even make sense from a Time/Money/Space standpoint to create a "clone" that I may never need?

A cheap 8 GB USB thumbdrive will hold the ML installer, and will restore it back to the way it comes out of the box.

 

[doubledee]

Why not just get an enclosure for the HDD that you replace? That one will certainly be big enough.

It's been a long day.

Yeah, I guess I'm being obtuse?! (If I keep the factory HDD, then I guess that can be my "spare" HDD if things ever go wrong?!)

A cheap 8 GB USB thumbdrive will hold the ML installer, and will restore it back to the way it comes out of the box.

Here is where I get confused...

I know you can supposedly download Mountain Lion from Apple, and that it is only like 4.5 GB, however what I am trying to do is have a copy of the "image" on the factory HDD should I ever need to get back to that.

Once Mountain Lion is installed on a HDD, and it also has the factory Apps, it certainly must be larger than the 4.5 GB that make up the "Installer File"?? (Follow me?)


To your first point above, if I just keep the factory HDD somewhere, then I guess I can always use that as a "spare". But I guess I was hoping there was a way to make yet another 'clone" on a USB Drive, as that is less likely to fail than a HDD.

(Remember, I'm on the road. So that means the Factory HDD could end up sitting in below zero or above 100 F temps for months on end. And be subject to humidity, shocks, etc. I'm thinking that a USB Drive might handle things better in a worst case scenario? Not that I purposely beat my gear!!)

Sincerely,


Debbie

 

[smokeyrabbit]

I know you can supposedly download Mountain Lion from Apple, and that it is only like 4.5 GB, however what I am trying to do is have a copy of the "image" on the factory HDD should I ever need to get back to that.

Once Mountain Lion is installed on a HDD, and it also has the factory Apps, it certainly must be larger than the 4.5 GB that make up the "Installer File"?? (Follow me?)


To your first point above, if I just keep the factory HDD somewhere, then I guess I can always use that as a "spare". But I guess I was hoping there was a way to make yet another 'clone" on a USB Drive, as that is less likely to fail than a HDD.

(Remember, I'm on the road. So that means the Factory HDD could end up sitting in below zero or above 100 F temps for months on end. And be subject to humidity, shocks, etc. I'm thinking that a USB Drive might handle things better in a worst case scenario? Not that I purposely beat my gear!!)

Sincerely,


Debbie

Debbie, I just did a clean ML install on one of my iMacs and I'm pretty sure it was less than 6 GB after everything was done. The "Mac OS X Install ESD.dmg" file opens to 4.84 GB. The installer takes about 20 minutes I think.

The scenario you describe is a perfect fit for an SSD in your cMBP as well, rather than a HDD.

 

[doubledee]

Debbie, I just did a clean ML install on one of my iMacs and I'm pretty sure it was less than 6 GB after everything was done. The "Mac OS X Install ESD.dmg" file opens to 4.84 GB. The installer takes about 20 minutes I think.

If that is the case, then why couldn't I clone my Factory HDD and stick it on a USB drive as an extra backup?

(Just looking on NewEgg, it looks like USB Drives run about $1/GB...)

Now, I understand you probably couldn't run your computer off of a bootable USB Drive, but couldn't it serve as an "emergency clone"?

The scenario you describe is a perfect fit for an SSD in your cMBP as well, rather than a HDD.

When I have more $$$, you are probably right.

Sincerely,


Debbie

 

[Weaselboy]

If that is the case, then why couldn't I clone my Factory HDD and stick it on a USB drive as an extra backup?

(Just looking on NewEgg, it looks like USB Drives run about $1/GB...)

Now, I understand you probably couldn't run your computer off of a bootable USB Drive, but couldn't it serve as an "emergency clone"?

If you clone to a USB key, you can boot and run the computer from that drive just fine. It will be a bit slow, but will work in a pinch.

Just to give you a feel for size, if you install the OS, iLife apps, and iWork apps... that totals about 20GB. So if you bought say a 32GB USB key that would leave more than enough room for a system/app clone and quite a bit of data.

You might look at the app Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC). You can set it up so that when you plug in the USB key it will ask if you want to update the clone, then after clicking proceed... it updates the clone. You can also have CCC encrypt the clone on the USB key if you like.

 

[doubledee]

If you clone to a USB key, you can boot and run the computer from that drive just fine. It will be a bit slow, but will work in a pinch.

Just to give you a feel for size, if you install the OS, iLife apps, and iWork apps... that totals about 20GB. So if you bought say a 32GB USB key that would leave more than enough room for a system/app clone and quite a bit of data.

You might look at the app Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC). You can set it up so that when you plug in the USB key it will ask if you want to update the clone, then after clicking proceed... it updates the clone. You can also have CCC encrypt the clone on the USB key if you like.

Some more questions...

1.) Why would I want to use CCC versus Super Duper?

(I don't mind paying for either if it serves a useful purpose.)


2.) If I clone the Factory Installation on my new cMBP to a USB Drive, is there any "Personally Identifiable Information" on there that I would have to worry about?

(I would hate to lose the USB Drive only to find out I just gave away my identity, or log-in credentials, or other stuff that would be damning?!)


3.) Related to #2, would you encrypt a Clone on a USB drive?


4.) If I cloned my new cMBP to a 32GB USB drive, and then tried to "restore" things onto a 1TB HDD in my cMBP, does it matter that I'm in essence going from a 32GB "partition" to a 1TB "partition"?

Thanks for everyone's help so far!!

Sincerely,


Debbie

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Some more questions...

1.) Why would I want to use CCC versus Super Duper?

(I don't mind paying for either if it serves a useful purpose.)


2.) If I clone the Factory Installation on my new cMBP to a USB Drive, is there any "Personally Identifiable Information" on there that I would have to worry about?

(I would hate to lose the USB Drive only to find out I just gave away my identity, or log-in credentials, or other stuff that would be damning?!)


3.) Related to #2, would you encrypt a Clone on a USB drive?


4.) If I cloned my new cMBP to a 32GB USB drive, and then tried to "restore" things onto a 1TB HDD in my cMBP, does it matter that I'm in essence going from a 32GB "partition" to a 1TB "partition"?

Thanks for everyone's help so far!!

Sincerely,


Debbie

1) Read the features list on both. We can go on and on but it's more helpful (for you) to just look at their respective websites.

2) No.

3) I wouldn't. Makes the whole entire ordeal that much harder. I wouldn't clone the factory install. I would just download the OS from Mac App Store and create a bootable installer on the USB drive. Much more useful and "universal" to use.

4) No. Partitions are just dividers. It's arbitrary. In real life, it's like I can buy a bigger desk and move everything from my current smaller desk to my new larger one. No problems. The only problem would be going from larger to small.

 

[Weaselboy]

Some more questions...

1.) Why would I want to use CCC versus Super Duper?

(I don't mind paying for either if it serves a useful purpose.)


2.) If I clone the Factory Installation on my new cMBP to a USB Drive, is there any "Personally Identifiable Information" on there that I would have to worry about?

(I would hate to lose the USB Drive only to find out I just gave away my identity, or log-in credentials, or other stuff that would be damning?!)


3.) Related to #2, would you encrypt a Clone on a USB drive?


4.) If I cloned my new cMBP to a 32GB USB drive, and then tried to "restore" things onto a 1TB HDD in my cMBP, does it matter that I'm in essence going from a 32GB "partition" to a 1TB "partition"?

Thanks for everyone's help so far!!

Sincerely,


Debbie

1. CCC clones the Recovery HD partition and SD does not, making CCC the preferred choice IMO.

2. It depends on what you allow CCC (or any app) to move to the clone. If you allow your user account and associated data to be moved to the cloned USB drive/key, then yes, your personal info is on there.

3. You can encrypt the clone using CCC.

4. Not an issue and it won't matter. You are just cloning files/folders and not cling a partition, so as long as the destination is big enough to hold everything on the source, you are in good shape.

 

[doubledee]

3) I wouldn't. Makes the whole entire ordeal that much harder. I wouldn't clone the factory install. I would just download the OS from Mac App Store and create a bootable installer on the USB drive. Much more useful and "universal" to use.

Well, not to start a heated debate, but here are my issues with that...

I am *extremely* concerned about security, and being away from home, that creates some real issues in my mind...

To connect securely to Apple to get Mountain Lion, I would either have to use up my AT&T Data Plan to download the 4.5 GB download, and that equates to about $50.

Or, I would have to use Free Wi-Fi at McDonalds, and that is an issue because of *security*, bandwidth, available time, and so on.

I guess I could use the Personal VPN software I bought to try and download things via an encrypted tunnel - maybe at the library - but that again leaves me feeling "exposed"?!

Now that I broke down and bought the AT&T Data Plan and WiTopia, I guess using one or both of those would keep my download safe from "man-in-the-middle" attacks, but I just still feel nervous, because I'd be downloading for so long and because if something ever happened to compromise the Op Sys, then everything I did thereafter would be screwed!!!

I am also rather miffed about having to blow nearly 5GB of my 6GB/month Data Plan to get a copy of the Op Sys that I basically just dropped $1,500 on?!

I know people think I'm crazy... But I think it pays to be suspicious and paranoid in the day and age when hackers are everywhere!!!

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Sincerely,


Debbie

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1. CCC clones the Recovery HD partition and SD does not, making CCC the preferred choice IMO.

And so what does Super-Duper do then? (I thought people recommended both to make "clones"?)

2. It depends on what you allow CCC (or any app) to move to the clone. If you allow your user account and associated data to be moved to the cloned USB drive/key, then yes, your personal info is on there.

Would I have to do that to "clone" my new cMBP?

And if there was User Account info on there, would my Username and Password be stored in plain-text??

Also, would I have to worry about anything like an exposed "AppleID" or maybe some other things I'd enter during setting up my new cMBP?

(BTW, I adopted a policy when I got this MacBook to always use "user1" as the username, and never give Apple any contact info - at least not that I recall?! I know that setup will ask for Full Name, Address, Tele #, Email, but I believe I left all of that blank...)

3. You can encrypt the clone using CCC.

So to do a "restore", what would be the sequence of events, say, from a USB Thumbdrive?

4. Not an issue and it won't matter. You are just cloning files/folders and not cling a partition, so as long as the destination is big enough to hold everything on the source, you are in good shape.

I may be thinking back to my Windows days. I believe it *was* an issue with Windows...

Sincerely,


Debbie

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Well, not to start a heated debate, but here are my issues with that...

I am *extremely* concerned about security, and being away from home, that creates some real issues in my mind...

To connect securely to Apple to get Mountain Lion, I would either have to use up my AT&T Data Plan to download the 4.5 GB download, and that equates to about $50.

Or, I would have to use Free Wi-Fi at McDonalds, and that is an issue because of *security*, bandwidth, available time, and so on.

I guess I could use the Personal VPN software I bought to try and download things via an encrypted tunnel - maybe at the library - but that again leaves me feeling "exposed"?!

Now that I broke down and bought the AT&T Data Plan and WiTopia, I guess using one or both of those would keep my download safe from "man-in-the-middle" attacks, but I just still feel nervous, because I'd be downloading for so long and because if something ever happened to compromise the Op Sys, then everything I did thereafter would be screwed!!!

I am also rather miffed about having to blow nearly 5GB of my 6GB/month Data Plan to get a copy of the Op Sys that I basically just dropped $1,500 on?!

I know people think I'm crazy... But I think it pays to be suspicious and paranoid in the day and age when hackers are everywhere!!!

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Sincerely,


Debbie

So download it at home/work? No one is forcing you to download it over cellular networks or McDonald's WiFi. There are other options (just as "secure" as over cellular, which actually is the LEAST secure) besides using your data plan. If you prefer not to avoid any possible (but seriously unlikely) man in the middle attacks, download over Ethernet. Unless of course, you're afraid that the local ISP is going to hack you or something...

 

[doubledee]

So download it at home?

Gonna buy me an airline ticket to fly back to Arizona??

(I am not going home for probably the rest of 2013. I live on the road...)

No one is forcing you to download it over cellular networks or McDonald's WiFi. There are other options (just as "secure" as over cellular, which actually is the LEAST secure) besides using your data plan. If you prefer not to avoid any possible (but seriously unlikely) man in the middle attacks, download over Ethernet. Unless of course, you're afraid that the local ISP is going to hack you or something...

I don't have access to Ethernet while I'm away from home...

That is the issue.

From all of the research I have done, I suppose using WiTopia would take care of any issues I have, because it would be an encrypted tunnel from the "first hop" (e.g. McDonalds, Library, wherever) to WiTopia, but I'm still new to that, and I guess I just associate wireless with "insecure"...

There is also the concern about bandwidth.

I am unable to download things at my clients, and where I am staying has no Internet. And so that means relying on things like public hotspots (or my AT&T Data Plan, which is secure, just *expensive*!!)

Yeah know?!


Debbie

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Gonna buy me an airline ticket to fly back to Arizona??

(I am not going home for probably the rest of 2013. I live on the road...)




I don't have access to Ethernet while I'm away from home...

That is the issue.

From all of the research I have done, I suppose using WiTopia would take care of any issues I have, because it would be an encrypted tunnel from the "first hop" (e.g. McDonalds, Library, wherever) to WiTopia, but I'm still new to that, and I guess I just associate wireless with "insecure"...

There is also the concern about bandwidth.

I am unable to download things at my clients, and where I am staying has no Internet. And so that means relying on things like public hotspots (or my AT&T Data Plan, which is secure, just *expensive*!!)

Yeah know?!


Debbie

Okay, in that case I would recommend doing it at an Apple Store. Ask them if you can download a copy of ML on their display Macs (just sign in using your Apple ID, which is of no use to hackers) and then transfer it over to a USB drive.

 

[doubledee]

Okay, in that case I would recommend doing it at an Apple Store. Ask them if you can download a copy of ML on their display Macs (just sign in using your Apple ID, which is of no use to hackers) and then transfer it over to a USB drive.

Good idea, but a "No go".

I called Apple and asked about that, and was told, "We will only offer to *install* Mountain Lion for you if it falls under the warranty. We will not download it for you - or let you download it - at our Apple Stores."

So, to sum up, it sounds like I have a few options...

1.) Use CCC to build a new cMBP with my 750GB Seagate HDD
(secure + free = good!)

2.) Use my AT&T Data Plan and WiTopia to download Mountain Lion
(secure + $50 = not so good)

3.) Use Witopia to download Mountain Lion at some Free Hotspot
(secure in theory + free = questionable)

4.) Download Mountain Lion at McDonalds surfing naked!!
(crazy!!!!)


I am thinking Option #1 will do best for now...

(I can always do Option #2 if my Factory HDD died later on, and I needed a new "Recover Disk"...)

Thanks,


Debbie

 

[chown33]

4.) Download Mountain Lion at McDonalds surfing naked!!
(crazy!!!!)

Many public libraries have free internet access. If you have an ethernet cable, try that. It will be much faster than any wifi except 802.11n, and libraries are unlikely to have that.

If the library (or any other wifi hot spot) only has 802.11g, then it may take up to a few hours to complete the Mtn Lion download.

I've heard there's a bookstore in Winterhaven, CA where the owner is a naturist, so surfing naked would fit right in. In my experience, public libraries are more conventional.

 

[Weaselboy]

And so what does Super-Duper do then? (I thought people recommended both to make "clones"?)

Would I have to do that to "clone" my new cMBP?

And if there was User Account info on there, would my Username and Password be stored in plain-text??

Also, would I have to worry about anything like an exposed "AppleID" or maybe some other things I'd enter during setting up my new cMBP?

(BTW, I adopted a policy when I got this MacBook to always use "user1" as the username, and never give Apple any contact info - at least not that I recall?! I know that setup will ask for Full Name, Address, Tele #, Email, but I believe I left all of that blank...)

So to do a "restore", what would be the sequence of events, say, from a USB Thumbdrive?

I may be thinking back to my Windows days. I believe it *was* an issue with Windows...

Superduper makes clones also, but it does not copy over the Recovery HD partition, hence my preference for CCC.

If you use CCC to clone to a drive (USB or otherwise) and the clone is encrypted, nobody is going to be able to see your user name or any passwords etc. If the clone is not encrypted, it is very easy for a thief to reset your admin password and have access to everything on the clone.

To restore from an encrypted CCC clone you would plug in the USB drive and option key boot then pick the USB drive as the boot source. You would then be prompted for your password to unlock the encrypted volume then you could use the machine normally running off the USB drive. Assuming here you are doing this because your Hard drive died, you would just install the new drive then boot to the USB key and use CCC to clone everything back from the USB key to the new (blank) hard drive... and you would be back in business.

Let's back up a bit here though.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by having a clone? How are you planning on backing up your data that is on the laptop drive and will you have that backup with you?

Is your concern that you will be on the road and your drive will die? Try and explain what your concern is and maybe we can make some suggestions.

 

[doubledee]

I've heard there's a bookstore in Winterhaven, CA where the owner is a naturist, so surfing naked would fit right in. In my experience, public libraries are more conventional.

HAH!!!!!!!!!


Debbie

 

[doubledee]

Superduper makes clones also, but it does not copy over the Recovery HD partition, hence my preference for CCC.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

It sounds like MacBooks have a "Main Partition" - plus an extra "Recovery Partition" - on the HDD, and maybe you are saying that CCC makes a clone of *both* - thus a true HDD "clone" - whereas Super-Duper only clones the "Main Partition". Just my guess?!

If you use CCC to clone to a drive (USB or otherwise) and the clone is encrypted, nobody is going to be able to see your user name or any passwords etc. If the clone is not encrypted, it is very easy for a thief to reset your admin password and have access to everything on the clone.

Well, I wouldn't have an Personal Data on the HDD at that point, since I would be cloning the "virgin" factory HDD. And I would try my best to not have any personal information on it like Name, Address, etc, although I'm not sure how Mountain Lion works?!

But the idea that someone could get a hold of my Username/Password and/or Admin Username/Password would be bad, mainly because if they had that, then they could have access to my actual cMBP. (Of course the workaround to this is to have a "dummy" Password for the clone version...)

So you have my curiosity now!!

How would they go about getting your Admin Username/Password off of an unencrypted clone of my HDD??

To restore from an encrypted CCC clone you would plug in the USB drive and option key boot then pick the USB drive as the boot source. You would then be prompted for your password to unlock the encrypted volume then you could use the machine normally running off the USB drive. Assuming here you are doing this because your Hard drive died, you would just install the new drive then boot to the USB key and use CCC to clone everything back from the USB key to the new (blank) hard drive... and you would be back in business.

If I had the Cloned USB drive encrypted, is it fair to assume that CCC would install a DE-crypted clone on the "Target HDD"?? (I would want to use FileVault2 for the encryption, and not something from CCC...)

Let's back up a bit here though.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by having a clone?

In the past, I relied on my Snow Leopard Recovery DVD. (And trust me, I needed it at least twice after OS-X got screwed up just like my old Windows PC's did...)

Moving forward, I won't be able to do that.

So when I buy and get my 13" cMBP, I want a "virgin" copy of Mountain Lion - either in the form of a "Recovery File" OR a complete "Cloned Copy" of Mountain Lion already installed. (Sorta like Zipped versions vs. Unzipped version?!)

After that, I'm going to install a Seagate 750GB 7200rpm HDD into my new 13" cMBp, so, I'll need a way to get Mountain Lion and any apps onto my cMBP and it's new HDD.

Since I will have the "factory" HDD that I am replacing, I guess THAT could be my "Cloned Recovery HDD"?!

However, since I am 2,000 miles from home, won't be returning this year, and all of my stuff is usually in my car - through 3 feet of snow and freezing temps to 100 degree days in the summer and humidity at other times - I am thinking something more "solid state" might be nice for a "Recovery Disk"?! (And even if I was located in San Diego - sunny and 70 most of the year - I'd rather accidentally drop a USB drive with Mountain Lion on it versus a conventional HDD!!)

Follow me so far?


*************
Side Note: No regrets switching to Macs in 2009, but the ride hasn't been perfect like I envisioned. I have had more "Rainbow Screens of Death" on this MacBook than I ever had "Blue Screens of Death" on my old PC. And from my experience, Leopard and Snow Leopard often behave like PC's with "corrupt Windows Registries"... As such, I have rebuilt this current MacBook 3 times in the 5 years I have owned it. Just like my old PC's, I installed a new HDD, and rebuilt things from scratch so all of the strange behavior disappeared. (I know Mac Zealots will deny this can happen, but "in the real world" it *does* happen!!)

As such, I need a reliable way to rebuild my machine FROM SCRATCH, so that is what this and my other thread are all about!!
***************

How are you planning on backing up your data that is on the laptop drive and will you have that backup with you?

Currently I "back-up" my MacBook maybe once a week using Time Machine on an external 3.5" - yes it's true! - HDD and my sexy IcyDock external enclosure.

(Yeah, I know, all the "wonderboys" out there back up every hour, but based on my life situation, this is the safest way I can do things. And I back up enough so that I shouldn't lose anything that I couldn't live without, but like everything, life is somewhat of a gamble.)

I've actually never done a "RESTORE" before, so I hope like hell this Time Machine stuff actually works?!

(Ironically, I prefer doing Manual Backups - and that is all I did in the Windows world. If I can ever get my Mac's HDD cleaned up now that I have some more space, I might resume doing that, as it is safer in many ways...)


As far as transferring my data off this MacBook to my new MBP, I'm not sure.

I'll probably break down and finally pay $50 for Path Finder, and manually go through all of my messy FIles and Directories and CUT AND PASTE them one by one to a more organized structure on my new cMBP!!

Is your concern that you will be on the road and your drive will die? Try and explain what your concern is and maybe we can make some suggestions.

I think I answered this above.

As a summary, I mainly just want a new-fangled version of a "Recovery DVD" so I can build/rebuild my cMBP as much as I want.

When any system I've had - PC or Mac - starts acting really weird, I just rebuild them from scratch. (I've never seen a "recover" that works - at least not for Windows.)

I have been lucky in that I have never had to do a Time Machine Restore because I lost data, although that day may come.

I try to keep up with Backups, and keep an eye out for indications that my HDD may be going out, and at any indication of that - or after maybe 2-3 years - I install a new HDD to stay ahead of things. (BTW, before installing a new HDD, I "burn it in" which means writing data onto it at least twice until it is full. Usually Streaming Audio or copying Audacity Files to see if it pukes. If I can lay - say 750 GB - data twice with no issues, I assume the HDD won't die on me in the first few weeks?!)

It's getting late. If I haven't answered your questions fully, just let me know!

Thanks for your desire to learn more about my usage and trying to help!!

Sincerely,


Debbie

 

[Weaselboy]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

It sounds like MacBooks have a "Main Partition" - plus an extra "Recovery Partition" - on the HDD, and maybe you are saying that CCC makes a clone of *both* - thus a true HDD "clone" - whereas Super-Duper only clones the "Main Partition". Just my guess?!

Exactly.

But the idea that someone could get a hold of my Username/Password and/or Admin Username/Password would be bad, mainly because if they had that, then they could have access to my actual cMBP. (Of course the workaround to this is to have a "dummy" Password for the clone version...)

So you have my curiosity now!!

How would they go about getting your Admin Username/Password off of an unencrypted clone of my HDD??

If someone stole your unencrypted clone they would not get your password, but they can easily reset the password on your login to whatever they want. All they do is boot off the clone then follow this Apple support article to reset the password. Then they login with your user name and the password they set and they would have access to any info in your account that was on the clone.

If I had the Cloned USB drive encrypted, is it fair to assume that CCC would install a DE-crypted clone on the "Target HDD"?? (I would want to use FileVault2 for the encryption, and not something from CCC...)

Yes. You would option key boot to the encrypted clone and enter your PW. Then use CCC to clone the data to a new drive (which would not be encrypted at this point). Then after the data is on the new drive you would turn FV2 on again to encrypt the new drive.

In the past, I relied on my Snow Leopard Recovery DVD. (And trust me, I needed it at least twice after OS-X got screwed up just like my old Windows PC's did...)

Moving forward, I won't be able to do that.

So when I buy and get my 13" cMBP, I want a "virgin" copy of Mountain Lion - either in the form of a "Recovery File" OR a complete "Cloned Copy" of Mountain Lion already installed. (Sorta like Zipped versions vs. Unzipped version?!)

Okay... gotcha. IMO there is not point in making a "clone" if you are not going to have your account and data/apps on it. Sounds like the best thing for you would be a stand alone OS installer on a USB key. Use the steps in my earlier post here to make the USB key installer. (see below for another option).

After that, I'm going to install a Seagate 750GB 7200rpm HDD into my new 13" cMBp, so, I'll need a way to get Mountain Lion and any apps onto my cMBP and it's new HDD.

Since I will have the "factory" HDD that I am replacing, I guess THAT could be my "Cloned Recovery HDD"?!

Yep, that would work fine also.

As such, I need a reliable way to rebuild my machine FROM SCRATCH, so that is what this and my other thread are all about!!

Currently I "back-up" my MacBook maybe once a week using Time Machine on an external 3.5" - yes it's true! - HDD and my sexy IcyDock external enclosure.

I've actually never done a "RESTORE" before, so I hope like hell this Time Machine stuff actually works?!

Let me offer another method and you are already using it, but just don't realize all the features. Since Lion 10.7.2, a Time Machine backup to a external USB disk like you are using creates a bootable backup. So with your new machine on Mt. Lion and a full backup with Time Machine, you have everything you need to fully restore to a new hard drive if you have to.

So let's say your Macbook's hard drive dies. You pop in a new drive then option key boot to the Time Machine drive. This will bring up a recovery screen. From that screen you run Disk Util and format the new, blank drive to Mac OS Extended format... then click restore. This will copy the OS and all apps and your account and data onto the new drive. Again, this is done only using the TM backup and no OS installer of any kind is needed.

So you see, if you have a TM backup with you on the road, you don't really need the OS installer or any clone at all... TM will do it for you. Also, you can encrypt your TM backup.

==

Usually when see people on here talking about "clones" with CCC, the idea is that you setup your machine like you want with your account and all data and apps etc, then regularly clone it to another drive. The idea is that can be used to clone the info back to a new drive and can also be used to actually run the machine. You can plug in the external clone drive and option key boot to it and use the machine just like you were before (albeit slower).

So both a CCC clone and Time Machine can be used to fully restore the OS and all data to a new, blank drive. The key difference is a full CCC clone can be used to actually operate the computer and a TM backup cannot.

If you don't want to make a full clone with all you data and account on there, there is not point in using CCC or cloning at all. Just take your TM external disk with you and use that to recover from a drive failure.

Mountain Lion also supports two external backup drives in Time Machine. So you can plug one in after the other and TM will alternate between them. Both will be fully capable of the recovery I mentioned. This would be good redundancy for you if that is a concern.

 

[Fishrrman]

You ask many questions.

Rather than try to answer them in order, let me say this:
A bootable external clone drive could become the most useful piece of hardware you own, in a "moment of extreme need".

You said that you are going to be doing a lot of traveling. Imagine being far away from home, and you open the computer, and find that its…. frozen, no longer working. So you restart, and….
….it won't boot.
What do you do next?
WITHOUT a clone, you might have to go to internet recovery (assuming you can get _on_ the net), completely rebuild the OS.
WITH a clone, you just connect it and power-on, and chances are you can get booted right up again (assuming the hard drive was the problem).
Even if your internal hard drive is totally gone -- you will STILL have a copy of it on the external clone. Just install a new internal drive, and "re-clone" the backup back to the internal. And it will be like it was before.

Also -- creating a clone will be one of the EASIEST TASKS (shouting intentional) that you've ever done with the Mac. There's really not much involved.

You DO need the right hardware, however. That includes:
- A good hard drive (DO NOT buy a Western Digital "green drive" for this)
- A good enclosure or docking station

You'll also need an app that handles this, there are two of them:
- CarbonCopyCloner (free use for 30 days from download)
or
- SuperDuper (can do complete clone free -- no time limitations)

My preference is for CCC, but SD will work as well.

For portability, you could use a 2.5" USB3 enclosure, and put either a 2.5" hard drive or SSD into it. What type of drive you use depends on your budget, and your storage requirements.

You should be able to get a decent enclosure for around $30. Search around for the drive that suits you.

Then use a screwdrive and put them together yourself.
You could buy a "pre-assembled" drive, but as a travelin' person, I think you'd be better off building the drive yourself, so if you ever have problems on the road, you can take it apart, too…

Final thoughts…
I've seen your discussions in other threads.
My observation is that you're "thinking too much".
Again, get an external drive and put a clone of the internal onto it.
This will save your behind on the road someday.
It's easy to do, just do it...

 

[doubledee]

If someone stole your unencrypted clone they would not get your password, but they can easily reset the password on your login to whatever they want. All they do is boot off the clone then follow this Apple support article to reset the password. Then they login with your user name and the password they set and they would have access to any info in your account that was on the clone.

Not too go too far off topic, but based on what I read, this is my take...

If someone has access to your Recovery Disk, and they boot off of it, they can reset *any* User Account including Admin Accounts with no challenge questions or barriers?!

Let me offer another method and you are already using it, but just don't realize all the features. Since Lion 10.7.2, a Time Machine backup to a external USB disk like you are using creates a bootable backup. So with your new machine on Mt. Lion and a full backup with Time Machine, you have everything you need to fully restore to a new hard drive if you have to.

Let me walk through this...

- I get my new cMBP.

- I turn it on and do the initial set-up, including creating at least one User Account.

- Next I insert a USB Drive - maybe 32GB - and use Mountain Lion's Time Machine to do a "backup" of my new machine's entire HDD. (There is probably some option like "Make a Bootable Image to USB Drive"?!)

- I shut down my new cMBP

- I install my new HDD

- I format the new HDD

- I insert the USB Drive

- I boot up using whatever keystrokes, and boot from the USB drive

- Time Machine gives me some prompts "Do a Full Restore from USB Drive?"

- I say "Sure"

- Time Machine takes what is on the USB drive and rebuilds my cMBP - with new HDD - so it is like it was in the factory one

- I reboot my cMBP, and wa-la, I have a new cMBP with a faster HDD ready to go!!


Loosely speaking, does that sound like the flow?

So you see, if you have a TM backup with you on the road, you don't really need the OS installer or any clone at all... TM will do it for you. Also, you can encrypt your TM backup.

Okay, but one key distinction here... (I'm sure to get push-back on this...)

I always want a copy of the Operating System to rebuild my machine.

This may be from my Windows days, and I'm sure it is debatable with both Windows and Mac people until the end of time, but unless I needed to in a pinch, if I had issues that required me to reinstall the Op Sys, I would NOT want to do a "restore". I would do what I always have done...

- Install a new HDD if needed

- Get a copy of the Op Sys.

- Install it

- Install any apps and configure things

Now I have a brand new, "virgin" copy of the Op Sys and Software

- THEN I transfer over all of my data

"Crazy!!!" I'm sure you are yelling.

Well, certainly in the Windows world, I always did that. (Anything less always ended up with a bigger mess than what I had before.)


I have a history of acquiring really bizarre computer issues that nobody can ever figure out.

When that happens, I find that starting from scratch almost always fixes things.

Why "restore" a copy of everything that likely had issues on it in the first place?

When you "clone" or "backup" a corrupt Windows Registry, or screwed up "p" files, or a Virus, guess what you have a copy of?? CRAP!!!!!

That is why I always rebuild things from scratch...


So, my point is, that while I use Time Machine to take a snap-shot of everything so I can do a "recovery" should I screw up my Data, I also want a copy of JUST THE OP SYS & APPS in case I need to rebuild my machine.

Follow me?

Again, I'm sure people think this is crazy, but I'm speaking from over 20 years of experience in what DOES and DOES NOT work in the real world. (Or at least in Debbie's world...)

Usually when see people on here talking about "clones" with CCC, the idea is that you setup your machine like you want with your account and all data and apps etc, then regularly clone it to another drive. The idea is that can be used to clone the info back to a new drive and can also be used to actually run the machine. You can plug in the external clone drive and option key boot to it and use the machine just like you were before (albeit slower).

So both a CCC clone and Time Machine can be used to fully restore the OS and all data to a new, blank drive. The key difference is a full CCC clone can be used to actually operate the computer and a TM backup cannot.

Let me repeat...

So if I bought CCC, and used it to "clone" my entire HDD onto an External HDD, then if my Internal HDD crashed, I could plug in the External HDD, reboot, and keep on working like nothing happened, right?

But if I used Time Machine to "clone" (??) my entire HDD onto an External HDD, then if my Internal HDD crashed, I would have to install a new Internal HDD, and then I could restore everything from the External HDD and copy it to the new Internal HDD. And then I would need to boot up from the Restored Internal HDD to be back up and running, right?

So, CCC lets you work directly from the Recovery Disk, whereas Time Macine requires you to restore off of the Recovery Disk, but forces you to work off of your new Target Disk, right?

If you don't want to make a full clone with all you data and account on there, there is not point in using CCC or cloning at all. Just take your TM external disk with you and use that to recover from a drive failure.

With the extra stipulation that I will always keep a copy of *just* the Op Sys and Apps for the reasons mentioned above.

Mountain Lion also supports two external backup drives in Time Machine. So you can plug one in after the other and TM will alternate between them. Both will be fully capable of the recovery I mentioned. This would be good redundancy for you if that is a concern.

Okay, good to know.

Sincerely,


Debbie

 

[Weaselboy]

Not too go too far off topic, but based on what I read, this is my take...

If someone has access to your Recovery Disk, and they boot off of it, they can reset *any* User Account including Admin Accounts with no challenge questions or barriers?!

Exactly... assuming you have not encrypted the disk(s).

Let me walk through this...

- I get my new cMBP.

- I turn it on and do the initial set-up, including creating at least one User Account.

- Next I insert a USB Drive - maybe 32GB - and use Mountain Lion's Time Machine to do a "backup" of my new machine's entire HDD. (There is probably some option like "Make a Bootable Image to USB Drive"?!)

- I shut down my new cMBP

- I install my new HDD

- I format the new HDD

- I insert the USB Drive

- I boot up using whatever keystrokes, and boot from the USB drive

- Time Machine gives me some prompts "Do a Full Restore from USB Drive?"

- I say "Sure"

- Time Machine takes what is on the USB drive and rebuilds my cMBP - with new HDD - so it is like it was in the factory one

- I reboot my cMBP, and wa-la, I have a new cMBP with a faster HDD ready to go!!

Loosely speaking, does that sound like the flow?

That would do the trick.

Okay, but one key distinction here... (I'm sure to get push-back on this...)

I always want a copy of the Operating System to rebuild my machine.

Then you will want to get an 8GB USB key and make the OS installer like I mentioned earlier in addition to your TM backup.

So if I bought CCC, and used it to "clone" my entire HDD onto an External HDD, then if my Internal HDD crashed, I could plug in the External HDD, reboot, and keep on working like nothing happened, right?

But if I used Time Machine to "clone" (??) my entire HDD onto an External HDD, then if my Internal HDD crashed, I would have to install a new Internal HDD, and then I could restore everything from the External HDD and copy it to the new Internal HDD. And then I would need to boot up from the Restored Internal HDD to be back up and running, right?

So, CCC lets you work directly from the Recovery Disk, whereas Time Macine requires you to restore off of the Recovery Disk, but forces you to work off of your new Target Disk, right?

Exactly... that is the key distinction between the two.

 

[doubledee]

Not too go too far off topic, but based on what I read, this is my take...

If someone has access to your Recovery Disk, and they boot off of it, they can reset *any* User Account including Admin Accounts with no challenge questions or barriers?!

Exactly... assuming you have not encrypted the disk(s).

Why in God's name would Apple allow that?!

Then you will want to get an 8GB USB key and make the OS installer like I mentioned earlier in addition to your TM backup.

As I see it, using CCC to make a "clone" of the Factory HDD and then saving it to a USB drive so I had a Bootable USB Drive would do the trick, and avoid the need to do the whole download the Installer thing.

Thanks,


Debbie